I just listened to a lot of the Ezrin sessions from Saturday Night Wrist. Then I started thinking how much cool stuff they must have just laying around on a computer somewhere that will never see the light of day. I think it is an absolute tragedy that Lovers never made it on Self Titled. Also from one of Chino's recent interviews he said they scrapped a song that initially was going to be the opener on Gore. I wonder if some of the stuff the band doesn't like or if its the record company? Just sparking conversation while waiting on Gore.
I'm kind of glad that they don't release a ton of b-sides. Knowing how lazy this band is, most of them would likely just piss me off for the unrealized potential of them (Ezrin demos would certainly qualify for this, there were some cool ideas in there but if they were just recorded as is with Chino singing over them, they'd just piss me off). That said, both Teething and Lovers are great songs but I can see why they were left off of their respective albums.
I've always dug the b-sides/outtakes, whether it be the Ezrin Demos, Finger of Death, or even Bumble D. I'm particularly curious on any b-sides laying around from the DE and KNY sessions. It's always great to have insight on the creative evolution of an album through the b-sides/demos themselves. But with the legal stuff(WB taking the original video down) that happened with Smile it doesn't seem right to push for any extra material.
Yeah, there's been a fair amount of cut songs. They evidently wrote some songs after ATF that they deemed as sounding too much like ATF. They wanted to go in another direction, and it showed with White Pony. I think DE had one cut song, KNY had two cut songs and Gore seems to have multiple cut songs. 16 were recorded, but Abe said in an interview they had actually written 20. I'm assuming Chino picked the songs he wanted to add vocals to. Oh, and S/T outtakes are that goofy ass White Women and XO (an instrumental piano piece, if I recall correctly).
And yeah, some of those Ezrin demos (Finger of Death, #5, #9 and #13 come to mind) would have made killer songs and, IMO, were better than some of the songs that ended up on SNW.
Quote from: HooiserBowhunter on Mar 15, 2016, 04:38 AM
I just listened to a lot of the Ezrin sessions from Saturday Night Wrist. Then I started thinking how much cool stuff they must have just laying around on a computer somewhere that will never see the light of day. I think it is an absolute tragedy that Lovers never made it on Self Titled. Also from one of Chino's recent interviews he said they scrapped a song that initially was going to be the opener on Gore. I wonder if some of the stuff the band doesn't like or if its the record company? Just sparking conversation while waiting on Gore.
lovers made it to a cd though, the hexagram cd single. a proper studio version of it exists - you can listen to it as much as you want.
i think not releasing a studio version of buffalo/finger of death is way more irritating and sad.i love that song. there's the real tragedy.
chino thought it had too many parts and didn't flow right though. but what does he know
lovers didnt make in the cd because a matter of time, i was made after the st making process.
Quote from: cvthedrv on Mar 15, 2016, 01:16 PM
lovers didnt make in the cd because a matter of time, i was made after the st making process.
But wasn't "Lovers" the original name of that album? I had heard that the reason for the name change and leaving that song off the album was because it would have made the subject matter too "obvious," or too direct, or something like that.
I could be 100% wrong, but I was told that was the reason.
its good it was left off because it doesn't fit on any album and its good the album wasn't called lovers because thats too obvious for any album to be called.
In what way does Lovers not fit onto the album?
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:12 PM
In what way does Lovers not fit onto the album?
really? listen to it. I love that song, but it sounds like something on a soundtrack or something, which it should've been in reality. It doesn't sound like that album at all, i'm mad i cant buy it on itunes, they should definitely make it more available. When you learn how to listen to albums (albums not just singles or songs) from many artists, you find the great ones know how organize the track list and usually songs are written to be cohesive to the album.
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:20 PM
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:12 PM
In what way does Lovers not fit onto the album?
really? listen to it. I love that song, but it sounds like something on a soundtrack or something, which it should've been in reality. It doesn't sound like that album at all, i'm mad i cant buy it on itunes, they should definitely make it more available. When you learn how to listen to albums (albums not just singles or songs) from many artists, you find the great ones know how organize the track list and usually songs are written to be cohesive to the album.
Don't patronise me. That song does fit in with that album - there's a clear dark and moody feel to it, Chino's vocals are emotional and slightly haunting, the tempo's fairly slow which makes it heavier in terms of tone. What part of that does not fit in with the self-titled record?
because words and descriptions still don't make sounds come together
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:34 PM
because words and descriptions still don't make sounds come together
But the sound totally fits in with that album. So why do you think it doesn't?
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:34 PM
because words and descriptions still don't make sounds come together
But the sound totally fits in with that album. So why do you think it doesn't?
just the simple reason that it sounds like it doesn't belong on any album, its just a good song that stands on its own. and why are people obsessed with stuffing songs on an album, deftones aren't rappers. they make perfect artful pieces that flow from beginning to end in a specific way.
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:41 PM
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:34 PM
because words and descriptions still don't make sounds come together
But the sound totally fits in with that album. So why do you think it doesn't?
just the simple reason that it sounds like it doesn't belong on any album, its just a good song that stands on its own. and why are people obsessed with stuffing songs on an album, deftones aren't rappers. they make perfect artful pieces that flow from beginning to end in a specific way.
I agree and I think Lovers fits in perfectly with the self-titled sound as I explained before you patronised me as if I'd never listened to an album before.
I think Lovers fits perfectly well with the album. In addition to what I said before, part of the reason I heard it was left off was because it sounded too much like Battle-Axe as well. Which did make the album, and thus if it sounds too much like a song that actually did make the album, then it should sound like the album. Sort of an if A = B, and B = C, then A = C kinda thing.
It wasn't that the name "Lovers" was necessarily too cliché, like you've suggested, but rather that it was too direct to the subject matter of the album. You'll notice that every song on the album is about a relationship, about lovers in one way or another. And Chino, from what I understands, doesn't like to be too direct. He doesn't like to say exactly what he means, if you know what I mean.
In this sense the song Lovers fits perfectly, and even in mood in my opinion. I'm not sure how one would think that it doesn't fit with the rest of the album, but you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.
Again, I could be 100% wrong on the reason it was left off. Perhaps someone more "in the know" could clarify, but this is just what I heard.
Chino said they recorded Lovers too late to be included.
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:50 PM
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:41 PM
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
Quote from: Yoi Yes Kokan on Mar 15, 2016, 06:34 PM
because words and descriptions still don't make sounds come together
But the sound totally fits in with that album. So why do you think it doesn't?
just the simple reason that it sounds like it doesn't belong on any album, its just a good song that stands on its own. and why are people obsessed with stuffing songs on an album, deftones aren't rappers. they make perfect artful pieces that flow from beginning to end in a specific way.
I agree and I think Lovers fits in perfectly with the self-titled sound as I explained before you patronised me as if I'd never listened to an album before.
thats fine if you want it on the album, many people around here will agree with that, all you have to do is rip it on a cd and you can place it anywhere you want.
hexagram to moana is just fine though too.
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 07:04 PM
Chino said they recorded Lovers too late to be included.
Can I get a link? I'd like to see that, I've always been interested in why it wasn't included.
I think some of the SNW outtakes were album worthy for example track number 5, track 15 and finger of death.
Just to add from the Diamond Eyes session, is there one song that didn't make the album either.
Were there any b-sides from the Koi no Yokan sessions?
Quote from: LG95 on Mar 15, 2016, 07:04 PM
Chino said they recorded Lovers too late to be included.
yeah i've read that too. also,in an interview with abe years ago, he got asked about why lovers didn't make it. he was like "huh? lovers? ah, you mean "kevin sorbo"? (working title) he didn't even know it was named lovers after the release.
Maybe I'm conflating the reason for the name change from Lovers to Deftones with the reason for leaving the song Lovers off the album. Perhaps they changed the name for reasons I described above, and later recorded a song which they then named Lovers as homage to the original title for the album? Pretty sure I heard something about Chino wanting the name changed because it was too direct.
Lovers is a awesome track but it didn't fit with the track list. I wished at first that it was on there instead of Lucky You. I grew to love that song and eventually the way the whole album flowed. It was a good decision on their part. the mix isn't that good also when compared to the songs on the album.
I don't know I am with the school of thought that Lovers would fit into Self Titled beautifully. I also saw a video from the eros sessions where Abe, Stephen, and Chi are jamming to what sounds like Finger of Death. I could not really tell though if it was or not.
If Lovers were finished it would be great on S/T. Fits the mood perfectly.
I've always been bummed "Fingers Of Death" was never a song included on Saturday Night Wrist. The demo is awesome in my opinion, and that riff is such a classic heavy Deftones riff. Definitely could have swapped it out for "Mein" or something. "Bumble D" would also be cool to see a studio version of.
please please, would be nice on the adrenaline album.
Didn't Chino recently say that a song that was left off of Gore cause it didn't fit in the tracklisting was his favourite song from the sessions? I don't get why they never release these songs at all. I wish they'd do a new B-sides collection. But seems like they are intent on looking forward and not keen on putting out B-sides anymore. KNY was the first album where there was no b-sides or acoustic versions, covers etc.
Quote from: sooniletugo on Mar 16, 2016, 04:13 AM
Didn't Chino recently say that a song that was left off of Gore cause it didn't fit in the tracklisting was his favourite song from the sessions? I don't get why they never release these songs at all. I wish they'd do a new B-sides collection. But seems like they are intent on looking forward and not keen on putting out B-sides anymore. KNY was the first album where there was no b-sides or acoustic versions, covers etc.
that's why that is the poorest album of all, i was very into the idea of listening an elvis or a earth wind and fire cover.
its called crest...out of 16 songs 12 made the cut...theres a interview about it on theprp.com