Sharing Lungs - Deftones Online Community

Koi No Yokan Mastering

Started by whiskeyandwine, Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM

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aeroplume

Yes. There is a difference. I never said there wasnt. My point was that the vast majority of people don't
have Jesus ears.

samson simpson

someone make a meme
     

 
"I dont always listen to KOI NO YOKAN....
but when I do its in quality most people caNt configure .."

aeroplume


lithium

💩

samson simpson

thank you much  brother


Jesus2Chino

#105
I think the FLAC master sounds fantastic compared to the CD's master. I'm not saying the CD is awful, just that the lossless master is notably superior. Abe's drums shine now, and the album sounds more open and spacious, like it can finally breath. Everything on the CD feels a little claustrophobic and cramped.

Much respect,
-Matt
Much respect,
-Matt

punkflop01

possible to get a pm of a direct link? That russian website is messing with my mind

NYRexall


Ortegasm

Can I get a pm of the HD version, por favor?

Visitant

"I really can't help it.  It's either this or prison."

DeftonesNZ

I don't think anyone is pm-ing a link some guy already posted the site it's on earlier it's the rutracker one you have to setup an account first then just search Koi No Yokan and it's like the first one

Gaz

I got it from the russian site, and yes there is a huge difference, but that is listening to it on my home theater system, the drums are louder and Chino's vocals sound a lot more clear, plus the bass is BIG.

punkflop01

Damn I want to buy it but on the HDtracks site, they state that it is the exact same thing as the CD version...if you look in the FAQ section

Gaz

Quote from: punkflop01 on Nov 22, 2012, 11:53 AM
Damn I want to buy it but on the HDtracks site, they state that it is the exact same thing as the CD version...if you look in the FAQ section

Probably in relation to the tracklisting, trust me there is a difference in quality, if there wasn't then what would be the point in making it available?

Jesus2Chino

Yeah, I just used the Russian site--Google translate or use Chrome, and sign up. Haha, I was tripping out at first because I couldn't find a search feature before I signed up, but that's because it doesn't exist for non-members. It's definitely worth a download! I felt slightly guilty about not purchasing it, but I already bought the album twice, the knowledge of which allowed me to stifle my guilt long enough to finish the download, haha.

Much respect,
-Matt
Much respect,
-Matt

scatterbrain

That rutracker site is awesome.next best thing to the big double Ws.
im me and thats all ill ever be

Sunbath

First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.

Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.

Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.

Even if FLAC files are made of the CD you might be able to tell the difference if your soundcards D-A converters are more high end than your CD-players D-A converters. Then again you need high end speakers for this.

For the most part I would say it's just placebo =)

PS I don't really understand listening stereo material in a surround system. Sure it will sound different and somewhat "advanced" but it's not sounding like it's supposed to by a person who mixed it in only two channels; left and right.

ominousnimbus

Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 23, 2012, 05:46 AM
First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.

Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.

Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.
There is no doubt that the masters are significantly different. Just look at the waveforms.

I'm not saying that the HDTracks version is light years better, but it's certainly less compressed and it doesn't clip. Obviously, as can be seen in the waveforms, the HD master is going to be a lot quieter overall. That makes it hard to do a direct comparison, because you almost need to turn your volume knob up a few notches for the HDTracks files to make it fair.

Too many people are wandering into this thread without listening to the new files and assume the only difference is that the HDTracks is available in 24/96. Neither I nor anyone else thinks that 24/96 is going to make a big difference over 16/44, all else being equal. It's a different master, and even a 192kbps MP3 copy of it would sound better than the CD.

Sunbath

Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 23, 2012, 07:38 AM
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 23, 2012, 05:46 AM
First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.

Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.

Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.
There is no doubt that the masters are significantly different. Just look at the waveforms.

I'm not saying that the HDTracks version is light years better, but it's certainly less compressed and it doesn't clip. Obviously, as can be seen in the waveforms, the HD master is going to be a lot quieter overall. That makes it hard to do a direct comparison, because you almost need to turn your volume knob up a few notches for the HDTracks files to make it fair.

Too many people are wandering into this thread without listening to the new files and assume the only difference is that the HDTracks is available in 24/96. Neither I nor anyone else thinks that 24/96 is going to make a big difference over 16/44, all else being equal. It's a different master, and even a 192kbps MP3 copy of it would sound better than the CD.

You are right: waveforms are different and it seems there is a slight compression in 16-bit version.

Did my own little testing tho.. Results are interesting!  :D

- Bought the HDTracks 24-bit version.
- Imported (lossless) swerve city, entombed and graphic nature off my Koi No Yokan CD.
- Loaded them up in Ableton (setted up sample rate in 96k)
- Lowered 16-bit versions about 5db to get them on the same "audible volume level" with 24-bit versions to do a A/B comparising.

Listened the versions with Beyerdynamic DT-990 headphones plugged into Motu Traveler soundcard (with sample rate setted up in 96k).
What I gathered is this: When you listen to the versions in lower volume level (from the soundcard) let's say around -35 to -30db you CAN actually head the difference. It's very subtle. And it's only at the very high end of the material. Meaning cymbals, crashes etc. Didn't notice anything in guitars, vocals or the stereo imaging. There might be (and I assume there is) also difference in lower frequencies but for that I would need a subwoofer to really analyze it. As soon as I raised the volume from the soundcard the differences between the versions started to even out and when I reached in about -15db to -10db (above that it would start to hurt ears) there was practicaly no difference at all.

I also made my own 16-bit / 44K coversion from the 24-bit / 96K FLAC file and compared it to a (the 5db lowered) CD rip. There was a very very subtle difference only on a very low volume level (-40db where you can barely hear the music)

I also listened the versions with my about Senheisers CX300II plugs plugged straight into MacBook Pro with Ableton still setted up to 96k sample rate: There is no difference at all no matter the volume level I listened them. Ofcourse there would be audible VOLUME level difference if I'd raise 16-bit versions back to 0db.

I'm not a professional mastering engineer (but I know a bit about it.. and a bit more about recording and mixing) so I don't actually know what they do to a 24-bit / 96K (assuming this is the original recording format) file to convert it to CD-quality in mastering. I just simply exported the FLAC file as 16-bit / 44K. Maybe they compress it a bit also on the way. Maybe it actually is a different master in that sense.

This is for sure: 24-bit got wider dynamic range (and with 96K there is also "more room" for higher and lower frequencies) than 16-bit and it's audible with the proper equipment.

Apart from all that techtalk this I also know for sure: I fucking love Koi No Yokan with my Senheisers plugged into my iPod equally as much as I love it with those Beyerdynamics plugged into a Motu  :)

Hesperian Death-Horse!

Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.