Gore

[Seven]

I will concede that Linkin Park is the exception to the rule here. The primary reason for their continued success is that they've grown and evolved their sound over time, much like Deftones has.

Well, this is not a LP forum but that evolution of Linkin Park was good until the release of "Heavy". Have you listened to that, and every facebook post of them is filled with bad opinions about it, shitting on it.

· About the lyrics, sometimes I don't know if I care about them; if the song in terms of sound is engaging, the lyrics are not my first concern. And that's maybe because english is not my first language so I can't sense the cringe at first. That doesn't mean I can't, because, actually, it happened with the beginning of (L)MIRL; I get the same feeling with the first words from the new Linkin Park song.

It's evolution of sound! It's a normal feeling! I've been patiently waiting.. With time, just wait, maybe the song will grow on you.

[patrick]

I just have to say, Linkin Park is terrible.  Deftones kill Korn.  Korn has always been ok but have one sound.  The fact that Korn has more fans is an argument against them in my opinion.  Who has more fans Korn or Taylor swift?  Answer: Taylor swift.  So by that logic.....

[guarnoplo]

I will concede that Linkin Park is the exception to the rule here. The primary reason for their continued success is that they've grown and evolved their sound over time, much like Deftones has.

Well, this is not a LP forum but that evolution of Linkin Park was good until the release of "Heavy". Have you listened to that, and every facebook post of them is filled with bad opinions about it, shitting on it.

· About the lyrics, sometimes I don't know if I care about them; if the song in terms of sound is engaging, the lyrics are not my first concern. And that's maybe because english is not my first language so I can't sense the cringe at first. That doesn't mean I can't, because, actually, it happened with the beginning of (L)MIRL; I get the same feeling with the first words from the new Linkin Park song.

It's evolution of sound! It's a normal feeling! I've been patiently waiting.. With time, just wait, maybe the song will grow on you.

I can tell you're one of those who comment there. Who use words like evolution and grower. -a capa y espada- smh

https://www.facebook.com/linkinpark/posts/10154962611326788?comment_id=10154962628716788&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

[Seven]

I just have to say, Linkin Park is terrible.  Deftones kill Korn.  Korn has always been ok but have one sound.  The fact that Korn has more fans is an argument against them in my opinion.  Who has more fans Korn or Taylor swift?  Answer: Taylor swift.  So by that logic.....

Linkin Park is amazing! Korn kill deftones everyday! Now by logic, U are in a deftones page. It's normal, opinions around here in defense of deftones.

[guarnoplo]

nobody kills nobody. every band stands for itself

[illthrowROCKS@U]

@illthrowROCKS@U Dude shut up! Now Linkin Park is the exception to the rule here hahahaha .

You seem to imply that I've backtracked on my words here. Linkin Park was never anything but the exception to the rule to me. If you read my prior comments carefully, you'll notice that I never disparaged Linkin Park. Not even once. But... yeah... "dude shut up."

Yes korn are more talented and they have more fans !

Completely irrelevant. First you make a value judgement, then you suggest that "more fans" somehow makes them "better." You know who else has more fans than any of these people? Shitty pop stars like Taylor Swift and casual radio rockers like Nickleback.

You are a moron!

I find it interesting that all you're able to muster are personal attacks and an argument that essentially equates to "they has more fans, iz betr." I can see, based simply on your way of writing, your way of thinking, and your method of logic, that your mentality fits right in with your musical taste. Much like your musical taste, your behavior is clearly immature in an attempt to cover a complete lack of actual substance.

Words from Chino '"Not that I cared about that, but what did hurt me was - yes, we are successful, but the success is like a whole other level with a band like [Bizkit]. Where with 'White Pony' - which is our most successful record - we barely sold a million records, Limp Bizkit sold about 7 million records.

"So it's success on another level, where those dudes don't need to work for the rest of their lives and make that much fucking money. And us, we're still hustling to do it. It's a whole different level of things. So a part of me wanted to just be mad about it, but at the end of the day, it is what it is."

You've already quoted him here. I'm not sure what the intent is. He's jealous because Korn and LB had better marketing schemes and hit it big on 1 or 2 records, which then garnered them enough funds to live comfortably the rest of their lives. Congratulations to them? Their success, however large, was to be short lived. Deftones have fought tooth and nail for every bit of what they've earned. They've eschewed the trendy and popular, and blasted themselves out of their comfort zone on every single album release. Korn and LB produced the same album with the same sound a few times and got big when that sound was popular.

Deftones have the staying power, and CONTINUE their success. Korn and LB no longer sell records at the level Deftones does. If you'd prefer an analogy, you could see Korn and LB as the Hare, and Deftones as the Tortoise. History has shown that Deftones is by far the more popular and successful band when compared to either LB or Korn, when you consider the entire length of their careers and not just cherry picked individual successes. This can be objectively measured, and I can't imagine it possible to argue against.

Slipknot?

Slipknot is fine and dandy to me. I think they're another one-note band, but some of their music I do greatly enjoy.

[The Prodigy]

You said:

If anything, history has venerated Deftones. All those other bands that have been mentioned here have fallen wayyy off, and become literal jokes in the music industry.

Man, why you Gatta lie through your teeth...

Korn and LB produced the same album with the same sound a few times and got big when that sound was popular. False

Just look at their influence on the industry in general. Look at the number of more modern bands who consider them a direct influence. Korn have more fans! And yes you are a fangirl shut up!
Dude The Best Selling Metal Albums of All Time:
Linkin Park – Hybrid Theory
10 times platinum

Limp Bizkit – Significant Other
7 x platinum

Limp Bizkit – Chocolate Starfish and the Hotdog Flavored Water
6 x platinum

Korn – Follow the Leader
5 x platinum

Linkin Park – Meteora
4 x platinum

Korn – Issues
3 x platinum


Papa Roach – Infest
3 x platinum

Deftones its not even in the same league! Said by chino himself too!

[patrick]

That bizkit starfish shit sandwich album is well...shit. 

[Inkblades]

I just have to say, Linkin Park is terrible.  Deftones kill Korn.  Korn has always been ok but have one sound.  The fact that Korn has more fans is an argument against them in my opinion.  Who has more fans Korn or Taylor swift?  Answer: Taylor swift.  So by that logic.....

Linkin Park is amazing! Korn kill deftones everyday! Now by logic, U are in a deftones page. It's normal, opinions around here in defense of deftones.

Linkin Park is amazing...if you find a whiny bitch with a grating voice singing lyrics taken from the diary of a 12 year old goth girl over the most generic powder chords imaginable amazing.

In describing Chester Bennington, I also just basically described Jonathan Davis. Neither of which will ever be able to sing, scream or write lyrics like Chino Moreno. Neither which will ever front a band that will make albums as good as White Pony or Around the Fur. Not in a million fucking years.

But keep hanging onto the "These bands have sold more" argument like anyone here actually gives a shit. Deftones are actually respected as artists. And, by the way, douchebag Durst and Chester Bennington worship at the feet of Deftones. Why do you think fratboy Fred always wore a White Pony shirt? You never saw Chino rocking Limp Bizkit shirts, did you?

[The Prodigy]

I can say the exact same things about you or chino. Whiny bitch, the numbers on the boards, by a long shot. Korn and Linkin park are respected only attention whores say shit about them!

[illthrowROCKS@U]

You said:

If anything, history has venerated Deftones. All those other bands that have been mentioned here have fallen wayyy off, and become literal jokes in the music industry.

Man, why you Gatta lie through your teeth...

How is this a lie? Can you provide any evidence for your claim? Because I can... How well did those 2011 and 2005 LB albums do, huh? What about the last 3 Korn albums? How to they stack up against the Deftones albums of the same time period? Are you really going to deny that LB is a joke in the music industry? Do you ever watch TV or listen to the radio? Because all I ever hear in pop culture today is that they're the biggest joke of the 90s. I'm not exactly one to consider "pop culture" as the determiner of absolute truth, but if you're going to use "popularity" as a measure of success, then I'd say that's kind of important when assessing staying power and continued success... don't you think? I mean, this is only logical, and it's part of your argument. If you're going to argue that success = popularity and album sales, then why don't you widen the scope of your assessment? Why limit your assessment to one or two albums, and not the entire length of their careers. I'll tell you why, because if you actually went through the logical and rational progression to your argument, it would completely demolish your argument. But you seem to lack critical thinking skills, so I'm not confident that you'll recognize this obvious reality.

Korn and LB produced the same album with the same sound a few times and got big when that sound was popular. False

Just look at their influence on the industry in general. Look at the number of more modern bands who consider them a direct influence. Korn have more fans! And yes you are a fangirl shut up!

More baseless personal attacks. I'm beginning to think that you suffer from a severe mental illness due to your lack of very basic reading comprehension skills, and I feel kind of bad for picking apart your words.

Dude The Best Selling Metal Albums of All Time:
Linkin Park – Hybrid Theory
10 times platinum

Limp Bizkit – Significant Other
7 x platinum

Limp Bizkit – Chocolate Starfish and the Hotdog Flavored Water
6 x platinum

Korn – Follow the Leader
5 x platinum

Linkin Park – Meteora
4 x platinum

Korn – Issues
3 x platinum


Papa Roach – Infest
3 x platinum

Since you're going to bring all this up, why don't we look at the timeline of events, shall we? In 1995 Deftones essentially invent the "Nu Metal" sound on their album Adrenaline. A year later, Korn in part replicate that sound on their commercially successful album Life Is Peachy, but don't see ultimate commercial success until Follow the Leader in 1998. Limp Bizkit don't see success until 1999. By 2000, Deftones wouldn't even be considered "Nu Metal" anymore, with their release of White Pony.

You see, if you had an ounce of critical thinking skills, or any knowledge of music history, the bands that create movements always are looked upon with more value, from an historical perspective. In the moment, bands like LB capitalized on a sound someone else (including Deftones) invented. They didn't push any boundaries or do anything groundbreaking, they just came at the right time. Deftones, on the other hand, were actually before their time. By the time their partially-created subgenere became popular, they were already onto another one. You see the obvious difference, yes? You're able to put this clear and present evidence together, yes?

Deftones its not even in the same league! Said by chino himself too!

Again, your obvious lack of reading comprehension skills rears its ugly head. If you think Chino said this, you did not understand the quote that you yourself presented. He was jealous that other bands were successful from success he helped to invent. How did you miss this important aspect of the information that you yourself presented?

Here's the score. From an objective standpoint, and from a critical perspective, Deftones have been more successful when it comes to creating and inventing new art. The other bands you've mentioned have been excellent copycats with good marketing schemes. They were the pretty boys who made the money, while bands like Deftones laid the groundwork. From an historical perspective, this is the reality. From your shallow perspective, of simple market success, Deftones even win this argument when the length of their entire career is considered. LB and Korn fell off, did not grow and did not change, and do not enjoy market success anymore. So by your measurement, they are inferior to Deftones. One or two albums does not count, look at the careers.

I would say go learn basic reading comprehension and critical thinking skills, but these things are innate and not learned. I'm afraid you just simply lack them.

[BewareTheWater]

Except Korn HAVE grown and changed and made several experimental albums ( Untouchables, See You On The Other Side, Untitled, etc. )

[The Prodigy]

Hahahaha you are a jok3! After the work finished, I will light your ass on fire fucktard!

[illthrowROCKS@U]

Hahahaha you are a jok3! After the work finished, I will light your ass on fire fucktard!

"jok3" "fucktard"


This whole thing is an effort in futility..... I'm having a difficult time believing that you're even sincere. You seem like a caricature, like you're intentionally creating a persona and saying nonsensical and childish things to get people to argue with you. I think they call that "trolling."

[The Prodigy]

Nah. Here at work, i type fast stuff. After the work finished. Logical stuff.

[The Prodigy]

Yeah

Man, why you Gatta lie through your teeth...

How is this a lie? Can you provide any evidence for your claim? Because I can...

No you can't liar! Burn dumbfuck!

You can always trace back influences and styles to much earlier years. But the first band to ever be labeled nu-metal was Korn in 1994.  There was hip hop and rock fusion in the 80s and 90s with stuff like Anthrax, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and the Beastie Boys, but they actually tried... I actually love some of these bands... but when Korn and Limp Bizkit blew up with songs like Freak on a Leash and Nookie, it was seen as a revolution by many. I agree Deftones was one of the first but were very moderate about it and didn't become popular until they had already made two albums (Adrenaline and Around the Fur) and came out with White Pony. Limp Bizkit , they became honorary members of this new fraternity of misfits after Durst pressed his band's demo into Korn's hand when the latter band played Jacksonville.
They jumped on board at exactly the right time. The scene was slowly gaining traction: Korn released their debut album in October 1994; Deftones' debut, Adrenaline, followed exactly a year later. The whole thing gained further momentum when Sepultura released Roots in early 1996. The track Cutawayfeatured Korn's Jonathan Davis and DJ Lethal of the then-unknown Limp Bizkit. Korn is the eponymous debut studio album It was released in 1994, right after the band toured with Biohazard and House of Pain. Korn was well received by music critics. The band stormed the alternative scene virtually overnight, and is said to have established Nu-Metal.

Bands like Coal Chamber and Limp Bizkit were inspired by the album's rage, emphasising similar grooves and song structures, including some Hip Hop elements. Slipknot, Machine Head, and Sepultura were also inspired by the album. The album launched the career of record producer Ross Robinson, who later produced albums such as Three Dollar Bill, Yall by Limp Bizkit and Slipknot's first two albums.

A little more than a year after release, the album went Gold in the United States. The album spawned 4 singles; followed by "Need To", "Shoots and Ladders" and "Clown". The album has now sold over 10 million copies worldwide and was never before issued on vinyl.
KORN exploded the genre to new heights but again weren't mainstream until they added Limp Bizkit to their Family Values Tours and then both bands became very prevalent together. All those bands who had moderate success blew up.
"I know a lot of people hate Fred Durst, but I think he's really f*cking talented" ~Lars Ulrich
Now says Durst. "We weren't quite hip hop, we weren't quite metal. But we just didn't give a fuck, and we always tried to say that fairly blatantly. I think that was one of the things that became dislikeable about us."
"Korn has a much better vocalist who is somewhat intelligent. A lot of these bands get the right ingredients, the right formula, and—voilà—they have a metal band. A band like Godsmack is just a cross between Metallica and Alice in Chains, with a bit of Korn thrown in." ~Kirk Hammett
Year of release, Title, U.S.A. Peak, U.K. Peak, U.S.A. Shipments
1994 - Korn - #72 - none - 2.000.000 (2x Platinum)
1996 - Life Is Peachy - #3 - #32 - 2.000.000 (2x Platinum)
1998 - Follow the Leader - #1 - #5 - 5.000.000 (5x Platinum)
1999 - Issues - #1 - #37 - 3.000.000 (3x Platinum)
2002 - Untouchables - #2 - #4 - 1.000.000 (1x Platinum)
2003 - Take a Look in the Mirror - #9 - #53 - 1.000.000 (1x Platinum)
2004 - Greatest Hits, Volume 1 - #4 - #17 - 1.000.000 (1x Platinum)
2005 - See You on the Other Side - #3 - #5 - 2.000.000 (2x Platinum)
2007 - MTV Unplugged: Korn - #9 - #6 - 500.000 (Gold)
- Korn, "The Paradigm Shift" - No. 8 - "The Paradigm Shift" debuts at No. 8 this week, giving the band its 12th top 10 album.
Rock band Korn claims its lucky 13th top 10 album on the Billboard 200, as The Serenity of Suffering starts at No. 4

[BewareTheWater]

So wtf is your point, exactly ? Because I'm missing it.... I thought this was a discussion of why Deftones are , apparently, more successful than Korn and LB, when ( as already stated ) it's very fucking obvious that those bands have always been more successful than Deftones from a marketing standpoint and Korn continues to be successful. LB , on the other hand...

[The Prodigy]

To me, Chino sounds very immature, I can see it in the lyrics too. Example: Korn, Linkin Park, limpbizkit and Metallica weren't the only targets of his trash talking interview, unfortunately. it would terribly hypocritical to go on tour with bands that he clearly has no respect for. So yeah! Money!

[darkomilicic]

Man this argument is all about the He said, She said...Bullshit!

[Inkblades]

I can say the exact same things about you or chino. Whiny bitch, the numbers on the boards, by a long shot. Korn and Linkin park are respected only attention whores say shit about them!

Um, no? Every lyric Chester and "J Devil" (lol) have written has been on some "Life is so hard! I'm being super serious right now you guyz! I'm gonna go cut myself because I'm so numb you guyz!" bullshit. Chino has NEVER written lyrics like that...even in the mid-90's!

And Fred's arguably worse. Because when he wasn't writing "woe is me" lyrics, he was rapping corny shit like this in a goofy fucking voice:

"Welcome to da jungle, PUNK
Take a look around
It's Limp Bizkit fuckin' up yo town!
We download DA SHOCKWAVE
For all da ladies in da cave
So get ya groove on!"

We've reached peak cringe.

Now, that trite, embarrassing nonsense might appeal to moody teenagers like you who are so tormented inside that they have to troll message boards, but us adults wanna hear something with slightly more challenging and thought-out lyrics.

That being said, I will give the three of them props for certain things. Fred has a decent scream. Chester has an okay mid-range voice. Davis can hit some good high-notes. Too bad none of them can write lyrics for shit.

Chino, on the other hand, has the best scream out of the bunch, the best singing voice with the most range and can actually write lyrics that aren't retarded as fuck. He wins. Kthanxbai.