Koi No Yokan Mastering

[whiskeyandwine]

Let me start by saying that this is a criticism of  the CD Master and not the musical content.  I absolutely love KNY.  Wanted to start this thread to discuss the mastering of the CD  and the alternate master that is available from HD TRACKS.  The CD master has been compressed to the point of having very little dynamic range and I even notice quite a bit of brick walling and clipping in the guitars and lots of Abe's drumming.  There is a huge sacrifice of fidelity for volume which is a shame.  Now take a listen to the HD TRACKS 24bit/96hz download and it is like listening to a completely different album, Abe's drums sound much fuller and rounder with quite a bit more bass and punch.  Stef's guitar doesn't clip out and distort at the high and low ends and sounds much more complete.  There is quite a bit more seperation in the HD tracks mix, so Franks parts are easily distinguishable and don't compete of fall behind all of the other components like on the CD master.

I have included some audio rips from Audacity to show you just how brick walled the CD master is, and to show how much dynamic range the HD master has.

Notice that the CD master has the dynamic range compressed to the point of clipping along the edges, whereas the HD master doesn't approach the limits of CD signal processing.  Bottom line, the HD master makes the CD sound like garbage.  Now here is the million dollar question... Why are there two different masters?  I really believe that the HD TRACKS version is the original studio master, whereas the CD version has been fucked with by the label so it sounds 'louder' for radio airplay and shuffling MP3 players.  Does anybody have any thoughts or has anyone else heard the HD mix?

[jciraheta]

excuse me if it is a noob question but  where ican find the Hd tracks ?

[whiskeyandwine]

www.hdtracks.com, not sure if this other master has leaked yet

[Gee]

That's interesting. I'm waiting for the others to share their opinions. If you are right whiskey, then it's a shame.

[Slacker]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...damn, this just made my day!

for all of you fans, this is THE way to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

[whiskeyandwine]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

[Slacker]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.

but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.

as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that branch of itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.

in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in an hour!

[armogi]

this brickwalling sh*t is insane, I'm glad i didn't get the CD...
It is so upsetting to be forced to listen to music that way and it's unbearable with headphones, i don't know how these icrap people do it.
Now the question is which master will they use for the vinyl? hopefully the good one, i am waiting for it personally hoping it will be worth the buy.

[stuka]

I usually do not download 96khz/24bit album but i'll give this a try for once.
flac format is uploaded both on waffles and what.cd for those who has an account there.

[whiskeyandwine]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.

but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.

as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.

in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!

Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release.  So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision?  I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission.  For their sake I hope that is not the case.

[GrandeJano]

I cant find it on hdtracks anymore...

Could someone send me a pm if you know where to find it?

[Slacker]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.

but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.

as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.

in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!

Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release.  So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision?  I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission.  For their sake I hope that is not the case.

yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.

i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.

is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.

[whiskeyandwine]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.

but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.

as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.

in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!

Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release.  So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision?  I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission.  For their sake I hope that is not the case.

yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.

i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.

is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.

The compression of fidelity is not about fitting it on CD... You can convert down to 16 bit an still preserve the dynamic range.  The CD's were compressed to make them LOUDER, which sacrifices fidelity.  The differences in those Audacity graphs are not the difference between 16 and 24 bit, it shows that signal processing was applied to compress the dynamic range, thus altering the original recording and sacrificing the sound quality to make it a 'louder' album.

[Slacker]

holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!

thats freaking awesome.

im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!

for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.

you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....

Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?

i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.

but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.

as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.

in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!

Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release.  So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision?  I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission.  For their sake I hope that is not the case.

yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.

i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.

is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.

The compression of fidelity is not about fitting it on CD... You can convert down to 16 bit an still preserve the dynamic range.  The CD's were compressed to make them LOUDER, which sacrifices fidelity.  The differences in those Audacity graphs are not the difference between 16 and 24 bit, it shows that signal processing was applied to compress the dynamic range, thus altering the original recording and sacrificing the sound quality to make it a 'louder' album.

true, very true. i stand corrected.

though lets remember it wasnt the primordial objective to be achived. back in the 80's when cds and cd player were expensive, loudness war was not really raiging so...matching the highest peak was the standard...at list for the sake of analog recording.

in any case, in current times, the standard is exactly what you've described.

[scarywindow]

i'm VERY interested in hearing the difference.  i did obtain a FLAC copy around the time of the leak, but i don't think it was derived from the HDTRACKS version.  can someone shoot me a PM?  i'd be very grateful.

[DeftonesNZ]

I noticed the bass sounds flat sergio will come in but in sounds just like a normal guitar and it barely comes out the sub most the bass that comes out the sub is Abe's bass drum

[Slacker]

i'm VERY interested in hearing the difference.  i did obtain a FLAC copy around the time of the leak, but i don't think it was derived from the HDTRACKS version.  can someone shoot me a PM?  i'd be very grateful.

no that aint the hdtrack release. in fact the hdtracks release is over 1gb of size. [1,06 GB (1.148.303.176 bytes)]

[Teknoman]

I noticed the bass sounds flat sergio will come in but in sounds just like a normal guitar and it barely comes out the sub most the bass that comes out the sub is Abe's bass drum

Exactly that!... when i listened to swerve city for the first time i though my sub woofer was turned off or something because the bass guitar volume is really low on that track... i tried to hear sergio's bass by doing some EQ and adding filters and stuff but is barely audible.

You can hear the difference even in the previews, just listen to Abe's snare on Swerve City it has a different sound (or is just me?) https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649

[whiskeyandwine]

Sergio's bass sounds COMPLETELY different on the HD version of Swerve City.  There is so much separation and you can hear it dip much lower as it weaves between Abe's drumming.  And Stef's guitars are much more throatier and textured.  Romantic Dreams especially has much more guitar crunch.

[shoop]

Anyone care to shoot me a pm with this? Does it fit on a normal cd using say, nero? I have a big yamaha theater begging me for this. Mainly just curious to see how much of a difference I can notice. Thanks to anyone in advance.