discuss!
You have got to be kidding.... Possibly the stupidest question I've ever bared witness too on this forum.
On that note: No.
Oh boy
no.
NO
no because if they did, there would have been no saturday night wrist!and that album is great except the fact that it is a little too mellow but whatever, deftones proved that after a rough era, they can still come back with a hard hitting album! so i say NO and keep goin while u still can!
Self Titled is one of the best albums,
especially because of 'Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event' song, it always gets me so proud of the band, come on what other band can accomplish such melodic and harmonic sound??
NO.
ST is teh shit.
No.
no.
what a stupid question.
no need to answer. or discuss.
Imagine what at the drive-in could record if they didn't disbanded in 2001
should they ever disband?
no!
Quote from: Zevaka on May 26, 2008, 02:01 PM
Imagine what at the drive-in could record if they didn't disbanded in 2001
there's more ways than uphill.
Quote from: Infector on May 26, 2008, 09:57 AM
You have got to be kidding.... Possibly the stupidest question I've ever bared witness too on this forum.
On that note: No.
what's wrong with "going out with a bang?".
at the drive in did it. refused did it. nirvana did it. and all of them are considered classics now. i honestly think deftones have passed their prime (in terms of music, the impact they have [or had] and saleswise of course). i doubt they will ever be as good and appealing as during the white pony era. but who knows. the new record could prove me wrong.
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 04:28 PM
Quote from: Infector on May 26, 2008, 09:57 AM
You have got to be kidding.... Possibly the stupidest question I've ever bared witness too on this forum.
On that note: No.
what's wrong with "going out with a bang?".
at the drive in did it. refused did it. nirvana did it. and all of them are considered classics now. i honestly think deftones have passed their prime (in terms of music, the impact they have [or had] and saleswise of course). i doubt they will ever be as good and appealing as during the white pony era. but who knows. the new record could prove me wrong.
Uh, Nirvana? I don't think Nirvana really disbanded so much as the lead singer shot himself in the face.
Oh yeah, and nice unintentional pun.
Nein
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
i personally find S/T uninspired and dull, but that's just me.
Quote from: rainnyx4 on May 26, 2008, 04:46 PM
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 04:28 PM
Quote from: Infector on May 26, 2008, 09:57 AM
You have got to be kidding.... Possibly the stupidest question I've ever bared witness too on this forum.
On that note: No.
what's wrong with "going out with a bang?".
at the drive in did it. refused did it. nirvana did it. and all of them are considered classics now. i honestly think deftones have passed their prime (in terms of music, the impact they have [or had] and saleswise of course). i doubt they will ever be as good and appealing as during the white pony era. but who knows. the new record could prove me wrong.
Uh, Nirvana? I don't think Nirvana really disbanded so much as the lead singer shot himself in the face.
Oh yeah, and nice unintentional pun.
well, then scratch nirvana off that list.
I see your point but theres now way I could wish they had disbanded after WP (maby cause ST is equally as good IMO :P)
But thats an interesting thing to think about how WP would stand out today if they had called it a day.
offtopic but Korn should have disbanded some 10 years ago.
Quote from: deepest_ocean on May 26, 2008, 06:11 PM
I see your point but theres now way I could wish they had disbanded after WP (maby cause ST is equally as good IMO :P)
But thats an interesting thing to think about how WP would stand out today if they had called it a day.
offtopic but Korn should have disbanded some 10 years ago.
Pretty much. As long as the Deftones are putting out quality records, which they are, they should stick together. Korn on the other hand, should have quit after Follow the Leader or at the latest, Untouchables. It would've cemented them as an epic band rather than the joke they are now.
I would'nt be as big of a fan had they split up
and s/t owns... you must have shitty speakers or something
Quote from: deepest_ocean on May 26, 2008, 06:11 PM
offtopic but Korn should have disbanded some 10 years ago.
after "issues" me thinks!
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 05:42 PM
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
i personally find S/T uninspired and dull, but that's just me.
Yes... issues with speakers or something. Hexagram, Needles and Pins, Good Morning Beauiful, Deathblow... WGTB, Battle-Axe, Bloody Cape, Moana and Bloody Cape!! How can you think they are dull? I'm perplexed. =o\
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 06:32 PM
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 05:42 PM
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
i personally find S/T uninspired and dull, but that's just me.
Yes... issues with speakers or something. Hexagram, Needles and Pins, Good Morning Beauiful, Deathblow... WGTB, Battle-Axe, Bloody Cape, Moana and Bloody Cape!! How can you think they are dull? I'm perplexed. =o\
Hey! Minerva is pretty nice too ; ).
Basically the whole CD fucking rocked. And, on that note... I also liked alot of SNW. This guy is outta his tree thinkin that they should have broken up after WP...
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 06:41 PM
Basically the whole CD fucking rocked. And, on that note... I also liked alot of SNW. This guy is outta his tree thinkin that they should have broken up after WP...
Yeah I tottaly agree. Disbanding? No. A short hiatus? Maybe, but it doesn't matter, cause Chino writes that recording Eros is going gooood.
i've never said i'd prefer them broken up or anything. i just wanted to know what you guys think. of course to us fans (well, i'm not sure if i consider myself a fan) the obvious answer to this question is "no". but what if they split after white pony? personally, i think that the impact they had would've been even bigger. and on the other hand i find white pony a great swansong. to me it's their best record. it's a flawless masterpiece.
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 06:32 PM
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 05:42 PM
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
i personally find S/T uninspired and dull, but that's just me.
Yes... issues with speakers or something. Hexagram, Needles and Pins, Good Morning Beauiful, Deathblow... WGTB, Battle-Axe, Bloody Cape, Moana and Bloody Cape!! How can you think they are dull? I'm perplexed. =o\
i think it really boils down to expectations. and while white pony exceeded my expectations, i found s/t to be rather underwhelming. i don't want this to become a s/t versus white pony debate (since we had enough of them), but to me, white pony was pushing the envelope. nobody expected white pony to be what it turned out to be. they took two steps forward with fur to pony and one step back when they released s/t.
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 07:13 PM
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 06:32 PM
Quote from: Caín on May 26, 2008, 05:42 PM
Quote from: White Pwny on May 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
ST proved you wrong. Srsly.
i personally find S/T uninspired and dull, but that's just me.
Yes... issues with speakers or something. Hexagram, Needles and Pins, Good Morning Beauiful, Deathblow... WGTB, Battle-Axe, Bloody Cape, Moana and Bloody Cape!! How can you think they are dull? I'm perplexed. =o\
i think it really boils down to expectations. and while white pony exceeded my expectations, i found s/t to be rather underwhelming. i don't want this to become a s/t versus white pony debate (since we had enough of them), but to me, white pony was pushing the envelope. nobody expected white pony to be what it turned out to be. they took two steps forward with fur to pony and one step back when they released s/t.
I've been saying this on the board for years. I think you must be the only other person here to agree with me.
They shouldn't have quit after White Pony, no. They released solid material afterwards and some of my favourite songs of theirs. As a fan it would have given me less stuff to listen to. The first time I saw them live was in '03 so I would have missed out on that too.
However, If they did indeed end it after White Pony then they'd be considered truly classic I believe. Flawless in fact. It was their creative peak and they'll never better it. Say yes to drugs.
st was better that whtie pony so: no.end of story. retard
personally I prefer when a band keeps making music and touring even if their newer stuff isn't up to par with the old. as long as they don't turn to complete shit. but so far Deftones haven't, so no I don't think they should've disbanded.
WHAT A FAG
let's not turn this into a flamewar please.
wtf just because your favorite cd by a band isn't their most recent you think they should have broken up? god, i hate all this "they're never gonna make something as good as white pony, because that was the soundtrack to my puberty mehhhh" shit. maybe this would be a real discussion if they had just broken up, but uhh they do have a new album coming out, and you're not holding out any hope for it?
snw & s/t ftw
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on May 27, 2008, 01:50 AM
i hate all this "they're never gonna make something as good as white pony, because that was the soundtrack to my puberty mehhhh" shit.
rofl
S/T did own. Hello, When Girls Telephone Boys? Hexagram? Minerva? Bloody Cape? Moana? All classics in every one of my mix cds
What an idiot topic
Quote from: Yasiu on May 26, 2008, 06:46 PM
Maybe, but it doesn't matter, cause Chino writes that recording Eros is going gooood.
They say that everytime they're recording. And it's going to be their best record everytime too.
But quiting: definately not!
well im just gonna go ahead and agree with you cause i get tired of the attacking, whining, and obsession with aguing,,,,,i mean technically i disagree, but becaue that was such a bold statement...man, you got balls
Quote from: i kill for fun on May 27, 2008, 09:09 AM
well im just gonna go ahead and agree with you cause i get tired of the attacking, whining, and obsession with aguing,,,,,i mean technically i disagree, but becaue that was such a bold statement...man, you got balls
lol.
thanks man. appreciated.
I agree as to don't worry what anyone thinks of you on here but... If they had broken up after WP then we wouldn't have S/T which in my opinion, is one of the greatest, darkest emotional albums ever made. I cannot imagine my life without the S/T album. I'm so sorry that you cannot see the beauty that is Deftones - S/T...
this is an interesting topic. of course i say no way, i'm glad they've made 2 more albums, going on 3 with eros. but yea, their legacy would probably be a lot bigger had they broke up say in late 2001. i mean, i liked s/t, but it wasnt anywhere near as good as WP, & it was definitely a step back. SNW was a step up from s/t, & back on the right track, but maybe not quite on the same page as the first 3 albums(though it's close). it really just depends on your taste, some may like their newer sound better, it is pretty damn great. but think about it, had they left off at WP, they'd have 3 flawless albums, no fat jokes, just all good things
but yea, i'm glad they're still together & making this new record
definitiely no. who knows, maybe theyll release another like WP. I liked S/T and SNW btw
uh... no
and s/t is deftones' crown jewel. i love all the tracks it came with.
white pony is just what the album sales have reflected. commercial success. i could live without "change", i despise that track. and i don't think i'd be able to listen to white pony on a loop for a second time, no way. s/t on the other hand, i heard for two weeks front to back and i cried because it was so beautiful.
deftones breaking up after white pony would mean no s/t and i can't have that.
and thanks for bringing korn up. yeah, they should've broken up after... follow the leader.
Quote from: kalhan on May 28, 2008, 02:18 AM
and thanks for bringing korn up. yeah, they should've broken up after... follow the leader.
Fuckin 'a.
No way Deftones shouldve broken up. Im not saying they need to go on like the Rolling Stones touring in their depends but they still have alot to offer and I for one want to receive it.
'deftones' is their best album.
stupid question..... no
as has een said already, if they would have ended it after wp there would be no hate.
Quote from: Hidalgo on May 27, 2008, 06:52 PM
had they left off at WP, they'd have 3 flawless albums, no fat jokes, just all good things
But you cant tell me that when you put in S/T, those first few notes of Hexagram doesnt do something to you
Yeah, I like S/T more than White Pony.
Much darker
s/t is my fav album from them, so.. no.
Quote from: wither-I on May 28, 2008, 04:34 PM
as has een said already, if they would have ended it after wp there would be no hate.
Quote from: Hidalgo on May 27, 2008, 06:52 PM
had they left off at WP, they'd have 3 flawless albums, no fat jokes, just all good things
yes there would. there would be those complaining about how mainstream Deftones had gotten with WP or that they had mixed in too much electronica. there will always be people complaining, no matter what.
Quote from: cast so cool on May 28, 2008, 05:27 PM
But you cant tell me that when you put in S/T, those first few notes of Hexagram doesnt do something to you
oh i adore s/t. this is not me. i love them still going strong.
but as history looks back....
No. Deftones is THE band. A world without Bloody Cape or Beware would be hard to live in.
it's very puzzling why this entire board has taken s/t under it's wing as their best album. it's pretty much clearly known as their worst album. i think it's their worst (yet it's still a good album for sure)
we need to do a "best deftones album" poll again
I was going to say the same thing. When I first joined this Forum I remember expressing my love for S/T album and many of the replies I got were 'That's cool man cos not many people see S/T in such high regard as you do...' Maybe over time the people who didn't enjoy it much at first have come to realise just how great an album it is? I don't know but it does seem strange as I thought the majority on here didn't like S/T very much...
most people on this board are depressed thats why.
Quote from: Starz on May 28, 2008, 11:02 PM
I was going to say the same thing. When I first joined this Forum I remember expressing my love for S/T album and many of the replies I got were 'That's cool man cos not many people see S/T in such high regard as you do...' Maybe over time the people who didn't enjoy it much at first have come to realise just how great an album it is? I don't know but it does seem strange as I thought the majority on here didn't like S/T very much...
I thought it was their worst when it came out and still do. Not saying it's bad, just their weakest effort. Though Anniversary is one of their best songs.
Quote from: rainnyx4 on May 29, 2008, 12:59 AM
Quote from: Starz on May 28, 2008, 11:02 PM
I was going to say the same thing. When I first joined this Forum I remember expressing my love for S/T album and many of the replies I got were 'That's cool man cos not many people see S/T in such high regard as you do...' Maybe over time the people who didn't enjoy it much at first have come to realise just how great an album it is? I don't know but it does seem strange as I thought the majority on here didn't like S/T very much...
I thought it was their worst when it came out and still do. Not saying it's bad, just their weakest effort. Though Anniversary is one of their best songs.
What? You think that S/T is weak, but you deem the weakest song on the record it one of the best in their career? I know its your opinion but most people don't like Anniversary. I always thought it was filler material.
Quote from: mr.sinester on May 29, 2008, 01:56 AM
Quote from: rainnyx4 on May 29, 2008, 12:59 AM
Quote from: Starz on May 28, 2008, 11:02 PM
I was going to say the same thing. When I first joined this Forum I remember expressing my love for S/T album and many of the replies I got were 'That's cool man cos not many people see S/T in such high regard as you do...' Maybe over time the people who didn't enjoy it much at first have come to realise just how great an album it is? I don't know but it does seem strange as I thought the majority on here didn't like S/T very much...
I thought it was their worst when it came out and still do. Not saying it's bad, just their weakest effort. Though Anniversary is one of their best songs.
What? You think that S/T is weak, but you deem the weakest song on the record it one of the best in their career? I know its your opinion but most people don't like Anniversary. I always thought it was filler material.
Most people are faggots.
well im jus gonna go ahead and be an asshole and say yes b/c im tired of the same conversation
i would of been very piss
i hate when bands break up
remember when the S/T cover art gave me a boner
i dont think this is such a bad question. i dont agree they should have, i didnt even know what deftones did till after wp was released, then i worked back through adrenaline and atf, and i remember the anticipation for self titled coming out. good times.
but i do feel, after seeing them in sydney last year that it would be the last time i go see them play. my own personal opinion is that i want to keep them relevant to that stage of my life, because they meant so much to me back then [2001,02,03]. i even flew to berlin to see them play because they didnt tour australia with st. now i dont feel the same way, and i dont want to spoil anything. strange i know, just the way i feel...
Quote from: feeling like more on May 29, 2008, 05:18 AM
i dont think this is such a bad question. i dont agree they should have, i didnt even know what deftones did till after wp was released, then i worked back through adrenaline and atf, and i remember the anticipation for self titled coming out. good times.
but i do feel, after seeing them in sydney last year that it would be the last time i go see them play. my own personal opinion is that i want to keep them relevant to that stage of my life, because they meant so much to me back then [2001,02,03]. i even flew to berlin to see them play because they didnt tour australia with st. now i dont feel the same way, and i dont want to spoil anything. strange i know, just the way i feel...
I kinda see what you mean. I've also flown to Berlin to see them twice now because they never play in Sweden (well, they did the summer of '05, but it was such a crappy gig I barely remember it). and I'm not sure I feel like doing that anymore. depends on how good the new album is, obviously.
also, I started with ATF but never got into it until I got WP. so in a way, WP is the first Deftones album I got into, then I worked my way back. there were so many things I loved about WP and with that being their latest album, I expected huge things from S/T. I was very disappointed but I still like it a lot. when SNW was on its way I again had big expectations on it, but nowhere near as big as before. this time the album was a lot better, probably partly because my expectations weren't as big. but now.... well, I expect the album to be good, since it's Deftones. but that's about it. it's not the same kind of anticipation anymore. I'm not thinking about the album for one second when I'm not on the board for example.
yeah there are alot of good things about st, but the best thing for me was the build up of it being released. i might be wrong, actually i probably am wrong, but parts of me think that they are not a band who are going to pick up many new fans now, and they are only making new material for those of us who have been listening to them for a while. and i guess that i am happy with what they have given me and i dont need anything new now. that said i will still likely listen to the new album and any future releases, but if they stopped now, i would say ok, and be happy with what we already have.
Quote from: cast so cool on May 28, 2008, 05:27 PM
But you cant tell me that when you put in S/T, those first few notes of Hexagram doesnt do something to you
honestly, no. i just feel like: "this shit is so overproduced". two or three minutes into the song i think: "stop this shit already. it's annoying" it's the same fucking riff all over again.
Quote from: Timmy666 on May 29, 2008, 04:56 AM
remember when the S/T cover art gave me a boner
oh no, you didn't? the roses and the skull?
i think he's talking about the snw cover.
moving on, s/t is a big fuck you to most of the heavy metal bands out there and it makes them look like castrated little boys. especially tracks like bloody cape, hexagram and... when girls telephone boys.
yes of course they should have disbanded, in fact they should have done it after like linus. youre so right.
fucking idiot
Quote from: kalhan on May 29, 2008, 09:12 AM
i think he's talking about the snw cover.
moving on, s/t is a big fuck you to most of the heavy metal bands out there and it makes them look like castrated little boys. especially tracks like bloody cape, hexagram and... when girls telephone boys.
you must be listening to some shit metal
i wonder how do this thread has already 4 pages...
anyhow. If they disbanded it could be one of the most EPIC dis-bandings ever
But i'm still happy they didn't.
Quote from: jesusinabowlofdirt on May 29, 2008, 11:59 AM
yes of course they should have disbanded, in fact they should have done it after like linus. youre so right.
fucking idiot
keep the insults to yourself please.
im already waiting for the reunion tour
yes, they should've disbanded because you know all bands break up after they've made a platinum album while they're still young and are still hungry to explore their musical potential.
::)
Quote from: blondie on May 29, 2008, 09:29 PM
yes, they should've disbanded because you know all bands break up after they've made a platinum album while they're still young and are still hungry to explore their musical potential.
::)
^5
Quote from: blondie on May 29, 2008, 09:29 PM
yes, they should've disbanded because you know all bands break up after they've made a platinum album while they're still young and are still hungry to explore their musical potential.
::)
wouldn't have made much sense would it?
flip burgers? or make a lot of money playing music?
Quote from: Hidalgo on May 29, 2008, 10:20 PM
Quote from: blondie on May 29, 2008, 09:29 PM
yes, they should've disbanded because you know all bands break up after they've made a platinum album while they're still young and are still hungry to explore their musical potential.
::)
wouldn't have made much sense would it?
flip burgers? or make a lot of money playing music?
if i recall correctly, the band ran into moneyproblems right after s/t. guess musicbusiness wasn't going to good.
i think they were fine until they took most of 04 off, & all of 05 off from touring
cant wait for the " If one one the members died..." thread
I came back to here JUST for this topic.
I have to say to the topic starter: magnificent topic, at least you have the balls to state a question like this.
Also: you proved over half of this message board is fucking dumb ass, they can't even properly discuss a topic like this. They just start flaming because OMG YOU SAYIN SOMETHING BAAAD ABOUT MY FIRST BAND!!!11oneone
As to agreeing with you, it's a mixed back. I can DEF. agree on the fact that they would have been much more legendary by this point if they had called it quits after WP. It happens to all these bands that do it, like you mentioned, like ATD-I and Refused. Nine Inch Nails could've done it as well after the Fragile. It's just that so much bands reach a creative high point at some point and they never get above that. Everything that follows stands in the shadow of that very record. Ive never made it a secret that I always think like this, it happens with all bands, if they dont split up on time that is.
However you can never know for sure. For all we know they will make a second classic record. Then again, they will never be considered as a fantastic band the way a band as ATD-I is considered, just because their discography isn't flawless anymore.
I'm very happy they still make music though, I want more of it, all the time. As long as they don't put out a stinker to end their career, like The Clash did with Cut the Crap for example, I'll be satisfied I guess.
the "question" to this thread ( to me , atleast the replies) only applies to those who just got into Deftones after or during the release of WP...
anyone who heard their records prior or saw them on tour prior to this release knows what kind of band talent wise they were already.....I like WP, but anyone IMO who says that is their "peak" doesnt know a asshole from a elbow .........and shouldnt have any opinion on what is their best..
I know we all have diff. opinions and styles or whatever the lilly fuck...the fact still remains...WP was their most comfortable / easy to get into record that most casual listeners & first time listeners of the band connect with ...
but....
ATF was their "peak" and deserved alot more credit that half of you people/fans can even fathom
Quote from: samson simpson on May 30, 2008, 10:55 AM
ATF was their "peak" and deserved alot more credit that half of you people/fans can even fathom
M o t h e r F u c k i n g W o r d.
I got into Deftones during ATF, but I still like White Pony more. To each his own.
Sorry to go off tangent but....HOLY FUCK.....it's the MOZ.
Aloha.
....k back on topic now...music, if anything, is one of the most pure forms of expression.In saying I believe the interpretation is also equally open to individual honesty and opinion but I still have to agree with Sampson.
People who don't see ATF as defining just confuse me.
Quote from: Moz on May 30, 2008, 11:01 AM
To each his own.
no.
white pony is good, but I like the sounds Deftones keeps coming out with.
Quote from: samson simpson on May 30, 2008, 10:55 AM
the "question" to this thread ( to me , atleast the replies) only applies to those who just got into Deftones after or during the release of WP...
anyone who heard their records prior or saw them on tour prior to this release knows what kind of band talent wise they were already.....I like WP, but anyone IMO who says that is their "peak" doesnt know a asshole from a elbow .........and shouldnt have any opinion on what is their best..
I know we all have diff. opinions and styles or whatever the lilly fuck...the fact still remains...WP was their most comfortable / easy to get into record that most casual listeners & first time listeners of the band connect with ...
but....
ATF was their "peak" and deserved alot more credit that half of you people/fans can even fathom
it's all about taste, dude.
I could say the same about you - I think ATF is boring, a bit uninspired and sounds like an attempt to break into the mainstream. if you think that's their peak, you don't know shit. see how easy that was? :P
Yeah thats a fair call.
It's always about perspective and opinion but back on track in terms of the header.....
Fuck....no......
Self-Titled is far from my favorite album but imo it's the most honest.I'm just glad to have it and as long as the Deftones put out good music I'm happy.
actually fuck it.
Quote from: fireflyry on May 30, 2008, 11:08 AM
Sorry to go off tangent but....HOLY FUCK.....it's the MOZ.
Aloha.
hah, hey man
No offense but bad analogy, for me personally....
If the Deftones ever get as bad as Korn post FTL I'll be the first praying they quit and I also don't believe a band should be making music if they aren't passionate about it.There is a difference between making honest and passionate music and bending over and taking it up the pooper because a record company says you should.
Tangent to be sure but I have no respect for the remaining members of Korn.The talent and passion left the building a long time ago and they now represent everything I hate about commercial rock.
Big marketing.....no substance.
Edit:Starz had an edit...I had a beer...fuck it.
Sorry I couldn't be bothered, unfortunately everybody has their own opinion so everyone is wrong so ultimately this thread will be in a continuous circle...
Dude 99% of forum topics are like that.
The fun is in sharing opinions and different points of view.
Right and wrong is consistently irrelevant.
It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.
I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.
Like bestiality.
Quote from: ToneDef on May 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.
I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.
Like bestiality.
true. you don't realise how much you missed yourself until you are single again. not suggesting you should become a single, but it becomes so clear then how you push things of your own personality aside in a relationship, even if she's not asking you to do so
Quote from: ToneDef on May 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.
I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.
Like bestiality.
If you don't feel like you're being 100% you around your significant other that's a bad sign. There are things you can compromise on, but who you are is not one of them.
Quote from: rainnyx4 on May 30, 2008, 04:20 PM
Quote from: ToneDef on May 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.
I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.
Like bestiality.
If you don't feel like you're being 100% you around your significant other that's a bad sign. There are things you can compromise on, but who you are is not one of them.
truism.
Quote from: ToneDef on May 30, 2008, 03:47 PM
It's kinda shitty sometimes I'm not as pumped about the next record as I have been with previous efforts. s/t especially.
I mean, this band used to be my whole world. They're still important to me, but just not in the same way. I don't really know why exactly, but I've just been doing more stuff now, you know? I have a girlfriend who doesn't even know who they are and wouldn't think of trying to get into them, and 90% of my spare time is spent with her. I really gotta make more time for myself because I'm losing interest in the things that gave me pleasure before.
Like bestiality.
Welcome to life.
My name is Ry.....and I'm a wizard.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8382/clerks2qv2.jpg)
i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.
Nice post right there ^^^^^
Quote from: fireflyry on May 30, 2008, 06:00 PM
Nice post right there ^^^^^
it shouldnt surprise anyone, since im teh shit
Quote from: goldpony on May 30, 2008, 05:43 PM
i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.
Exactly.
Quote from: goldpony on May 30, 2008, 06:12 PM
Quote from: fireflyry on May 30, 2008, 06:00 PM
Nice post right there ^^^^^
it shouldnt surprise anyone, since im teh shit
Right... :)
Quote from: goldpony on May 30, 2008, 05:43 PM
i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.
great post, couldn't agree more. however, I thought they had more problems with S/T and were quite satisfied with SNW?
Quote from: aenemic on May 30, 2008, 08:50 PM
Quote from: goldpony on May 30, 2008, 05:43 PM
i think that as long as bands keep making music they are happy with, thats the only thing that matters. if they are doing it for reasons other than that, they need to call it a day. i think the tones have been quite pleased with what they have released (even if they have issues with SNW) and the sound keeps evolving. i personally cant wait for their new stuff just to see what direction they take.
great post, couldn't agree more. however, I thought they had more problems with S/T and were quite satisfied with SNW?
yea, they didn't act real happy about how s/t turned out, but they all seemed content about snw
As to agreeing with you, it's a mixed back. BAG? Look, no Hexagram=fucked up...the only thing I'll agree with the White Pony split (disband) is that Chino started his uhhh...decline in between White Pony and S/T...that is a fucking GREAT album...Snw left ALOT t o be desired (for me) also... (me) Minerva is a (way) better single than Change...it pisses me off (seriously) that S/T gets slighted the way it does and most jock white pony way too much...Look, If I really had to pick which album I liked better, that answer would probably change fro day to day-but S/T is a MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't have minded if they disbanded after 'Deftones'. SNW ended up fucking horrible.
that's odd. i'd say some of the songs on snw are the best deftones tracks to date.
I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.
Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.
Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.
I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.
As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.
If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.
That was a very good read, thank you for that. I feel entirely the same way about Saturday Night Wrist too.
I think the Deftones prove themselves each album. Everytime people try to write them off, they hit people with something AMAZING! They have made it COOL to have a left-field sound. Deftones are the elephants in the room. Deftones get major respect from the metal bands, alternative bands, punk bands, rappers and etc. White Pony is a classic in my opinion. White Pony saved my life. I had the hardest time in high school and I was ready to give up and take my life. White Pony inspired me to write (again) live and love life. As for the other albums, no they don't have the same inpact as White Pony, but what band hasn't done that. Ex: Linkin Park (Hybrid Theory), Korn (Issues), Slipknot (self-titled), System Of A Down (Toxicity), Stone Temple Pilots (Core), Evanescence (Fallen), Limp Bizkit (Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water or Significant Other). So to answer the question............NO!
white pony saved your life? well snw almost made me take my own life
Quote from: Bergerac on May 31, 2008, 02:53 PM
As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.
it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.
all hail the ezrin demos.
all hail this post.
bless.
Quote from: Bergerac on May 31, 2008, 02:53 PM
I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.
Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.
Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.
I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.
As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.
If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.
NO.
Yes.
Quote from: Bergerac on May 31, 2008, 02:53 PM
I loved the Ezrin stuff, and I think material like 'Buffalo' was evocative of a post-S/T creative peak. I think if S/T was them going through the motions of all or any horrible shit that was happening in their lives at the time, the first seeds of SNW were the resolution of that period; when their expression of the various issues had become more precise. They knew exactly what was up by that point. Yet at the same time, their thirst for escapism started providing a nice contrast. Particularly 'Buffalo', which from the sounds of things (namely the few audible lyrics), is the death knell of Chino and Celeste: very likely the main reason that Chino 'doesn't want to' put lyrics to it and finalise it.
Most of what made it onto SNW I think was overly processed, and downright empty, the band referencing sounds of other bands/artists that they liked rather than being themselves. I think its obvious that the band lost complete sight of the vision of what was supposed to be 'Saturday Night Wrist'. Maybe there never was any clarity; I'd find that plausible of a statement of confusion. Very few of the resulting songs on SNW are evocative of that initial mood you get when listening to the older demos, or indeed the SNW concept. I think that the escapism took over whatever meaningful aspirations the band initially had for the album, which led to stuff like 'Rapture', 'Mein' and 'Xerces' taking precedence over better, potentially more heartfelt material. Sure, different people like how 'Mein' ended up and whatever, as individual songs, but how on Earth does 'Mein' fit in with the mood of 'Saturday Night Wrist'? Considering stuff like 'Beware', 'Buffalo', and 'Cherry Waves', this was conceptually just as dark an album as S/T. Though, its a darkness I don't think they were able to confront in the end.
Chino leaving for Team Sleep, the album taking so long, the band almost not wanting to finish the album or indeed carry on as a band... they pretty obviously lost their direction and passion. As a result, I think that they delivered an album which was vague without purpose, unexciting and lacking any of the heart that Deftones suddenly injected into S/T, elevating their music to a new height. That was what was really important about S/T. They couldn't afford to miss that out with SNW, but they did.
I think that elements of what were meant to be, had naturally carried over, obviously, because the same songs are essentially in a portion of the demos. That said, I think those songs lost that magical quality they had in their conception. Particularly in the ways in which the album tracks ended up reacting with each other, and their lack of cohesion. For instance, that subversive, exploration of whatthefuckever that was supposed to be present in 'Pink Cellphone', ended up being the usual, token electronic track (given the rest of the album/direction), like the band had fallen to the formulaic. In contrast, the brooding inference, mood or desperation that 'Lucky You' has, 'PC' has nothing on that level. It just plain falls flat as an 'experiment' with some profanity tagged on the end, but it couldn't be any less of an experiment given what we know these guys are capable of.
As for the Ezrin material, Demos 5, 7, 9, 7, 12, 13 and 15 I think were a perfect direction for them to be heading in. The initial bones of stuff like 'Beware', 'Cherry Waves' and 'Combat' were all in the same vein, but they ended up giving them horrible treatments by the time it was finished. SNW just doesn't have any soul from what I hear.
If I were to be basic about it: it ended up too influenced by Chino's time with Team Sleep; it had Chino's worst lyrics to date, especially 'Rapture'; the production is good, but its... wrong. SNW sounds crisp, polished, poppy and clean, but it should be more like sticky nightclub/light sleeping sweat and the hybridisation of beer and dust on a dance floor; the album pulls the listener in many directions, but its largely unintentional - the vague nature of the album being less a controlled effort and more that the band became caught up in it.
Epic post (although I'll respectfully disagree about Cherry Waves).
ignore this post.
I think someone said it but My only beef is with SNW is that you can tell Team Sleep influenced it quite a bit
speaking of WP, i heard change(in the house of flies) on the radio tonight. it was weird, i handt heard it on the radio for so long, years & years & years. but it was played A LOT back in 2000 & 2001. it kinda pisses me off that it isnt played more. it should be a no brainer to play that song fairly often
I think Deftones should have called it a day after White Pony and let the dust settle more. I think Chino's voice could have done with a break from the screaming, he could have gone off and dedicated more time to his side projects rather than doing bits here and there to the detriment of the self-titled album and SNW. However, I also think they should have reformed round about now, i'd wager Chino's voice would have recovered (teamsleep isn't going to rupture any vocal chords any time soon) and it would be a very very hyped album. That's not to say i'm not grateful for the last two albums, and i appreciate that they are hardly known for rushing into their next albums but i think they burnt themselves out a bit and they could have done with a longer rest between the follow up to WP.
interesting opinion. Or he could go to a vocal coach, and educate his singing nature.
No S/T never exists?
That's a world I don't want to live in.
Quote from: Inkblades on Jun 11, 2008, 06:50 AM
No S/T never exists?
That's a world I don't want to live in.
That sums up my thoughts on this pretty much perfectly.
I got into Deftones just before the release of S/T and I can remember the day I bought that and WP and I listened to them for hours when I got home. If I'm honest I prefer S/T - it gives me shivers every time I hear the first riff in Hexagram.
Battle-Axe or When Girls Telephone Boys are my favourite songs off S/T today but tomorrow it will change. I must listen to S/T what, at least 5 times a day? I always play it before bedtime when the lights have been turned off.
no and yes
I think today Needles & Pins is my favourite song off S/T. I'll let you know if it changes tomorrow which is most likely
come to think of it, most of my favorite deftones tracks are off s/t
good album
self titled was a grower for me.. on first listen i was let down on every level imaginable.. but now i fucking love it.. amazing album.
the question should be, Should I as a deftones fan, stopped being a fan after white pony?
you as a fan mean nothing in the direction of artists.
Opinions and fish.
Quote from: LIFEAFTERDEATH on Jun 14, 2008, 05:34 AM
the question should be, Should I as a deftones fan, stopped being a fan after white pony?
you as a fan mean nothing in the direction of artists.
Opinions and fish.
sorry, dude. you're missing the point. it's not about me or my taste or anything, but the deftones' legacy.
deftones is a tiny band. they've only gone platinum once... there is no legacy... just a bunch of fans that are musically educated.
they're a respected band, yes. and i don't see how that respect would die down after white pony. infact, i'd say white pony is my least favorite deftones album. it's great, but i think i've exhausted it, i don't listen to those songs anymore.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 14, 2008, 05:24 AM
self titled was a grower for me.. on first listen i was let down on every level imaginable.. but now i fucking love it.. amazing album.
Same here
I couldn't do w/o that album. But at first listen I was let down. Going from WP to S/Twas a big adjustment for me but I love it now.
Quote from: emehlen on Jun 15, 2008, 04:24 PM
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 14, 2008, 05:24 AM
self titled was a grower for me.. on first listen i was let down on every level imaginable.. but now i fucking love it.. amazing album.
Same here
I couldn't do w/o that album. But at first listen I was let down. Going from WP to S/Twas a big adjustment for me but I love it now.
It was the same exact way for me. The husband and I went and bought it... sat and listened... and were like, WTF?! I felt the same way you guys did. After a little time, every single song has grown on me. Fucking amazing album. I could not imagine no ST.
^^
+1 - Particularly since SNW was released S/T has grown on me. Something didn't sound right when I first heard it, but now it sounds like a whole album. SNW in comparison sounds quite jumbled up and disjointed?
no. deftones sound is essential to my life i love wp its the first cd i give to myfreinds S/T grew on me to i love lucky you, i mean even with SNW it took a long haul but now i love all the albums..eros is gunna rock...if it ever gets finished
Quote from: kalhan on Jun 15, 2008, 08:37 AM
deftones is a tiny band. they've only gone platinum once... there is no legacy... just a bunch of fans that are musically educated.
they're a respected band, yes. and i don't see how that respect would die down after white pony. infact, i'd say white pony is my least favorite deftones album. it's great, but i think i've exhausted it, i don't listen to those songs anymore.
Speaking of numbers, in the bible, numbers shows that the most signifigant prophets, including jesus himself had the smallest number of followers, so there is a legacy. There is even a legacy in your life, how far that goes is up to you.
I just bought the Deftones Tribute album. The people who did that album should definitlely disband.
youre all a bunch of fangirls ;D
deftones have a legacy. they're one of the only bands around from they're era still doin the same shit they did 18 years ago. biatch
should deftones have disbanded after white pony?
Nope, I still enjoy everything they produce. Just my too sense...
Quote from: Infector on May 26, 2008, 09:57 AM
You have got to be kidding....
On that note: No.
hmmm i agree that if they would have then they would have probablly blew up and everyone would have said deftones quit to early, but there would have been no S/T so i would have to say no, now should they have disbanded after S/T? maybe, but ill hold off on that until the new album comes out.
If they did disband after White Pony, then me and my friends never would have got to see them live when they came to Ottawa for the Taste Of Chaos tour, so I would definetly have to say NO. they still released some interesting tracks after WP, even if the majority of you pricks say S/T and SNW are crap albums, i don't give a flying motherfuck. Some of the stuff on the Bob Ezrin demo sessions is the best Deftones stuff I've ever heard... Can't get that Untitled track 9 out of my head, and I don't ever want to. Come suck the herpes off my dick if you argue me bitches
Quote from: Nebontha on Jul 05, 2008, 05:39 PM
If they did disband after White Pony, then me and my friends never would have got to see them live when they came to Ottawa for the Taste Of Chaos tour, so I would definetly have to say NO. they still released some interesting tracks after WP, even if the majority of you pricks say S/T and SNW are crap albums, i don't give a flying motherfuck. Some of the stuff on the Bob Ezrin demo sessions is the best Deftones stuff I've ever heard... Can't get that Untitled track 9 out of my head, and I don't ever want to. Come suck the herpes off my dick if you argue me bitches
i think s/t gets the most of the love around here.
i think s/t really killed SNW's sales, cause so many people werent thrilled with s/t, that they didnt even check out snw
man i love S/T
to defend S/T i must point out that deftones will never make anything like - "Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event" - that song is truly amazing
Quote from: vadimo on Jul 11, 2008, 06:33 PM
to defend S/T i must point out that deftones will never make anything like - "Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event" - that song is truly amazing
That is one of their best songs. But, it doesn't make S/T as a whole better than any of their other records, including SNW.
Quote from: rainnyx4 on Jul 11, 2008, 06:55 PM
Quote from: vadimo on Jul 11, 2008, 06:33 PM
to defend S/T i must point out that deftones will never make anything like - "Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event" - that song is truly amazing
That is one of their best songs. But, it doesn't make S/T as a whole better than any of their other records, including SNW.
well i have expressed my love towards S/T in this thread before (somewhere in early pages), so this is just as finish up.
you could think of my presence in this thread as having systematic sex; foreplay > get in sticky > and the big bang.
Quote from: Deftones86 on Jul 05, 2008, 03:36 AM
hmmm i agree that if they would have then they would have probablly blew up and everyone would have said deftones quit to early, but there would have been no S/T so i would have to say no, now should they have disbanded after S/T? maybe, but ill hold off on that until the new album comes out.
i'm not sure whether i like ST or whether i just listened to it thousands of times because i'd waited for it for yeeearrs.