Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
i don't understand how SNW isn't pushing the envelope?????
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
its SNW not SLW hahaha
SNW and ST , were both more straight forward albums. but far from selling out. they are just catchier.
i think SNW is a step in the right direction
I don't like people like you. no offence, but you can't go around acting like you're TRUE and therefore if you think the've sold out then that's a fact and if we try to argue that they haven't, you will just consider us not as big fans as you are. right?
well, here's my opinion anyways... I found s/t to be very uninspired and boring, and almost got the feeling that they were trying to write a hit record (Needles & Pins sounding so much like My Own Summer and both Deathblow and Minerva sounding a lot like Change). but with SNW they really showed us that they can do so much more if they just find the inspiration for it. they've gone where I doubt any of us expected them to go. and they've experimented even further with elements that are typical of them.
if you ask me, this is their best album to date and even though it might be a bit easier for new fans to get into that doesn't mean that they've sold out.
Quote from: one weak on Nov 01, 2006, 02:09 AM
i don't understand how SNW isn't pushing the envelope?????
word.
deftones HAVE NOT sold out. writing more applicable songs is not an easy task. the new record rules. i've heard a bunch of people complaining that they've changed their sound again completely and now i'm hearing that they've found a sound and stuck with it? more proof that u can't please everyone.
OK let me explain a bit further...
Sold out was a dumb subject...it was the first thing that came to my mind. i meant to say "have they run out of ideas"
SNW didn't move me. there is nothing ground breaking on it. The songs are good, but, for me, every other album was just dribbling creative juices. And this album just feels like they are going through the paces.
To put it bluntly...I think they are content. They have nothing left to prove musically anymore!
The first four albums, you could FEEL them playing the songs!
So don't cry if you disagree (but don't say nothing). I quit this board a while ago (it just turned plain boring), but was so dissapointed with the CD, I had to come back. I want people to prove me worng...but have an opinion please...
And Aenemic...i really don't consider myself a TRUE fan...no one is! i said that to save time. You said what I wanted people to say in this topic...your opinion! You are still an egg though...no offence
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:26 AM
OK let me explain a bit further...
Sold out was a dumb subject...it was the first thing that came to my mind. i meant to say "have they run out of ideas"
SNW didn't move me. there is nothing ground breaking on it. The songs are good, but, for me, every other album was just dribbling creative juices. And this album just feels like they are going through the paces.
To put it bluntly...I think they are content. They have nothing left to prove musically anymore!
The first four albums, you could FEEL them playing the songs!
So don't cry if you disagree (but don't say anything). I quite this board a while ago (it just turned plain boring), but was so dissapointed with the CD, I had to come back.
And Aenemic...i really don't consider myself a TRUE fan...no one is! i said that to save time. You said what I wanted people to say in this topic...your opinion! You are still an egg though...no offence
well that's TOTALLY different than selling out... fair enough. i guess that's a matter of opinion.
nah, you're the egg sir.
Quote from: aenemic on Nov 01, 2006, 02:28 AM
nah, you're the egg sir.
Im sorry, I haven't been here in ages and forget how 'sensitive' you are
uhuh.
Ok. I said I my 2c.
over and Out!
btw....go listen to Tension the wire (from New Zealand)
peace, hate and split wrists
haha, wow... talk about sensitive...
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:26 AM
To put it bluntly...I think they are content. They have nothing left to prove musically anymore!
Exactly. THEY are content. They make the music. They do whatever they want. And you're right, they have nothing to prove so why should they try and be like the left-behind child screaming, "Look at me! look at me!" GET OVER IT YOU GUYS.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Nov 01, 2006, 02:12 AM
SNW and ST , were both more straight forward albums. but far from selling out. they are just catchier.
i think SNW is a step in the right direction
deftones are only getting better
I say everyone should stop bitching about SNW if you dont like it then dont listen to it anymore you still have a handfull of other deftones cds to listn to plus if deftones made another WP that shit would get old quick
I know what kind of person you are. You're one of those people who loves to be a fan of something from the very beginning. You think that that somehow makes you a better fan. You only like stuff that's unpopular and unknown. The minute that becomes slightly known and it's out of your own private little bubble, you stop liking it and move on to the next obscure thing. The album is great. The Deftones haven't sold out.
your right man so fucking what if more people listen to them now it all matters on how the music affects you and if you like it or not.
I see some of these songs as being a little more tame than what they have put out in the past, but there is genuine progression here in most of the songs that are far from qualifying as "sold out".
Instead of sounding poppy or mainstream, it just sounds like they got their shit together and wrote some well thought out songs. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is where I'm still a little lost.
i dont know whats wrong with ppl who think they've run out of ideas, maybe u guys didnt listen to the record properly. the change in sound alone is an idea, the way the vocals came out was an idea, the "genre" of the album was an idea, usin and instrumental was an idea..so the deftoens are still creative and still rockin!
yeah, honestly, you say you are an original fan yet you ride on them for making an album completely different than the original 2 albums. hell, its different than the last 4 albums. how can you change so successfully into a new sound and be charged with having no inspiration? could you not say that with more truth if ATF/WP 2 came out instead?
No way, like Chino said it's going to be heavier emotionally.
I love it, i think HITE is my least favorite track.
Kimdracula almost brought a tear to my eye.
They haven't sold out in my opinion, I don't think this music appeals to 13 year old MCR and falloutboy fans, it's not that it's too deep, it's just not poppy enough. I think selling out would be making music like that, maybe i'm wrong.
They've changed, and it's morbidly obvious, and fucking great. It honestly feels like they put uber amounts of work into it.
I find few loose points in it, i do think Riviere was kind of a weak ending, but the lyrics to it were a great ending, i just would have liked a different arrangement of parts.
bottomline it's really good... they didn't sell out.
SNW is different, fresh, new but still deftonish. it's a step in a new direction and there is no doubt about that. i love it. but of course, this is just one mans opinion.
Dear anyone who doesnt like SNW,
Give it up some time to grow on you.
Sincerely, Inkblades
this album is pure sex.
first of all...this album explores ALL of their sides. From moody rock to heavy. its more of an expansion of what theyve been able to do. Also Im tired of people saying that this album is weak cause it follows the pattern of White Pony. Take for example the people who compare PC to a weak teenager, or Rapture to a weak Elite. I say, Fuck you. The songs themselves are completely different. The reason the deftones do this is because they love to experiment, but they dont want to be fucking stupid. Okay, so lets just make a country deftones song. Im sure all of you 'experimental' lovers will be in for this, as 'true' fans and such. "If deftones doesnt keep changing their genre of music then they are sellouts." Thats the dumbest notion ive ever heard in my life.
The deftones have experimented vastly within their genre. And this album just takes it up a notch within each sound theyve produced. Theyve even created a newer sound with that of Mein, in my own opinion. Thats why i think a lot of people have trouble getting into the groove of that song.
This is the problem. Anybody who isn't immediately satisfied with SNW is, by the same token, just as 'little' a fan as anybody who, conversely, does like the album in the eyes of anybody that doesn't.
Personally, I have to agree that it isn't pushing the envelope, so much as it abandoning their sound. The interlude, HITE, Xerces and Pink Cellphone are heavily rooted in Team Sleep, and external influences like Mogwai on the interlude, and therefore have nothing to do with the progression of Deftones' sound. Even parts of other songs like Cherry Waves (chorus) sound like Team Sleep. It's mostly the vocal melodies and guitar lines - not electronics, btw.
Hole In The Earth, Rapture, Beware, Cherry Waves, Combat and Riviere.
Nothing within those songs sounds particularly new. Hole In The Earth is typical, light single material. I'm not knocking it - in all honesty, I think it's maybe the best track on the album in terms of simply being a good song, but it doesn't half sound like Ever. Rapture is Hexagram, ran through WGTB with almost no lyrical effort. Beware is a semi-S/T sounding song, only with ever more prominent synth. Cherry Waves ended up having some simple, Korn sounding synth in the final version, which is just boring. Combat could easily fit onto their previous album, and it's verses are a partner to Hexagram. Riviere, whilst great, is obviously a 'staple' song, so that's nothing new either. The only track which I think is actually pushing anything of Deftones' sound is Rats.
I'd rather have an album made from the demo songs that weren't present on SNW, 'cause they were better tunes - for Deftones songs. Lets just not even talk about Mein. Saturday Night Wrist is alright. I'll listen to it often, no doubt... but no way is it better than the previous four albums, or 'pushing the envelope'. I think people are confusing the fact that it doesn't have the signature sound for a progression. The demos were a progression of their sound. SNW is more like a Deftones/Team Sleep crossover. It's a complete tangent.
Ultimately, I have given it time to grow on me, but it still sounds the same, and I can't finally get into it like I did the last album, because it doesn't have the signature sound on it. If I could get into this album as a Deftones record, I'd rather be doing that right now than posting this. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like a Deftones record, whereas the previous four, as different as they all were, did.
By all means, like it. I'm happy for you if you do, but I cannot shake the fact that this album doesn't sound right to me, and I don't agree that it's a progression at all.
people need to remember that stephen said he took a backseat in writing this record, since he had done most of the writing on the previous ones...this reminds me of when everyone was saying S/T was just WP two...
To Bergerac. You post good opinions, but cant you look over the fact that Team Sleep is part of the deftones. Chino is in Team Sleep. Chino is a fifth of the deftones. ALSO...listen to the Team Sleep songs without Chino on it....ummmm that sounds nothing like a Team Sleep song then. Ultimately, Chino puts deftones influence on Team Sleep...its not the other way around.
With regards to Rats...thats their least pioneering song. It sounds like bands that I hear today in the stupid genre naming bands like thrash bash shit core, or something like that. Dont get me wrong though...Deftones showed them how its done, cause that song isnt gay.
Again with the comparing the songs to past songs. Thats wrong because you can tell how much theyve matured as artists within these songs. And when you say you'd rather have the SNW demo songs on this album because it sounds more particular to deftones' sound...doesnt that just show how you'd rather have the deftones stick to one particular sound, and not experiment?
Just wondering what you think on that.
A FUCKING AWESOME ALBUM! enough said!!!
Quote from: tiger mode on Nov 01, 2006, 05:50 AMTo Bergerac. You post good opinions, but cant you look over the fact that Team Sleep is part of the deftones. Chino is in Team Sleep. Chino is a fifth of the deftones. ALSO...listen to the Team Sleep songs without Chino on it....ummmm that sounds nothing like a Team Sleep song then. Ultimately, Chino puts deftones influence on Team Sleep...its not the other way around.
No, I think Team Sleep should remain completely seperated from Deftones. You wouldn't say that Queens Of The Stone Age were Kyuss, would you? Team Sleep and Deftones are quite obviously different ventures, which is why they're done by mostly different people. Team Sleep are quite obviously a different band to the members of the Deftones themselves, otherwise the other Deftones members wouldn't have gotten annoyed with Chino when he went on tour with them.
Quote from: tiger mode on Nov 01, 2006, 05:50 AMWith regards to Rats...thats their least pioneering song. It sounds like bands that I hear today in the stupid genre naming bands like thrash bash shit core, or something like that. Dont get me wrong though...Deftones showed them how its done, cause that song isnt gay.
Eh? Personally, I always laugh at the Slipknot riff in the intro, and I don't really care for the 'heavy bit' in the middle, because it's fairly redundant and monotonous. It's not random enough for my liking. On the other hand, the chorus of Rats is my favourite part of the album.
Quote from: tiger mode on Nov 01, 2006, 05:50 AMAgain with the comparing the songs to past songs. Thats wrong because you can tell how much theyve matured as artists within these songs. And when you say you'd rather have the SNW demo songs on this album because it sounds more particular to deftones' sound...doesnt that just show how you'd rather have the deftones stick to one particular sound, and not experiment?
Just wondering what you think on that.
The SNW demos aren't really past songs, because they're part of the same album. I think something traumatic has happened to you with regards to this experimentation thing, but uh, I didn't say that I wanted the Deftones to sound the same. I said that the demos sounded like the natural progression, and the new stuff doesn't sound much like them at all. It's just too different. The interlude is one obvious example of this album being tangential to that which came before.
I think it's important that they change their sound, but like I said, all four of the previous albums were different... but the point is they all sounded like they belonged to the same band. The SNW demos sounded like it was going to continue that trend. SNW itself, I don't believe it does continue this trend of experimenting with their sound, so much as it embraces a completely different sound.
first of all...the ezrin demos weren't made into songs for a reason...they're just not that good. And Bergerac talks about wanting to see some of these songs instead of the ones chosen for SNW, but just having a totally different sound doesnt equal progress if the songs themselves aren't good...progression doesn't equal quality
i think SNW might be my favorite...
its really fucking good. i mean. really fucking good. better than i could have ever imagined
it may not be my favorite, but it definately, definately is the album they needed to release
god bless them, this album is gonna give me so many memories.
THE DUDE THAT STARTED THIS TOPIC.. WHAT A FOOL.
THE DEFTONES HAVE NOT SOLD OUT! THAT PISSES ME OFF THAT SOMEONE SAYS THAT..
1.WHEN THEY ARE ON THE POP STATIONS BEING PLAYED CONSTANTLY LIKE FUCKIN NICKELBACK AND SEETHER, THEN THEY'VE SOLD OUT.
2.WHEN YOU TURN ON MTV AND THEY ARE ON THERE AT ALL TIMES AND ON TRL (LIKE MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE.. ECT.) THEN THEY'VE SOLD OUT.
3.WHEN LITTLE TEENY BOPPER GIRLS ARE RIDING AROUND LISTENING TO THEIR MUSIC LIKE ITS JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE.. THEN THEYVE SOLD OUT.
Saturday Night Wrist is a great fucking album, and just because if might not have met your expectations.. doesnt mean they sold out. I had no high expectations for this album. Here's how I felt... they've put out 4 amazing albums that I never get tired of. Why worry if this one's going to be good or bad?
Quote from: siL. on Nov 01, 2006, 06:15 AM
first of all...the ezrin demos weren't made into songs for a reason...they're just not that good. And Bergerac talks about wanting to see some of these songs instead of the ones chosen for SNW, but just having a totally different sound doesnt equal progress if the songs themselves aren't good...progression doesn't equal quality
All the demos are better than anything on SNW.
Quote from: Bergerac on Nov 01, 2006, 07:21 AM
Quote from: siL. on Nov 01, 2006, 06:15 AM
first of all...the ezrin demos weren't made into songs for a reason...they're just not that good. And Bergerac talks about wanting to see some of these songs instead of the ones chosen for SNW, but just having a totally different sound doesnt equal progress if the songs themselves aren't good...progression doesn't equal quality
All the demos are better than anything on SNW.
That sounds just as stupid as the quote you posted.
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
hahahahahah. you say that like 98 was that long ago.
And fuck yeah Deftones are selling out, there wasn't one copy of Saturday night Wrist left when I called my friend at the record store just now. They got all the promo shit I left there too, I'm stoked.
I don't understand how they can sell out? The only way they they'd sell out is by making pure pop songs and would be making albums every 6 months for cash.
Quote from: Bergerac on Nov 01, 2006, 05:39 AM
This is the problem. Anybody who isn't immediately satisfied with SNW is, by the same token, just as 'little' a fan as anybody who, conversely, does like the album in the eyes of anybody that doesn't.
Personally, I have to agree that it isn't pushing the envelope, so much as it abandoning their sound. The interlude, HITE, Xerces and Pink Cellphone are heavily rooted in Team Sleep, and external influences like Mogwai on the interlude, and therefore have nothing to do with the progression of Deftones' sound. Even parts of other songs like Cherry Waves (chorus) sound like Team Sleep. It's mostly the vocal melodies and guitar lines - not electronics, btw.
hahahhaha GODDAMN the people here are so quick to spit at the wall they're slipping on it themselves, and anyone would have to laugh at that.
So if this equation is right...does that mean my radiohead collection is pointless because it sounds like pink floyd?
Quote from: Oldnewtype on Nov 01, 2006, 08:41 AM
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
And fuck yeah Deftones are selling out, there wasn't one copy of Saturday night Wrist left when I called my friend at the record store just now. They got all the promo shit I left there too, I'm stoked.
haha :D
You want to know what I think? If Teamsleep was around during Around the Fur, naysayers would blame Mascara, Be Quiet and Drive (not the pre-Teamsleep version but the regular), and maybe even Damone on Team Sleep. Xerces isn't rooted in Team Sleep, its "rooted" in Frank having a wide hand in the song. Without Frank, Xerces wouldn't song like Xerces. HITE as Team Sleep influenced? (Roll eyes). The Code and Pink Cellphone, I'll totally give you naysayers the benefit of the doubt but I perfer the Code stay a part of the album since it was the Deftones and not Team Sleep. Pink Cellphone on the other hand is an AWESOME song but I do think it's a little out of place and is very Team Sleepish but I can't live with it.
In actuality, what some people are claiming about SNW in comparison to their previous work is what I think about the TeamSleep album in comparison to their demos so I do understand but as I said before, its all about change. Change is good, it just depends on whether its good or bad change.
How is Beware not ground breaking??? I have never heard a song beautiful like that before!
stupid topic.... saturday night wrist is a peace of art. You can hear they put a lot of work in it. And it came out beautifully.
And I don't expect a second SNW after this record. I'm expecting something completely differt. I hope everybody does.
AMEN
Quote from: Oldnewtype on Nov 01, 2006, 08:48 AMhahahhaha GODDAMN the people here are so quick to spit at the wall they're slipping on it themselves, and anyone would have to laugh at that.
So if this equation is right...does that mean my radiohead collection is pointless because it sounds like pink floyd?
Only, like most people here, I've had the album for more than one day. I've had ample time to judge it, and let it sink in. Thus far, it hasn't, no matter how many supposed altruisms you'd like to share. Again, because I'm not overly impressed, and because I have not approached the album with the inane predisposition that 'because it's Deftones, it's good', my opinion is irrelevant to anybody that feels the need to defend the album.
As for your comparison, Chino Moreno is in both bands at the same time, and has brought the influence of one band onto another's record. That's something I imagine not many people would've wanted to see happen, but have had to make do with. I find it hard to believe that you don't see the difference in the two situations, i.e. Radiohead being influenced by other people from years ago. Despite which, yes, I do find it rather lame that one band could sound so much like another, regardless of who it is. After all, everyone remembers the Deftones themselves having to break away from numerous categorisations, like 'Nu Metal', because other bands were striving to sound like them. So how is this any different, or any easier to accept?
Whilst I would consider it pointless based on the fact that Radiohead sound audibly like Pink Floyd, I wouldn't get that far, having already ruled the collection pointless based on the fact that I care for neither Radiohead or Pink Floyd. Regardless, I believe a band should suppress as much influence as possible so that they may find their own way. Deftones were doing that very well thus far.
So, Saturday Night Wrist, sounding half like Team Sleep and half like The Cure, is a disappointment. After all, none of their previous albums suffered from the same disposition, did they? They sounded like themselves. It's one of the benefits of being at the cutting edge, which they aren't with this album. No amount of prominent synth lines are going to change that.
Tracks like the interlude are so blatantly influenced by other bands, that you cannot possibly say that they have anything to do with the sound that the Deftones had used thus far, or that said sound benefits from the new use of influences, when that sound had no audible outside influence before. To ignore the fact that Xerces and others have Team Sleep influence can mean only one of three things: you like the TS influence and have no quarrel, you're stupid, or you're deaf. Either way, it is there, and yes, it is going to be a problem to anybody that wants the Deftones to progress their own sound, which they'd been doing for the first four albums.
Ultimately, if I listen to the record and get a gut reaction either way, it's for a good reason. Whether you like it or you don't, you're right either way. In this instance, the outside influence is acceptable to you, and it isn't to me. Neither of us are wrong, but I feel the need to exaplin why I'm not liking the record, and I haven't gone so far as to say anybody was wrong for, conversely, liking it. What I do think, though, is that some people are ignoring that influence, the Team Sleep sound for example, but it is blatantly there. To me though, that's still just the Team Sleep sound, and it doesn't further the Deftones' own music. It's just there 'cause Chino wanted to play with that sound some more.
I like it.
That's all that matters to me, but you are right, you don't have to
But that is the whole point of art. Nothing is really "new", or someone's "own". The same three categories of stories have been told from the beginning of time, and while some storytellers place their own slant on them, they are ultimately subordinate to those structures. There are a great deal of well known musical artists out there as well as an even greater amount of unknowns. It is almost impossible to say that a sound belongs to anyone. If that is the case I could accuse 85 percent of metal being a blatant rip off of Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath.
Now to the point. Because one person is part of one project does not mean that said person must restrict their ideas to one canvas. Chino likes softer music, electronics in addition to the more aggressive material, The Deftones didn't acquire Frank for simply standing in the back, playing sappy electronic loops over chugging metallic riffs. He's there to contribute to the body of work, and why shouldn't he be able to stake out a larger portion of the musical pie after servicing this band since the days of pre-white pony? If the album was more Stef driven, more guitar based, then most people would probably be content and not even venture to say that Stef is hogging way too much of the limelight. But the moment he takes a back seat many of the uninspired criticisms begin to float to the surface.
The beauty of art, whether it be musical, performance, cinema, visual, are the many avenues for amalgamation, contribution, and exploration. More often than not, that is what creates the greatest pieces that withstand the test of time. Just because someone wrote the original tragedy doesn't mean that it is deplorable for some other bloke to write something in a similar vein. If that were the case the world would only have one museum, one that would never fill, due to the inability for anyone to be guided by past entries.
And to completely answer your entire dissertation with one sentence: Art is influence. If you are not influenced by anything, if you don't feel a drive inside of you, then what is the point if creating anything at all? Many of the finest journeys ever embarked on came from some sort of external or internal influence. Art is explorative and boundless and shouldn't have to be restricted to any set standards, not yours, certainly not mine. The Deftones are artists and they will do what they please. Abe said it best, many years ago, "I know it seems selfish, but we make albums for ourselves". And that my mate, is the farthest thing from selling out. We can choose to love it, or hate it, but that will never contort the passion and intention of the artists themselves.
P.S.
I personally find Saturday Night Wrist to be a compelling work of art. I absolutely adore Abe Cunningham and Chi Cheng. I hope this isn't the final entry in the bands storied twelve year life span.
I dont regret it cause now im not buying it cause it sucks so bad
ffs...pointless
deftones kick ass, who cares about all this blatant bullshit
Hell no, the tones have not sold out. Their not making music for me or you. Their making music for themselves, first and foremost, they dont give a shit what anyone thinks about their music but themselves. That is far from selling out. Plus chino admited that if he has to he will get a job.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Nov 01, 2006, 02:12 AM
SNW and ST , were both more straight forward albums. but far from selling out. they are just catchier.
i think SNW is a step in the right direction
i agree with you..
its like, they're trying different stuff from what they did in their previous records.. so..
i'm ok with it. I did not listen to SNW since i'm waiting the package from amazon. But i was really excited about the 3 songs @ their myspace page.
your opinion on not enjoying or feeling SNW didn't live up to it's potential has nothing to do with the idea of the Deftones "selling out" which in itself is such a overused term that is thrown around so much. You don't see them playing on a Pepsi Blue commercial, so no they haven't sold out and probably never will, they really have stayed true over the years and kudos to them because that is very hard to do these days, take a look around.
Quote from: these hopes fall on Nov 01, 2006, 04:50 PM
your opinion on not enjoying or feeling SNW didn't live up to it's potential has nothing to do with the idea of the Deftones "selling out" which in itself is such a overused term that is thrown around so much. You don't see them playing on a Pepsi Blue commercial, so no they haven't sold out and probably never will, they really have stayed true over the years and kudos to them because that is very hard to do these days, take a look around.
word.
Quote from: Inadia on Nov 01, 2006, 03:04 PMBut that is the whole point of art. Nothing is really "new", or someone's "own". The same three categories of stories have been told from the beginning of time, and while some storytellers place their own slant on them, they are ultimately subordinate to those structures. There are a great deal of well known musical artists out there as well as an even greater amount of unknowns. It is almost impossible to say that a sound belongs to anyone. If that is the case I could accuse 85 percent of metal being a blatant rip off of Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath.
Now to the point. Because one person is part of one project does not mean that said person must restrict their ideas to one canvas. Chino likes softer music, electronics in addition to the more aggressive material, The Deftones didn't acquire Frank for simply standing in the back, playing sappy electronic loops over chugging metallic riffs. He's there to contribute to the body of work, and why shouldn't he be able to stake out a larger portion of the musical pie after servicing this band since the days of pre-white pony? If the album was more Stef driven, more guitar based, then most people would probably be content and not even venture to say that Stef is hogging way too much of the limelight. But the moment he takes a back seat many of the uninspired criticisms begin to float to the surface.
The beauty of art, whether it be musical, performance, cinema, visual, are the many avenues for amalgamation, contribution, and exploration. More often than not, that is what creates the greatest pieces that withstand the test of time. Just because someone wrote the original tragedy doesn't mean that it is deplorable for some other bloke to write something in a similar vein. If that were the case the world would only have one museum, one that would never fill, due to the inability for anyone to be guided by past entries.
And to completely answer your entire dissertation with one sentence: Art is influence. If you are not influenced by anything, if you don't feel a drive inside of you, then what is the point if creating anything at all? Many of the finest journeys ever embarked on came from some sort of external or internal influence. Art is explorative and boundless and shouldn't have to be restricted to any set standards, not yours, certainly not mine. The Deftones are artists and they will do what they please. Abe said it best, many years ago, "I know it seems selfish, but we make albums for ourselves". And that my mate, is the farthest thing from selling out. We can choose to love it, or hate it, but that will never contort the passion and intention of the artists themselves.
When did I say that 'influence' was bad? I said that sounding like other bands is bad. Chino was perfectly capable of bringing out the softer side on White Pony and Deftones [excluding Teenager - seeing as it's technically Team Sleep], and yet the rest of those albums didn't end up sounding like anybody else. I don't know why you are arguing the 'selling out' point with me, because I'm not the thread starter.
To be honest, you're right, I would've
likely been more content with a Stef-written record. Quite simply because it would've had Deftones sounding guitar lines throughout, and if he was writing the music, then the Team Sleep stuff wouldn't be quite so prevalent.
Team Sleep are Team Sleep. As a Deftones fan, I kind of expect Team Sleep stuff to remain within it's own territory. When I buy a Deftones record, I want it to be a Deftones record. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. If Chino wants to do Team Sleep stuff, he can do it in Team Sleep.
That's why Team Sleep aren't the Deftones.
i just think it's funny becuase the band as a whole, not just chino, seems to love this album a lot. they probably don't give two shits if it's team sleep influenced in a lot of ways.
i dont buy into the whole selling out thing. i dont believe in it, writing music is not all about thinking of how people will react or can they sell more albums by writing music that is catchy and will make people buy more of it. theres no way any of the Deftones members are like that i dont think, thats bullshit
I don't think they are selling out I think they are moving with the times. They can't make White Pony over and over. They have to do something different. Shit, they have been around almost 20 years thats longer than most bands they haven't sold out like the one hit wonder bands. They have to keep going!! I think that the new album is BADASS!!!
I only hear two songs on the album that sound kind of like team sleep.. and thats "U,U,D,D,L,R,L,R,A,B,Select,Start" and "Xerces". The instrumental they wrote as a band, and they felt that it captured the moments and the atmostphere when they were up north recording with Bob Ezrin. The rest of the album sounds nothing like team sleep.. I hear alot of Around the Fur mixed with White Pony on this one. It's a bad ass album! It's their best as far as, most well-thoughtout and put together compared to their others.
Why judge the album after only a short time. An album takes ages to finally capture the whole theme/idea/sound etc. Like when i go back to Adrenaline now, i hear something (or should i say focus on a particular part of a song) that really makes the album dig deeper into the way i listen to it and even gives it a different sound.
I listened to S/T again today and i listen to it in a totally different way after hearing SNW.
Ok just in case you haven't figured it out yet bergerac, anytime a member of a band, particularly a vocalist, leaves one band to do another then later returns to the first band, they are inevitably always going to bring those influences back with them. Thats what they've been doing for the past few years, and even though its time to move on its still in our nature to use what we've learned in the past to guide us in the future. Chino brought influences over from Team Sleep, of course, but mainly in just the vocals.
You know what, nevermind. Anyone that says Teenager is technically a Team Sleep song isn't even worth wasting time over. No one else here seems to lack taste.
Bands evolve... deal with it.. Their evolving in a good way.. I love it.. They will always have thier own sound
respect
Quote from: deftoner664 on Nov 01, 2006, 07:38 PM
Bands evolve... deal with it.. Their evolving in a good way.. I love it.. They will always have thier own sound
respect
+++++++++1
fuck this bullshit
"hey i use long words in a correct manner and talk like i know exactly whats goin down in every part of the world in everybodies brains, oh and i am the god of taste.
i know exactly how every band should sound and i can fuckin suck my own dick."
"mgnbgnbkuphfff wahhh its not progressive, blaghghhh it sounds like team sleep, grupfffgh i have to much time on my hands but not enuff dick to play wit"
How fuckin old are you fuckers who talk like u got that broomstick up yo ass.
is yo dick that small that you have to blow holes in everybody elses ships.
Bottom line, if you love deftones then u will love this record, if u have a small dick then u will probably come up on here and try make all the lovers of it feel bad so they will know how u feel.
Bad luck biatches cuz the record is here, its real, its deftones and it kicks ass, and it only continues to make my dick bigga with each listen, so suck it.
(p.s. sorry to all the people who dont understand this but i had to make it readable to the "self-proffesed longworded life masters" on here. you know who u r)
makes me wana spaz fit at the frustraition of your retardedness
ok, so i got that out. U know i dont understand these moaning fuckers cuz is life not a little more than a band making music for a specific fan.
Each of their albums has been like a soundtrack for that time in my life, they have all changed, they all have their own personality and i can feel the change within the individual members to go along with that musical change. I feel that thru their music i know the guys better than spending a year in their pockets.
This is by far a much darker record than ive heard them make before and it fits the uncertainty of the time that is now.
Its a great record and its really up to deftones and how they feel and live that makes each record what it is. Its their choice to make music, and to make this specific music and to take it in whatever direction their hearts desire.
And as for us, we are their followers and their fans, its our job to listen and enjoy with the knowledge that this is the music they chose to give us.
Quote from: Bergerac on Nov 01, 2006, 12:52 PM
I believe a band should suppress as much influence as possible so that they may find their own way.
Being a musician, I have so many mixed feelings about this statement. You go through your whole life listening and hearing music that determines what you will eventually think sounds "good". When you write a song.. you can tell if it sounds "good" to you or not. So, obviously when you write something you think sounds good it is going to sound kinda similar to stuff you like... the important thing being you have a wide variety of influences so you don't get stuck writing the same song over and over. Which, I think is exactly what the deftones have not done.
Also.. earlier you said that they have always been on the cutting edge, not sounding like people who influenced them, but I can remember when adrenaline came out there were people saying deftones were nothing but a Helmet rip off... so no matter what you make.. people will say it sounds like this or that.
Quote from: MxNovaStorm on Nov 01, 2006, 07:46 PM
fuck this bullshit
"hey i use long words in a correct manner and talk like i know exactly whats goin down in every part of the world in everybodies brains, oh and i am the god of taste.
i know exactly how every band should sound and i can fuckin suck my own dick."
"mgnbgnbkuphfff wahhh its not progressive, blaghghhh it sounds like team sleep, grupfffgh i have to much time on my hands but not enuff dick to play wit"
How fuckin old are you fuckers who talk like u got that broomstick up yo ass.
is yo dick that small that you have to blow holes in everybody elses ships.
Bottom line, if you love deftones then u will love this record, if u have a small dick then u will probably come up on here and try make all the lovers of it feel bad so they will know how u feel.
Bad luck biatches cuz the record is here, its real, its deftones and it kicks ass, and it only continues to make my dick bigga with each listen, so suck it.
(p.s. sorry to all the people who dont understand this but i had to make it readable to the "self-proffesed longworded life masters" on here. you know who u r)
makes me wana spaz fit at the frustraition of your retardedness
christ, there's alot of Penis reference in that post.
Quote from: MxNovaStorm on Nov 01, 2006, 07:56 PM
ok, so i got that out. U know i dont understand these moaning fuckers cuz is life not a little more than a band making music for a specific fan.
Each of their albums has been like a soundtrack for that time in my life, they have all changed, they all have their own personality and i can feel the change within the individual members to go along with that musical change. I feel that thru their music i know the guys better than spending a year in their pockets.
This is by far a much darker record than ive heard them make before and it fits the uncertainty of the time that is now.
Its a great record and its really up to deftones and how they feel and live that makes each record what it is. Its their choice to make music, and to make this specific music and to take it in whatever direction their hearts desire.
And as for us, we are their followers and their fans, its our job to listen and enjoy with the knowledge that this is the music they chose to give us.
How many soundtracks do you plan on having?
what can i say, i like dick ;D ;D ;D
They haven't sold a product through any other companies or industries other than music and merch, I don't think they've sold out yet. But I do believe most of this album could've been way better, probably couldve explored the S/T route just a little more. My least favorite of these guys, but atleast they did change somewhat on this record. Just not the change I would've hoped for.
like i said each record has been a soundtrack for that time in my life.
unless i suddenly drop dead its kind of an unlimited thing.
I remember specific things like parties where people got fukt up and i learned something, or the time i got some for the first time, or the first time i smoked weed, all the more clearly with the help of the album i was diggin at the time. It jus so happens that deftones have made records that seem to resemble (at least to me) exactly who i was each time.
Quote from: MxNovaStorm on Nov 01, 2006, 08:19 PM
like i said each record has been a soundtrack for that time in my life.
unless i suddenly drop dead its kind of an unlimited thing.
I remember specific things like parties where people got fukt up and i learned something, or the time i got some for the first time, or the first time i smoked weed, all the more clearly with the help of the album i was diggin at the time. It jus so happens that deftones have made records that seem to resemble (at least to me) exactly who i was each time.
..better explanation...just don't know about this one though(SnW)...This Disc just doesn't "touch" me...haHa
Actually, if you think about it, most colabs they've done with other musicians does make the song more similar to the guest's band's sound. So why is this such an issue now? Max on Headup actually does make it sound similar to Soulfly (Shut the fuck up I know Soulfly was created after the song), and Passenger, as admitted by the band themselves, makes it sound more similar to Tool. So what's the problem with Xerces sounding more like Team Sleep? I mean Rick did co-write the song. He is a guest. Also, PCP, and The Code don't sound like Teamsleep, so I think some of the criticism is unmerited....
someone whos saying that deftones dont sound like anyother band....man thats dumb. Every musician takes influence from a band.
seriously listen to My Bloody Valentine, or The Cure. Aside from that...as much as i love the deftones...You people need to listen to Far, which is a band that influenced DEFTONES. People say ATF was cutting edge, but that album had so much Far influence, and even The Cure on BQAD. Far is actually the cutting edge of that sound i believe. Also, White Pony was really great cause they decided to experiment in the more moody/mellow/haunting/seductive sound. And with Adrenaline...listen to the way he sings....thats so Cure.
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
If you wanna band that changes their style...go listen to KORN! hahaha Deftones do what they do and they do it well. They make music THEY wanna hear, not what some whiney fan wants to hear. Dumbass....
All you guys suck, he only stated his opinion, let him think what he wants. I disagree with you though ltd man... :)
hahah this is becoming a trend...
i have friends who think Tool sold out on 10000 days, people think system of a down sold out, people say Incubus sold out, and now FINALLY the deftones are labelled sell outs. Why can't people just realize, they are making music the way they want to... Steph and abe aren't going to take a survey to see what the average teen's favourite chord progression or time signatures are, they're going to do what they like and do best. Tunes become catchier because they get better at what they do, and learn how to develop the sound they enjoy easier. And afterall , an opinion is an opinion, no two humans on earth will ever interpret something identically, you may think you're on the same page, but in reality, you still take it in completely different. I haven't even heard this record yet cuz ive been so fucking buisy with university, but i can already tell you, deftones didn't sell out, and theyre not making it for you, they made it for themselves, if you dont like it, turn it off, and put on some limp bizkit.
ps. i bet if faith no more was still around, you shits would be calling them sellouts too
Quote from: deathblow on Nov 01, 2006, 10:22 PM
hahah this is becoming a trend...
i have friends who think Tool sold out on 10000 days, people think system of a down sold out, people say Incubus sold out, and now FINALLY the deftones are labelled sell outs. Why can't people just realize, they are making music the way they want to... Steph and abe aren't going to take a survey to see what the average teen's favourite chord progression or time signatures are, they're going to do what they like and do best. Tunes become catchier because they get better at what they do, and learn how to develop the sound they enjoy easier. And afterall , an opinion is an opinion, no two humans on earth will ever interpret something identically, you may think you're on the same page, but in reality, you still take it in completely different. I haven't even heard this record yet cuz ive been so fucking buisy with university, but i can already tell you, deftones didn't sell out, and theyre not making it for you, they made it for themselves, if you dont like it, turn it off, and put on some limp bizkit.
ps. i bet if faith no more was still around, you shits would be calling them sellouts too
word... BEAUTIFUL.
the album sounds like a deftones album.
and a very awesome at that
Saturday Night Wrist is the most original album i've heard. This record sounds completley different than anything they've ever done, I don't hear the same shit they've been doing which was already beautiful on its own. Every track sounds so different from the last, theres so much variety. I don't really care what people think about them selling out, I hope it goes number 1, mainly because they are number 1, secondly because it would be a cool pattern. I really don't think this record will be that big, mainstream wise, I just don't, I do think it will be their most successful though.
Quote from: Bergerac on Nov 01, 2006, 12:52 PM
...based on the fact that I care for neither Radiohead or Pink Floyd. Regardless, I believe a band should suppress as much influence as possible so that they may find their own way. Deftones were doing that very well thus far.
Well, the first part about not caring much for Pink Floyd or Radiohead...well, that actually helped me understand why you think the way you do.
About the second part: You actually think Deftones suppressed their influences? That's too freakin' unbelievable. Have you heard
ANYTHING by Deftones?
The awesome thing about them EMBRACING their influences, is that they actually always add their own sound to it, which makes it Deftones.
But, if you seriously believe that Deftones have suppressed their influences while writing their music, you need to go back and listen...and listen well. Then, you need to go and listen to Pink Floyd and Radiohead.
I saw them in 97...and i don't think they sold out...i just think this album is REALLY bad.
For gods sake!
You guys have gotta lighten up!!!!!
Viper... is my flatmate and I agree with him to a certain extend.
To me...the album just sounds incomplete. there are some wicked riffs and ideas on the Cd...but they just sound half-assed.
Have the Deftones (finally) sold out?
NO.
Quote from: cant EVEN breathe on Nov 01, 2006, 03:09 AM
I say everyone should stop bitching about SNW if you dont like it then dont listen to it anymore you still have a handfull of other deftones cds to listn to plus if deftones made another WP that shit would get old quick
Precisely. Bands are fucking damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If their last two albums were copies of White Pony you'd all be complaining about the band getting lazy and lacking creativity and relying on the success of White Pony and selling out. Instead, they continue to progress with their sound like any self-respecting band would do, and they get fucking hated on for S/T and SNW which are bloody amazing albums. People need to get a frickin' reality check.
Quote from: Juicy Fruit on Nov 07, 2006, 03:56 AM
Quote from: cant EVEN breathe on Nov 01, 2006, 03:09 AM
I say everyone should stop bitching about SNW if you dont like it then dont listen to it anymore you still have a handfull of other deftones cds to listn to plus if deftones made another WP that shit would get old quick
Precisely. Bands are fucking damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If their last two albums were copies of White Pony you'd all be complaining about the band getting lazy and lacking creativity and relying on the success of White Pony and selling out. Instead, they continue to progress with their sound like any self-respecting band would do, and they get fucking hated on for S/T and SNW which are bloody amazing albums. People need to get a frickin' reality check.
word
So true, bands ARE damned if they do, damned if they don't... if you don't like it so what? I don't think any band can do anything without being hated on by somebody.
as some people are saying: if you think they have sold out?, stop listening to them and listen to other music, millions of generes, millions of bands and solo artists, and if you still think they sold out, make your own music and dont sell it.... i guess you would be happy about that... if not, .... kill yourself
Quote from: MxNovaStorm on Nov 01, 2006, 07:46 PM
fuck this bullshit
"hey i use long words in a correct manner and talk like i know exactly whats goin down in every part of the world in everybodies brains, oh and i am the god of taste.
i know exactly how every band should sound and i can fuckin suck my own dick."
"mgnbgnbkuphfff wahhh its not progressive, blaghghhh it sounds like team sleep, grupfffgh i have to much time on my hands but not enuff dick to play wit"
How fuckin old are you fuckers who talk like u got that broomstick up yo ass.
is yo dick that small that you have to blow holes in everybody elses ships.
Bottom line, if you love deftones then u will love this record, if u have a small dick then u will probably come up on here and try make all the lovers of it feel bad so they will know how u feel.
Bad luck biatches cuz the record is here, its real, its deftones and it kicks ass, and it only continues to make my dick bigga with each listen, so suck it.
(p.s. sorry to all the people who dont understand this but i had to make it readable to the "self-proffesed longworded life masters" on here. you know who u r)
makes me wana spaz fit at the frustraition of your retardedness
What an idiot.
I like how you ignored the overall message and just got bent over literacy and alternate opinions.
::)
If you actually read what Bergerac posted... you should realize that Bergerac wasn't complaining at all. Bergerac actually made a good presentation. I don't agree with most of it, but it's very organized and honest. I think the replies to his posts (with a few exceptions) are childish and typical of this message board.
Bergerac was just voicing his opinion on SNW--not putting it down--yet, some of you feel the need to respond in defense of your own opinion(s), as though his opinion was attacking yours.
Wow.
EDIT: The person that started this thread already noted that he did not mean "selling out" to be taken literally and that he was in a hurry. He even changed the "selling out" part and noted what he had intended to post.
Read.
Thanks Sanzen. Karma kick for being open minded.
I'd forgotten about this. I'd just like to say that there's one track that I should've mentioned before to emphasise my point: Buffalo (or FOD).
Ultimately, Buffalo is without doubt the most finished song from that group of demos. It is my firm belief that Buffalo was the best example of where those demos were heading (a sound I, in the end, preferred to SNW) which, and to be honest, I think it's obious that they were.
So, here we have people judging the demos in the same way in which I have judged the final SNW tracks. Yet, and here's the point, after hearing SNW, loads of people here complained... 'where's Buffalo?'. Despite having a completely fresh album to listen to, their initial thoughts were 'where's Buffalo?'.
So I find it hard to believe that anybody would've disliked the album had it turned out to be those songs not used on SNW. The same goes for the possibility of everybody liking the album less had it been those songs, in comparison to the reaction to SNW. All I know, is that I would've liked it more, and I didn't say much beyond that.
Buffalo was the track that everyone wanted, yet Buffalo belongs to those demos. If those demos were all finished versions, I honestly believe it would kick SNW's arse, but that's just me.
I liked Adrenaline when I first heard it, I loved ATF and WP when they came out and I generally see Deftones everytime when their in the UK but when I first heard S/T I hated it and I was really disapointed, does that make me less of a fan?
I really hate it when people use the phrase 'selling out' when they slightly change the style of their music or if their album does really well and gains them new fans, it's not selling out, it's evolving and having some great marketing behind them. Selling out is when a band or artist does something which they have previously been against, for example : Billie Joe from Greenday is an animal loving vegetarian who is a spokes person for PETA, he is currently promoting the cruelty to chickens on farms which supply KFC, but if Greenday were offered a HUGE sum of money by KFC to use one of their tracks in an advert and they accepted and ran off to the hills with their millions then Greenday will be selling out.
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
...i honestly think that they've sold out...
Now observe the name of the poster from the next quote...
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:26 AM
Sold out was a dumb subject...it was the first thing that came to my mind. i meant to say "have they run out of ideas"
Well, would ya' look at that? It's the same person explaining something that most of you have been overlooking. It's amazing what a lil' reading can do these days!
...I had to read this shit again; damn they still haven't played ComBat yet...if anybody thinks they can handle the phrase "sell-out",(whatever that means) check out Incubus...better yet check out the way Brandon sings Idiot Box live now...what a fucking disgrace...sorry
Quote from: ALightOn on Jun 07, 2007, 06:22 PM
...I had to read this shit again; damn they still haven't played ComBat yet...if anybody thinks they can handle the phrase "sell-out",(whatever that means) check out Incubus...better yet check out the way Brandon sings Idiot Box live now...what a fucking disgrace...sorry
Deftones definitely haven't sold out.
The following bands however did: Incubus, Sugar Ray, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Lost Prophets
And some bands just started to suck after a while like Cold or (hed) pe.
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 06:46 PM
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
...maybe that's why Dirk left...just maybe...probably more or less but more on the more side...I think that's right...
Quote from: rainnyx4 on Jun 07, 2007, 06:44 PM
Quote from: ALightOn on Jun 07, 2007, 06:22 PM
...I had to read this shit again; damn they still haven't played ComBat yet...if anybody thinks they can handle the phrase "sell-out",(whatever that means) check out Incubus...better yet check out the way Brandon sings Idiot Box live now...what a fucking disgrace...sorry
Deftones definitely haven't sold out.
The following bands however did: Incubus, Sugar Ray, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Lost Prophets
And some bands just started to suck after a while like Cold or (hed) pe.
...holy shit, how could I forget...IF there is a definition for "sell-out", then there would be no-doubt that Sugar Ray would be the symbol for it (I'll leave Incubus alone, for now) Mark McGratth is the SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you know, that guy Sugar Ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: ALightOn on Jun 07, 2007, 06:48 PM
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 06:46 PM
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
...maybe that's why Dirk left...just maybe...probably more or less but more on the more side...I think that's right...
You're not making any sense.
You're saying Dirk left because Incubus is making music they love and are sincere about it? No.
Dirk left because of musical differences in the band.
OK. Did Deftones Sell-out by releasing Mein as a Single then? They could have released better songs, but have they played it safe (because of Serj being on the song)?
I can't see them ever selling out, but I do think think that they aren't anywhere near being ground-breaking as they originaly were.
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 06:46 PM
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
what a fanboy. Incubus sold out back on make yourself, which is actually my favorite record of theirs. but they sold out, and that anorexic fool brandon boyd modeled for GAP, let me repeat that, brandon boyd modeled for GAP! thats the biggest sellout move in the history of rock n roll.
and if anyone, ANYONE in the buisness is makin music they love and are sincere about it is the DEFTONES.
I think someone needs to lookup two words and compare them:
Sellout
and
Compromise
Quote from: marty on Jun 07, 2007, 08:46 PM
I think someone needs to lookup two words and compare them:
Sellout
and
Compromise
whatever makes you feel intellectual.
both are sins for genuine music of true self expression.
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
i havent heard a deftones song on tv or radio on years. or even any mention of them
so how can u say they sold out
damn this board is mentally draining, peoples opionons are so PCP and far out and retarded i dont know where they find any pleasure in the deftones music at all. its ok if you dont like some of their shit or whatever, but some take it to a level of intellectual retardation and say things that are the complete opposite of the truth.
Oh, do piss off!!!!!
In this day and age, what would you prefer:
being able to LIVE and still play the music you love
or
be true and die broke and hungry.
Its so easy to point the finger when your sitting at your PC, drinking Coke, wearing your Nikes and acting punk.
Also, Fireal1222, read Korys (ltd_vipers) other posts. Personaly, when I hear SNW, it just lacks the fire of their other LPs. For me, ATF was breath-taking. There is so much power to it.
Quote from: marty on Jun 07, 2007, 09:02 PM
Oh, do piss off!!!!!
In this day and age, what would you prefer:
being able to LIVE and still play the music you love
or
be true and die broke and hungry.
Its so easy to point the finger when your sitting at your PC, drinking Coke, wearing your Nikes and acting punk.
Can i get a blowjob with that foreplay?
man, i would definitley prefer to die broke and hungry for somthing i loved, ill die any way i have to if its 4 somthing i love, you just ripped into the heart of my passions, my philosophys, thats why ill make it, thats why all of you fake it, i'm down for death 4 this.
Do you still live with your parents?
Quote from: marty on Jun 07, 2007, 09:26 PM
Do you still live with your parents?
Yeah i just moved back with them after being gone for a year, why what shit are you going to talk? i like having everything paid 4, why not? i lived in shit 4 a year. i was born on a rez and grew up poor then my parents got educations and now im spoiled so what? i know both sides.
I was gonna say that your whole outlook will change once you have to start paying bills.
After 3 months of nothing but potatoes and noodles, you change your outlook.
Quote from: marty on Jun 07, 2007, 09:45 PM
I was gonna say that your whole outlook will change once you have to start paying bills.
After 3 months of nothing but potatoes and noodles, you change your outlook.
yeah i figured and don't worry i've been there and done that, shit me and brooke didn't have a motherfuckin thing, i had to sell all my guitars and amps for us to survive. thats when i realized i was definitley meant to be a singer 2.
Quote from: Black Elvis on Jun 07, 2007, 09:48 PM
shit me and brooke didn't have a motherfuckin thing, i had to sell all my guitars and amps for us to survive.
Well, I hope it was worth it!!!!!
in love, everything is done beyond good and evil. of course it was. realizing your dreams is always worth it.
And look where it got you!
Quote from: marty on Jun 07, 2007, 10:09 PM
And look where it got you!
full of wisdom and notebooks filled with beautiful lines. and oh yeah a band. you don't even have a band anymore and you didn't even get a piece of ass. look where it got you.
i do have a band (two even), knifeParty is on hold cause we have a new bass player and are re-writing all out songs and I've starting recording, so Im pretty busy with that.
And, I've had the same 'piece of ass' for about 10 years now.
thats a shame, i have like 12 wives. they all feed me grapes.
Quote from: Black Elvis on Jun 07, 2007, 08:43 PM
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 06:46 PM
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
what a fanboy. Incubus sold out back on make yourself, which is actually my favorite record of theirs. but they sold out, and that anorexic fool brandon boyd modeled for GAP, let me repeat that, brandon boyd modeled for GAP! thats the biggest sellout move in the history of rock n roll.
and if anyone, ANYONE in the buisness is makin music they love and are sincere about it is the DEFTONES.
Well ofcourse I defend Incubus, they're my favorite band. They never sold out. It would be boring if they made SCIENCE 5 times in a row. They progress as a band and as people. Each of their records are special in their own way, Morning View being me favorite album ever...for many reasons.
And Brandon is anorexic? Haha, he looks pretty normal to me.
And about the Gap commercial; He didn't get ONE dollar for doing it. It was for charity reasons, so don't talk about stuff you know anything about.
No he didn't thats just the lie fans made up to secure there love for their shitty band. Don't buy into lies. anger arises. anger should be a gift.
Haha, it's amazing how much shit you can write in one sentence.
Never ceases to amaze me.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/theisbj17/Spas007.jpg)
Handsome, I know.
what a sweet thing to say about your lover.
cute <3
Quote from: Black Elvis on Jun 07, 2007, 10:36 PM
No he didn't thats just the lie fans made up to secure there love for their shitty band. Don't buy into lies. anger arises. anger should be a gift.
Dude, it is a proven fact that Brandon DID do the commercial for charity!
And I have nothing on Incubus, they still make damn nice music
no they don't.
I've never seen them doing stupid commercials or making ads which make obvious that they've sold out. They're just incredible, and have one of the most unique and interesting sound. Just think things thoroughly before posting your opinion.
Quote from: georgie on Jun 08, 2007, 01:02 AM
I've never seen them doing stupid commercials or making ads which make obvious that they've sold out. They're just incredible, and have one of the most unique and interesting sound. Just think things thoroughly before posting your opinion.
hmmmm:
Back to school (song and video)
be Quiet and Drive Video
Chino has said many times that he was dead against Back to school and the BQAD Video....but they still did it. It has more to do with their label
they just didn't produce those videos the way they wanted 2, its not that big of a deal at all, they werent gonna get any more rich or famous because of it and chino didn't go and model or put his face in every camera.
making money doesnt mean selling out
having a video on mtv doesnt mean selling out
having a song played on the radio doesnt mean selling out
playing a large venue doesnt mean selling out
releasing a bad album doesnt mean selling out
BQAD video is eh, but Back To School (song moreso than video) is definitely a point.
But the thing with Deftones is they happen and move on and redeem themselves. Yeah, they went a direction they didn't want to under label pressure, but that pleased the label/masses and allowed them to do the Back To School Tour, so they make make things work for them in the end.
anyone notice Abe's new snare on this tour?
Quote from: jv_ on Jun 08, 2007, 07:10 AM
anyone notice Abe's new snare on this tour?
No, care to indulge?
Selling out usually means doing well for yourself too, so it's a pointless, misleading phrase in my opinion.
vaginas.
thats all.
just vaginas.
all around
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 07:37 PM
Quote from: ALightOn on Jun 07, 2007, 06:48 PM
Quote from: theis on Jun 07, 2007, 06:46 PM
How the fuck did Incubus sell out?
They make the music they love and are sincere about it.
...maybe that's why Dirk left...just maybe...probably more or less but more on the more side...I think that's right...
You're not making any sense.
You're saying Dirk left because Incubus is making music they love and are sincere about it? No.
Dirk left because of musical differences in the band
MAYBE he left to avoid the shit that is going on now...I never said..."music they love and are sincere about it"...you did; my point about Dirk leaving was he didn't want to get to the point that Incubus is at now, right or wrong,,,man, I forgot about that fucking GaP commercial...
(http://idiotsyncrasies.com/uploaded_images/DocBackToTheFuture-740310.jpg)
Deftones "sold out" is nonsense. I heard HITE a couple of times on FM radio, but that's it. In comparison, I saw "Bored" on MTV about 10-20 times in 1996-97.
Quote from: jv_ on Jun 09, 2007, 05:34 AM
vaginas.
thats all.
just vaginas.
all around
he's had that snare for a while now, n00b.
Quote from: samson simpson on Jun 09, 2007, 07:30 AM
(http://idiotsyncrasies.com/uploaded_images/DocBackToTheFuture-740310.jpg)
Great Scott!
I seen them live for the 21`st time since 11-26-97 in Worcester,Massachusetts last Thursday night and "no" they haven`t sold out.
same old things being discussed about a band. The same happens with almost every band that has some kind of success.
The band have not sold out and have sold out. Just depends on who you speak to.
If you like it, listen to it....
If not, don't.
If you have an opinion it doesn't matter, won't mean shit to most people. Like this message, i know it won't mean anything to alot of people on here.
Although i felt compelled to write it so therefore i'm a hypocrite and this message is pointless!
SHIT
since they've started they keep going backwards if you dont know your history every record is suppose 2 b the next big thing and it never is it always fails in someones perspective. of what it "coulda been." every record is a consicous attempt at not selling out, unconsiously.
and i know ya'll can agree with that cuz theres alot of SNW hate and that brings up another point remember Self Titled and all that hate that got then people start to like it after a while after the fuckin listened to it then they were like yeah well thats pretty badass and theres suppose to be the new comin soon im glad i liked it now cause i understand it and the next one is suppose to be even way more amazing and is gonna sell more copies then white pony and blah blah blah the you hype it and bitch and wait another 3 years then finally love that, then another big dissapointment cause they didnt go mainstream and follow the trends they create so they keep chuggin along as always and whats wrong with that, whats wrong with 12 perfect tracks ever 3 years?
world's longest, idiotic sentence.
the only time deftones flirted with selling out is with back to school, which to me seemed like an attempt to cater to the same 13-17 year olds who were buying up all the shit bizkit and papa roach cd's at the time.
the only way a band can truly sell out is to compromise their musical values in order to reach a wider audience and ultimately become richer for doing so
deftones are very content with the level of fame and success they have reached and are only making music for themselves and the fans at this point in their career, there are no ulterior motives
Even if Deftones released an album of spoon tapping...i'd still buy it.
Same as Metallica...doesn't matter how water-thin they go...I'd still get it
pretty much
Quote from: marty on Jun 12, 2007, 12:47 AM
Even if Deftones released an album of spoon tapping...i'd still buy it.
Same as Metallica...doesn't matter how water-thin they go...I'd still get it
even if chino rammed his cock into your mouth forcefully, you'd still suck it.
The Deftones will only be sold out to me when they bring out a Deftones branded Codpiece.
And even then i'd actually think about buying a Codpiece.
You never know.
Quote from: nineteenpeoplesnames on Jun 13, 2007, 07:27 PM
The Deftones will only be sold out to me when they bring out a Deftones branded Codpiece.
And even then i'd actually think about buying a Codpiece.
You never know.
the Deftones sold out when you first heard them.
Deftones haven't sold out. They change their style because they want to, not because other people tell them to. Speaking of change, has anyone heard the new Korn song? I really don't like it.
Quote from: IN WAVES on Jun 19, 2007, 04:03 AM
Deftones haven't sold out. They change their style because they want to, not because other people tell them to. Speaking of change, has anyone heard the new Korn song? I really don't like it.
...I think you are being kind (about the Korn song)...
they got pretty big in 2000, but it was far from selling out, because they made a record oposite of what was cool then(LB, papa roach, korn, etc), & i think people knew it was a breath of fresh air
Quote from: Hidalgo on Jun 19, 2007, 05:15 PM
they got pretty big in 2000, but it was far from selling out, because they made a record oposite of what was cool then(LB, papa roach, korn, etc), & i think people knew it was a breath of fresh air
yeah, the WP era was their most popular. and speaking about selling out: many ppl worried about the s/t cd when it came out because their music changed too much and didnt sound like the previous album...., but that is in fact the best example that they just didnt WANT to get popular and make music like everyone wants them to make it. they felt like trying something new (like always) and threw out hexagram as a single with lots of fans in the video, the sinlge wasnt successfull, but who gave a fuck?
u know what i mean. some people cry about the deftones not making a popular album that they like from the first listening on instead of letting the music grow on them, other people think that the deftones try to make popular music and the band "sold out".
all the deftones do is music. they do whatever they want to do. they had their chance to get a big mainstream nu-metal band that makes music for 13 year old girls and releases an mtv-unplugged album some years later, but they chose their way as true musicians who make music for the fans instead of making the big money.
thats why they get my respect. they kept it real.
word
and exact
Quote from: no on Jun 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
even if chino rammed his cock into your mouth forcefully, you'd still suck it.
Please believe it.
Quote from: BLUMPKIN on Jun 12, 2007, 12:45 AM
the only time deftones flirted with selling out is with back to school, which to me seemed like an attempt to cater to the same 13-17 year olds who were buying up all the shit bizkit and papa roach cd's at the time.
i love back to school. i don't care what anybody says. its one of my 4 ringtones.
anyway, i dont care if they "sell out" or have "sold out." when they stop making music i like, ill stop listening to the shit they come out with. but i doubt that'll happen.
Quote from: Shaye on Feb 08, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: no on Jun 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
even if chino rammed his cock into your mouth forcefully, you'd still suck it.
Please believe it.
Hell.. I don't think it would have to be done forcefully for "some people" to suck it. (ie... Me and Shaye)
Quote from: White Pwny on Feb 08, 2008, 10:08 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Feb 08, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: no on Jun 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
even if chino rammed his cock into your mouth forcefully, you'd still suck it.
Please believe it.
Hell.. I don't think it would have to be done forcefully for "some people" to suck it. (ie... Me and Shaye)
Exactly. You can't rape the willing. And I am sooooo willing. Haha.
Deftones started to sell out in '94 when they were sponsered by Adidas!!! However, they stay true to their word so they will never become the offical sell out... IHMO
when you sell your ticket, sell you album thats already a sold out
Quote from: deafnotes on Feb 14, 2008, 06:28 AM
when you sell your ticket, sell you album thats already a sold out
:D
R.I.P Deftones 1995-2003 after S/T
No. Deftones couldn't sell out a venue if they tried.
Chino now has, yeah.
Quote from: digital bath on Mar 11, 2014, 08:41 PM
Quote from: Romain on Mar 11, 2014, 08:22 PM
Chino now has, yeah.
and why??
just see an interview and think about all the bullshit that he talks.
Quote from: cvthedrv on Mar 11, 2014, 11:45 PM
Quote from: digital bath on Mar 11, 2014, 08:41 PM
Quote from: Romain on Mar 11, 2014, 08:22 PM
Chino now has, yeah.
and why??
just see an interview and think about all the bullshit that he talks.
Ok that's true, but there are hundreds of interviews and on some point you can't except that he or anybody else always talks "non" bullshit.
And if it's really true, that someone is selling out just because he talks bullshit, half of the active users here would be sold out.
Most interviews aren't done by fans so the questions are all the same hence Chino always gives the same answers, you kind of see his eyes glaze over when he gets asked about how they wrote the albumfor the billionth time watch some more unorthodox interviews like those dunlop ones where the questions are new and you can see him actively getting involved, Also there is a reason why these guys are so well respected by their peers they've managed to stay relevant whilst keeping a unique sound throughout their career just because some of their new stuff is more radio friendly it doesn't mean they've sold out the sonic textures and genres they cover is awesome, yeah they have simple songs like Swerve City but that songs not meant to be complex it's designed to be one of those live bangers thats easy to sing along to and gets the crowd pumping.
Ok. Would you rather they were just not popular at all and that they only toured in california because they weren't noticed very much? Being a successful person does not mean selling out. Wasn't the whole thing with Back to School that they got sooo close to selling out (which is White Pony Era) that they just decided to go and make self-titled which is a record that makes you feel depressed as hell.
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
WTF IS SLW? AND IF YOUR A FAN, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IT'S DEFTONES. NOT THE DEFTONES. AND CALL ME A FANBOY IF YOU LIKE BUT I CAN'T REMMEMBER WHEN ONE OF THE GUYS SAID SOMETHING LIKE "YEAH ME AND MY BAND"THE DEFTONES" NO MOTHERFUCKERS IS JUST DEFTONES. ONE WORD. A BRAND. A GENRE ON THEIR OWN. THATS THE ONE THING I LOVE ABOUT THIS BAND, DEFTONES IS ITS OWN GENRE/SUBGENRE AND STYLE.
IE PEOPLE DONT SAY "THE AUDIOSLAVE" OR - I LIKE "THE RAMMSTEIN". ITS JUST (INSERT BAND HERE)
FUCKIN A- I MEAN HOW MANY OF YOU LIKE "THE CROSSES"? EXACTLY IT IS REALLY ††† !.
AND FINALLY IF YOU THINK THEY HAVE SOLD OUT, COME ON MAN GO BACK TO UNDER YOUR ROCK, IF THEY'VE SOLD OUT THEN THIER RECORD SALES AND SHOW SALES ARE WAY BELOW WHAT THEY NEED TO BE. THEY HAVE NOT "SOLD OUT" - DEFTONES IS AN AQUIRED TASTE YOU EITHER HATE OR LOVE THEM, PEOPLE LIKE YOU , WHO TRY TO STAY IN THE MIDDLE GROUND, NEUTRAL AND AMBIGIOUS TO WHICH ALBUMS YOU LIKE AND DISLIKE ARE NOT FANS, JUST PEOPLE WHO LIKE ROCK MUSIC. NOT THAT THAT IS BAD.
WHEN CHINO STARTS COVERING SHIT LIKE VOLBEAT AND THE OFFSPRING IS WHEN YOU KNOW THEY'VE SOLD OUT. HELL I BET CHINO WOULD RIP HIS OWN VOCAL CHORDS OUT BEFORE DOING ANY OF THAT.
KEFLAM!
Quote from: dictatesofreason on Mar 19, 2014, 03:44 AM
Quote from: ltd_viper on Nov 01, 2006, 02:07 AM
Ok. this is an honest question...there is no punch line at the end!
This is my opinion, so even though Im gonna get 1,000,000 little Chino lovers complaining that Im tone def and that im an egg, but i honestly think that they've sold out/past their use by date/gone to shit
I just want to discuss. they're not pushing the envelope in regards to music, it's like they've found a style that they're comfortable with and haven't moved from it.
I was really dissapointed with SLW...there are some wicked ideas on it, but they weren't explored enough.
Im an original Deftones fan (saw them WWWWWAAAAAAYYYY back in 98 with about 50 other people), so don't bash me or i'll find you and french you!!!!
WTF IS SLW? AND IF YOUR A FAN, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IT'S DEFTONES. NOT THE DEFTONES. AND CALL ME A FANBOY IF YOU LIKE BUT I CAN'T REMMEMBER WHEN ONE OF THE GUYS SAID SOMETHING LIKE "YEAH ME AND MY BAND"THE DEFTONES" NO MOTHERFUCKERS IS JUST DEFTONES. ONE WORD. A BRAND. A GENRE ON THEIR OWN. THATS THE ONE THING I LOVE ABOUT THIS BAND, DEFTONES IS ITS OWN GENRE/SUBGENRE AND STYLE.
IE PEOPLE DONT SAY "THE AUDIOSLAVE" OR - I LIKE "THE RAMMSTEIN". ITS JUST (INSERT BAND HERE)
FUCKIN A- I MEAN HOW MANY OF YOU LIKE "THE CROSSES"? EXACTLY IT IS REALLY ††† !.
AND FINALLY IF YOU THINK THEY HAVE SOLD OUT, COME ON MAN GO BACK TO UNDER YOUR ROCK, IF THEY'VE SOLD OUT THEN THIER RECORD SALES AND SHOW SALES ARE WAY BELOW WHAT THEY NEED TO BE. THEY HAVE NOT "SOLD OUT" - DEFTONES IS AN AQUIRED TASTE YOU EITHER HATE OR LOVE THEM, PEOPLE LIKE YOU , WHO TRY TO STAY IN THE MIDDLE GROUND, NEUTRAL AND AMBIGIOUS TO WHICH ALBUMS YOU LIKE AND DISLIKE ARE NOT FANS, JUST PEOPLE WHO LIKE ROCK MUSIC. NOT THAT THAT IS BAD.
WHEN CHINO STARTS COVERING SHIT LIKE VOLBEAT AND THE OFFSPRING IS WHEN YOU KNOW THEY'VE SOLD OUT. HELL I BET CHINO WOULD RIP HIS OWN VOCAL CHORDS OUT BEFORE DOING ANY OF THAT.
KEFLAM!
deftones covering a volbeat or a the offspring song would be even like a weird joke, but chino recently played with slash, jimi hendrix's foxy lady song, i know jimi is a master of rock but to me that's the weirdest thing in the history of the collabs of chino.