Poll
Question:
Which album is better overall?
Option 1: Diamond Eyes
Option 2: Koi No Yokan
Did Koi No Yokan beat its Predecessor?
Or Not?
diamond eyes is better quality memorable songs
Yeah i think i may have jumped the gun with KNY. I think Diamond Eyes, has better songs actually.
They are about even for me.
No it hasnt, and i think it wont either.
Thought you guys all pretty much hated DE and loved KNY?
Probly even..
I still rate Diamond Eyes as one of their worst so I'd Say yeah KNY has beat it.
Diamond Eyes is good. the first 8 songs are great but the final songs really ruined the album for me.
What Happened To You? is a better closer than This Place is Death.
Quote from: sooniletugo on Nov 18, 2012, 01:45 AM
Thought you guys all pretty much hated DE and loved KNY?
After reading a bunch of posts, I got the same feeling. Why are so many people hating on DE?
For me, KNY is by far worse than DE; however, it may be tied with SNW (such a tragic album).
I personally feel that Diamond Eyes is one of their strongest albums. Musically it is a very heavy album and while some may have complaints about the lyrics, Chino's voice sounds amazing. 976-Evil is also incredibly beautiful. KNY is very good and I like it because of how distinct it sounds compared to any other Deftones album, but DE is a monster. DE edges it out by a hair, but KNY has its moments for sure.
DE has some better songs, but KNY is a better complete album......I'm diggin' the intros and outros.
The intro to Leathers is awesome and the outro on Rosemary is one of the highlights of KNY for me. Reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins
KNY > DE
DE: consistently good, but rarely great. There isn't a single song that really stuck out or made me want to go back and listen after the novelty of the album wore off. I can put it on and enjoy it without wanting to skip anything (besides perhaps Beauty School), but rarely do, because there are a lot of records I'd simply rather be listening to. Sorry, but while I like DE, it lacks a Passenger/Change, WGTB, or Rosemary to hold it all together and close the deal.
KNY: several songs that I can actually get excited about and contend for my favorite tracks of the year. More variety. More melody. Yes, there are a couple low points, but I'd rather that than 11 tracks of relative mediocrity.
The production is fairly shaky on both, which holds them back a bit from their full potential.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 18, 2012, 05:34 AM
KNY > DE
DE: consistently good, but rarely great. There isn't a single song that really stuck out[.]
I can see where you're coming from, though, there are 2 or 3 tracks I do come back to here and there. Aside from the more melodic, almost "catchy," sound of KNY than DE, some of the riffs on KNY I think are some of the heaviest and most brutal of all their records. I don't feel it's quite the White Pony 2 as Chino made it out to be in some interviews, though I can hear WP in there, but also some of their other previous records. Sergio's influence on the sound I think is also more evident on KNY, which can take the sound further from something akin to WP. Although it is most definitely a better record than DE, I think that's because it takes certain aspects of DE and melds them with certain aspects of WP as well some aspects of the S/T album left alone by DE in its approach. That's just what I think anyway.
To me it's really difficult to rank Deftones albums. They have yet to disappoint me. This was my old list though:
1. White Pony
2 & 3 (they switch regularly). Saturday Night Wrist and Deftones
4. Around the Fur
5. Diamond Eyes
6. Adrenaline
If Koi No Yokan isn't my favorite release so far, it'll at least take second place. For me it easily tops Diamond Eyes.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 18, 2012, 05:34 AM
KNY > DE
DE: consistently good, but rarely great. There isn't a single song that really stuck out or made me want to go back and listen after the novelty of the album wore off. I can put it on and enjoy it without wanting to skip anything (besides perhaps Beauty School), but rarely do, because there are a lot of records I'd simply rather be listening to. Sorry, but while I like DE, it lacks a Passenger/Change, WGTB, or Rosemary to hold it all together and close the deal.
KNY: several songs that I can actually get excited about and contend for my favorite tracks of the year. More variety. More melody. Yes, there are a couple low points, but I'd rather that than 11 tracks of relative mediocrity.
The production is fairly shaky on both, which holds them back a bit from their full potential.
i agree with yo, maybe de is a bit more consistent, but i dont know, i just fell this record has more epics moments , ..overall feels better
I'll definitely have to go with KNY on this one, and it's steady climbing up my list the more I listen to it... More than I expected it to, even.
As previously mentioned, it's definitely more of a complete album compared to DE. Everything flows together nicely, and considering what they've done thus far I couldn't have expected any better from them. I am immensely pleased and surprised at the growing power of KNY, whereas DE for me reached its peak on the first few listens.
de is a throwaway album and kny proves it
if kny came out two years ago instead of de i would've enjoyed it more
Quote from: Penicks on Nov 19, 2012, 07:40 AM
de is a throwaway album and kny proves it
if kny came out two years ago instead of de i would've enjoyed it more
You would of enjoyed the music on KNY more, if you hadn't heard DE first? lol
KNY is some of the best work of everything they have ever put out so far
includes aggroFURponyskullwristEYES all that shit
I would probably say it's their most cohesive album DE was cohesive aswell the but KNY just has better songs DE had a few highlights for me the rest aren't bad there just average KNY has lots of good songs for me atleast i struggled to pick a top 3 as there were 8 or 9 contenders each song has someone special i like about it DE just lacked that.
if I HAD TO RANK...like if i had to actually answer it or i was gonna die or some shit ,DE ranks lowest on the totem pole for my taste..
solid album though.
anyone that compares a bands progression from album to album usually ends up :(
this album (KNY) is up there with all their best to me ..
not the album as a whole.. but what they were able to do with the sound/ sounds they have previously created in past albums..
I easily see some of the songs on this album fitting into some of the albums that are considered classics by them.
even though the recording process changes as years go by
I almost like Diamond Eyes more just because its chronologically closer to the old school Deftones... But to be honest... I dont find too much difference between DE and KNY. KNY just sounds like a more outlandish Diamond Eyes, you say experimental, I say a little excessive. A good experimental Deftones song is "Pink Maggit", "Anniversary of an Uninteresting Event", "Cherry Waves", even "Needles and Pins" for that bad ass opening riff, or the verse to "Prince". "Whatever Happened To You?", the opening riff to "Romantic Dreams", and "Goon Squad"s weird chorus don't work well as experiments.
now that the dust's begun to settle, I think I prefer DE after all. it has a certain rawness to it that KNY lacks, and better songs simply.
Your good right not to state a reason, but not even the devil would be convinced by "better songs simply"
Quote from: black coffee on Nov 19, 2012, 01:47 PM
Your good right not to state a reason, but not even the devil would be convinced by "better songs simply"
I thought long and hard on how to explain why I like the material on DE better, but then I thought that it doesn't really matter. maybe 4 or 5 people will read it and won't really care. at most, someone will simply state that I'm wrong and KNY has better songs.
so I will settle with more great songs. KNY has pretty much only great songs and I have a hard time picking favorites, while on DE jaöf the songs are great and half the songs are only good. but the great songs on DE are in my opinion better than the great songs on KNY. that's how I feel right now, but I'm fully aware that this might be because I'm a little sick of KNY after listening too much to it lately.
These are the two albums that I like least.
Although, they are very different, I have a slight preference for KNY.
Definitely Koi No Yokan!
im cool with people loving KNY better than DE. everybody to its own. i still think DE is a more cohesive album (wich it doesnt necessarily means its a "better" album) but to my gut, it is.
though a 3 to 1 in favor of KNY, its kinda ridiculous.
for some reason im getting the feel that the more younger deftones fans gravitate to KNY, and the more seasoned fans are more reluctant to rush for one or another.
years of deftones wisdom counts.
DE will prove itself with time.
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 19, 2012, 03:40 PM
im cool with people loving KNY better than DE. everybody to its own. i still think DE is a more cohesive album (wich it doesnt necessarily means its a "better" album) but to my gut, it is.
though a 3 to 1 in favor of KNY, its kinda ridiculous.
for some reason im getting the feel that the more younger deftones fans gravitate to KNY, and the more seasoned fans are more reluctant to rush for one or another.
years of deftones wisdom counts.
DE will prove itself with time.
I think a lot of it has to do with KNY being new, and still more exciting to a lot of fans.
to be honest, the albums are so different that I find it hard to compare them. both have certain qualities that the other lacks.
to me, DE sounds a lot more classic Deftones actually. we've been through this discussion before, but I stand by my opinion that DE has more in common with both ATF and WP than s/t and SNW ever did.
I prefer Diamond Eyes.
I like both but KNY is a bit more magical
Quote from: Cool Mountaineer on Nov 19, 2012, 08:06 AM
anyone that compares a bands progression from album to album usually ends up :(
:) Word
fuck, i cant decide, maybe diamond eyes for the tours and shows with various setlists and the non-existence of that fucking red frannel shirt.
Too early for me to vote on this, I think DE is one of their best albums. However I do really like KNY so far, but I've gotta let it simmer a bit longer. I can say with certainty that I like it more than SNW though :)
Quote from: Cool Mountaineer on Nov 19, 2012, 08:06 AM
if I HAD TO RANK...like if i had to actually answer it or i was gonna die or some shit ,DE ranks lowest on the totem pole for my taste..
solid album though.
anyone that compares a bands progression from album to album usually ends up :(
this album (KNY) is up there with all their best to me ..
not the album as a whole.. but what they were able to do with the sound/ sounds they have previously created in past albums..
I easily see some of the songs on this album fitting into some of the albums that are considered classics by them.
even though the recording process changes as years go by
Mah nigga. What are your top songs off the album?
I just really feel like DE was their weakest effort to date, still ok as an album but not so much as a Deftones album when compared to anything else they've done. This being said, it's not hard to go with KNY.
Close call, but Diamond Eyes.
Unsure. Too soon to say.
KNY for me.
I went back and listened to DE this weekend after listening to KNY straight since it leaked and DE sounded really fresh but lacked something. That something being atmosphere and progression which KNY definitely has plenty of.
KNY
KNY for me. theres about 3 songs i still listen to from DE Sextape Royal and Rocket Skates. I wasn't a big fan of Chinos vocals on that Album. really the whole tone of that album.
Quote from: TheyCallMeP on Nov 18, 2012, 05:07 AM
Musically it is a very heavy album and while some may have complaints about the lyrics, Chino's voice sounds amazing. 976-Evil is also incredibly beautiful. KNY is very good and I like it because of how distinct it sounds compared to any other Deftones album, but DE is a monster. DE edges it out by a hair, but KNY has its moments for sure.
You're always going to have that contingent of fickle Deftones fans who insist on shitting on each and every new record the band releases. Everyone's an expert on how lyrics should be written, guitar tones should sound, drums should be slapped, vocals should be sung, etc. This backlash is common amongst fanbases of EVERY band or musician in the world.
You says KNY has its moments. I say KNY is a moment. One long, beautiful moment that I don't mind repeating time and time again. You say DE is better, but I disagree. One thing is for sure: we both love DE regardless. The only opinion that really matters in life is your own.
The people complaining about KNY's sound or lack of dynamics/screaming/heaviness are the same people who will never be satisfied with anything the band releases, and should probably just stick to something far less challenging and formulaic, like Linkin Park, Staind, Godsmack, System of a Down, etc.
Listened to Diamond Eyes today after a long break.
It's definitely the stronger album of the two.
I played Diamond Eyes into the ground before it came out - I was besotted with it, but I still prefer Koi No Yokan, simply because everyone involved is a lot more evident on it. I found Sergio's bass pretty reserved on DE. I still actually struggle to pick it out. He probably didn't wanna step on any toes, so I can understand that, but it's the only reason I've got for choosing one over the other.
I LOVED Diamond Eyes but I think Koi No Yokan is better. That being said the order of the songs is wrong.
Quote from: shine down unshy on Nov 19, 2012, 07:49 PM
Mah nigga. What are your top songs off the album?
Brother... it really hasn't all marinated with me yet but so far..whats the candy to my ears tongue so far is :
Entombed
Goon
What Happened
( and Swerve is such an awesome opener and Dreams is sick as fuck )
some of the best they have ever laid down ...
anyone whos a fan of this band and cant see that..GOD BLESS
I love this whole album..
its not a game changer or a mind bender
but it shows a step up from their last effort..
and as a fan of any art we all should respect that
To me DE was another kind of breakthrough for them, like Adrenaline was back then, wining a whole new generation of fans and setting a different tone. KNY is doing the job ATF did at the time, which is surfing on that success and confirming the tone of the previous album with improvement -in a maybe less obvious way though.
Could the next album be -quality-wise- the WP of the "Vega-era" ? We'll see.
I'm probably just fantasizing over here. A man can dream.
Quote from: Gee on Nov 23, 2012, 02:24 PM
To me DE was another kind of breakthrough for them, like Adrenaline was back then, wining a whole new generation of fans and setting a different tone. KNY is doing the job ATF did at the time, which is surfing on that success and confirming the tone of the previous album with improvement -in a maybe less obvious way though.
Could the next album be -quality-wise- the WP of the "Vega-era" ? We'll see.
I'm probably just fantasizing over here. A man can dream.
nice analogy...
though i think you nailed the "less-obviouness" of KNY...ATF was a straight up progression. (quality, arrengments, subtleness, etc)
edit: i just listened to the insturmentals of DE once more, and man... DE is so much more than KNY...there is very little chance this will change, to my eyes at list.
dont get me wrong though, i appreciative of the fact that we have the two in such short period of time. i love it. but in the long run...DE will get the place it deserves fosho.
KNY. More complex and interesting compared to DE.
I did like DE, for sure, but it's too straightforward to suffer the comparison with KNY imo.
Quote from: Cool Mountaineer on Nov 23, 2012, 09:25 AM
Quote from: shine down unshy on Nov 19, 2012, 07:49 PM
Mah nigga. What are your top songs off the album?
Brother... it really hasn't all marinated with me yet but so far..whats the candy to my ears tongue so far is :
Entombed
Goon
What Happened
( and Swerve is such an awesome opener and Dreams is sick as fuck )
some of the best they have ever laid down ...
anyone whos a fan of this band and cant see that..GOD BLESS
I love this whole album..
its not a game changer or a mind bender
but it shows a step up from their last effort..
and as a fan of any art we all should respect that
I completely agree. I had my doubts about this record before it came out... DE wasn't my favorite although I still really enjoy. KNY is a great uplifting record but still dark and passionate at the same time. And seeing 2 shows in the last the week I can confidently say that the new songs are incredible live. Seeing Rosemary live is a moving experience.
DIAMOND EYES WAS JUST A DEMO FOR KOI NO YOKAN
kny. yes de has songs like royal,prince,risk that are great, but it also have catastrophes like beauty scool, sextape and rocket skates, songs that irritate the shit out of me. the songs on kny doesn't have those suck hard songs that drag the record down, it's more consistent and i like that
Quote from: from_musings on Nov 26, 2012, 11:29 AM
kny. yes de has songs like royal,prince,risk that are great, but it also have catastrophes like beauty scool, sextape and rocket skates, songs that irritate the shit out of me. the songs on kny doesn't have those suck hard songs that drag the record down, it's more consistent and i like that
Shitttt man i think rocket skates is one of their best tracks. The melodies in the chorus i think are up there with the best. Each to their own.
Koi No Yokan was in my opinion a really really good album, but too me it just can't compare with Diamond Eyes.
THE KOI NO YOKAN
Koi No Yokan, Diamond Eyes sucks. But between these two an the previous albums, the previous albums.
Obviously Diamond Eyes. It's a pretty consistently good album which KNY is not. KNY is okay. I'm mostly disappointed by it though. Maybe it will grow on me. I don't really see KNY as being close to the standards of what I expect from them. The fact that it was recorded so quickly shows in the lack of staying power of most of the songs.
Quote from: jbmp1390 on Dec 09, 2012, 09:46 PM
Obviously Diamond Eyes. It's a pretty consistently good album which KNY is not. KNY is okay. I'm mostly disappointed by it though. Maybe it will grow on me. I don't really see KNY as being close to the standards of what I expect from them. The fact that it was recorded so quickly shows in the lack of staying power of most of the songs.
Complete opposite for me. KNY seems like a much more mature, evolved and interesting album to me where Diamond Eyes is rather forgettable and lackluster a couple years later. To me there's really no contest whatsoever. KNY trumps DE in every single aspect for me.
I think I dig KNY more now than DE when it first came out. Having said that, KNY doesn't have some of the awesome chugga chugga guitar that is especially unique to Diamond Eyes.
I'll go with Diamond Eyes simply because it had my attention immediately upon release and held it for a long while. My interest in Koi No Yokan is waning and I catch myself trying too hard to really get into it. Maybe my ears just aren't open to it yet. I hope this is the case because it's fucking bumming me out.
there are some really strong tracks on DE I love, but KNY is better from start to finish for me... DE, I skip around
Quote from: Braincleaner on Dec 08, 2012, 05:38 PM
Koi No Yokan was in my opinion a really really good album, but too me it just can't compare with Diamond Eyes.
Same. I personally like the intensity captured on Diamond Eyes, which I found lacking on KNY. I'll take the screams at the end of Royal over Graphic Nature that never seems to go anywhere any day of the week. That's just me though.
Quote from: sing blue silver on Dec 09, 2012, 10:39 PM
Complete opposite for me. KNY seems like a much more mature, evolved and interesting album to me where Diamond Eyes is rather forgettable and lackluster a couple years later. To me there's really no contest whatsoever. KNY trumps DE in every single aspect for me.
Totally agree. I really do like DE alot, and loved it when it came out, but to me the tracks feel quite shallow. It's a very impressive album at first but there's not much to grow with. KNY has a lot more depth and colour to it. They also sound more energised too. I see people mention DE as being more intense and such but I really don't see it. Maybe it's the production, it's way too slick for me.
Also, I've seen a few people hint in various threads that people loving KNY must be 'new' fans, simply because we dare to like something new they release. Bullshit. I've been listening to them for over 12 years, not an OG I know, but far from new. KNY is just a great fucking album to me, THAT is why I love it.
I'll have to say KNY as well. It has the new album thing on its side as well. Tried to listen to Diamond Eyes the other day but only listened to 4 tracks after skipping around. (Royal, You've Seen The Butcher, Rocket Skates, This Place Is Death). Although the DE Instrumentals have been quite rewarding on recent listens.
Quote from: rxjustine on Dec 10, 2012, 03:37 AM
I'll go with Diamond Eyes simply because it had my attention immediately upon release and held it for a long while. My interest in Koi No Yokan is waning and I catch myself trying too hard to really get into it. Maybe my ears just aren't open to it yet. I hope this is the case because it's fucking bumming me out.
This is really how I feel. I just feel so underwhelmed by KNY. And I feel like the above poster said, like I'm trying to like it. I still think it's a great record. Anything the Deftones create is automatically miles ahead of anything else coming out around the same time. That's just a fact to me. However, when I compare it to other Deftones albums I don't love it as much. Not just the album itself, but all the stuff that surrounds it. All the feelings I kind of put into it I guess. I remember when DE came out I was just so excited on so many levels. I'm just not feeling all the feelings I've had with the past albums yet.
Quote from: jbmp1390 on Dec 15, 2012, 07:59 PM
I remember when DE came out I was just so excited on so many levels.
Same here, but it was also because it was following SNW which was overall disappointing to many, even though it grew on quite a lot of us since -me included. DE raised the bar and KNY is not really a
much better album so the excitement is less important -that's anyway how I see it.
However I still feel that KNY is more complex musically than DE, so maybe it'll stand the test of time better.
I prefer the production on KNY. It doesn't have the talents of Terry but I like the sounds that Nick got on this compared to DE. The guitar has plenty of bite and the drums aren't as flat as DE.
Royal > anything on KNY
Koi No Yokan right now for sure.
Quote from: laurapalmer on Dec 15, 2012, 07:46 PM
Although the DE Instrumentals have been quite rewarding on recent listens.
this
There are Instrumentals of Diamond Eyes out there? Damn I should check the Deftones Download and Request thread more often.
You gotta laugh at these assholes who think because they listened to Deftones a few years before others that that makes them experts on their music! All it makes you is an elitist douche bag.
You think you know how lyrics should be written or sung or how the fucking songs should be listed on the album better...THEN GO MAKE YOUR OWN ALBUM!! So i can go on your fan site and talk shit about how you suck.
DE & KNY are BOTH great albums with plenty to offer....I don't care to compare them to each other or WP or ST or ATF or SNW! they are what they are! And that is DEFTONES GOODNESS! The band has grown and their music shows it...I, as a fan, am just glad they are still together after all these years and that they are still making music...GREAT FUCKING MUSIC!!
hearing the shit some of you talk is like people talking shit about "fat Chino"....they all need a good punch in the face and taught some respect.
I would say a true fan would like if not just appreciate all the facets and style's of their music otherwise you're not really a fan of the band but a fan of a few albums they have made, you shouldn't be like I only like it when Stephen plays like this and Chino sings like that Deftones are band that always keeps changing,It's like white pony all over again they know some old fans might not like it but and they know the new style will attract some new fans but end of the day their going to make the music they want to make and feel like making, I'd rather have them be softer than have pseudo heavy Deftones without the sincerity.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Dec 18, 2012, 12:10 AM
I would say a true fan would like if not just appreciate all the facets and style's of their music otherwise you're not really a fan of the band but a fan of a few albums they have made, you shouldn't be like I only like it when Stephen plays like this and Chino sings like that Deftones are band that always keeps changing,It's like white pony all over again they know some old fans might not like it but and they know the new style will attract some new fans but end of the day their going to make the music they want to make and feel like making, I'd rather have them be softer than have pseudo heavy Deftones without the sincerity.
Don't even start with that ''true fan'' bullshit. I love this fucking band. I have for a long time and I always will. Just because some of us are not immediately loving this album JUST BECAUSE THE DEFTONES MADE IT we are somehow not as ''true'' of fans as you? Is it lonely up there in your ivory tower? I don't see why this debate has to constantly come up about how some people are somehow better fans than others.
Settle down with the attitude I think you just missed the point i was trying to convey I probably didn't explain myself well ,I just hate it when people say they love Deftones then go and talk shit anything that's not really heavy which is like half their stuff ,Their not true fans of Deftones as a band but fans of one aspect of Deftones music,If you truly like a band you will enjoy if not respect the music not talk shit about half their catalogue.There's a difference between not liking something and talking complete shit about it. I'm open to a proper discussion about it but I'm not just going to sling insults so you can stop with the attacks.
Let me give you an example - you're from New Zealand, I am from Germany. I bet I've seen the Deftones live more often than you did... but what does that tell about you or me?
The answer is -nothing- whatsoever! Because this comparison was not fair from the beginning. Obviously a band from the USA will visit Europe more often than New Zealand.
So because someone likes every single song, b-side and bootleg it doesn't make them a "better" fan -
Whoever wants to tell you what to do to be worthy ( or decides to rank you as an album fan ) could definitely need some fresh air for a change.
And I believe even if you enjoy something, its your good right to criticize as well. Everything else, be it a Deftones tattoo on your shoulder, autographs from the band on each album cover, tons of merchandise or a wall full of concert tickets - its up to you and no one else.
I'm not saying you have to go for everything but i've seen people talk absolute shit about everything post s/t how can you say you're a huge fan of as band when you hate half their stuff?
KNY>>>>DE
It has more going on. There's still fantastic songs on DE. But KNY just feels more right for me. The imagery, the lyrics, the music.