Yesterday in a conversation with a close friend who is and was Deftones fan like me we both realized, finally, that self-titled is their masterpiece, their highest point of creativity.
I believe that with this album they have gained their maturity, image, style.
This was also the best choice for the cover art - as for the vines and roses and a skull represents deeply the album's atmosphere and feel. It's dark, it's poetic, it's rather philosophical, it's royal.
Well, but this is my personal belief. Thoughts?
I concur. It feels like White Pony was totally left-field for them and exciting, but S/T is where they established a deeper, more mature sound. Then with SNW and DE, it feels like they haven't really expanded, but just kept at a consistent pace [not saying those aren't great albums, but I don't hear different ideas that make me say WHAT???" ] I have to say "Anniversary Of An Uninteresting Event"is one of their most amazing songs. So ambient, shows the true creativity of Deftones.
EDIT: And I love how at times, the vocals get lost in the music, just drift off into the back then come back up to the front. The guitars blend to make a wall of sound. The drums slowed down in some songs, the Abe's syncopated style of drumming is perfected on this album. The bass is always creeping up, a brooding kind of sound. Frank's effects are subtle, but make a huge impact. I love how none of the songs sound like they are written to be singles. Amazing album.
I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off :) I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
I agree. White Pony is my favorite, but I've gotta say their natural explosive heaviness got the shaft on that record, except on Elite and Korea maybe. That's why the self-titled is perhaps better on the sound point, they researched a special imagery and vibe, just like they did with White Pony, but they kept their heaviness, they actually got heavier than ever.
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Mar 30, 2011, 12:05 AM
I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off :) I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.Brilliant statement Billy. It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands. That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands.
If i'm not mistaken, after S/t was also when Chino stopped doing drugs.
Terry Date is needed to make better albums.
He said he experimented with speed during the making of SNW in an interview.
My response to that is all there albums stand on there own..and diamond eyes being the heaviest album only to assure that more is coming...see how there gonna top this is exciting...I can only imagine how Eros is gonna sound..:)
Quote from: Inkblades on Mar 30, 2011, 03:25 AM
He said he experimented with speed during the making of SNW in an interview.
and bob ezrin found a meth pipe at one point, which is the reason the demos never materialized
right? i thought it was something like that.
Quote from: people_r_fake529 on Mar 30, 2011, 02:01 AM
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Mar 30, 2011, 12:05 AM
I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off :) I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
Brilliant statement Billy. It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands. That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands.
yep, what a wonderful statement. I see that most people still choose White Pony over s/t. I can definitely understand you, it's all subjective. Just for me White Pony is still, incomplete. Plus, I always loved the dark dark Deftones (Fireal, Fist, Lovers, s/t, Knife Party, Riviere, You've Seen the Butcher). I hope they make something THAT dark again. Eros? who knows.
As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career.
Quote from: lostpilot on Mar 30, 2011, 11:04 AM
Quote from: people_r_fake529 on Mar 30, 2011, 02:01 AM
Quote from: BillyNo.9 on Mar 30, 2011, 12:05 AM
I first got into Deftones via Around the fur and It is still by far my favourite album, but I do understand what you mean. ST took a while to grow on me but now it has it's impossible to shake it off :) I think White pony was their peak though, it was the breakthrough. I know the real fans were still going ape shit about self titled when it came out but it seems as if tv megazines etc didnt give a fuck, which I think is pretty cool in a way. To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
To achieve something great without it spilling out into the mainstream along with a ton of crap.
Brilliant statement Billy. It's what I've been trying to say all along and is one of the reasons why I love the Deftones and they are one of my favorite bands. That is one major thing about them that makes them unique and stand out from all of the other bands.
yep, what a wonderful statement. I see that most people still choose White Pony over s/t. I can definitely understand you, it's all subjective. Just for me White Pony is still, incomplete. Plus, I always loved the dark dark Deftones (Fireal, Fist, Lovers, s/t, Knife Party, Riviere, You've Seen the Butcher). I hope they make something THAT dark again. Eros? who knows.
I'd like you to elaborate on White Pony being incomplete. kthanx lol
I dunno about ST being the epitome of their careers, if anything, I sorta feel as though it followed a formula. Like, oh here's a Change mimic, and a Elite clone. Experimental, mellow, 2 agro songs, just like WP. Almost like a complete clone. I wouldn't blame Maverick for trying the same formula since WP was such an epic bottle of win. Kinda like fucking the same girl twice with the 2nd time being lame as fuck, as far as money is involved.
But please don't get me wrong, ST is still a great album.
We all know WP was a huge cock slap to the face of Nu Metal. An awesome cock slap.
But I really wanna point out the drastic change on SNW. Honestly, I feel this album, musically, is amazing. Ezrin really helped them change from their typical 2-4 riff song structures to more expansive territories.
Honestly I cannot pinpoint a high point of their career until I feel they have begun a descent. Then I think I'll be able to answer the question. Hopefully never.
Quote from: MommaBear on Mar 30, 2011, 01:32 PM
As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career.
I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.
Yes, White ony was an awesome cock slap to the face of nu-metal. But do I care about nu-metal? No, I care about the dark and romantic identity of theirs. White Pony is still too anxious for me. Plus, the beginning - I really dislike "Back to School" and what they did with it by the wishes or Warner Bros. And it contains songs like Elite that I cannot enjoy anymore. Not in that musical phase anymore; somehow; but it's entirely my subjective opinion and I find no need to defend my opinion or to destroy yours. Live and let live.
Quote from: Robotsatemygrandma on Mar 30, 2011, 03:38 PM
Quote from: MommaBear on Mar 30, 2011, 01:32 PM
As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career.
I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.
I hesitated to post this because each individual response is going to vary and be a matter of personal preference. I can see the appeal of the crazy, careless, FTW, balls-to-the-wall performances of the earlier years - it's just raw and in-your-face, and I get that. On the flip side, I also appreciate the current trend where Chino hits notes on a consistent basis and isn't whacked out of gourd. I also like the maturity that has occurred wherein they seem to be operating as a whole. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
i wouldnt call white pony as nu-metal..
I mean Digital Bath ?!..
This song is something else..Pink Maggit, Knife prty, rx queen...
ST is really deep,dark and melancolic with awesome riffs..
But White Pony is sooo special and that album made Deftones sound like NOTHING
Quote from: lostpilot on Mar 30, 2011, 03:40 PM
Yes, White ony was an awesome cock slap to the face of nu-metal. But do I care about nu-metal? No, I care about the dark and romantic identity of theirs. White Pony is still too anxious for me. Plus, the beginning - I really dislike "Back to School" and what they did with it by the wishes or Warner Bros. And it contains songs like Elite that I cannot enjoy anymore. Not in that musical phase anymore; somehow; but it's entirely my subjective opinion and I find no need to defend my opinion or to destroy yours. Live and let live.
Lol I was just being cute, no worries I respect your opinion. And I agree with you about the Back to School problem. I only own the Red version and never downloaded Back to School. I was like, "Fuck you Madonna, I ain'ts gunna by dis shit agin in silver!"
But I get it, I can hear the anxious nature of the album, but again it's called White Pony. But I still really love the dark brooding nature they can evoke on Lovers, Fireal/Swords (lol) and Fist. It's sensual and descriptive.
Quote from: Robotsatemygrandma on Mar 30, 2011, 04:14 PM
"Fuck you Madonna, I ain'ts gunna by dis shit agin in silver!"
Hah, this is priceless. FUCK YOU, MADONNA.
Quote from: MommaBear on Mar 30, 2011, 04:02 PM
Quote from: Robotsatemygrandma on Mar 30, 2011, 03:38 PM
Quote from: MommaBear on Mar 30, 2011, 01:32 PM
As far as touring and live performances, they really seem to be on top of their game at this point in their career.
I couldn't disagree more. When I saw them touring between ST and SNW, they seemed not to care at all. Chino was all whacked out and Steph couldn't of given a shit less. Then again I first saw them at Ozzfest 99 and again touring for WP with Glassjaw. Most intense performances I've ever seen from them.
I hesitated to post this because each individual response is going to vary and be a matter of personal preference. I can see the appeal of the crazy, careless, FTW, balls-to-the-wall performances of the earlier years - it's just raw and in-your-face, and I get that. On the flip side, I also appreciate the current trend where Chino hits notes on a consistent basis and isn't whacked out of gourd. I also like the maturity that has occurred wherein they seem to be operating as a whole. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Dude was also forgetting lyrics when I saw them. Then again I think it might of been the last leg of the tour where all you wanna do is be done and go home. It really wasn't enjoyable for me. BUT! When I saw them last year, I was excited. they just started, and you could tell they were hyped and having fun. It was contagious and their performance was just as intense as when I first saw them.
Quote from: lostpilot on Mar 29, 2011, 11:53 PM
Yesterday in a conversation with a close friend who is and was Deftones fan like me we both realized, finally, that self-titled is their masterpiece, their highest point of creativity.
I believe that with this album they have gained their maturity, image, style.
This was also the best choice for the cover art - as for the vines and roses and a skull represents deeply the album's atmosphere and feel. It's dark, it's poetic, it's rather philosophical, it's royal.
Well, but this is my personal belief. Thoughts?
I believe it is too. Regardless of what the band went through at the time or what the other 90% of ppl on here think. My personal favorite
I think it might be Saturday night. i remember hearing Beware for the first time and thinking, Deftones: Nû pinkfloyd. The only problem with that era is that a few mediocre songs and a not so great sound ruined overall's reputation. Oh, and not having Finger of death, dope and the vegetable song on it.
White pony might also be their highest artsy point. but in my point of view, brilliance is seen when they did something really great in a really short amount of time. you need to be really on it to finish writing a record in two months and sounding great from finish to end. So the prize goes for around the fur (diamond eyes recovered that intention, fortunately).
what a confusing post!
Is it the highest point in their careers because S/T is our favourite album, maybe? I bet most people on here who first heard S/T were like "what the fuck is this horseshit!?" To come out and make an album after you've released a masterpiece like White Pony is difficult. And you know it was difficult for the band on a personal level (some will even say creative) because you can hear the angst and emotion in S/T.
We can look at some of the facts for a second: Deftones played London Wembley Arena when touring S/T. A very big venue that only very succesful bands play at. I don't think they played a bigger venue when touring White Pony..? But this could be because A Perfect Circle supported and not because S/T was in fact very popular. Maybe.
Anyway, the highest point in their careers was the release of My Own Summer, the release of Change, the grammy for Elite and their current high wave they are sailing on at the moment. I think they're more popular now than they ever were in the past in my opinion. S/T is my favourite album but I really don't think it's the highest point in their career. Ironically, the making of S/T is probably a time that Deftones would like to try and forget...
For me, in terms of when the 'Tones felt most relative to the general masses (not I hasten to add, to me musically), was White Pony - they were running the race of establishing with the first two albums, and with WP, it felt like there was a global anticipation on a much bigger scale than the previous two - they succeeded on so many levels with that record...branching the sound that had caught so many attentions out to a much wider audience...eclectically much broader than the other stalwarts of the original nu-metal mob back in the day (Korn et al). Personally I took a backwards step from the band for a while when I got S/T - there was a combo of thinking they had lost it, along with just checking out and digging on other bands out there...but despite buying SNW on release, I didnt get into that one either for a long time....just kinda sat on my rack unlistened to after that first couple of trys. Glad to say, Ive got into the both of em big time since then (would go as far to say SNW is my fave of all of their records on the whole), but I gotta say, DE is a pretty close second - it sounds amazing production-wise alone. On the live thing - I must admit I went along apprehensive (lol) to their gig in Glasgow last year, mainly because I was pre-judging their live thing on the b-sides to all the singles back in the day - whiich in all honesty sounded pretty ropey...quality-wise it was the polar opposite, sounding practically record perfect. A very rare breed they be, in terms of a band that seems to continuosly produce records I personally think are great. No mean feat.
I think they have yet to reach it, but it is coming soon I bet.......