have the Deftones (finally) sold out?

[CitizenSoul]

You want to know what I think? If Teamsleep was around during Around the Fur, naysayers would blame Mascara, Be Quiet and Drive (not the pre-Teamsleep version but the regular), and maybe even Damone on Team Sleep. Xerces isn't rooted in Team Sleep, its "rooted" in Frank having a wide hand in the song. Without Frank, Xerces wouldn't song like Xerces. HITE as Team Sleep influenced? (Roll eyes). The Code and Pink Cellphone, I'll totally give you naysayers the benefit of the doubt but I perfer the Code stay a part of the album since it was the Deftones and not Team Sleep. Pink Cellphone on the other hand is an AWESOME song but I do think it's a little out of place and is very Team Sleepish but I can't live with it.


In actuality, what some people are claiming about SNW in comparison to their previous work is what I think about the TeamSleep album in comparison to their demos so I do understand but as I said before, its all about change. Change is good, it just depends on whether its good or bad change.

[Rutje15]

How is Beware not ground breaking??? I have never heard a song beautiful like that before!

stupid topic.... saturday night wrist is a peace of art. You can hear they put a lot of work in it. And it came out beautifully.

And I don't expect a second SNW after this record. I'm expecting something completely differt. I hope everybody does.

AMEN

[Bergerac]

hahahhaha GODDAMN the people here are so quick to spit at the wall they're slipping on it themselves, and anyone would have to laugh at that.

So if this equation is right...does that mean my radiohead collection is pointless because it sounds like pink floyd?

Only, like most people here, I've had the album for more than one day. I've had ample time to judge it, and let it sink in. Thus far, it hasn't, no matter how many supposed altruisms you'd like to share. Again, because I'm not overly impressed, and because I have not approached the album with the inane predisposition that 'because it's Deftones, it's good', my opinion is irrelevant to anybody that feels the need to defend the album.

As for your comparison, Chino Moreno is in both bands at the same time, and has brought the influence of one band onto another's record. That's something I imagine not many people would've wanted to see happen, but have had to make do with. I find it hard to believe that you don't see the difference in the two situations, i.e. Radiohead being influenced by other people from years ago. Despite which, yes, I do find it rather lame that one band could sound so much like another, regardless of who it is. After all, everyone remembers the Deftones themselves having to break away from numerous categorisations, like 'Nu Metal', because other bands were striving to sound like them. So how is this any different, or any easier to accept?

Whilst I would consider it pointless based on the fact that Radiohead sound audibly like Pink Floyd, I wouldn't get that far, having already ruled the collection pointless based on the fact that I care for neither Radiohead or Pink Floyd. Regardless, I believe a band should suppress as much influence as possible so that they may find their own way. Deftones were doing that very well thus far.

So, Saturday Night Wrist, sounding half like Team Sleep and half like The Cure, is a disappointment. After all, none of their previous albums suffered from the same disposition, did they? They sounded like themselves. It's one of the benefits of being at the cutting edge, which they aren't with this album. No amount of prominent synth lines are going to change that.

Tracks like the interlude are so blatantly influenced by other bands, that you cannot possibly say that they have anything to do with the sound that the Deftones had used thus far, or that said sound benefits from the new use of influences, when that sound had no audible outside influence before. To ignore the fact that Xerces and others have Team Sleep influence can mean only one of three things: you like the TS influence and have no quarrel, you're stupid, or you're deaf. Either way, it is there, and yes, it is going to be a problem to anybody that wants the Deftones to progress their own sound, which they'd been doing for the first four albums.

Ultimately, if I listen to the record and get a gut reaction either way, it's for a good reason. Whether you like it or you don't, you're right either way. In this instance, the outside influence is acceptable to you, and it isn't to me. Neither of us are wrong, but I feel the need to exaplin why I'm not liking the record, and I haven't gone so far as to say anybody was wrong for, conversely, liking it. What I do think, though, is that some people are ignoring that influence, the Team Sleep sound for example, but it is blatantly there. To me though, that's still just the Team Sleep sound, and it doesn't further the Deftones' own music. It's just there 'cause Chino wanted to play with that sound some more.

[kckondor]

I like it.

That's all that matters to me, but you are right, you don't have to

[Inadia]

But that is the whole point of art.  Nothing is really "new", or someone's "own".  The same three categories of stories have been told from the beginning of time, and while some storytellers place their own slant on them, they are ultimately subordinate to those structures.  There are a great deal of well known musical artists out there as well as an even greater amount of unknowns.  It is almost impossible to say that a sound belongs to anyone.  If that is the case I could accuse 85 percent of metal being a blatant rip off of Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath.

Now to the point.  Because one person is part of one project does not mean that said person must restrict their ideas to one canvas.  Chino likes softer music, electronics in addition to the more aggressive material, The Deftones didn't acquire Frank for simply standing in the back,  playing sappy electronic loops over chugging metallic riffs.  He's there to contribute to the body of work, and why shouldn't he be able to stake out a larger portion of the musical pie after servicing this band since the days of pre-white pony?  If the album was more Stef driven, more guitar based, then most people would probably be content and not even venture to say that Stef is hogging way too much of the limelight.  But the moment he takes a back seat many of the uninspired criticisms begin to float to the surface.

The beauty of art, whether it be musical, performance, cinema, visual, are the many avenues for amalgamation, contribution, and exploration.  More often than not, that is what creates the greatest pieces that withstand the test of time.  Just because someone wrote the original tragedy doesn't mean that it is deplorable for some other bloke to write something in a similar vein.  If that were the case the world would only have one museum, one that would never fill, due to the inability for anyone to be guided by past entries.

And to completely answer your entire dissertation with one sentence: Art is influence.  If you are not influenced by anything, if you don't feel a drive inside of you, then what is the point if creating anything at all?  Many of the finest journeys ever embarked on came from some sort of external or internal influence.  Art is explorative and boundless and shouldn't have to be restricted to any set standards, not yours, certainly not mine.  The Deftones are artists and they will do what they please.  Abe said it best, many years ago, "I know it seems selfish, but we make albums for ourselves".  And that my mate, is the farthest thing from selling out.  We can choose to love it, or hate it, but that will never contort the passion and intention of the artists themselves.

P.S.

I personally find Saturday Night Wrist to be a compelling work of art.  I absolutely adore Abe Cunningham and Chi Cheng.  I hope this isn't the final entry in the bands storied twelve year life span.

[w3b]

I dont regret it cause now im not buying it cause it sucks so bad

[UrZ*]

ffs...pointless

deftones kick ass, who cares about all this blatant bullshit

[DeathByPlane00]

Hell no, the tones have not sold out. Their not making music for me or you. Their making music for themselves, first and foremost, they dont give a shit what anyone thinks about their music but themselves. That is far from selling out. Plus chino admited that if he has to he will get a job.

[Far away]

SNW and ST , were both more straight forward albums. but far from selling out. they are just catchier.


i think SNW is a step in the right direction

i agree with you..
its like, they're trying different stuff from what they did in their previous records.. so..
i'm ok with it. I did not listen to SNW since i'm waiting the package from amazon. But i was really excited about the 3 songs @ their myspace page.

[these hopes fall]

your opinion on not enjoying or feeling SNW didn't live up to it's potential has nothing to do with the idea of the Deftones "selling out" which in itself is such a overused term that is thrown around so much.  You don't see them playing on a Pepsi Blue commercial, so no they haven't sold out and probably never will, they really have stayed true over the years and kudos to them because that is very hard to do these days, take a look around.

[Swords]

your opinion on not enjoying or feeling SNW didn't live up to it's potential has nothing to do with the idea of the Deftones "selling out" which in itself is such a overused term that is thrown around so much.  You don't see them playing on a Pepsi Blue commercial, so no they haven't sold out and probably never will, they really have stayed true over the years and kudos to them because that is very hard to do these days, take a look around.

word.

[Bergerac]

But that is the whole point of art.  Nothing is really "new", or someone's "own".  The same three categories of stories have been told from the beginning of time, and while some storytellers place their own slant on them, they are ultimately subordinate to those structures.  There are a great deal of well known musical artists out there as well as an even greater amount of unknowns.  It is almost impossible to say that a sound belongs to anyone.  If that is the case I could accuse 85 percent of metal being a blatant rip off of Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath.

Now to the point.  Because one person is part of one project does not mean that said person must restrict their ideas to one canvas.  Chino likes softer music, electronics in addition to the more aggressive material, The Deftones didn't acquire Frank for simply standing in the back,  playing sappy electronic loops over chugging metallic riffs.  He's there to contribute to the body of work, and why shouldn't he be able to stake out a larger portion of the musical pie after servicing this band since the days of pre-white pony?  If the album was more Stef driven, more guitar based, then most people would probably be content and not even venture to say that Stef is hogging way too much of the limelight.  But the moment he takes a back seat many of the uninspired criticisms begin to float to the surface.

The beauty of art, whether it be musical, performance, cinema, visual, are the many avenues for amalgamation, contribution, and exploration.  More often than not, that is what creates the greatest pieces that withstand the test of time.  Just because someone wrote the original tragedy doesn't mean that it is deplorable for some other bloke to write something in a similar vein.  If that were the case the world would only have one museum, one that would never fill, due to the inability for anyone to be guided by past entries.

And to completely answer your entire dissertation with one sentence: Art is influence.  If you are not influenced by anything, if you don't feel a drive inside of you, then what is the point if creating anything at all?  Many of the finest journeys ever embarked on came from some sort of external or internal influence.  Art is explorative and boundless and shouldn't have to be restricted to any set standards, not yours, certainly not mine.  The Deftones are artists and they will do what they please.  Abe said it best, many years ago, "I know it seems selfish, but we make albums for ourselves".  And that my mate, is the farthest thing from selling out.  We can choose to love it, or hate it, but that will never contort the passion and intention of the artists themselves.

When did I say that 'influence' was bad? I said that sounding like other bands is bad. Chino was perfectly capable of bringing out the softer side on White Pony and Deftones [excluding Teenager - seeing as it's technically Team Sleep], and yet the rest of those albums didn't end up sounding like anybody else. I don't know why you are arguing the 'selling out' point with me, because I'm not the thread starter.

To be honest, you're right, I would've likely been more content with a Stef-written record. Quite simply because it would've had Deftones sounding guitar lines throughout, and if he was writing the music, then the Team Sleep stuff wouldn't be quite so prevalent.

Team Sleep are Team Sleep. As a Deftones fan, I kind of expect Team Sleep stuff to remain within it's own territory. When I buy a Deftones record, I want it to be a Deftones record. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. If Chino wants to do Team Sleep stuff, he can do it in Team Sleep.

That's why Team Sleep aren't the Deftones.

[one weak]

i just think it's funny becuase the band as a whole, not just chino, seems to love this album a lot. they probably don't give two shits if it's team sleep influenced in a lot of ways.

[Jizzlobber]

i dont buy into the whole selling out thing. i dont believe in it, writing music is not all about thinking of how people will react or can they sell more albums by writing music that is catchy and will make people buy more of it. theres no way any of the Deftones members are like that i dont think, thats bullshit

[tomcattswoman]

I don't think they are selling out I think they are moving with the times.  They can't make White Pony over and over.  They have to do something different.  Shit, they have been around almost 20 years thats longer than most bands they haven't sold out like the one hit wonder bands.  They have to keep going!!  I think that the new album is BADASS!!!

[DFTNSHXGRM]

I only hear two songs on the album that sound kind of like team sleep.. and thats "U,U,D,D,L,R,L,R,A,B,Select,Start" and "Xerces". The instrumental they wrote as a band, and they felt that it captured the moments and the atmostphere when they were up north recording with Bob Ezrin. The rest of the album sounds nothing like team sleep.. I hear alot of Around the Fur mixed with White Pony on this one. It's a bad ass album! It's their best as far as, most well-thoughtout and put together compared to their others.

[nineteenpeoplesnames]

Why judge the album after only a short time. An album takes ages to finally capture the whole theme/idea/sound etc. Like when i go back to Adrenaline now, i hear something (or should i say focus on a particular part of a song) that really makes the album dig deeper into the way i listen to it and even gives it a different sound.

I listened to S/T again today and i listen to it in a totally different way after hearing SNW.

[Oldnewtype]

Ok just in case you haven't figured it out yet bergerac, anytime a member of a band, particularly a vocalist, leaves one band to do another then later returns to the first band, they are inevitably always going to bring those influences back with them. Thats what they've been doing for the past few years, and even though its time to move on its still in our nature to use what we've learned in the past to guide us in the future. Chino brought influences over from Team Sleep, of course, but mainly in just the vocals.

You know what, nevermind. Anyone that says Teenager is technically a Team Sleep song isn't even worth wasting time over. No one else here seems to lack taste.

[deftoner664]

Bands evolve... deal with it.. Their evolving in a good way.. I love it.. They will always have thier own sound

respect

[AZDEFTONESFAN]

Bands evolve... deal with it.. Their evolving in a good way.. I love it.. They will always have thier own sound

respect

+++++++++1