i just read he wants death penalty for child rape.
anyone else thinking this is pretty dumb?
I actually don't really care...
The way I see it is that he wants to appear tough on some points because he fears being regarded as weak on lots of different issues.
Which is indeed pretty dumb.
Regarding the actual fact of death penalty for children rape, I didn't think enough to have a "smart" opinion on it, and don't feel like it right now so...
just on principle i am against harder punishments that are ignoring the system that is producing child abusing fucktards.
its just the easier way to do so. but then. there are elections. he has to say someting popular...
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go. I dont understand some of the things he has been doing lately. He was doing so well riding on his wave of change ( and of course never stating what that change actually would be ) Then lately he was been playing some obvious political games.
this was obviously an attempt to gain support from more conservative voters. He tried to pick a middle ground that no one could disagree is despicable ( child rape ) then throw an ultra conservative punishment at it. I mean you cant even kill child murderers in every state. Now he is calling for the death of child rapist? And its strange because he is so liberal. So obviously he is counting on the liberal vote of America. But so many liberals are against the death penalty all together. It seems that he would loose their vote over this. Not that he would loose them to Mccain but maybe to Barr or Nader. And seeing as how Barr is already predicted to take a large % of votes from Mccain. Obama doesn't need to be losing any himself to a 3rd party. It is just a strange move to me.
As far as how I feel about the actual Death Penalty for child rape. I have to agree with Tarkil. I am not a wise enough man to decide who should die and who should not. But if I was ever going to support something like this. It would have to come with undeniable evidence. The thought of innocent people rotting in Death Row sickens me. Then again, so does child rape. So I dont know. Such a harsh punishment is obviously meant to be a deterrent to prevent the act from ever happening at all. But eventually you will have to enforce it. So I dont know.
Well...... I'm totally for the death penalty. If someone were to hurt my children, If I didn't kill them first,sure...let the state kill them. I would much rather them die and rot in hell than my tax paying dollars feeding that fucker.
If you kill or rape a child. You deserve to die.
"Kill em all... let God sort em out"
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 11:07 AM
i just read he wants death penalty for child rape.
anyone else thinking this is pretty dumb?
Well,what I think is until you have children,you have no idea how much you can love someone. Before children you're pretty self absorbed. But once you have a child,it's like a flip of a switch. You will do whatever physically possible to protect that little being, and become soo protective,you would never imagine yourself being this way before. I really cant compare the level of love you will have,because nothing DOES compare. But once you (if you) ever have children,you will think back to this comment and realize "WOW...I can't believe I said that".
there is no way i want put any human over a moral law.
perhaps i would also kill the rapist or murderer of my child. but then i totally deserve jail because i made a mistake.
I don't believe in death penalties and I never will, mainly for the fact that there will always be that one innocent person who was wrongfully accused.
I do, however, believe in harder punishments. at the same time, Nailec is right in saying that you have to dig deeper to root out the problems that create rapists and murderers.
Quote from: White Pwny on Jun 26, 2008, 03:20 PM
If you kill or rape a child. You deserve to die.
Quote from: aenemic on Jun 26, 2008, 05:27 PM
I don't believe in death penalties and I never will, mainly for the fact that there will always be that one innocent person who was wrongfully accused.
I do, however, believe in harder punishments. at the same time, Nailec is right in saying that you have to dig deeper to root out the problems that create rapists and murderers.
i agree with both these statements. kinda contradictory i know, but as a father if someone hurt my daughter i would be first in line for calling for vengance. at the same time, i could never live with myself if an innocent person was put to death. we as a society definitely need to do a better job of preventing this in the first place.
Obviously I would want the guilty one killed...that's a given. If it were rape,there's probably what,a 99% chance of DNA being left behind. Of course it would be harder to find the guilty one if a child was murdered and there was no evidence. Im talking about guilty,no way around the evidence guilty not "oh,you look like a pervert,I pick you to die!" Like OJ Simpson...that fucker would be dead over 10 years if I had any say.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 11:07 AM
i just read he wants death penalty for child rape.
anyone else thinking this is pretty dumb?
nah, sounds fine by me
I'm sorry but this thread now makes me think you are a child rapist.... :-\
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 11:07 AM
i just read he wants death penalty for child rape.
anyone else thinking this is pretty dumb?
no. he's right. I'd vote Obama.
we should poke their brains with sharp needles. that'll teach em.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
yeah you pretty much missed my point.
its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.
its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.
elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.
killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go.
A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
yeah you pretty much missed my point.
its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.
its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.
elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.
killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.
I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.
What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?
Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:24 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
yeah you pretty much missed my point.
its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.
its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.
elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.
killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.
I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.
What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?
Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.
you just need to compare the background of criminals, see the similarities.
and yeah every kind of crime has its own history. i could imagine that for example murderer didnt happen very often until people noticed that they probabbly wont burn in hell for it.
the history of a specific crime could be an interesing read. also the comparision of crimes thorugh different cultures.
you cant assume that the criminal is actually the main reason for a crime.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:16 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go.
A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.
easy shaye. You dont have to like senator Mccain. But he has lived an extraordinary life of service for our country. I think he deserves a bit more respect than to call him a dimwit.
oh noes, he's an army man. only Jesus can be wiser and more powerful than him. let's lick his ass!
;)
Quote from: aenemic on Jun 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
oh noes, he's an army man. only Jesus can be wiser and more powerful than him. let's lick his ass!
;)
lolz
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Jun 26, 2008, 10:20 PM
Quote from: aenemic on Jun 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
oh noes, he's an army man. only Jesus can be wiser and more powerful than him. let's lick his ass!
;)
lolz
;D
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go. I dont understand some of the things he has been doing lately. He was doing so well riding on his wave of change ( and of course never stating what that change actually would be ) Then lately he was been playing some obvious political games.
this was obviously an attempt to gain support from more conservative voters. He tried to pick a middle ground that no one could disagree is despicable ( child rape ) then throw an ultra conservative punishment at it. I mean you cant even kill child murderers in every state. Now he is calling for the death of child rapist? And its strange because he is so liberal. So obviously he is counting on the liberal vote of America. But so many liberals are against the death penalty all together. It seems that he would loose their vote over this. Not that he would loose them to Mccain but maybe to Barr or Nader. And seeing as how Barr is already predicted to take a large % of votes from Mccain. Obama doesn't need to be losing any himself to a 3rd party. It is just a strange move to me.
As far as how I feel about the actual Death Penalty for child rape. I have to agree with Tarkil. I am not a wise enough man to decide who should die and who should not. But if I was ever going to support something like this. It would have to come with undeniable evidence. The thought of innocent people rotting in Death Row sickens me. Then again, so does child rape. So I dont know. Such a harsh punishment is obviously meant to be a deterrent to prevent the act from ever happening at all. But eventually you will have to enforce it. So I dont know.
yes ive always wondered that too
A CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN
okay. but whats the change barrack.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:16 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go.
A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.
hillary clinton was WAY more qualified than obama.. at least she would have known exactly what she was doing
the only good thing about Barrack is that he is young ( but thats also one of the main bad things about him as president )
experience is huge when it comes to being president.
luckily bush was having other people run the country for him. he was just a face. a face for us to point our fingers at. rather than actually do the obvious thing and held rallies in every major city to have him impeached
our government is what needs the change.. capitalism is a bad thing anymore. it helps rich people get really really rich. and has everyone else work for them
I bet none of you vote
edit: maybe variable
all you have to do is watch the episode of south park. when they are voting for a new school mascot
and the 2 options are a giant douche. and a turd sandwich
thats basically how i feel about our elections
Quote from: Corleone on Jun 27, 2008, 12:28 AM
I bet none of you vote
edit: maybe variable
Umm dear...I've been voting since 1996. (my birthday usually falls on election day,so I was able to vote my senior year of high school)
i dont vote for governor cuz our state's government blows. but president i do vote for. obama's my boy
i think the death sentence thing makes sense for repeat offenders, that's the way it is in a few states. but i'm also all about putting the child rapers in high security prison with the rawest nigs that'll make them feel like children being raped. that option is less cost-effective though.
in regards to obama, i REALLY REALLY REALLY don't think that putting a democrat in office is going to benefit the country at all. Our economy is going down the shitter as it is, and all he's gonna do is increase the size of the government and take even more money out of the private sector, the thing that actually has its existence riding on its ability to do things efficiently, something the government really doesn't have. then the value of the dollar goes down further, and the country is even more in debt. not to mention all the environmental bullshit that he's clearly going to support that's going to inhibit the work of the private sector even more, causing even higher energy prices, because the democrats really just can't wait until we have a viable alternative source of energy that we won't need to subsidize entirely for 20 years to completely forgo trying to make gas cheaper. don't even get me started on al gore.
that said, i don't think i want to vote for mccain either, he seems like a panderer, but not as bad as obama. i also want to vote for bob barr because he ate borat's wife's tit cheese.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 27, 2008, 12:15 AM
our government is what needs the change.. capitalism is a bad thing anymore. it helps rich people get really really rich. and has everyone else work for them
dude capitalism is the shit, it's why our country got so ballin to begin with, and why third world countries are starting to build themselves up (while the jobs created in india and china are notorious for underpayment, they are still jobs that wouldn't have been there if corporations hadn't seen the need for cheap labor, putting more and more money into their economies). i agree that the people out there with ridiculous salaries shouldn't get such exorbitant amounts of money, but if they weren't allowed to, what would be the incentive to be in a business that's run effectively? it's the desire to reach the top that makes people work so hard in this country. but i mean if all we do is tax companies more, they're just going to raise their prices. take for example the cap and trade act that has been proposed (www.nocapandtrade.com). yes, it will benefit the environment, but it will throw our economy down the shitter because energy prices will get so high. i mean companies need their profit margin, they're not just gonna eat the new taxes and be like "oh, it's for the good of the world." the public just needs to buy environmentally friendly products and support environmentally friendly companies, and the others will follow suit eventually, all the while creating more jobs instead of putting more stress on those already giving away a third of their pay to the government. i'm going to stop now, but i'm willing to discuss more if you'd like later.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Jun 27, 2008, 03:56 AM
i think the death sentence thing makes sense for repeat offenders, that's the way it is in a few states. but i'm also all about putting the child rapers in high security prison with the rawest nigs that'll make them feel like children being raped. that option is less cost-effective though.
in regards to obama, i REALLY REALLY REALLY don't think that putting a democrat in office is going to benefit the country at all. Our economy is going down the shitter as it is, and all he's gonna do is increase the size of the government and take even more money out of the private sector, the thing that actually has its existence riding on its ability to do things efficiently, something the government really doesn't have. then the value of the dollar goes down further, and the country is even more in debt. not to mention all the environmental bullshit that he's clearly going to support that's going to inhibit the work of the private sector even more, causing even higher energy prices, because the democrats really just can't wait until we have a viable alternative source of energy that we won't need to subsidize entirely for 20 years to completely forgo trying to make gas cheaper. don't even get me started on al gore.
that said, i don't think i want to vote for mccain either, he seems like a panderer, but not as bad as obama. i also want to vote for bob barr because he ate borat's wife's tit cheese.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 27, 2008, 12:15 AM
our government is what needs the change.. capitalism is a bad thing anymore. it helps rich people get really really rich. and has everyone else work for them
dude capitalism is the shit, it's why our country got so ballin to begin with, and why third world countries are starting to build themselves up (while the jobs created in india and china are notorious for underpayment, they are still jobs that wouldn't have been there if corporations hadn't seen the need for cheap labor, putting more and more money into their economies). i agree that the people out there with ridiculous salaries shouldn't get such exorbitant amounts of money, but if they weren't allowed to, what would be the incentive to be in a business that's run effectively? it's the desire to reach the top that makes people work so hard in this country. but i mean if all we do is tax companies more, they're just going to raise their prices. take for example the cap and trade act that has been proposed (www.nocapandtrade.com). yes, it will benefit the environment, but it will throw our economy down the shitter because energy prices will get so high. i mean companies need their profit margin, they're not just gonna eat the new taxes and be like "oh, it's for the good of the world." the public just needs to buy environmentally friendly products and support environmentally friendly companies, and the others will follow suit eventually, all the while creating more jobs instead of putting more stress on those already giving away a third of their pay to the government. i'm going to stop now, but i'm willing to discuss more if you'd like later.
the guy with a fucking lake and a boat in his backyard is gonna tell me who to vote for
yeah okay
plus you sound like you got all your info from a phone conversation between your dad and a friend that you listened in on
dude i wasn't telling you shit, i was just saying what was important to me, and frankly, i don't think any of the candidates are going to address those issues well. and actually, i think my dad is more liberal than i am. but fuck, man, it's gonna start to get really gay to find a job that's not in the service industry once everybody decides it's too expensive to do business here.
you sound like you got all your info from the dixie chicks
ps you talk about too much government and shit, and a key liberal position is increasing the size of the government and the amount of control it has over people and businesses.
Quote from: aenemic on Jun 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
oh noes, he's an army man. only Jesus can be wiser and more powerful than him. let's lick his ass!
;)
He was a Navy man.
And that is only a small part of his service to the United States. You dont see me spouting childish bull shit about Obama do you? I dont think very highly of him. But I will at least respect the position he is in. And the fact that he is doing what he thinks is right for the country. I respect the fact that these are men (and if Hilary was still in, women ) who are passionate enough to subject themselves to extreme stress and ridicule in order to lead their country in a direction that they whole heartily believe is the best for the future of the United States. I may not support obama, but so far he has accomplished way more with his life than I have. I respect that. And I wont make childish remarks to slander him. As far as im concerned, talk about the issues, but your 2 cents on the candidates themselves is your vote.
Quote from: Variable on Jun 27, 2008, 05:02 AM
Quote from: aenemic on Jun 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
oh noes, he's an army man. only Jesus can be wiser and more powerful than him. let's lick his ass!
;)
He was a Navy man.
And that is only a small part of his service to the United States. You dont see me spouting childish bull shit about Obama do you? I dont think very highly of him. But I will at least respect the position he is in. And the fact that he is doing what he thinks is right for the country. I respect the fact that these are men (and if Hilary was still in, women ) who are passionate enough to subject themselves to extreme stress and ridicule in order to lead their country in a direction that they whole heartily believe is the best for the future of the United States. I may not support obama, but so far he has accomplished way more with his life than I have. I respect that. And I wont make childish remarks to slander him. As far as im concerned, talk about the issues, but your 2 cents on the candidates themselves is your vote.
yeah i agree with that, it's super shitty that people can't just concentrate on the issues :( i mean they're all trying to attack everyone's personal integrity, like we couldn't impeach them if they turned out to be a psycho.
Its because they dont have the first fucking clue what the issues actually are. Or what the candidates actually say about the issues.
here's a little public service from alvarezbassist
www.ontheissues.org
lol. You wouldn't actually expect Americans to take the time to read that would you? Its a long standing tradition to vote for presidents based on their charisma and ability to lie and manipulate. Why ruin a perfectly good and logical tradition?
yeah, intellectualism is totally for pussies
Quote from: Corleone on Jun 27, 2008, 12:28 AM
I bet none of you vote
edit: maybe variable
aw thanks
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 27, 2008, 12:41 AM
all you have to do is watch the episode of south park. when they are voting for a new school mascot
and the 2 options are a giant douche. and a turd sandwich
thats basically how i feel about our elections
I actually disagree. that was true for the past two elections. But I am actually excited about this election. The quality of candidates is way better. I believe these to be genuine men and decent choices for the candidacy. But I guess only time will tell how ignorant I am being.
oh, and yeah hillary is WAY more qualified to be President than Obama. I actually feel bad for her. She has dedicated every year since high school to politics and public service. She was also the first ( and I believe only ) first lady to stay employed after her husband was elected. And even though I pretty much dont see eye to eye with her on anything. I respect the fact that she has been so determined to do what she sees best for the country. Then she gets beat out of an election by some noob that just happens to have really good speaking skills, even though she won the popular vote. What a bitch move by the democrats. They chose who they though had the best chance to beat Mccain instead of who is best for the job.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Jun 27, 2008, 03:56 AM
i think the death sentence thing makes sense for repeat offenders, that's the way it is in a few states. but i'm also all about putting the child rapers in high security prison with the rawest nigs that'll make them feel like children being raped. that option is less cost-effective though.
in regards to obama, i REALLY REALLY REALLY don't think that putting a democrat in office is going to benefit the country at all. Our economy is going down the shitter as it is, and all he's gonna do is increase the size of the government and take even more money out of the private sector, the thing that actually has its existence riding on its ability to do things efficiently, something the government really doesn't have. then the value of the dollar goes down further, and the country is even more in debt. not to mention all the environmental bullshit that he's clearly going to support that's going to inhibit the work of the private sector even more, causing even higher energy prices, because the democrats really just can't wait until we have a viable alternative source of energy that we won't need to subsidize entirely for 20 years to completely forgo trying to make gas cheaper. don't even get me started on al gore.
that said, i don't think i want to vote for mccain either, he seems like a panderer, but not as bad as obama. i also want to vote for bob barr because he ate borat's wife's tit cheese.
Quote from: Fireal1222 on Jun 27, 2008, 12:15 AM
our government is what needs the change.. capitalism is a bad thing anymore. it helps rich people get really really rich. and has everyone else work for them
dude capitalism is the shit, it's why our country got so ballin to begin with, and why third world countries are starting to build themselves up (while the jobs created in india and china are notorious for underpayment, they are still jobs that wouldn't have been there if corporations hadn't seen the need for cheap labor, putting more and more money into their economies). i agree that the people out there with ridiculous salaries shouldn't get such exorbitant amounts of money, but if they weren't allowed to, what would be the incentive to be in a business that's run effectively? it's the desire to reach the top that makes people work so hard in this country. but i mean if all we do is tax companies more, they're just going to raise their prices. take for example the cap and trade act that has been proposed (www.nocapandtrade.com). yes, it will benefit the environment, but it will throw our economy down the shitter because energy prices will get so high. i mean companies need their profit margin, they're not just gonna eat the new taxes and be like "oh, it's for the good of the world." the public just needs to buy environmentally friendly products and support environmentally friendly companies, and the others will follow suit eventually, all the while creating more jobs instead of putting more stress on those already giving away a third of their pay to the government. i'm going to stop now, but i'm willing to discuss more if you'd like later.
finally at least someone understands what is going on.
I find myself agreeing with Republicans more than anyone else. I agree in the smallest possible amount of government. that is a huge point for me, and that is a main platform of the Republicans. Also Republicans are supposed to spend less than democrats. Only problem is that for the past almost 8 years we have had a totally rogue republican administration that really broke a lot of rules. They actually outspent the democrats, that's not supposed to happen. I dont think most people realize that the Bush administration was not a true republican administration. So I can tell that someone has no idea what they are talking about when they say they hate republicans because of Bush
The main point that I dont see eye to eye on with republicans is free trade. I have been called a communist, ultra liberal, socialist ...............you name it, by republicans when I share my thoughts on this. I just dont see any justifiable reason for Americans to be able to send American jobs over seas so that we all pay 1$ less for a cup. Its not right to un employ so many Americans , just for corporate gain. It hurts the economy in the long run. I realize that in the global economy, our corporations have to be able to be competitive. But that's easy. Tax the shit out of any American company that sends jobs over seas ( to pay for all the well fare they are creating ) and tax the shit out of Foreign companies who want to enter our market. Or at least make a substantial tax so that the American corporations still hold ground in America. that's just what I think.
But your right about a democrat being in office right now. Look at obamas health plan proposal. who do you think is going to pay for that shit? You think our gas prices are bad now? wait until the tax alone on a gallon of gas is $5 just so that you have the convenience of walking into a ridiculously crowded doctors office or hospital with a 10 hour wait just for a free bottle of asprin. I mean really, when was the last time a large government program actually worked? Social security? ok. I find it strange that so many liberals support the Democrats. yet at the same time bitch about the government having too much control and power. The democrats are all about telling you how your pay check is best spent for the good of the poor in our country. All about setting up programs that you have to pay for, but may not need. The democrats are all about BIG government. that just doesn't appeal to me.
voting is for slaves.
"Stop pretending! -Freedom is NOT having to choose."
-the greatest poet of our time, yours truly
out of everything that has been said in this thread. Is that really the best you can contribute to seem intelligent? Because it was really pretty pathetic.
variable with the one, two punch again
I only needed the one, then you dropped like a lead weight.
Every time you post, it is just further proof that you have absolutely nothing intelligent to say at all.
Quote from: Variable on Jun 27, 2008, 05:48 AM
tax the shit out of Foreign companies who want to enter our market. Or at least make a substantial tax so that the American corporations still hold ground in America. that's just what I think.
I wish I was not drunk yesterday, and hangovered today so that I could be brave enough to tell you how shitty I think this idea is...
But obviously that's not the case...
Anyway, my ramble would have been about how worldwide the economy was right now... So you cannot aim in the long run for living just with your country... If you put huge taxes for foreign companies to invest in your country, they will do the same, and it will be bad for everyone because no country is able to sustain itself anymore cause everything is so shared and intricated these days.
Just look at the markets man : a house crisis in the US is impacting markets and companies all over the world...
Everything is way too intricated now to come back to the old vision of favoring your own country and fucking the rest of the world...
That allows you to benefit from everything at every time, and is also a way of not putting all your eggs in the same basket : your capital is shared between different countries, different currencies, different activities, and same goes for the others.
Wealth is created from investment and most countries tend not to have money to invest these days. Mostly "old" and developped countries.
Anyway, that's pretty much of a meaningless and useless ramble as I'm completely unbrained today, but maybe I'll develop that one day...
Maybe not though... :)
Yeah I know what you mean man. I was kind of just breaking it down in barney terms to pretty much say that I believe americans should work for american corporations before chinese people do. If a French company wants to sell a product in america, that's fine with me. I was over exaggerating my stance. However I dont think that an American corporation like Nike should be able to set up factories all over china and then sell their product in The States. So a small tax that a Foreign nation would be willing to pay in order to sell their products in a land of the wealthiest consumers in the world, and also help keep american businesses going. I would understand if any other country did the same. Right now the US has the Luxury of being able to grow big businesses without having to ship their products to the foreign market. But if we keep at this rate, we will lose that.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:24 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
yeah you pretty much missed my point.
its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.
its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.
elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.
killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.
I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.
What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?
Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.
i could imagine that for example murderer didnt happen very often until people noticed that they probabbly wont burn in hell for it.
Haha. Where are you imagining back to exactly? What you're imagining doesn't seem to gel with history as we know it. Have you heard of the Crusades? The Holocaust? The Native Americans? Darfur? The list goes on and on. I could imagine a land of sunshine and rainbows and smiles, but that's not exactly how it is here, at least not where I live.
People have been killing and raping other people for centuries. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from but the argument you're making doesn't make sense to me.
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 08:44 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:16 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go.
A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.
easy shaye. You dont have to like senator Mccain. But he has lived an extraordinary life of service for our country. I think he deserves a bit more respect than to call him a dimwit.
Ok well, I respect the service that he's provided for our country. But I'm excluding that from my views of him as a politician and possible president. As far as that's concerned I'm referring to him as a dimwit, as in someone that would not be good as the leader of this country. That's just my opinion. Not saying he wasn't brave and courageous in the past, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it takes to makes decisions about an entire country and how it relates to the rest of the World.
Obama already won, and Mccain is just as horrible as Bush if not worse.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 27, 2008, 03:29 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:39 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:24 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 08:12 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
What is all this bullshit about "digging deeper at the root of the problem"? People have been doing that for years and years already. People who murder (with the exception of crimes of passion or self defense) or rape others are not of sound mind.
So what is the alternative? Sentence them to a 10 or 20 years jail sentence that tax payers pay for, while the scumbag eats 3 meals a day, lifts weights and fools everyone into thinking that he's turned to God to help him get through his struggle. Pedophilia is not curable. People don't go to therapy and rid themselves of the problem. If they do, it's a one in a million chance. How much longer do we spend trying to figure out what millions of different factors could have caused someone to do something so disgusting, while just letting it happen more and more?
What do you say in the meantime, "Don't worry, we're working on it" ? Are child rapists or murderers productive members of society? I sure as fuck don't think so. Frankly, I understand worrying about innocent people who are wrongly accused, but take that out of the equation and think about those who are guilty. What then?
Whether you are for or against the death penalty, please don't for a second think that people who rape or molest children can be rehabilitated. If they could they wouldn't have maps of your neighborhood on the internet showing red dots over the places where convicted molesters live.
yeah you pretty much missed my point.
its neither a decision nor some kind of illness to become a murderer/rapist etc.
its the wrong society who allows them to develop. sure the rape/murdere itself possibly is a decision but it has a longer history. and this is where the politicians should concentrate on.
elaborate what the problem is. spend money in preventive actions. profit.
killing people is a barbaric act. may it e by law or illegal. it may give others a feeling of security of rapists are killed but it wont stop the society from producing rapists.
I didn't miss your point. I took it for what it was and elaborated on the issue and provided some of my own opinions and questions.
What is the preventive actions people are supposed to spend money on? How can you prevent someone from doing something before they do it?
Changing society has nothing to do with rape and/or murder. Both have been happening throughout the world for thousands of years in all different societies and cultures. This isn't something that just popped up here in America one day.
i could imagine that for example murderer didnt happen very often until people noticed that they probabbly wont burn in hell for it.
Haha. Where are you imagining back to exactly? What you're imagining doesn't seem to gel with history as we know it. Have you heard of the Crusades? The Holocaust? The Native Americans? Darfur? The list goes on and on. I could imagine a land of sunshine and rainbows and smiles, but that's not exactly how it is here, at least not where I live.
People have been killing and raping other people for centuries. I'm really trying to understand where you're coming from but the argument you're making doesn't make sense to me.
you just mixed up the term "murderer" as we used it in this thread and as used by law with murderers and killings that where actually legal in their time.
the point is that it would be wrong onyl to blame the murderer for killing someone. for me its the society that creates murders.
your examples:
crusade: killing in the name of god was legal there. they werent murderers from this historical point of view.
but you have a good example of a society that legalizes killing other people.
native american: im not firm on this topic. but the settlers followed some very cruel and wrong aim. because of their society
holocaust: another perfect example of how killing other people is even tolerated. never compare the holocaust to the crusades or the killing of native americans.
conclusion: your examples miss my point cause you showed me some societies that legalized murderer.
what i mean is the time before the time of reconnaisance (18th century). of course there have been cruel wars and killings before but lets just stay on our example of a murderer of how we understand it today. and my thesis is that before the time of reconnaisance there have been less of them. why? because they feared to go to hell for murderer. when they begun to recognize that most likely there is no hell, murderer became more normal in the society.
(i am not saying that it is a good reason not to murder just because you believe you would go to hell otherwise. this is just an example of how societies could prevent murdering)
its wrong and dangerous to search the guilt just in the murderer himself.
Age of Enlightenment is what i mean with time of reconnaissance.
i didnt know the english one...
fuck all that mccain osama and billery are the worst candidates for the presidency if ive seen any...its all shit if i had the greens id go live on the moon...to hell with the nigger
hm. You see, its people like you that was the reason for the electoral college.
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 27, 2008, 03:33 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 08:44 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Jun 26, 2008, 08:16 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jun 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
well for those of you who were hoping that he was a genuine new breed of politician. You can go ahead and let that go.
A genuine new breed of politician is not what I was thinking, and anyone with a brain shouldn't have thought so either. But he's certainly intelligent, eloquent and IMO a wayyyyyyy better candidate than the other 2 dimwits he was up against. If he beats the his senile counterpart into office this year, only time will tell whether things work out. There is no sure thing when it comes to any of them, meaning Clinton, McCain or Obama.
easy shaye. You dont have to like senator Mccain. But he has lived an extraordinary life of service for our country. I think he deserves a bit more respect than to call him a dimwit.
Ok well, I respect the service that he's provided for our country. But I'm excluding that from my views of him as a politician and possible president. As far as that's concerned I'm referring to him as a dimwit, as in someone that would not be good as the leader of this country. That's just my opinion. Not saying he wasn't brave and courageous in the past, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it takes to makes decisions about an entire country and how it relates to the rest of the World.
I see what you are saying. I wasn't just talking about his military service though. Also the life of service he provided in the Senate. I mean of course you can think whatever you want of him. Its just like I said, I dont think hillary would have been a good leader. But I still respect her service and wouldn't call her a dimwit for it. I have a harder time saying the same about obama. seeing as how in all reality he really hasn't done a whole lot of anything in his political career. But, im trying. I need to be able to feel ok about if either candidate wins.
Quote from: Oldnewtype on Jun 27, 2008, 07:24 PM
Obama already won, and Mccain is just as horrible as Bush if not worse.
Mccain and Bush are VERY different. The only thing they have in common is the fact they are both republicans.
y are you guys concentrating so much on the candidate?
what about the programs of the different parties you have over there?
Well I mean the candidate represents the party.
Plus I would love to see myself as above voting just for the party. I would love to be able to look with blind eyes and just be able to assess who would be the best leader for the country. Im sure im not even close to being there yet. but I try.
too bad 90% of americans just vote for the party affiliation
I dont vote based on party affiliation. I listen to what they say,it just happens that I lean more towards Democratic views as opposed to Republican ones. I agree with some Republican views,but none have convinced me thoroughly that I should vote for them. I dont base who I vote for by who my parents vote for or who a celebrity is voting for... I actually listen to each candidates views and base it on the ones I believe in.
Quote from: dictatesofreason on Jun 28, 2008, 07:39 AM
fuck all that mccain osama and billery are the worst candidates for the presidency if ive seen any...its all shit if i had the greens id go live on the moon...to hell with the nigger
No racism allowed mkay
Quote from: goldpony on Jun 28, 2008, 04:46 PM
Quote from: dictatesofreason on Jun 28, 2008, 07:39 AM
fuck all that mccain osama and billery are the worst candidates for the presidency if ive seen any...its all shit if i had the greens id go live on the moon...to hell with the nigger
No racism allowed mkay
VERITAS
in vino est
oh p.s. everyone, punishment for child rape is not a federal issue, it's a state issue, just like gay marriage and abortion, so obama's stance really doesn't matter, unless you're talking about a personality judgement
an interesting read... follow the links if you'd like some more issues with al gore's credibility.
http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/35-scientific-errors-or-intentional-lies-in-an-inconvenient-truth/
also quite interesting : http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/follow-the-clues-is-al-gores-promotion-of-global-warming-hysteria-merely-a-scam-to-make-him-money/
and finally
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/19842304.html
obama is god!
haha
No,that's Trent. DUH
anybody read those articles i posted?
MORS VINCIT OMNIA
god damnit you guys
lol
i visit his speech tomorrow in berlin.
hope i can understand was his words actually mean.
its strange that visitors arent allowed to hold banners and posters.
guess they wanna hide the german antiamericanism or something.
peace american dudes
Quote from: Nailec on Jul 23, 2008, 11:56 PM
i visit his speech tomorrow in berlin.
hope i can understand was his words actually mean.
its strange that visitors arent allowed to hold banners and posters.
guess they wanna hide the german antiamericanism or something.
peace american dudes
lol @ german antiamericanism
whats funny with that?
obama is a socialist. I doubt you will like him.
Quote from: Nailec on Jul 24, 2008, 11:11 AM
whats funny with that?
i just thought it was a funny phrase is all
Quote from: Nailec on Jul 23, 2008, 11:56 PM
i visit his speech tomorrow in berlin.
So how was it ? I'm curious...
who do you guys think is going to win?
I think McCain is defiantly the underdog here. But it is for sure still anybodys race.
I think that one of the big things that Obama had going for him was that he was pretty unknown. But the media decided to kiss his ass in a completely unbelievable way and has given him shit tons of coverage. I think this actually hurt him. He kind of lost that mystique about him. And I think that now that a lot of people are getting to know him they are realizing that he is really no different than any other politician who has ran before. And a lot of people are starting to realize that they dont necessarily agree with some of his policies. I could be wrong, but the polls are showing that McCain is gaining ground in a lot of states. So I just think that is the reason why.
i dont really like either candidate, but dont want to throw my vote away by voting for a third party...i'll probabaly end up voting for obama because it seems like mccain is going to follow the GOP party line, which im pretty tired of at this point. remember waht washington said at his farewell speech (paraphrase) " a two party system will be the death of democracy"
Yeah obama will prob win just because of the media and new voters alone.
Quote from: goldpony on Jul 25, 2008, 06:01 PM
i dont really like either candidate, but dont want to throw my vote away by voting for a third party...i'll probabaly end up voting for obama because it seems like mccain is going to follow the GOP party line, which im pretty tired of at this point. remember waht washington said at his farewell speech (paraphrase) " a two party system will be the death of democracy"
He was so right about the two party system. but the real reason why is because no one can seem to compromised. Just let shit go and take a middle ground so that legislation can actually get passed. They just sit there and drive a hard line and nothing gets accomplished. Its not that fucking hard
I mean how fucking long is it going to matter what a candidates stance on abortion is? Can we please get past this shit already. How bout this. Abortion is not the business of the federal government. We will allow the Individual States to make their own Abortion laws. So if you want an abortion , dont move to Utah. And if you feel abortion is immoral and want to live in a community who does not support it, dont live in fucking cali. Boom, compromise made, next
Gun control....are you fucking serious? We are still talking about this? Ok hows about this. The 2nd amendment guarantees the rights of Americans to own weapons for self defense or the formation of a militia in case the central government becomes too powerful and a revolution needs to bust out. However I cant possibly justify just letting an all out acceptance of every american owning automatic rifles and grenade launchers. No one needs a 50 caliber machine gun, or sniper rifle. So here the deal. You may own hand guns for self defense. you may own hunting rifles with a max caliber of 7.62 - 308. You may own semi automatic assault rifles at a caliber no greater 7.62. And there is no other use for a SMG such as a MP5 or a grenade launcher except to kill people at a cyclic rate. So dont even ask. And we will leave it up to the individual state on concealed to carry laws. compromise made, next
The war in Iraq? How about this. We have been there long enough and spent way too much money in doing so. But if we leave before a stable Iraq can be reasonably assured, then it was all for nothing. So here is the deal. We can make a time table ( and keep the dates a fucking secret for once ) and say that we will start to impliment our stradegy to get out by this date. And we will try. We will make phases. But when the time comes, if those dates are too soon to assure victory. We have to extend them. Dont get me wrong, we will work our asses off to make it happen. But we cant just pull out and allow genocide to be on our hands because we moved too fast. Set the date, make the plan, compromise made, next..........
you get the point? Its not that fucking hard. But everyone just wants to look righteous and drive a hard line. Its fucking pathetic. But that's why a lot of republicans dont like McCain. He has a reputation for just taking a compromise or admitting the democrats are right and working with them to pass legislation. I think that's something we need. A leader who can stand a middle ground and draw others towards it. Im not sure obama has that ability.
I agree with being sick of the GOP though. But at this point, I am convinced that it is not really the GOP, just the Bush administration. The bush administration went against so many principals that republicans are supposed to stand for. I dont really see them as the GOP. But if this shit keeps up after he is gone, I think I will just become an independent.
cliff notes?
you can skip the 3rd, 4th, and 5th paragraph and still be ok.
America is just screwed
- There should be no death peanalty . your just leeting them die they don't live with waht they did there probably happy. and what if your wrongly convicted? then you just get killed instead of having re trials in latter years. Child Rapists. No . They should just go to jail forever and live in there own misery of what they did, there sick they deserve to live in there sick minds away form society
Obama is just an prick but he's young, hopefully he makes positive changes instead of this crap including V
- Guns ? That should defiently be abolished, so that you HAVE to have A licence. Did any watch the micheal moore doco? People with mental disorders for crying out loud can just run around with guns, Cos there so cheap , Its not about defence , You dont' need a gun to defend, and noone will ahve guns if you abolish that stupid rule
- Iraq Well Bush just screwed you and wantss you to be hated by every country bush was just a dumb prick
- And Change your fast food restruants. I mean your the fattest country in the worlld with like a billion MCD's i meand fast food ain't all that bad but your ridicoulous porportians (sp) I mean Supersize for 50c With a fricken gallon if coke and a bucket full fo fatty chips i mean a gallon fo cokes, way more then 2.5 L and soem drink that in one sitting its insane , You can't stop Fast food reasturants and people going to them but at least stop the ridiclpous poprtions
Basically America is screwed beyond anything mccain is just annoyign an obama wants stupid laws put in place
An Honestly america probably going to start a wold war cos everyoen hates them and where all gonna die of a Nuclear bombs
I think i went a bit of subject but oh well
you wouldn't happen to be 15 would you?
LOL, yeah the US is screwed up, but i could make a case for every country in the world being screwed up. oh, i forgot, everywhere else is full of saints and nobody does anything wrong ever ;D
I find it amazing that a politician with such experience makes jokes about bombing Iran. Very helpful indeed. I know Ahmadinejad has said some damn right crazy stuff, but you don't throw it straight back. I really hope Obama wins with flying colours as he actually has some respect with dealing with concerning matters.
have a video or article to show mccain "joke" about bombing Iran?
Quote from: Muzic Junkie on Jul 27, 2008, 08:07 AM
America is just screwed
- There should be no death peanalty . your just leeting them die they don't live with waht they did there probably happy. and what if your wrongly convicted? then you just get killed instead of having re trials in latter years. Child Rapists. No . They should just go to jail forever and live in there own misery of what they did, there sick they deserve to live in there sick minds away form society
Obama is just an prick but he's young, hopefully he makes positive changes instead of this crap including V
- Guns ? That should defiently be abolished, so that you HAVE to have A licence. Did any watch the micheal moore doco? People with mental disorders for crying out loud can just run around with guns, Cos there so cheap , Its not about defence , You dont' need a gun to defend, and noone will ahve guns if you abolish that stupid rule
- Iraq Well Bush just screwed you and wantss you to be hated by every country bush was just a dumb prick
- And Change your fast food restruants. I mean your the fattest country in the worlld with like a billion MCD's i meand fast food ain't all that bad but your ridicoulous porportians (sp) I mean Supersize for 50c With a fricken gallon if coke and a bucket full fo fatty chips i mean a gallon fo cokes, way more then 2.5 L and soem drink that in one sitting its insane , You can't stop Fast food reasturants and people going to them but at least stop the ridiclpous poprtions
Basically America is screwed beyond anything mccain is just annoyign an obama wants stupid laws put in place
An Honestly america probably going to start a wold war cos everyoen hates them and where all gonna die of a Nuclear bombs
I think i went a bit of subject but oh well
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5481/lolwutsp3.jpg)
Quote from: Variable on Jul 28, 2008, 02:49 AM
have a video or article to show mccain "joke" about bombing Iran?
Yeah for sure.
[youtube=425,350]o-zoPgv_nYg[/youtube]
"When do we send them an airmail message to Tehran?". Nice.
[youtube=425,350]LldjTWx4cJQ[/youtube]
"I think this is what makes people like John McCain..."
What a dumbass! Sorry but this stuff is crazy!
both videos are down which kinda sucks.
i think most of you seen obamas speech. most of you who saw it on tv or youtube actually saw more than me. the place was so stuffed that i just sit down in the grass and listened to what he said... while two friends of mine (girls) talked all the time. the audience was pretty young and i guess most of them were students
so from what i understand the speech was pretty espectable but ok all in all. a little bit short maybe.
i was suprised how open he was concerning the war in iraq and i am glad that obama obviously wants a change in environmental politics. i missed what he said on iran but im pretty sure there was nothing new there.
thanks america for what you have done for germany in the past. obama summed that help up pretty much.
Quote from: Jambi on Jul 28, 2008, 01:43 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jul 28, 2008, 02:49 AM
have a video or article to show mccain "joke" about bombing Iran?
Yeah for sure.
[youtube=425,350]o-zoPgv_nYg[/youtube]
"When do we send them an airmail message to Tehran?". Nice.
[youtube=425,350]LldjTWx4cJQ[/youtube]
"I think this is what makes people like John McCain..."
What a dumbass! Sorry but this stuff is crazy!
ehhhhh. I mean your opinion is yours and that's cool and all. But I think you might be overreacting just a bit. McCain has been a jokester his whole career. He has made all kinds of stupid videos and shit making fun of current events. Its just his personality. I make stupid jokes about shit that I dont really mean all the time. I would imagine that most people do. I make fun of my friends for being "gay" all the time. But if one of them actually was gay, I wouldn't care. I wouldn't like try to kick their ass and start hating them. They would simply become my gay friend, and I would probably still make fun of them. I make fun of my roommate all the time when he has moments stereotypical to his mexican heritage. Its not that I hate mexicans. Its just a joke. Just an easy way to get in a chuckle. And when people do the same to me, I dont take offense to it.
So yeah, maybe it is a little bit tasteless for a candidate to be making jokes like that. But I think he was just trying to be charismatic and lighten the mood a bit. If nothing else it at least shows that there is still a man under there and not just a political robot. Like I said, it was a bit tasteless. but nothing near enough to make me want to change my vote.
Don't get me wrong, I am well for politicians being more "human", but the problem with this is that that area of the world don't take much too lightly, especially mentioning "Iran" and "bombs". Sure I know it was a joke, but to be fair he should be wise enough to perhaps make a joke about something else, not about killing Iranians if you see my point. You wouldn't really see that sort of thing in Britain or Germany etc, maybe they're too stiff? I don't know but it's so a tetchy issue, especially with what is going on right now as you well know. People will see that and think "more of the same", i.e. with respect to George Bush.... which quite frankly isn't the best thing for the US.
I pretty much agree with everything you just said
Interesting choice for his Berlin speech...
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/obama-chooses-a-symbol-of-war-as-berlin-backdrop/
I would actually be surprised if obama knew any of that. Someone from his campaign was probably just like " oh wow, what a pretty structure. Lets have a speech in front of it"
I'm pretty sure he (or at least his advisors) knew
You think? I think you're underestimating the ignorance of Americans to European culture.
Quote from: Variable on Jul 29, 2008, 07:59 AM
You think? I think you're underestimating the ignorance of Americans to European culture.
Ha ha... Good point though... But I would have thought that to be an advisor to a presidential candidate, you would need to be pretty much aware of this kind of things. Not the candidates themselves obviously (cf. dumb Dubya) but at least their close circle...
Well, who knows... I don't care about this symbol at all though, and I don't think they cared either... Living in the past sucks balls...
yeah. Or maybe obama is the antichrist. I guess only time will tell.
Nah, he can't be the Antichrist. Sylvia Browne said the Antichrist was to be born 2005 or 2006 in Syria.... and around 2030 we will see his rise... Even tho I think it's complete bullshit... She actually said it.
yeah. there have been a lot of people who have said really stupid things like that. I dont know why they would want to go down in history is wrong. But thats their choice.
who are voting variable
im voting for myself. I would make a grand president
i bet
Quote from: Variable on Jul 30, 2008, 10:57 PM
im voting for myself. I would make a grand president
Oh God...that would be interesting.
well, i think I would make a good president anyways.
Quote from: Variable on Jul 31, 2008, 04:08 AM
well, i think I would make a good president anyways...
...for me to poop on
Quote from: goldpony on Jul 31, 2008, 06:20 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jul 31, 2008, 04:08 AM
well, i think I would make a good president anyways...
...for me to poop on
Yer into that kind of stuff, eh?
not really, but i couldn't resist the set up :)
(http://www.itwouldbescary.com/images/bowling_pins.jpg)
STRIKE!
Yeah this is my first year voting, I am leaning more towards Obama. At first I was Ron Paul man and I was excited that he was getting so much recognition and then it all went to hell. Sigh. :'(
apparently the US has 57 states. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
hehehe.
Quote from: Variable on Jul 31, 2008, 04:08 AM
well, i think I would make a good president anyways.
this one made me smile :)
Quote from: goldpony on Jul 31, 2008, 06:20 PM
Quote from: Variable on Jul 31, 2008, 04:08 AM
well, i think I would make a good president anyways...
...for me to poop on
ohhhh some conan humor nice. I truly did walk right into that one.
Quote from: wither-I on Aug 01, 2008, 01:17 AM
Quote from: Variable on Jul 31, 2008, 04:08 AM
well, i think I would make a good president anyways.
this one made me smile :)
you smiled because deep down you know you would tell all your friends you were voting for the other guy. But in reality you would really vote for me. Its cool man, I wont tell.
if you think that death is the worst penalty a man can receive, you're sadly mistaken.
But ugh Obama and his faith-based initiatives.....we'll see if he CHANGES stuff because if he CHANGES stuff he'll have the same fate as the ones who CHANGED stuff before him...Lincoln and JFK.
Lol, what did JFK ever change? And Lincoln's greatest act as president was the preservation of the union. Preservation means that he didn't allow it to change. The emancipation proclamation was just a means to accomplish the big end, Preserving the Union. Lincoln was a self proclaimed white supremacist. I very much admire and respect the man, but he was racist.
But being the first catholic or black president doesn't constitute as change. Its just a platform you can run on to convince stupid people that something will be different. JFK didn't get assassinated because he was making waves of movements across America. He got assassinated because......well there is a long list. But because he was fucking with cuba, the cia, the mob, ect ect. Dirty back door politics, man what a change from all the presidents that came before him.
Im just sick of people already trying to make Obama into a martyr. He hasn't done anything yet. He is not president. But if you're hoping for change, you might look else where. He is the same as anyone else. Not to mention he is just exploiting the color of his skin because when people see it, they see different, so he says change. But what exactly is he promising to change? All he ever does is just say " I will change shit!" but really doesn't go into what. Its just a fairy tale that has launched him into being the front runner. Its sad how stupid voters are.
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, basically making a mockery of the constitution. And you're right, JFK fucked a lot of people, figuratively and literally.
I think you've got me wrong-- I don't beleive Obama is any different than anyone who has come before him. He is just a little more naive and a little more dark. If he is elected, he won't dare tamper with anything that would lead to radical change.
Well yeah Lincoln did. But I mean, come on. He had a pretty good reason. And not too long after congress also suspended Habeas Corpus nation wide. So its not like Lincoln really acted alone. I agree that it does kind of make a mockery of the constitution though. I guess suspending Habeas Corpus can serve its purpose if done properly and quickly restored. But, in the wrong hands. Bad day. Just adds the importance of paying attention to who you are actually voting for.
I don't really know how I perceived your views of Obama. I guess I was more lashing out at the national and global attitude towards him. The United States has A LOT of cleaning up to do. We are in some tough times, and they are probably only going to get worse no matter who is elected. But we need to be looking for a strong and truly intelligent leader. Not some fairy tale that makes us all feel warm inside, but holds no merit.
Its just really frustrating to me that we live in the year 2008 and people still aren't over race and sex. I mean Hillary got fucked because she was a chick. And Hillary VS Obama had nothing to do with the issues. It was just, That black dude VS that white woman, stay tuned for which demographic will endure. Its fucking bull shit. People want to feel progressive so they think " oh if I vote for a black man, I am helping the progression of the civil rights movement in America " when in reality that is not Progression at all. Real progression would not be seeing him as a black man. Just the best ( or worst ) presidential candidate. Not the best man. Not the best Black man. Not the Best person who is anything but a White Male. Just the best person with the best policies and best direction for the nation. Obama, and the Democrats know this too. So even though I am irritated with the GOP right now. Im even more insulted by the Democrats for assuming that im so stupid not to see the game they are playing. And for nominating a candidate for the one and only reason that they know his race, and charisma would create a ridiculous amount of hype for their party. Its bull shit.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 14, 2008, 02:58 AM
But being the first catholic or black president doesn’t constitute as change. Its just a platform you can run on to convince stupid people that something will be different. JFK didn’t get assassinated because he was making waves of movements across America. He got assassinated because……well there is a long list. But because he was fucking with cuba, the cia, the mob, ect ect. Dirty back door politics, man what a change from all the presidents that came before him.
Im just sick of people already trying to make Obama into a martyr. He hasn’t done anything yet. He is not president. But if you’re hoping for change, you might look else where. He is the same as anyone else. Not to mention he is just exploiting the color of his skin because when people see it, they see different, so he says change. But what exactly is he promising to change? All he ever does is just say “ I will change shit!” but really doesn’t go into what. Its just a fairy tale that has launched him into being the front runner. Its sad how stupid voters are.
awesome AWESOME!
its about time someone says it.
i try to stray from politics for the most part, but this is fucking progressive!
cheers
bless
thank you sir
its great.
every-single-thing you say in your quote is right on the money imo.
some people are desperately foolish, it is sad.
i just think its funny how people are all like, "obama is hope" and shit like that its completely absurd. literally, anyone could be that hope as well...
think about it, obama appeared out of thin air. damn near noone in america had ever heard of him until a certain front cover TIME spread asked the question no one was asking, "Is this our next president?" with a big picture of some black guy with a mortal kombat/arabic assassin sounding name. That was two years ago and now look at him. He is the Manchurian candidate. A media monster, a tool of the pnac (look it up). So what, he says what most stupid idiots want to hear. I'll change everything and fill the void with hope. bla bla bla. This isnt a novel concept. The two parties are one party. They play off each other. Good cop, bad cop. Its all a well orchestrated plot to make us feel like we have a choice, or a voice. Did you see the democratic convention? that shit was like a fucking hollywood awards ceremony or my 3rd grade production of Oliver Twist. We are a family playing in the backround, obama shaking hands, kissing babies. Give me a fucking break
or obama is the only ray of hope america has right now...did you watch the convention? everyone who gave a speech in the last 4 days completely knocked it out of the park
so good speeches = good party - president?
that's the kind of idiocy that got W in office.
My stepmom called and asked me if I saw the speech Hillary gave,and I said no. I dunno...I just don't know if I want him president. I'm very very liberal,but i just DON'T know if I can pick him. And right now,I don't know if he's the lesser of the two evils.
oh hes completely full of shit. Its pooring out those big ass ears of his. But, there are some positives to him getting elected.
He does energize people. And seeing as how the large majority of Americans are morons. They wont see though his bull shit, and the country might actually get energized and maybe even united.
Im not black. And I have never been black ( i know, hard to believe ) so im not going to act like I understand this. Im just going to state an obvious observation. Black people seem to really, really want this. For reasons other than they think he is going to be a good candidate. I mean, I think that it gives them hope. I think that they need to see a country with a white majority vote in a black man. I think it helps them understand that they do have a place in this world. That the world is not full of hate. And that they can achieve just as much as any other person in america. I personally think they should see that anyways, but like I said, I really dont think I will ever understand what its like to walk in those shoes. So im not going to act like I understand. So it might help with a lot of the racial divide in America. And it might get rid of idiots like Al sharpton and Jessie Jackson.
Who ever gets elected is more than likely going to have some HUGE failures trying to over come the way the country is going now. So, if he does get elected. Its going to show people that he IS human and is not perfect. It will show people that its stupid to get so hyped up about someone because of the color of their skin ( I could have sworn that was called racism ) and that in the future they need to elect candidates off of policy and their ability to lead our country. Not off Oratory skills and how warm inside they feel when they hear their story.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 29, 2008, 03:38 PM
Im not black. And I have never been black ( i know, hard to believe )
*dies laughing*
Sounds like you wanna vote for him?
No, I really dont. Hes too socialistic for me. At the end of the day, one of my most core political fundamental beliefs is federalism. And that's something the GOP used to represent anyways. But Obama is like the exact opposite.
But if I thought he could actually make good on some of his promises I might consider him. But pretty much I think he is a smooth talking ass hole.
And McCain isn't?? They all tell you what you wanna hear,just so they can get a chance to sit in that oval office.
yeah yeah I know. But at least McCain has done something with his political career besides campaign. When Pailin Gave her speech right now the 2nd part was all about what she has done in only 2 years in office. Obama has never made a speech like that, because he cant. He hasnt done shit. All he has is talk. That's the difference.
so who are you going to vote for ?
Ron Paul
Ross Perot
okay, i'm sorry, but i don't think i've understood the voting system in the US then.
i thought you were only able to vote between Obama or McCain?
haha..I was being silly,Ross Perot was a candidate YEARS ago. Usually you have 2 "main" people running. I know you also have the Green,Independent,Constitutional and Libertarian Parties. But "usually" the Democratic and Republican candidates are the "real" ones running as they actually have a chance to make it to office.
""""""""""""
I like "using" quotations today.
as Kang said on the Simpsons about voting for a Third party candidate
"go ahead, throw your vote away"
Quote from: Variable on Aug 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
He hasnt done shit. All he has is talk. That's the difference.
actually he has done shit. as an illinois state senator he did shit, and in his 4 years as us senator he has done shit to try to get out of iraq and get more troops into afghanistan, among many other issues he's tried to deal with.
what he was done in illinois is what he trying to do to the rest of the nation.
i've been wanting to see him as president for about the last 12 months or so, i guess my vote will go to Obama on nov. 4
Reducing oil consumption by 10% in 10 years is a pretty big change and a much MUCH needed one.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Aug 29, 2008, 10:12 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
He hasnt done shit. All he has is talk. That's the difference.
actually he has done shit. as an illinois state senator he did shit, and in his 4 years as us senator he has done shit to try to get out of iraq and get more troops into afghanistan, among many other issues he's tried to deal with.
what he was done in illinois is what he trying to do to the rest of the nation.
i've been wanting to see him as president for about the last 12 months or so, i guess my vote will go to Obama on nov. 4
Um, trying to do something is not the same as doing something. I said that he has not accomplished anything. Not that he did not try to accomplish anything.
And the reason you have had your eye on him for so long is because he has been campaigning for that long instead of standing his office.
And what really did Bush do that was soo fab to land him in office?
Quote from: Variable on Aug 30, 2008, 03:44 AM
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Aug 29, 2008, 10:12 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
He hasnt done shit. All he has is talk. That's the difference.
actually he has done shit. as an illinois state senator he did shit, and in his 4 years as us senator he has done shit to try to get out of iraq and get more troops into afghanistan, among many other issues he's tried to deal with.
what he was done in illinois is what he trying to do to the rest of the nation.
i've been wanting to see him as president for about the last 12 months or so, i guess my vote will go to Obama on nov. 4
Um, trying to do something is not the same as doing something. I said that he has not accomplished anything. Not that he did not try to accomplish anything.
And the reason you have had your eye on him for so long is because he has been campaigning for that long instead of standing his office.
thats exactly my point, he DID help reform health care, welfare, and taxes on the south side of Chicago. then as a US senator, he's done at least this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 ) and this ( http://nwitimes.com/articles/2007/02/07/news/illiana/doc65cc98d8dc6506b28625727b0011edb5.txt )
Quote from: devilinside on Aug 30, 2008, 03:47 AM
And what really did Bush do that was soo fab to land him in office?
fool a bunch of idiots. Just like obama is doing
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Aug 30, 2008, 04:01 AM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 30, 2008, 03:44 AM
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Aug 29, 2008, 10:12 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 29, 2008, 04:54 PM
He hasnt done shit. All he has is talk. That's the difference.
actually he has done shit. as an illinois state senator he did shit, and in his 4 years as us senator he has done shit to try to get out of iraq and get more troops into afghanistan, among many other issues he's tried to deal with.
what he was done in illinois is what he trying to do to the rest of the nation.
i've been wanting to see him as president for about the last 12 months or so, i guess my vote will go to Obama on nov. 4
Um, trying to do something is not the same as doing something. I said that he has not accomplished anything. Not that he did not try to accomplish anything.
And the reason you have had your eye on him for so long is because he has been campaigning for that long instead of standing his office.
thats exactly my point, he DID help reform health care, welfare, and taxes on the south side of Chicago. then as a US senator, he's done at least this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 ) and this ( http://nwitimes.com/articles/2007/02/07/news/illiana/doc65cc98d8dc6506b28625727b0011edb5.txt )
Cool so Obamas big accomplishment was getting the day and month of day lights saving changed. WOW.
Im JK man I know your not an idiot, sorry if I have been talking to you like you are. Im just a little worked up today. But I didn't see Obamas name anywhere on that bill. Actually the only name on it that I was was George W. Bush. But believe me, ill get the inside scoop. Albuquerque, NM just happens to be my home town because my Father ( who just retired ) worked for the DOE, the organization in charge of Sandia Labs. Ill see what he thinks about that bill.
And the 2nd link didn't work.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 30, 2008, 04:27 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Aug 30, 2008, 03:47 AM
And what really did Bush do that was soo fab to land him in office?
fool a bunch of idiots. Just like obama is doing
And yes Kelly. I know what you are thinking. I did vote for Bush ( only once because I was a freshman in high school in 2000) But I can admit that I was being stupid. Didn't pay enough attention to the actual facts. And voted based on political party instead of the best person for the job. HOWEVER, Gore? Kerry? Fuck, the democrats didn't really give me much of a choice.
But I am disappointed in myself for not seeing through the W. bull shit.
its all cool, Variable, the second link was just about him getting troops out of Iraq.
i know i'm liberal, i'm obviously a big obama supporter, but this is just the democrats' golden opportunity. there is no hope, if they manage to screw this election up.
they should've won that 2000 election, and then in '04....ugh, even John Kerry should admit he was a crappy choice for the nomination...
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Aug 29, 2008, 11:42 PM
Reducing oil consumption by 10% in 10 years is a pretty big change and a much MUCH needed one.
except that he wont even be president in 10 years. So that was a stupid thing for him to say.
and I thought he said that he would set a clear course to be off foreign oil in 10 years. In other words " im going to say that I want to be off foreign oil in 10 years. Wether it happens or not is a totally different story. CHANGE!"
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Aug 30, 2008, 05:00 AM
its all cool, Variable, the second link was just about him getting troops out of Iraq.
i know i'm liberal, i'm obviously a big obama supporter, but this is just the democrats' golden opportunity. there is no hope, if they manage to screw this election up.
they should've won that 2000 election, and then in '04....ugh, even John Kerry should admit he was a crappy choice for the nomination...
That's the thing though dude. As someone who just got back from afghanistan, and is going to be going to Iraq here fairly soon. I dont want less troops in Iraq. The more guns I have on my side, the better my chances are of getting out alive. We have these guys pinned against the wall because of the troop surge that Obama didn't support. Now we want to start drawing down the numbers? No, that's just a plan to satisfy the american people. Not win the war. We have them on the ropes, now we need to finish them once and for all. Then we can pull out. And I guarantee you that every single INFINTRY General agrees, wether they can say it out loud or not. They are also politicians you know.
Im sorry. But Obama campaigning for a purpose that 1. he didn't succeed in. 2. the exact opposite was proven to work. and 3. could get me killed. Is not a reason for me to like him very much
and trust me, we dont need more troops in Afghanistan. We need to make the troops who are there actually do their job. We have RIDICULOUSLY large forward operating bases ( FOBs ) in Afghanistan (EG Bagrahm Air Field, Jallalabad Air Field, Camp Phoenix ect ect.) that are packed full of personal. I mean TONS of US service members, who never ever leave the wire. They dont leave the base at all, ever. How the fuck are you supposed to win a war like that? They need to push the forces out of the FOBs and where it matters. Plus we need every soldier to get the proper cultural training before they go over there. And a clear message as to exactly what 4th generation war fare is. Its not the numbers that is the problem in Afghanistan. And if Obama was as smart as he likes to think he is, he would have figured that out.
And Bill Clinton was the first democrat since FDR to be re-elected. Democrats dont have a great track record. I dont think anyone thought they had a chance at a 3rd term in the white house in 2000. Which is why republicans felt comfortable sending in some idiot like W into the office so that their all star cabinet could really run the show. And Kerry, oh god. Lol, fucking Kerry. He was actually a worse choice than bush. that says a lot.
after obama.... asian-american for president!
then native american indian for president
I'm Native American!! WHOO!!!!!! I'll run for prez when I'm old enough. ;)
Quote from: devilinside on Aug 31, 2008, 01:19 AM
I'm Native American!! WHOO!!!!!! I'll run for prez when I'm old enough. ;)
pure brown indian?
My great grandmother lived on a reservation...then went senile.
ohh i see man. :)
what age you plannig to run for president?
I will be running at age 45
obama will be the next president
and he will be even worse than bush (even though that sounds impossible)
thats my guess.
I think he will actually be a very average president. I think he will start off with some big ambitions and fail miserably. I think he is underestimating how hard it will be to turn around the mistakes of the Bush administration. And I think he is underestimating how even a minority house of Republicans can work against him. He will spend his first bit of time trying and failing. then he will play it safe because of re-elections. Then IF he gets re-elected. He will once again play it very safe to ensure that the first black President of the United states was not seen as a miserable failure.
Hillary on the other hand. Here is one of my many takes on why she would have been the better democratic choice.
First off, people dont even understand the depth of her intelligence and foresight. She understands exactly what she is/was getting into. Her first term. She would have played it very safe. And very smart. Making simple adjustments to the country to ensure that she could be seen as making few mistakes so that her re-election would be ensured. Then, after getting re-elected. She would go fucking crazy ( in a good way, as far as democrats are concerned) If there is one word to describe the clintons, its vain. they want to be remembered in history. Hillary would go after some crazy ass shit in order to ensure that she would go down in history not only as the first woman president, part of the first married couple to become president, or the 2nd democrat elected in a row to serve two terms since FDR, But she would also want to go down as an amazing governor and revolutionary policy maker. She would have been my worst nightmare.
Which is why I cant vote democrat. They did not pick the best person for the job. The chose the person they saw most likely to get elected. I just think the American people deserve better. Which is why im a bit irritated with McCain right now too for the Sarah Palin stunt. But at least she is not running for President.
i would say it is impossible to be worse than bush; even McCain would be about 10 times better than W.
I think that is a point that we can all solidly agree on.
There is a treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise, but to the foolish man that spendeth it up, you gotta learn now. It won't be no more, no more in your lonely world.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 01, 2008, 02:17 PM
i would say it is impossible to be worse than bush; even McCain would be about 10 times better than W.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 01, 2008, 02:39 PM
I think that is a point that we can all solidly agree on.
Indeed
No McCain is the worst one don't you see? He's even more fake. I feel sorry for Bush, yes he is the 666 but Even I have to love my enemy, I mean, I can't take back what he did, he's going to hell, but If I don't forgive him, then how is he forgiven? Mccain's trying to keep the war alive for a 100 more years. Trust me he'll be dead by the time he's 80. Even the best pharmecutical drugs can't keep him alive longer than that. Them trying to make money off of others weaknesses. Same ol story since creation. Don't forget where the Ark is. And who the last reigning king is. The ark makes an army invincible, and no you don't wanna Incite ethiopia. We will chrush you. A great magnifescent force. Don't you ever go there. Revelation time.
The same god those phonies are using in Vain for Personal Gain, is the god that's gonna give them the greatest Blow.
THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP FALSE GODS AND IDOLS BEFORE ME
by even voting you are breaking the commandment. and you wonder why everything is messed up.
Oh....My....Gawd you're an idiot.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 08, 2008, 05:49 PM
Oh....My....Gawd you're an idiot.
If I am an Idiot, the you would be more. Though I wouldn't call you one, so why forsake? I was Agreeing with you!
You agreed that Mccain would be "like ten times" better than 666, Well I see what you are all saying as it is good to see.
But I expanded on that because the truth really is Mccain would be worse, and if you can't see that, you can come to god to cure your blindness! hahaha. Yes!
It is obvious he want's this war to keep going even more than bush whom started it and it now take troops out to have mercy on his piece in history.
Mccain straight up says hes gonna keep em for 100 years, he's talking about being the Dajjal! the ANTI CHRIST and trying to take down the empire in Israel! hes in the middle east now! YESHUA says in Revelation in 2000 years HIM shall come and bring down the WHORE OF BABYLON as the conquering lion of the tribe of Judah decendents of abraham all the way to jacob to isaac, ham shem Japeth, king david, king solomon, menelik I (david2), the solomonic lineage! THE TWELVE TRIBES! JUDAH!
Mccain is aware, he wants to be the dajjal for his piece in history! and whatever lovely history its gonna be when his page of history are burnt by the wrath of god when he trys to come to the holy land in mt zion, acceptable for all! and who will chrush anyone that brings evil! the ark of covenant rests and he will judge us all!
with TRUTH<JUSTICE<EQUALITY< AND RIGHTOUSNESS FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take back what I said in the previous post's about agreeing with Variable and BLBC,the more research I'm doing,the worse that fucker is looking. But you and your biblical talking is a little redundant.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 08, 2008, 06:54 PM
I take back what I said in the previous post's about agreeing with Variable and BLBC,the more research I'm doing,the worse that fucker is looking. But you and your biblical talking is a little redundant.
Yes sistren that is all rite. We can all be who we want but check it, It needs to be rundant cause that's all it is. Much Love.
obama FTW?
Quote from: Runs With The Spirit on Sep 08, 2008, 05:16 PM
No McCain is the worst one don't you see? He's even more fake. I feel sorry for Bush, yes he is the 666 but Even I have to love my enemy, I mean, I can't take back what he did, he's going to hell, but If I don't forgive him, then how is he forgiven? Mccain's trying to keep the war alive for a 100 more years. Trust me he'll be dead by the time he's 80. Even the best pharmecutical drugs can't keep him alive longer than that. Them trying to make money off of others weaknesses. Same ol story since creation. Don't forget where the Ark is. And who the last reigning king is. The ark makes an army invincible, and no you don't wanna Incite ethiopia. We will chrush you. A great magnifescent force. Don't you ever go there. Revelation time.
The same god those phonies are using in Vain for Personal Gain, is the god that's gonna give them the greatest Blow.
THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP FALSE GODS AND IDOLS BEFORE ME
by even voting you are breaking the commandment. and you wonder why everything is messed up.
so Obama talking about sending two more combat brigades to Afghanistan and entering into pakistan to hunt down AL Qaeda and the Taliban is not more war? If you guys thought Iraq was bad, faluja, ha. Those Tribal areas on the boarder of Pakistan will be 10 x worse. especially seeing as how the government of Pakistan doesn't want us there. Obama arrogantly thinks he can stroll in and do whatever he wants. I will be the one paying the price for that.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 08, 2008, 09:13 PM
Quote from: Runs With The Spirit on Sep 08, 2008, 05:16 PM
No McCain is the worst one don't you see? He's even more fake. I feel sorry for Bush, yes he is the 666 but Even I have to love my enemy, I mean, I can't take back what he did, he's going to hell, but If I don't forgive him, then how is he forgiven? Mccain's trying to keep the war alive for a 100 more years. Trust me he'll be dead by the time he's 80. Even the best pharmecutical drugs can't keep him alive longer than that. Them trying to make money off of others weaknesses. Same ol story since creation. Don't forget where the Ark is. And who the last reigning king is. The ark makes an army invincible, and no you don't wanna Incite ethiopia. We will chrush you. A great magnifescent force. Don't you ever go there. Revelation time.
The same god those phonies are using in Vain for Personal Gain, is the god that's gonna give them the greatest Blow.
THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP FALSE GODS AND IDOLS BEFORE ME
by even voting you are breaking the commandment. and you wonder why everything is messed up.
so Obama talking about sending two more combat brigades to Afghanistan and entering into pakistan to hunt down AL Qaeda and the Taliban is not more war? If you guys thought Iraq was bad, faluja, ha. Those Tribal areas on the boarder of Pakistan will be 10 x worse. especially seeing as how the government of Pakistan doesn't want us there. Obama arrogantly thinks he can stroll in and do whatever he wants. I will be the one paying the price for that.
Kinda like Bush has been doing these past 8 years,huh? You're the one that signed up for the military,You're the one that has openly put your life on the line. Don't blame it on Obama. And while I am grateful for what you do for our country,I can bet that McCain would do the same thing...he just hasn't said it yet. (or cant remember the country...whatever)
oh no, dont get me wrong. Bush has made horrible decisions. Im not defending him at all. And ill go stand tall and do whatever President Obama ( assuming he wins ) will ask of me. I wont complain one bit about it. Im not even saying it doesn't need to be done. In my opinion, that is the most dangerous area of the world right now.
What I am trying to say is that people for some reason perceive Obama as the peace candidate. Which he is obviously trying to portrait himself as. Because if you do the research, the peace candidate always wins. But in reality, he is not. He will bring more war. Just move it from Iraq and focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's not peace.
Interesting though, Bush actually campaigned on Peace. He was very, very critical of Clinton for his constant deployment of the US military ( I believe it still stands true that Clinton deployed the US Military more times than any other president in history) and Bush even criticized Clinton for nation building. saying that his missions for the military started out as humanitarian, but turned into Nation building, and that it was wrong to do so. Hmmmm, well we all know how that turned out. I guess that is yet another good lesson we can learn from president George W. Bush. Politicians lie, who would have thunk it. They will say anything they can to get into office, Obama is no different
I guarantee you that regardless of who is president next. We will be in Iraq for at least their first term. Unless something crazy happens. But seeing as how McCain and Obama have essentially the same stance on foreign policy as George Bush. I dont see us making any drastic changes any time soon.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 08, 2008, 11:03 PM
But seeing as how McCain and Obama have essentially the same stance on foreign policy as George Bush. I dont see us making any drastic changes any time soon.
I'm glad someone else has some sense around here. the only differences between obama and mccain are energy and abortion. and theyre not that far apart on energy.
they are not that far off at all on energy. They are just spinning it differently.
And Abortion shouldn't even be an issue. I mean simply put, separation of church and state. We are a free nation. Or we should be. You cant push your moral beliefs on another person. I personally dont agree with abortion, but I dont see it as my place to tell other people they cant do it. Also, it seems more of a decision for the courts, not the expectative branch.
In my opinion, the biggest difference between the two is health care. But I mean, even then. That is so small compared to the major issues which could be addressed. They are just making a big deal out of nothing to try and stand apart from each other.
what about energy politics? and i thought obama would be more for appeasement-politics.
there arent just religious arguments against abortion. i think most of the discussian is actually the question if abortion can be seen as a murderer or not.
remember the good ol' days of the 90s when all people bitched about was AIDS, abortion, and cancer?
ahh yes, simpler times...
Quote from: Variable on Sep 08, 2008, 09:13 PM
Quote from: Runs With The Spirit on Sep 08, 2008, 05:16 PM
No McCain is the worst one don't you see? He's even more fake. I feel sorry for Bush, yes he is the 666 but Even I have to love my enemy, I mean, I can't take back what he did, he's going to hell, but If I don't forgive him, then how is he forgiven? Mccain's trying to keep the war alive for a 100 more years. Trust me he'll be dead by the time he's 80. Even the best pharmecutical drugs can't keep him alive longer than that. Them trying to make money off of others weaknesses. Same ol story since creation. Don't forget where the Ark is. And who the last reigning king is. The ark makes an army invincible, and no you don't wanna Incite ethiopia. We will chrush you. A great magnifescent force. Don't you ever go there. Revelation time.
The same god those phonies are using in Vain for Personal Gain, is the god that's gonna give them the greatest Blow.
THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP FALSE GODS AND IDOLS BEFORE ME
by even voting you are breaking the commandment. and you wonder why everything is messed up.
so Obama talking about sending two more combat brigades to Afghanistan and entering into pakistan to hunt down AL Qaeda and the Taliban is not more war? If you guys thought Iraq was bad, faluja, ha. Those Tribal areas on the boarder of Pakistan will be 10 x worse. especially seeing as how the government of Pakistan doesn't want us there. Obama arrogantly thinks he can stroll in and do whatever he wants. I will be the one paying the price for that.
Yes, I'm not on obama's side either.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 08, 2008, 11:03 PM
What I am trying to say is that people for some reason perceive Obama as the peace candidate. Which he is obviously trying to portrait himself as. Because if you do the research, the peace candidate always wins. But in reality, he is not. He will bring more war. Just move it from Iraq and focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's not peace.
Oh,I think they're all full of shit. They tell you what you want to hear to get in office. I dont trust Obama as far as I could throw him. It would be nice to have someone in office that you felt comfortable with.
*sigh*
in the end, your vote should just go down to whether or not you think this country is in a good state right now. if you want to re-hire the people that got us into this mess, go for it and vote mccain.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 09, 2008, 12:23 AM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 08, 2008, 11:03 PM
What I am trying to say is that people for some reason perceive Obama as the peace candidate. Which he is obviously trying to portrait himself as. Because if you do the research, the peace candidate always wins. But in reality, he is not. He will bring more war. Just move it from Iraq and focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's not peace.
Oh,I think they're all full of shit. They tell you what you want to hear to get in office. I dont trust Obama as far as I could throw him. It would be nice to have someone in office that you felt comfortable with.
*sigh*
yeah well. It would be nice to have an actual strong and intelligent candidate ( cough cough Ron Paul cough cough) But as we have seen. Anyone pulling away from the status quo is black balled.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 09, 2008, 01:46 AM
in the end, your vote should just go down to whether or not you think this country is in a good state right now. if you want to re-hire the people that got us into this mess, go for it and vote mccain.
see, I have to disagree with you there. How the state of the country is now is still relevant. But the man running the country now is not up for re-election. In 04, the current state of the nation was a huge issue. Now, we have two fresh candidates. No matter how the democrats try to swing their rhetoric, McCain is not the same as Bush.
voting against republicans just to get back at them for Bush doesn't really make sense to me. As im sure Bush will be leaving politics. Especially if they have the better candidate. Which of course is a matter of personal oppinion.
Yeah...I'm not gonna vote against someone strictly because of their party affiliation. Believe me,I look at the pros and cons of both parties,it just happend I always lean towards democratic. Now,if a Repbulican came along that was my ideal candidate,then sure,I'd vote for them.
And I'm totally pro choice. I believe nobody should make a personal choice about my life other than me. I don't however believe women should be allowed consecutive abortions. There should be records of such events,and after women have met a certain amount of abortions,I think they should have to have some sort of permanent birth control ie tubes tied/hysterectomy.
I dont see how that is any less control over a womans body than telling them they cant have abortions. I just dont think the Government should have enough power to take people freedom from you. Your control over your body is your freedom. Its that simple.
the counterpoint is that the fetus has no control. the real issue with abortion is when life starts, i think it starts at conception. I think abortion should be left for the states to decide and should be legal in some form or another (imagines coathanger *shiver*) however, as much as a woman has a right to choose, she also had the right to choose contrception (in most cases) and didn't. i think the real issue is getting people to use contrception
Sad thing is that contraceptives aren't alway's affective. Granted it helps decrease the chances,but it's still there. Pills,Shots,Condoms,Spermicides...NOTHING is 100% affective. (except abstinence) Ok so say this...suppose the woman is on a method of birth control,her and the partner are using a condom,and it breaks. She becomes pregnant. She's taken the best steps she can to prevent pregnancy. Don't blame it on "she also had the right to choose contrception (in most cases) and didn't", That's bullshit. It's a 50/50 situation! Women just get stuck with the ugly part of having to choose. Not all men step up to the fatherhood plate,so the woman has to decide what is in her best interest,some women are not capable of raising a child. Most women going for abortions think "out of sight out of mind".
I think it's nobody business to decide what a woman decides to do as far as abortion. If you start making it illegal,you're gonna have a bunch of hack jobs doing home abortions and spreading diseases.
And i'm sure it would drastically cut back on welfare costs.
hey, i wasn't trying to say abortiion should be illegal. i was pointing out that the real issue is that people often don't think ahead when in the throws of passion (i know, i know brains in your pants). while contrce[ptives don't always work, i wonder about if women who get abortions think to themselves "if i had used a condom i wouldn't be here". just saying. we spend a lot of time arguing against abortion and contraceptives for kids and teenage pregnancy, then when the arguements get turned on their ear (cough bristol palin cough) it about choosing life. dont you think it would be better to try to prevent these situations before they happen
Quote from: goldpony on Sep 09, 2008, 05:49 PM
I think abortion should be left for the states to decide
you and I think a lot alike on a lot of issues. It should at least be at the state level.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 09, 2008, 06:35 PM
And i'm sure it would drastically cut back on welfare costs.
cutting welfare would also cut welfare costs
Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life. I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this. For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant. Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?" I must be pretty annoying to work with.
I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans. I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies. They are going to do it.
And Kelly. At one time people did believe in something called abstinence. You know very well I am not a fan of this. Im just saying. People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous. Then started whinnying about the consequences. Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex. Also, its the mans baby too. Men have no say in the matter. If a guy wants the child and the female does not. The female has a right to kill his baby. That is fucked up. Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up. Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support. Also fucked up. You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:15 PM
At one time people did believe in something called abstinence. You know very well I am not a fan of this. Im just saying. People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous. Then started whinnying about the consequences.
this is where youre wrong (gasp). people have been promiscuous since time began, its just if they fucked up, the mother was shipped off to a convent or sent to live with relatives so as not to disgrace the family. i think abstinence education isn't the answer. i think it is up to parents (double gasp) to properly educate their children on the birds and the bees and let them know that if you do x, y is likely to happen. i do not look forward to this talk btw
yeah yeah Im not saying like 1960s America. Obviously people throughout history have been having sex. What im saying is that people accepted that if you were going to do that, and you got pregnant, their were consequences. A lot more pressure were put on men to step the fuck up too ( at least I would like to think so ) Their have been societies and communities with true moral fiber before. We often just choose to focus on the 10% of their communities who were hypocrites rather than the vast majority who were not.
anyways. you are right. Good parenting is a big part of it. And oh god, im not even a parent and I cant even imagine talking to my daughter about such things. Its the only intelligent thing to do. Shes going to have sex, I understand this. so why act like she wont. I need to somehow communicate to her that its ok to enjoy her body, without being a total whore , getting an STD , or getting pregnant before she wants to. Fuck. I think its a little easier with a boy. Because its not like im ever going to think the little shit head is innocent anyways ( yes I will be a truly great father ;) ) plus I can slap him in to head until he swears to always use condoms and make pulling out muscle memory.
even though I am not a citizen of US, I would vote for Obama.
just my opinion
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:29 PM
plus I can slap him in to head until he swears to always use condoms and make pulling out muscle memory.
lol
Quote from: bored on Sep 09, 2008, 09:31 PM
even though I am not a citizen of US, I would vote for Obama.
just my opinion
do you have any political reason for this? Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:36 PM
do you have any political reason for this? Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?
maybe this is cause I really dislike McCain.
it's just that, well, in Lithuania Obama is presented in somewhat nicer way to me.
me and my friends sometimes discuss about McCain vs Obama and we all agree, that McCain is just another Bush.. and electing Obama would be, well, better.
I always disliked politics therefore I will probably be one of the millions of masses, so maybe my decision lacks reasoning. and no, I will not share the profound reasons, I'm just too bored at the moment
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:15 PM
Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life. I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this. For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant. Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?" I must be pretty annoying to work with.
I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans. I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies. They are going to do it.
And Kelly. At one time people did believe in something called abstinence. You know very well I am not a fan of this. Im just saying. People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous. Then started whinnying about the consequences. Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex. Also, its the mans baby too. Men have no say in the matter. If a guy wants the child and the female does not. The female has a right to kill his baby. That is fucked up. Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up. Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support. Also fucked up. You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?
Again..all going back to it's the womans body,so she does as she pleases with it. If it's not a mutual decision to make a baby,then it's her choice as far as the fate of the fetus goes. And as far as the smoking goes,I've seen many women smoke during pregnancy and have healthy children. I've seen healthy active women have sickly children and children with birth defects. It's all luck of the draw.
And maybe you wouldn't have to hear the "rape" story if some men weren't such fucking creeps and could keep their little pricks in their pants. Jesus...how often do you hear of women raping men? Seriously?!? Humans are cruel and cold,but that's just the way it goes. It happens with all species...man and animal.
We can argue this till we're blue in the face,but i will always be pro choice. I
And what teh FCUK!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&feature=related
(he's got plenty more videos about Obama)
It is always better to have A Democrat than a Republican, They just do a Little less evil!, but to tell you the truth, I won't even concern myself with Politricks until They start talkin' about REVOLUTION and eliminating the Republicans. We can do no more with that injustice on this side of the earth! no more polluting my earth, using my lords name in vain, lieing to the youth! no more!
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 09, 2008, 10:44 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:15 PM
Obviously that "thing" is a baby, a human life. I have tripped up a lot of my female nurse co workers who are pro choice with this. For example, when they get all pissed off because some woman is smoking when they are pregnant. Its pretty easy to be like " why does it matter?" and they are like " because they are fucking up their baby dumbass!" and im like " I thought you told me it wasn't a baby? I guess its only not a baby when you want to kill it?" I must be pretty annoying to work with.
I just think this goes to show how cold and cruel humans. I dont really see the point in having a debate about life with a group of people who are ok with sucking out the brains of babies. They are going to do it.
And Kelly. At one time people did believe in something called abstinence. You know very well I am not a fan of this. Im just saying. People used to do it, but then we all started getting promiscuous. Then started whinnying about the consequences. Yes it suck that biology determined females would carry babies ( for you anways) But that was a risk you accepted when you voluntarily ( oh god, now I have to hear the rape defense again) had sex. Also, its the mans baby too. Men have no say in the matter. If a guy wants the child and the female does not. The female has a right to kill his baby. That is fucked up. Seriously if you think about it, its fucked up. Also if a guy does not want it, the female can have it, and take him to court and try to get child support. Also fucked up. You being such and advocate for the civil rights movement probably have a problem with that right?
Again..all going back to it's the womans body,so she does as she pleases with it. If it's not a mutual decision to make a baby,then it's her choice as far as the fate of the fetus goes. And as far as the smoking goes,I've seen many women smoke during pregnancy and have healthy children. I've seen healthy active women have sickly children and children with birth defects. It's all luck of the draw.
And maybe you wouldn't have to hear the "rape" story if some men weren't such fucking creeps and could keep their little pricks in their pants. Jesus...how often do you hear of women raping men? Seriously?!? Humans are cruel and cold,but that's just the way it goes. It happens with all species...man and animal.
We can argue this till we're blue in the face,but i will always be pro choice. I
you missed the point on my smoking comment and the rape comment.
The smoking comment. Because it is a fact that you can jack up your kid. It wasn't just smoking. It was alcohol and drugs and all kinds of shit right. The nurses would just get mad when they were doing something that could potentially hurt their babies. I was not trying to start a discussion on wether or not smoking is harmful to a fetus. I was bringing up the point that these women were pro choice. Yet got very mad at the mothers for having disregard for their "unborn babies" can you not see the hypocrisy in that?
The rape was meant that some people think that abortions should be legalized just because sometimes girls get raped and dont want the kind. Of course this is understandable. But I would be willing to guess that abortions due to rape victims are probably about 1% of the abortions performed every year in the US. I dont really see that 1% as good enough of a reason to compromise the moral stance of killing babies.
and just because a baby was an accident. doesn't mean that a man cant feel like a father towards it. It is his child too. Are you telling me that all of your children were planned? I mean, shit happens. that doesn't mean that a woman has the right to take away a mans child. It sucks, its not fair that women have to carry the child, but life isnt fair. And I think that murdering a mans child is far worse that having to go through 9 months of a pregnancy. I mean honestly, put it on a scale, which is more fucked up? If you dont want to deal with issues like this, dont have sex.
Quote from: bored on Sep 09, 2008, 09:54 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 09:36 PM
do you have any political reason for this? Or do you just like his face and think he makes pretty speeches?
maybe this is cause I really dislike McCain.
it's just that, well, in Lithuania Obama is presented in somewhat nicer way to me.
me and my friends sometimes discuss about McCain vs Obama and we all agree, that McCain is just another Bush.. and electing Obama would be, well, better.
I always disliked politics therefore I will probably be one of the millions of masses, so maybe my decision lacks reasoning. and no, I will not share the profound reasons, I'm just too bored at the moment
yeah but im just asking. Is their any reason to not like McCain? Like an actual political reason? Or is it all based on perceptions from vast public opinions and looks and oratory ability? I mean , thinking a guy is nicer than another really isn't a good reason to elect them to the most powerful position in the world.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 01:16 AM
you missed the point on my smoking comment and the rape comment.
The smoking comment. Because it is a fact that you can jack up your kid. It wasn't just smoking. It was alcohol and drugs and all kinds of shit right. The nurses would just get mad when they were doing something that could potentially hurt their babies. I was not trying to start a discussion on wether or not smoking is harmful to a fetus. I was bringing up the point that these women were pro choice. Yet got very mad at the mothers for having disregard for their "unborn babies" can you not see the hypocrisy in that?
The rape was meant that some people think that abortions should be legalized just because sometimes girls get raped and dont want the kind. Of course this is understandable. But I would be willing to guess that abortions due to rape victims are probably about 1% of the abortions performed every year in the US. I dont really see that 1% as good enough of a reason to compromise the moral stance of killing babies.
and just because a baby was an accident. doesn't mean that a man cant feel like a father towards it. It is his child too. Are you telling me that all of your children were planned? I mean, shit happens. that doesn't mean that a woman has the right to take away a mans child. It sucks, its not fair that women have to carry the child, but life isnt fair. And I think that murdering a mans child is far worse that having to go through 9 months of a pregnancy. I mean honestly, put it on a scale, which is more fucked up? If you dont want to deal with issues like this, dont have sex.
Ok,as far as the drug/alcohol/smoking goes....I get what you're saying,and i understand to a point. But,I also think this woman chose to have this kid,she needs to take care of it and herself. She's not "killing" the kid by smoking. The child has more of a chance of dying from Group B Strep than side affects of smoking. If you DONT want to have the baby,then do what you need to do,but if you choose to keep it and love it,then,IMO, you need to do whatever it takes to make it healthy.
And both of my kids were planned. :)
But I do agree, people should be more responsible. Abortion isn't something to be taken lightly. If you're not responsible,dont have sex.
dude, I dont even know why we started talking about abortion. I really dont even care. It has no affect on who I vote for. And I dont have any ambition to change anyones mind about it.
My last word will just be that if people insist on abortion being a government issue. Laws regarding abortion should be issued at the state level. Not the federal government.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 09, 2008, 03:53 AM
I just dont think the Government should have enough power to take people freedom from you. Your control over your body is your freedom. Its that simple.
one more word would only confuse
thank you
end
lol what? I just noticed my obvious grammar error in there. Is that what you are talking about?
I dunno...but I got what you were sayin.
I kind of hope Obama does win. that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all. Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.
69 per cent of europeans would ellect obama
26 would ellect mccain
in germany 83 per cent would ellect obama
That is completely irrelevant. They are not living in our country. They dont even understand the issues that are not being debated. I have no more faith in the intelligent of the masses of Europe than I do in the masses of America.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 04:56 AM
lol what? I just noticed my obvious grammar error in there. Is that what you are talking about?
na. im not gonna play teacher on a message board.
what you said is just how i feel, and everyone with a free mind and soul should adhere o those words thats all
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 11:59 AM
I kind of hope Obama does win. that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all. Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.
hope springs eternal! but to be realistic, i doubt that most americans will actually pay attention to the big issues. i find that people feel better if they can bitch about abortion and welfare and other "moral problems" rather real issues like the economy and energy. you know, the hard stuff
Quote from: goldpony on Sep 10, 2008, 06:41 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 11:59 AM
I kind of hope Obama does win. that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all. Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.
hope springs eternal! but to be realistic, i doubt that most americans will actually pay attention to the big issues. i find that people feel better if they can bitch about abortion and welfare and other "moral problems" rather real issues like the economy and energy. you know, the hard stuff
Yes. Most people only want to consume themselves with issues that can be printed in a tabloid magazine.
On the other hand, I care about drilling for oil and other types of drilling too......
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd258/Shaye_PDB/picgen-1php.jpg)
energy independence would be a really great step. One of the many that needs to happen. Just like me fucking Palin. It would be a good step in my career. But only one of many that needs to happen.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 17, 2008, 09:08 PM
energy independence would be a really great step. One of the many that needs to happen. Just like me fucking Palin. It would be a good step in my career. But only one of many that needs to happen.
lolz. gotta agree with that, even though i totally hate the beotch.
I dont see why anyone would hate her any more than any of the other candidates
Cause she's a noob.
but shes hot
Yeah..THAT'S a reason to vote for her
::)
I'm not arguing this with you again.....007
i could care less about the n00bery, she just has zero foreign policy and doesn't even know what the bush doctrine is.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 18, 2008, 01:52 AM
I'm not arguing this with you again.....007
There is nothing to argue. Its a fact. I'm a boy, you're a girl, Obama and Palin are both noobs. Its undeniable. Even your beloved Hillary said so. It is just a fact that we have to accept but probably shouldn't fixate on. Because now that we know this is who we are stuck with. We have to decide who will govern best.....BOB BARR 08!!!!!
I dont get the 007?
http://www.sharinglungs.com/index.php/topic,13068.msg599801.html#msg599801
[youtube=425,350]ez5robAWmu4&NR=1[/youtube]
ron paul on obama
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 18, 2008, 11:38 AM
http://www.sharinglungs.com/index.php/topic,13068.msg599801.html#msg599801
ahhh, I missed that. I always forget about those topics
2 things wrong with Ron Paul:
1) He's a Republican
2) He's from TEXASS!
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 11:59 AM
I kind of hope Obama does win. that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all. Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.
word. it's so sad to me that people consider themselves politically enlightened just because they chose a candidate, and based it on an opinion on a stupid issue that they probably saw on the daily show (not considering the inherent irony of the show) or cnn. sucks that we'd have to sit through 4 years of economic turmoil, though. thank fuck i'll be a rich-ass accountant by then.
aside from all of the issues i disagree with, obama just strikes me like one of those punk kids that became ever so prevalent when NOFX started hating on bush: wanting change, change, change, but are too young to actually get the big picture. i dunno, i really think we need someone with a phd in economics for president. but we're doomed to have former lawyers in nearly every political position, who are really only good at arguing and twisting words.
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 18, 2008, 04:28 PM
2 things wrong with Ron Paul:
1) He's a Republican
2) He's from TEXASS!
Ron Paul is a true Republican. Nothing like what Bush and McCain are trying to play off as the GOP today. You should check out his book. Its pretty short. You can kill it in a day or two. But it is a very accurate depiction as to what the Republican party is actually supposed to be about. You might actually find out that you like republicans more than you think.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Sep 18, 2008, 04:34 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 10, 2008, 11:59 AM
I kind of hope Obama does win. that way when the savior steps into office and nothing really changes at all. Maybe the American people will start to actually pay attention to the issues and who might actually change them.
word. it's so sad to me that people consider themselves politically enlightened just because they chose a candidate, and based it on an opinion on a stupid issue that they probably saw on the daily show (not considering the inherent irony of the show) or cnn. sucks that we'd have to sit through 4 years of economic turmoil, though. thank fuck i'll be a rich-ass accountant by then.
aside from all of the issues i disagree with, obama just strikes me like one of those punk kids that became ever so prevalent when NOFX started hating on bush: wanting change, change, change, but are too young to actually get the big picture. i dunno, i really think we need someone with a phd in economics for president. but we're doomed to have former lawyers in nearly every political position, who are really only good at arguing and twisting words.
yeah. It blows my mind how some people can talk so much shit about republicans vs democrats. But when you start to talk to them about it. They really don't have any clue as to the real differences in the parties. They just know stupid mud slinging slogans thrown out by both parties. They pretty much pick their party based on gossip and vote for all of their elected officials based on nothing. Its terrifying. ANd before anyone talks shit to me, yes I have voted for a democrat before.
oh, and I think we are in for way more than 4 years of economic crisis. you are right that we need men with more diverse education in the white house and on capitol hill. Layers are good. You need people who understand the law and the constitution to be law makers. But you need way more diversity than just lawyers. A PHD in Economics would be great right now. But he would probably need some help on some other big issues as well.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 18, 2008, 04:47 PM
yes I have voted for a democrat before.
respeck
Martin Chavez was up for re election as mayor of Albuquerque. I liked what I saw from him the past few years. Though he was better than the other guy. And thought it was in the best interest of my city to vote him back in. I did not however vote for Bill Richardson ( our governor who got some press time for endorsing obama) that guy is a tool.
The thing that just kills me...
Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".
WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.
It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?
I don't know what to make of this.
Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.
Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.
McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.
I know she was mayor of a town of 6,000 for a few years. She can see Russia from her state. Oh, and once she saw a blimp.
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 19, 2008, 02:09 PM
The thing that just kills me...
Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".
WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.
It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?
I don't know what to make of this.
Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.
Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.
McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.
YES!! Someone that feels the same way! WOOT! I've argued this over and over in this thread....
palin...
ass we can believe in
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 19, 2008, 02:09 PM
The thing that just kills me...
Is that Sarah Palin has become this overnight sensation. And 90% of the time, I hear people judging her looks. I can't even tell you how many guys I've heard say something along the lines of, "I'd totally bang that chick".
WTF? Is this criteria for picking a leader now? It seems to me that no one stopped to think that if McCain croaks while in office, this woman becomes our president. PRESIDENT. Is everyone ok with that? Would people vote for her to be the actual president if she was running? If yes, well I guess that leaves Obama off the hook on that whole "lack of experience" bullshit people were peddling.
It's terrifying to me, to see the popularity this woman has gained based on her looks, and her pregnant teenage daughter, and the fact that she had a tanning bed installed in her governor's mansion. She's a nobody. Can anyone honestly tell me they've known much of anything about her prior to her being selected for VP?
I don't know what to make of this.
Politicians are politicians. They're all basically the same. They cater to big money machines like corporations, and special interest groups. And you can't even be mad at them for it. The American Public allows this happen everyday. These people are supposed to be representing us, NOT the other way around.
Obama might be spouting off about "change" and though no one is clear about what that means yet, I'm willing to take my chances.
McCain, and this is just my opinion, just leaves me with a feeling that NOTHING (that matters) will change at all and that's just unacceptable. Trey is right. We're in for more than we bargained for. A turnaround is going to take time. Things will get worse before they get better anyway. And maybe it's a good thing, it may just force the citizens of this country to take back the power. To make some decisions about the way our future turns out instead of letting it fall into the hands of politicians.
Very good post Shaye. My defense of Palin in this thread can probably easily be misinterpreted. I dont care for her at all. My defense of her is simply to mirror her to Obama in that neither of them are ready, or should be in this election.
The fact that there is so much at stake in this election, yet we polarize on these nugatory and hebetudinous issues only proves that Americans are either idiots, dont care at all about the future of their country (making them selfish idiots) or are so used to being lied to that they dont even recognize lies anymore, and need to be exposed to some truth so that they can get passionate and care again.
I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part. Except the part about Obama. He claims change, but is offering none. I dont think it is wise to vote for him based on those lies. Obviously either Obama or McCain will be the next president. But that is due to the massive amount of people who dont know any better than to vote for one of them. I see it as the responsibility of those of us who do know to vote for a candidate who is willing to address these issues. I dont feel that voting for the best candidate is a waste of my vote. I feel that voting for the lesser of two evils is a waste of my vote. I cant even figure out who is the lesser anyways. They are almost identical. Obama is just more auspicious. But if a large % of the vote went to 3rd party candidates. Maybe that would wake Washington up a little bit. Make them try to address some of those issues as they realize America is waking up and they will eventually need our votes. It might also prompt the people who have never really looked outside of the Democrats or Republicans to wonder why so many people support candidates who have no chance of winning, and maybe do some research.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 20, 2008, 12:55 PM
I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part. Except the part about Obama. He claims change, but is offering none.
I see what you mean, but this is my take on the situation at hand.
I already don't like most things about McCain/Palin so that's why I said I'd rather take my chances with Obama.
I think a more clearer definition of the "change" Obama plans to make, will come to light during the debates, or at least I hope so. I think he's been sort of vague about a lot of things, and I don't like that necessarily but feel like maybe there's a reason behind it. Maybe he just wants to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the political drama as much as possible, and then really let more detailed ideas and opinions about things come out at the debates. I mean, look how far he has gotten by just saying "change" without implying what that change will be.
Maybe this isn't the case, but I think it's a possibility.
Someone in his position is not on solid ground right now. He is one step away from being the first black president of the US, and coming into office with A LOT of issues to attend to, if he is elected. I feel like everyone, probably even some of his supporters are just waiting for him to make a mistake, do something wrong, say something wrong etc. With all that's at stake here, he has to tread lightly but keep enough of a balance where people still remember who he is and have an idea of what he stands for.
Remember what happened to Howard Dean? The guy was doing pretty well, at least he was on the rise. Next thing you know, all he had to do was swing his fist through the air, and scream "YEEEAAAAAAHHH", and he was torn to shreds. Gone. Just a funny video on Youtube now. A joke.
So that's why I think maybe Obama hasn't gotten too specific on some things. He doesn't want to take the chance of ruining what he's achieved so far over something silly. Especially being that he's made it as far as he has by being a little more vague. I think the debates will bring more answers.
I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.
Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head
I'd say NEITHER of them can truly make a change...no matter what shit they say. I honestly think they're saying what we want to hear,but in the end,nothing will change!
Obama's leading in some key states right now though. Cept Ohio I think it was...in which neither of them were accounted for.
Ohio = the armpit of America
But isn't that a key state?
yeah it is politically, but otherwise...yuck
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 20, 2008, 10:56 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 20, 2008, 12:55 PM
I agree with the rest of your post and thought it was very well put, not need to elaborate on my part. Except the part about Obama. He claims change, but is offering none.
I see what you mean, but this is my take on the situation at hand.
I already don't like most things about McCain/Palin so that's why I said I'd rather take my chances with Obama.
I think a more clearer definition of the "change" Obama plans to make, will come to light during the debates, or at least I hope so. I think he's been sort of vague about a lot of things, and I don't like that necessarily but feel like maybe there's a reason behind it. Maybe he just wants to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the political drama as much as possible, and then really let more detailed ideas and opinions about things come out at the debates. I mean, look how far he has gotten by just saying "change" without implying what that change will be.
Maybe this isn't the case, but I think it's a possibility.
Someone in his position is not on solid ground right now. He is one step away from being the first black president of the US, and coming into office with A LOT of issues to attend to, if he is elected. I feel like everyone, probably even some of his supporters are just waiting for him to make a mistake, do something wrong, say something wrong etc. With all that's at stake here, he has to tread lightly but keep enough of a balance where people still remember who he is and have an idea of what he stands for.
Remember what happened to Howard Dean? The guy was doing pretty well, at least he was on the rise. Next thing you know, all he had to do was swing his fist through the air, and scream "YEEEAAAAAAHHH", and he was torn to shreds. Gone. Just a funny video on Youtube now. A joke.
So that's why I think maybe Obama hasn't gotten too specific on some things. He doesn't want to take the chance of ruining what he's achieved so far over something silly. Especially being that he's made it as far as he has by being a little more vague. I think the debates will bring more answers.
:) shaye, you're great to talk to about these kinds of things. But I think you are being very , very optimistic and trusting towards Obama. Probably based on desperation to actually have a politician who gives a fuck for once( just a guess?)
You're right. There really isn't much to like about the McCain / Palin ticket anymore. Unless you are super caught up in the minor issues and dont understand that the pilgrims didn't write the constitution. But I dont see that as a reason to just give my vote to Obama even if he doesn't deserve it.
You bring up a good point about him just trying to stay out of the bull shit until he has to in the debates. I have thought about that too. But that doesn't mean that he cant release documents about future policies if he is elected. He even constantly talks about what he feels with be his big two accomplishments in his administration ( Iraq-Afghanistan and universal health care ) His policies on both are not only laughable, but soberingly scary. He not only NEVER wants to completely pull out of Iraq. He wants to start more fighting within the extremely hostile tribal areas in Pakistan. In my pretty educated ( on this subject ) opinion, that is going to put us so far into the hole in the middle east, that we might not be able to pull out at all within our life times. :( He also wants to make government even bigger, and give beaurocrats control over personal health care.....what? How is that securing my liberty? How is that change? More government control was one of the biggest accomplishments of the Bush administration ( the patriot act ) How is giving the government more control, change?
My thing is. That there're are politicians out there who have laid out clean and precise policies and plans. I think it is pretty obvious that I have a love affair with Ron Paul. But compare him to Obama. Dr. Paul has literally laid out a plan for every aspect that he would be in charge of if he was president. Detailed and specific plans. Yet he still has a huge base of popularity. I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office. You know what I mean?
I honestly dont think Obama has a clue about what real change is. I think that someone on his campaign just saw that people are very unhappy with the nation right now, and figured no one could argue with wanting change, so they ran with it. The beginning of his life might have been pretty common, and not of the usual pedigree of most politicians. But he did his real growing up IN the system. Colombia? Harvard law? yeah, you better believe he rubbed shoulders with, and was influenced by all the usual personalities we find in both of our parties. He is trying to say that he is different because of his beginnings, but he chose the path most traveled a long time ago. I have a feeling he will continue to be very vague in the debates. Because either way, people are going to vote for him just because he isnt McCain. No matter how foolish that is.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 21, 2008, 03:24 AM
I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.
Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head
I think the most we can hope for from anyone elected right now would be to put us on the right path. Neither of them have the balls to REALLY shake things up and try to radically change Washington. But even the more radical 3rd parties could not competely impliment their plans in 4 or maybe even 8 years. We are simply too fucked up.
My question though, would be. What exatly are you hoping - expecting Obama to change?
and he definatly should have waited. America deserves their first black president to be someone who is ready. Not someone who will be a political flop. Obama doesnt have enough of his own clout right now. He is just a puppet of all the old war horses in the democratic party. Already you can see examples of Biden cutting him off and pretty much telling him to STFU noob. And he is too scared of loosing his historical election, and place in history, to stand up to them. He will be yet another figure head ( like Bush ) not a true leder of the country. Once again our leadership will be pimped out to the highest bidder. All of which might have been able to be avoided had he just waited to develop more.
well then aren't there people voting for McCain just because he's not Obama?
Quote from: Variable on Sep 21, 2008, 05:05 AM
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 21, 2008, 03:24 AM
I am crazy for Obama, obviously, but part of me is starting to worry about his timing. I remember Variable mentioning awhile back that he should have perhaps waited till 2012.
This is all stemming from a show I just watched on History Channel about FDR, but when he came into office, shit was bad (Great Depression). So he introduced the New Deal which in reality did not do anything to change the depression; it just gave the illusion that he was doing something. So what are the odds Obama, or McCain for that matter if he gets elected, do begin to change anything like they say? Will there be new programs that produce jobs like the New Deal? But either way, will they be effective 4 years from now, come re-election time?
Or hell, maybe we can have more war to boost the economy like WWII.
Again, I dont know...I'm just speculating here off the top of my head
I think the most we can hope for from anyone elected right now would be to put us on the right path. Neither of them have the balls to REALLY shake things up and try to radically change Washington. But even the more radical 3rd parties could not competely impliment their plans in 4 or maybe even 8 years. We are simply too fucked up.
My question though, would be. What exatly are you hoping - expecting Obama to change?
and he definatly should have waited. America deserves their first black president to be someone who is ready. Not someone who will be a political flop. Obama doesnt have enough of his own clout right now. He is just a puppet of all the old war horses in the democratic party. Already you can see examples of Biden cutting him off and pretty much telling him to STFU noob. And he is too scared of loosing his historical election, and place in history, to stand up to them. He will be yet another figure head ( like Bush ) not a true leder of the country. Once again our leadership will be pimped out to the highest bidder. All of which might have been able to be avoided had he just waited to develop more.
I see where you're coming from with that, I just hope things will run better come 2009. But as for "change", I don't know anymore, right now I just want shit to get better here. Right now I think we need to lower unemployment and get off oil (or at least get the companies to friggin stop price gouging)
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 21, 2008, 05:05 AM
well then aren't there people voting for McCain just because he's not Obama?
oh for sure. But I dont think in the same numbers as the other way around ( thats why every time you hear the democrats talk about McCain they say "4 more years of Bush" at least 6 times) and also, I havent seen any of those people post here. So I cant call them fools until they do ;)
Ok...so who watched 60 minutes last night and saw McCain and Obama get seriously questioned?
Discuss...
Quote from: Variable on Sep 21, 2008, 04:58 AM
I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office. You know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 01:07 PM
Ok...so who watched 60 minutes last night and saw McCain and Obama get seriously questioned?
Discuss...
I didnt see it! lol I dont even own at TV! tell me about it. ill see what I can find on their web site
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 01:15 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 21, 2008, 04:58 AM
I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office. You know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...
well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree. I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all. I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either. But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote. That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart. They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties. That is in no way a choice. The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle. Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president. Thats it. Not for who has the best chance of winning. For who will be the best. I think there is a lot of logic in that. Of course this person will not win. But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games. In 8, maybe 12 years. A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate. They might be a front runner because people showed and interest. Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes. It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform. and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to. At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you. I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.
oh I found the videos. They will take a while to upload. at least until tomorrw.
yeah i didnt watch 60 minutes, someone please tell me what they grilled them about
The last time I watched 60 min ( maybe 3 weeks ago ) there was a story about US bombings in Afghanistan. The whole story was totall horse shit. I know from direct first hand experience. I spent a lot of time getting shot at in the very valley they were in. They were trying to pitch these people as being peaceful , loving, porr victims of US bombings. Its total horse shit. These are very bad people. Even the Afghans ( who were convinced these people were good at first ) were amazed at how evil these people were. There are two different factions of Taliban in the valley, and one faction of HIG ( a fact they failed to mention in the report) thats a lot of bad guys. And when they are not shooting at us, they are shooting at each other . Every fucking night those guys were fighting with each other, its all they wanted to do. I cant even tell you how many times we literally could have blown up that entire valley because it erupted so bad, but didnt out of good conscious. These people will shoot at a convoy with their kids standing right next to them, hoping you will shoot back and kill their kid so they can use it against you.
The report talked about how the bombing killed a bunch of innocent civilians, but no bad guys. They failed to mention that those bombings took place sometime around june or july of 2007. Later around august and September of 2007 we were able to push into the valley on foot. We uncovered a system of tunnels that went from house to house. So bad guys could run into a house with children, duck out into a tunnel, and let the house get bombed. Then call 60 min and talk about how horrible the US is. The whole report was wrong, every single thing about it was wrong. I could go on and on about how even the small fact were wrong. It is very sick actually. Very disturbing to think that Americans are made to believe this about their military.
in other words, I dont have much love for 60 min
Quote from: Variable on Sep 22, 2008, 01:50 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 01:15 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 21, 2008, 04:58 AM
I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office. You know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...
well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree. I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all. I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either. But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote. That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart. They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties. That is in no way a choice. The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle. Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president. Thats it. Not for who has the best chance of winning. For who will be the best. I think there is a lot of logic in that. Of course this person will not win. But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games. In 8, maybe 12 years. A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate. They might be a front runner because people showed and interest. Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes. It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform. and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to. At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you. I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.
LOLZ!
I feel like I can't ever explain myself properly to you. ;)
I agree with what you're saying. Third party voting is exactly what the Republicans and Democrats would love to see us ignore. I'm saying it's a waste of a vote just because of that. Because there isn't going to be a sudden awakening for this election. I'd love to vote for another party, especially if there was someone in place who I really thought was on the right track. But it's pretty clear at this point that this race is going to come down to McCain vs. Obama and so I'm at least going to vote for the the one out of those 2 that I'd rather see in office, you know?
I know, that there are even a few policies about Obama that I don't like (i.e. the socialized healthcare plan- although something does need to be done), and I know you certainly could point out a bunch of similarities between the 2 of them.
However, and I'm reluctant to say this because it can easily get misinterpreted, but one of the major differences between McCain and Obama that I find to be very important is their overall demeanor. Their body language, the way they carry themselves, the way they speak. I think you can tell a lot about someone by looking at those things. Those characteristics have a lot to do with the way they deal with problems. Obama takes the win on that one, IMO.
I can say, that if Palin hadn't been selected as VP for McCain I might have been willing to invest more of myself in him up until election time.
What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...
Really? Really? Out of all the people he could have picked, he thought an unknown, smalltime governor of Alaska who has no insight into National economcs and foreign policy, could be the BEST choice? That's insane.
That right there, is terrible decisions making on his part. If he honestly believes that, he's a fool. And if he was just saying it, to make himself look good then he's also a fool, a liar, and someone who doesn't have much regard for the citizens of this country and their well being.
I definitely recommend watching that 60 minutes special, it was very entertaining.
Man, I'm writing novels up in here. :)
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 05:50 PM
What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...
EL OH EL!!!
I can see how the candidates carry themselves as an important issue to some people, I totally agree with you. Just look at our current president and how he's carried himself in speeches and in his demeanor. Now does that directly correlate with how they make decisions? I believe in an essence, it does somewhat. And McCain just seems like a zombie to me most of the time. I also get the impression that he is just reading cue cards when he's talking (I really can't wait till the upcoming VP and presidential debates). Also, while on the subject, IMO some of the questions to Palin are odd. She seems like SHE is being fed information...I just don't get it.
I think the debates will open people's eyes and give everyone a true impression of them (including Obama and Biden), but personally, I would love to see more actual interviews of the Republican candidates on other networks. Palin's one interview with Charlie Gibson seemed a little soft, even though it was the source of the great "I can see Russia from my state" quote. But I know Obama and Biden have been on Fox News, Obama actually was interviewed by the legendary (*vomit*) Bill O'Reilly. Why do we not see more of these types of interviews from everyone?
i agree with pretty much everything that variable has been spittin in this thread. i'm pretty sure that i'm gonna vote for ron paul; i don't know why mccain didn't choose him or fred thompson for vp, incredibly short sighted. i don't think palin is as bad as everyone is saying though. i think that the campaign season needs to be shortened to around 6 weeks, so we don't have to listen to all this shit slinging and speculatory bullshit.
Fred Thompson?? Seriously? He's a joke!
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 05:52 PM
Man, I'm writing novels up in here. :)
hey, you and me both
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 05:50 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 22, 2008, 01:50 PM
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 22, 2008, 01:15 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 21, 2008, 04:58 AM
I am a bit weary of a candidate who feels the need to hide his policies because he thinks it is going to hurt his chances of getting into office. You know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. The problem is that I WILL NOT vote for McCain, so my choices are limited. I refuse to just not vote at all. And I wont waste a vote on third party. So what to do? There's only one option left...
well, that is where you and I are going to have to totally disagree. I cant blame you for not wanting to vote for McCain at all. I wont even ask why ( although im pretty sure that if I did, I could show you how Obama shares the majority of the qualities and policies that McCain does) Which is why I wont vote for Obama either. But the spot where we disagree is that a 3rd party is not a waste of a vote. That is a dirty nasty lie straight from the minds of the Bureaucrat ass holes who have torn this country apart. They want you to think that the only options are these like minded and inept individuals chosen, not by the american people, but by the deligates of the parties. That is in no way a choice. The real waste of a vote ( in my opinion ) is to give into their game and their lies and continue to perpetuate the cycle. Im going to vote for who I think will be the best president. Thats it. Not for who has the best chance of winning. For who will be the best. I think there is a lot of logic in that. Of course this person will not win. But if enough people come to their sense and start voting like that, and get out of the lies and games. In 8, maybe 12 years. A "3rd party" candidate might no longer be a 3rd party candidate. They might be a front runner because people showed and interest. Maybe if a 3rd party gets enough votes. It will scare the two big parties into a bit of reform. and the 2012 elections might actually be worth paying attention to. At the very least, it will send a clear message to these people, that YOU are done letting them play you. I am no pawn of any political agenda, and I will not vote like I am.
LOLZ!
I feel like I can't ever explain myself properly to you. ;)
I agree with what you're saying. Third party voting is exactly what the Republicans and Democrats would love to see us ignore. I'm saying it's a waste of a vote just because of that. Because there isn't going to be a sudden awakening for this election. I'd love to vote for another party, especially if there was someone in place who I really thought was on the right track. But it's pretty clear at this point that this race is going to come down to McCain vs. Obama and so I'm at least going to vote for the the one out of those 2 that I'd rather see in office, you know?
I know, that there are even a few policies about Obama that I don't like (i.e. the socialized healthcare plan- although something does need to be done), and I know you certainly could point out a bunch of similarities between the 2 of them.
However, and I'm reluctant to say this because it can easily get misinterpreted, but one of the major differences between McCain and Obama that I find to be very important is their overall demeanor. Their body language, the way they carry themselves, the way they speak. I think you can tell a lot about someone by looking at those things. Those characteristics have a lot to do with the way they deal with problems. Obama takes the win on that one, IMO.
I can say, that if Palin hadn't been selected as VP for McCain I might have been willing to invest more of myself in him up until election time.
What really pissed me off in the 60 minutes interview yesterday was something McCain said in regards to Palin...
He was basically asked (and don't quote me on this) why he chose Palin as his VP. I believe the interviewer said something about how it was obviously a great marketing technique to choose Palin. McCain pretty much said that, NO, he chose her because he thought she was the best decision for VP of the United States...
Really? Really? Out of all the people he could have picked, he thought an unknown, smalltime governor of Alaska who has no insight into National economcs and foreign policy, could be the BEST choice? That's insane.
That right there, is terrible decisions making on his part. If he honestly believes that, he's a fool. And if he was just saying it, to make himself look good then he's also a fool, a liar, and someone who doesn't have much regard for the citizens of this country and their well being.
I definitely recommend watching that 60 minutes special, it was very entertaining.
I hear what you are saying. But you missed my point on the 3rd party candidates just a little bit ( or maybe not ) But what I am trying to say is that if everyone sits around and waits for everyone else to start voting for a 3rd party. It will never happen. That is why it hasn't happened yet, and that is why it will never happen. Unless people take a moral stand and quit worrying about who is going to win, and they just vote for the best candidate. No matter what, If Obama or McCain or Obama wins, America loses. Who gives a fuck if you came in 8th or 9th place? If you aint first, you're last ;) Voting for a third party and letting the republicrats know that we are done with their game is the only logical choice for me. If everyone who wanted to do it, but was just waiting until a 3rd party had more support, did it. You might be surprised at who our next president was.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 22, 2008, 07:15 PM
I can see how the candidates carry themselves as an important issue to some people, I totally agree with you. Just look at our current president and how he's carried himself in speeches and in his demeanor. Now does that directly correlate with how they make decisions? I believe in an essence, it does somewhat. And McCain just seems like a zombie to me most of the time. I also get the impression that he is just reading cue cards when he's talking (I really can't wait till the upcoming VP and presidential debates). Also, while on the subject, IMO some of the questions to Palin are odd. She seems like SHE is being fed information...I just don't get it.
I think the debates will open people's eyes and give everyone a true impression of them (including Obama and Biden), but personally, I would love to see more actual interviews of the Republican candidates on other networks. Palin's one interview with Charlie Gibson seemed a little soft, even though it was the source of the great "I can see Russia from my state" quote. But I know Obama and Biden have been on Fox News, Obama actually was interviewed by the legendary (*vomit*) Bill O'Reilly. Why do we not see more of these types of interviews from everyone?
If you're looking for more from Palin during debates. You probably still won't hear much of anything but talking points from her. They've pretty much changed the rules for the VP debates to favor her:
"The Obama and McCain campaigns have agreed to an unusual free-flowing format for the three televised presidential debates, which begin on Friday, but the McCain camp fought for and won a much more structured approach for the questioning at the vice-presidential debate, advisers to both campaigns said Saturday.
At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.
McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.
The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.
Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the vice-presidential candidates. Last week, it rejected a proposal from advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, for few if any unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=5&hp=&oref=login&adxnnlx=1221944424-M80ol3HyyXHv4YOA0dtK0w&pagewanted=all
She hasn't been doing too much press because she IS being fed information. She makes no decisions for herself and the McCain campaign are keeping their claws in her pretty deep. I'm sure it has been said here before (I haven't read the entire thread to be honest) but don't expect too much from her. She is a puppet.
that's gayer than eight guys blowing nine
lol @ "Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format."
This whole thing is such a joke
Quote from: Variable on Sep 23, 2008, 11:07 AM
This whole thing is such a joke
Yup... It's really getting ridiculous...
And i thought at first Obama was different, and wouldn't play that stupid game...
Well, guess what ? I was wrong...
Still, I'd pick Obama - Biden any day over McCain and his stupid cunt
I will proudly vote for neither
lol @ obamas very first answer " If we had a regulatory system that had kept pace with the changes in the financial system. That would have had an enormous impact on containing the problems that are out there"
wow senator. can you now please define the word vague for us simple folk who you are speaking to as idiots?
So...they're changing the debate rules because of Palin??
I don't think there is really an official debate format for the VP debates. I mean, Lincoln Douglas debates make sense I guess. But then again, I would rather the candidates just be asked a question, have more than enough time to answer yet show restraint. Then the other candidate have a chance to respond the same. But I guess that level of thinking doesn't exist yet.
I'm getting spent on this discussion as a whole.
Trey, you tired me out, and wore me down....ha. :P
grrrr baby.
does that mean I win?
Quote from: Variable on Sep 23, 2008, 01:25 PM
grrrr baby.
does that mean I win?
No no no. This is not over...
looks like it is
Take a stand shaye. Vote 3rd party.
Green party
I havent really done much looking into her. I probably should.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 23, 2008, 09:19 PM
Take a stand shaye. Vote 3rd party.
Maybe I will... :P
;)
Anybody watch the debate last night? I thought Obama did very well, especially on foreign policy surprisingly. McCain came across as a lying smart ass; it was nice. Also noticed that he couldn't even make eye contact once with Obama.
I watched it,and was quite impressed with Obama as well. I did notice that McCain kept smiling at everything,like it was a joke. Obama was calm and well put together.
I didnt watch. But I heard from some unbias people that they were very impressed with both candidates. They actually made note that McCain did better than they though he would have.
Did they actually talk about issues though? Or was it one big massive bull shit fest?
The debate was pretty even to me. Obama was the underdog competing with McCains long history of tea parties with foreign leaders. However, I did notice the eye contact thing...could it be McCain is intimidated by a young buck turning the tables?
Anyways, it was quite obvious that McCain's main strategy (or tactic, hehe) was to repeatedly say that Obama "just doesn't understand." I was actually quite annoyed (and insulted) at how ignorant the McCain camp expects the average American to be. I wonder which one of his wife's seven homes he goes home to after working hard for the middle class. Hypocrisy with a capital H. I felt Obama came out as the more intelligent (not elite, though I see nothing wrong with a president that's smarter than the average American-shouldn't everyone want that?), collected individual in this debate. McCain just seemed to be throwing dramatic insults (more of the same political theater).
I agree with Obama's idea of actually having common discourse with our enemies before threatening nukes. I think one of the biggest problems with our country (and why most countries consider us assholes) is because we act as though any way of thinking that is different than ours forbids a mutually respectful discourse to resolve conflicts.
As far as third parties are concerned, I certainly would agree with some of them. However it is almost as if the Republicans are paying them off because recent history shows that they mainly steal the small needed amount of votes from democrats needed to win an election...and guess who that gives the office to? ::)
Realistically, they don't have a strong enough standing in the political spectrum yet and I would much rather have a Dem in office than another Republican.
Also I must say that I cannot wait for the VP debates. I was gonna watch Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle but I'll watch that debate instead...I think it will actually be more funny ;D
I dont get everybodys fascination with insulting McCain for being rich. He has led a successful life. I don't want some beer drinking , football watching, average joe to be president. I want a successful man. Obama isn't exactly your average joe either. He went to Colombia and Harvard for crying out loud. And dont give me this "rough beginnings" so he understands the average American crap. His rough beginnings did not even take place in America. He can probably relate less with the average inner city black kid less than I can. Both of these men had moments of humility in their lives. But they grew up to live lives of luxury. Now they both think they know how to help all of us live better lives. Why cant we just accept that instead of trying to make them seem either average or elite?
I didn't watch the debate ( ill probably go upload it right now ) but I seriously doubt that John McCain feels intimidated by Obama at all. He was probably just trying to focus on his talking points. McCain doesn't seem like the kind of guy who can do impromptu speeches very well to me. He probably had practiced answers for just about anything they could ask him over and over and over again. Im sure Obama did the same to a point. But he seems more like a on the fly kind of guy to me. Just a guess though
And saying that republicans pay off 3rd party candidates is just beyond stupid. These people spend so much time and money on campaigns that they know they will never win. Because they believe in something. They believe in a better country, a better way to govern. They are just trying to get the message out. I was a republican, now I am voting 3rd party. Ron Paul is a republican who has a huge following and endorsed a 3rd party candidate. That is taking votes away from the GOP.
Not voting for them because they aren't going to win is missing the point. If you want to sit there and continue playing this bull shit game then fine. But dont ger angry when the politicians continue to play their bull shit games and feed you their bull shit lies after you chose to play along.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 28, 2008, 04:29 AM
And saying that republicans pay off 3rd party candidates is just beyond stupid. These people spend so much time and money on campaigns that they know they will never win. Because they believe in something. They believe in a better country, a better way to govern. They are just trying to get the message out. I was a republican, now I am voting 3rd party. Ron Paul is a republican who has a huge following and endorsed a 3rd party candidate. That is taking votes away from the GOP.
Not voting for them because they aren't going to win is missing the point. If you want to sit there and continue playing this bull shit game then fine. But dont ger angry when the politicians continue to play their bull shit games and feed you their bull shit lies after you chose to play along.
at this point in time it is a waste of a vote. and will continue to be a waste until the media gives every candidate equal time and attention. i'm there are alot (far to many) people you couldn't tell you a single 3rd party candidate. your average joe watches fox new and cnn and see 90% (if not more) coverae on the main 2. they form there opinions on them forgetting or never knowing the rest. no matter how many people think like you and vote 3rd party hoping to open up some eyes it wont help. unless in some unbelieble event a 3rd party where to win. but a 3rd party getting a lot of votes and still not coming any where close to winning...the majority wont even notice.
Ok kids. I finally watched the debate and made a play by play analysis of the whole thing. I know its long. But I tried to put a lot of though and effort into it. I tried to be fair and open minded too. I hope someone enjoys.
ok. On the first question about the bail out. I was disappointed with both candidates for being so vague. Then also going off on issues that were not related to the question.
Obama blamed Bush for this crisis. Blamed the "trickle down" policy of Bush for the crisis. If he honestly believes that, then he has no clue about what caused this problem. That this has been a work in progress for a very long time. However McCain did not pick up on this. Did not call Obama out, did not defend himself, didn't even address the real issue. What caused this, not what is the temporary fix. So to me, that says that McCain also has no clue about what actually caused the problem.
Obama then came back talking about his warnings about the abuse of the low interest rates taking advantage of homeowners and how he wrote to the secretary of the treasury. McCain had no such claim. McCain SAID a lot of good things. But he did not defend himself well, and had no history of addressing this issue prior to it blowing up. Although they both really lacked on this issue. I give it to Obama.
Obama 1, McCain 0
The second question asked was related to the first question. How do the two candidates differ fundamentally on how to fix the economy?
Well this portion was very revealing about the candidates. We hear stuff like this every election. Cutting taxes ( even though we are in debt and fighting two wars ) and getting spending under control. So why should we take either of these guys serious? Listen to what they say and read between the lines.
McCain started off talking about getting spending under control but did not list even one way that he proposed to do so. I would not expect spending to get any lower if McCain was elected. He did however promise to Veto any and "every single spending bill that came across his desk" And that he will make the names of those who proposed the bill known. He then brought up the nine hundred and thirty two million dollars has aske for in his term in the senate. He also took responsibility as a republican and said that the Republican Party has not been acting like the republican party. That Washington changed the party.
Obama defended himself by saying that he suspended those request until the corruption in Washington could be cleaned up. Then Obama started to show his lack of knowledge about how the global economy works. He is focusing on what he perceives to be fair instead of what will work. He is accusing McCain of doing something wrong when McCain wants to give major corporation tax breaks. Obama says he wants to build the economy from the bottom up. Well, I don't believe it works like that. You don't have to believe in the Trickle down theory that prosperity will trickle down. But misery and poverty sure will. If the big business go down, so do the little people ( hints why we have such a huge government buy out on the table right now) Everyone loses if our corporation lose. Obama is not thinking globally. He is thinking only about the American economy. But we are in a global economy. His thinking is out dated. Our corporations have to be able to compete with corporations whose countries are taxing them fractions of what we are taxing them. 95% of America can take on that tax bourdon without paying much out of our pocket because there is so many of us. We might save a couple hundred dollars to maybe a couple thousand a year. Obama himself even said that the saved money might be able to buy 1 computer or a little extra gas. But what about the people who will lose jobs when the corporations take on these tax bourdons?
McCain then accused Obama of wanting to spend nearly 800 billion more dollars on top of what we are already spending a year. (Probably an over exaggeration) Obama defends himself by making some very misleading comments. He tries to sell off his health care plan as if it is not going to cost more money than anyone can possibly predict. He will be making government much larger with that plan. Spending as much money as is required to treat everyone in America year after year. That is not cutting spending. He also said he would go line by line of the budget and cut out earmarks and unnecessary spending. That is a plain and simple lie. The National budget is something like 50,000 pages front and back. No one could sit down and read all of that if they dedicated all of their time for 4 years straight. Senator Obama, Saving the middle class a couple hundred of dollars a year will not save the economy. Spending more money when our country is trillions of dollars in debt will not help the economy. Strangling our corporations with taxes will not save or economy. You are showing your idealism instead of wisdom. McCain wins this one without question. Obama, you are a democrat. Democrats classically believe in bigger government and more spending. Stop trying to pretend that you are something you are not. Most Democrats don't mind paying a little more into the pot if their money goes to social programs.
Obama 1 - McCain 1
Question three. Which of your priorities will you have to give up in order to pay for this financial bailout?
Both of the candidates did a horrible Job answering this question. They stated what they thought was important and what they did not want to give up rather than what they would sacrifice. Finally McCain said a freeze on all spending except for the defense budget and Veterans benefits. Obama opposed this saying that a freeze doesn't make any sense because while those things are important, too many non important programs have excess money. And too many important programs do not have enough money. Obama then shined through after McCain stated he has a long record of opposing spending. Obama brought up that McCain supported all of President Bush's increases in spending. McCain had no answer for this other than "I'm a maverick and Sarah Palin is a Maverick too" Cheap political games Senator McCain. I was going to call this round a pathetic tie seeing as how the question really didnt get answered. But Obama did say that it is hard to say because no one knows how the market will respond. Then he totally nailed McCain with that last comment, and McCain nailed himself when he assumed we are all too stupid to see through his lack of an answer by calling himself a maverick and bringing Palin into the picture. That is the first BIG mistake I have noticed so far.
Obama 2 - McCain 1
Question four. Remembering the lessons learned from Vietnam. What are the lessons to be learned from the war in Iraq?
This is a pretty easy one to sum up. McCain started talking about how he was right about certain strategies and tactics. Did not touch the question about LESSONS learned. Obama's reply was that the major lesson to learn from the war in Iraq is that the President needs to be careful and responsible about how he deploys our troops. They then went on to argue many points about who said what and who supported what that did or did not work. But McCain never once acknowledged that it was a mistake to go to Iraq, that we are no safer for being there, and that the war has not only not benefited the US at all, but hurt us as well. It seems as though senator McCain has learned no lesson from the war in Iraq. Through all the diversion and babbling I was able to summarize this.
McCain says that the lesson to be learned is to send enough troops and have a good strategy from the start
Obaba says that we should be more careful and not rush into wars.
Obama 3 - McCain 1
Question Five. Do we need more troops in Afghanistan? How many for how long and when?
This question turned more into a debate about strategy to win the war in Afghanistan besides just adding more troops. It was a bit of a battle over staying in, or pulling out of Iraq. It was also a bit of a battle over Pakistan and if we should violate their autonomy by striking on their soil without their consent. Senator McCain finally outshined Obama here. He seems to have a much better understanding of counter insurgency operations than Senator Obama. McCain also repeatedly said that he would let General Petraeus and the other ground commanders take the lead and make the strategy. Obama seemed to think he was more qualified to run the show than the generals. They both agree that the tribal areas of Pakistan are a huge threat ( I do too ) But McCain wants to win the people of Pakistan over to get them to take care of their own country. Obama wants to sit on the border and hunt for bad guys. Then violate the sovereignty of a nation and attack on their soil without their consent. As if we Americans would stand for such a thing.
Obama 3 – McCain 2
Question Six. What is your reading of the current threat of Iran to the US?
Both candidates agreed that Iran as a nuclear power is a threat, and can't be allowed to exist. This question turned into a debate over whether or not we should sit and have face to face talks with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Especially with no pre conditions. Obama favors opening up the lines of communication and sitting down with the President of Iran to condemn his actions and words face to face and try to come up with a diplomatic solution through a series of meetings. McCain claims that this would legitimize a man who makes comments about the genocide of Israel. McCain favors starting a new organization of democracies to meet and implement sanctions on Iran. He feels that the UN can't act properly because of Russia's influence and vote. McCain seems to forget history and how isolating dictators has not been successful. Also that starting up new allied organizations is dangerous, and will eventually either lead to a failure of the new organization or a war with countries who feel threatened by the alliance. McCain seems to feel he has no chance of being diplomatic with Iran or Russia. He doesn't feel he can talk either of them into coming to a common ground with the US. Obama showed a lot of wisdom here. Although he did lose his cool and became obviously frustrated and angry with McCain for continuously attacking and misinterpreting his statement.
Obama 4 – McCain 2
Question seven. How do you see the US relationship with Russia?
I was disappointed that both candidates seem to agree that we should be enforcing our will on foreign nations and that even though we are in trillions of dollars of debt that it was ok to give billions to Georgia. Both candidates seem to believe in nation building in the region. Yet earlier they were both talking about less spending. Now they are spending more through a forced transfer of wealth to a foreign nation? When will the US learn that it is not our job to control and police the entire world? The job and responsibility of the US government is to the people of the US. Our tax dollars should go to helping us. I call this one a tie because they were so closely aligned and neither of them shined with anything significant or brilliant to say.
Obama 4 – McCain 2
Question eight. What do you think is the likelihood of another 911 - type attack on the US?
McCain really asserted his military experience and broad experience with foreign policy. He seemed very intelligent and well informed. He was very comfortable and confident. I think Obama lacked on this issue. He did not have the grit and resolve that McCain had. McCain made many statements about national security through victory in Iraq. How if we are not successful in Iraq it will empower our enemies ( he is more than likely right ) McCain's whole outlook on the issue seemed to be security though the military. Although Obama did not shine as much on this issue. I think if you really listen to his words and try to understand what he was saying. He actually had the better statement. He wants to be successful in our endeavors abroad too. But he feels that going into such huge debt has weakened our ability to protect ourselves ( is definitely true) He also feels that restoring America's image as a nation that represents Freedom , Liberty, The Pursuit of happiness, and a chance to make something of yourself when you have nothing. That the world will be a safer place for America and Americans. He feels that a lot of countries see us as an empire trying to conquer their land. So they are fighting back. I believe that he touched to bigger issues here. Of course we have to succeed in the wars we already started. But we need to prevent going into more debt as much as possible or else we will fail no matter how successful we are in Iraq. Also that if we don't start to represent Freedom again, we will continue to be hated and attacked. That is the long term solution. Obama takes this one
Final score Obama 5. McCain 2 and 1 tie.
Quote from: devlin on Sep 28, 2008, 12:17 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 28, 2008, 04:29 AM
And saying that republicans pay off 3rd party candidates is just beyond stupid. These people spend so much time and money on campaigns that they know they will never win. Because they believe in something. They believe in a better country, a better way to govern. They are just trying to get the message out. I was a republican, now I am voting 3rd party. Ron Paul is a republican who has a huge following and endorsed a 3rd party candidate. That is taking votes away from the GOP.
Not voting for them because they aren't going to win is missing the point. If you want to sit there and continue playing this bull shit game then fine. But dont ger angry when the politicians continue to play their bull shit games and feed you their bull shit lies after you chose to play along.
at this point in time it is a waste of a vote. and will continue to be a waste until the media gives every candidate equal time and attention. i'm there are alot (far to many) people you couldn't tell you a single 3rd party candidate. your average joe watches fox new and cnn and see 90% (if not more) coverae on the main 2. they form there opinions on them forgetting or never knowing the rest. no matter how many people think like you and vote 3rd party hoping to open up some eyes it wont help. unless in some unbelieble event a 3rd party where to win. but a 3rd party getting a lot of votes and still not coming any where close to winning...the majority wont even notice.
Well how do you ever expect them to get media time and step more into the spot light? They have to show that more and more people take them serious and support them. They aren't just going to pop into popularity over night because of some magic. People have to make the effort. If you know about them, and you believe in their message, but you still vote for a Democrat or Republican even though you think a 3rd party candidate would be better. That is disgusting to me. It is perpetuating the cycle. Allowing the Democrats and Republicans to continue to nominate these good balls and not really talk about real issues or real change year after year. It is not a waste of a vote because I am telling these people that I will not play their games anymore. If more people did it, we might make enough of an impact to actually change the big two parties. Scare them into getting real again. Plus voting for who I think is best just seems like the moral thing to do.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 28, 2008, 12:41 PM
Plus voting for who I think is best just seems like the moral thing to do.
i definitly agree with that. but i am willing to sacrafice my morals to put at least one more vote against McCain. A vote that might actually prevent him from getting into office.
that just doesn't make any sense to me. Especially when McCain and Obama are so closely aligned on the way they want to govern the country..
i'm not crazy about obama, i like him, but i'm not totally convinced hes the best. but i do not like mccain at all. i see your point, vote for who you think is best, is the way it should be done. but, disgusting as it may be to you, i'd rather vote in an attempt block McCain. i haven't even made up my mind on who i like the best, it might end up being that i go out genuinely wanting to vote obama.
WHOOO!!! Trey said Obama won! lol I'm messin with ya.
I think he did. McCain had his victories. But I just though over all Obama did better. Had better things to say for the most part
I agree. I'll give credit where credit is due,no matter who it is,but I feel Obama did do better.
He messed up by getting angry a few times. really let it show. If I was judging by pure debating skills my results probably wouldnt have been the same. But I tried to do the more intelligent thing and understand what they were trying to communicate and judge them on their message instead of their delivery
I think I heard "Main Street" over 90 billion times.
lol. Yeah. I have been watching youtube videos about the bail out and thats all everyone is saying. I really hate the media sometimes. I would lose money if this bailout doesnt happen. But still, im not for it. I think we will all lose even more money in the long run if it pases.
I feel Obama definately took the debate. I can't wait til Thursday to see Biden wipe the floor with Palin's ass. It was really nice of her to talk after the Debate. lolz. And SHE hypothetically could be the next president?! Scaryyy.
I watched Biden on Keith Olbermann after the debate Friday night, and he said "no kid gloves". So I guess he may lay it on her this week.
Quote from: White Pwny on Sep 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
I feel Obama definately took the debate. I can't wait til Thursday to see Biden wipe the floor with Palin's ass. It was really nice of her to talk after the Debate. lolz. And SHE hypothetically could be the next president?! Scaryyy.
I dont think Obama took him in an all out landslide victory. McCain definitely held his own. He actually did a really good job. On a couple of the questions that I awarded to Obama, McCain actually debated better. But I gave them to Obama because I am familiar with he issues and think that he was saying the right thing on that particular issue.
The VP debates are always a joke. This is nothing new. Last time John Edwards got his ass kicked by Cheny in a way I have never seen before. It will just be flipped this time. It doesn't matter how smart or stupid palin is. If a man with as much experience as Biden cant clean up on a noob like Palin, then he is not worth a dam.
what did you mean though? that it was nice of her to talk after the debate. I must have missed that.
No, you didn't. She didn't speak. Even one of the guys said after hearing from Biden... "I wish we could also hear from Palin" the other broadcaster said... "Don't hold your breath" And, she never called in, and had NOTHING to say. Just kind of silly for her to not say anything to uphold her running mate.
Yeah, if Biden can't kick her ass.... then he's pathetic. Tho, I think he will do just fine.
And also, I don't think it was a landslide. But I definately think Obama came out ahead.
yeah. The 2nd debate should be interesting. It is still anyones game to win
Calm down Variable...
I did say that I thought third parties had some great points-even Libertarians-however you can't tell me that you realistically think one will win in this election.
I hate that this is how things nave become more than anyone- George Washington, one of the founders of this country, even stated that an organized party system would be the end of this nation.
However, with the current issues that our economy, foreign relations, etc. are facing, we need someone who actually has a chance in the next 30-40 days.
I also should say that saying the 3rd parties were "paid off" was just a joke to make the extreme point that the large group of more liberal parties actually have affected the Dems pretty badly in the last two elections.
Btw great overview of the debate.
I didnt think I was worked up. Probably just came off wrong.
No I dont think a 3rd party candidate has a chance to win. But that doesn't make it a waste of my vote. McCain and Obama essentially have the exact same policies on the Economy , foreign relations ect ect. They bicker over little itsy bitsy differences. But fundamentally have the same policy. So me me it doesn't really matter who is elected. They both want to continue interventionism, imperialism, the Federal Reserve,regulated "Free trade" instead of true free trade, centralized banking, inflation instead of putting us back on the gold standard, big BIG government, huge federal spending, huge taxes, police states, large executive control over the entire nation instead of states rights, the war on drugs, the war on illiteracy, the war on poverty, the forced transfer of wealth through foreign aid..............Get the point? they have the same fundamental policies about governing. But they bicker over tiny things that dont even matter in the long run, should our country be occupying 129 countries instead of 130? It is ok to break this countries sovereignty, but not this ones. Should this big tax bourdon ,that will affect the middle class one way or the othe,r start at the top or bottom? They are one in the same. So im not going to waste my time trying to figure out which is the lesser of two evils because that is futile. I will vote for who represents my political views. And I will encourage others to do the same. maybe not this election, but possibly in 20 years or so we might start to make a real difference. All depends on how successful the republicrats are at making you think you have to play their game.
and thank you about my overview. I didnt think anyone would actually read it all
I sure the hell didn't...I wont lie!
I figured so much. No offense or anything. Its just that most people on this board wont even take the time to read up on the issues from the great political thinkers of our time, and from history. Most people don't take the time to truly understand the issues and the candidates. If people are not willing to take the time to do that, I don't expect them to take the time to read my gibberish. But this is the reason the board is plagues with nonsense about Palin being dangerous because she is a woman and lipstick and bla bla all this political tabloid bull shit that doesn't matter.
Oh,I haven't read it cause I've been busy as fuck this weekend. I skimmed over it. But I saw the debate for myself,so I didn't feel your view of it would sway my opinion. :P
I thought they had some crucial differences when it came to foreign policy, which is why I believed Obama did so much better in the debate. The whole Afghanistan situation and pulling-out-of-Iraq issues seem to be at odds between McCain and Obama
We do all realize that neither candidate is going to completely pull out if Iraq, right? I think that their plans for Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty close to the same. Except Obama favors a more aggressive stance towards Pakistan.
I also forgot to talk about how pathetic of an attempt it was for Obama to seem to relate to the troops when he had to look at the name on his bracelet. These people need to stop trying to be what they are not.
oh yeah, i know we really can't pull out, especially really soon.
and the bracelet thing was kind of lame, but honestly i think the only reason he mentioned was because McCain had just done the same goddamn thing. neither of them really needed to do that.
Oh we could. Im just saying that neither Obama nor McCain are proposing that we ever pull out. Obama's policy would have less troops in Iraq, but still troops indefinitely. Still big firm bases. With a status of forces agreement. Just like we have in So many European countries, South Korea, Japan ect ect. This is the same vision that Obama and McCain share for Iraq. They are just pitching it in two different ways. But it is the same end result. So if you like that obama wants to "pull out of Iraq" you would be misinformed.
And no. Neither candidate NEEDED to do the bracelet thing. But McCain obviously wanted to. Then what you are saying is that because McCain did it, Obama followed and did it just because McCain did? Hm. Doesnt really sound like a leadership quality to me. My point was that it was obviously insincere and just a prop. He didn't even know the name on the bracelet. He had to look twice to get the name out. That is using a dead soldier for political rhetoric. Pretty pathetic.
i'm just sick of stories of candidates who "know" all these soldiers and their families. unless you actually send your own son or daughter to war, stop it. it's just cheap political publicity.
McCain and Palin both have sons in the military ( I believe both in the marine corps) who are getting ready to deploy to Iraq
Biden's son is in Afghanistan. Why not talk about them instead of other families that they supposedly meet for a couple minutes and somehow tell their life stories.
I don't know why i'm making a deal about this, it is kind of stupid....
Quote from: Variable on Sep 29, 2008, 03:36 PM
McCain and Palin both have sons in the military ( I believe both in the marine corps) who are getting ready to deploy to Iraq
Yeah...I remember people giving her shit because she was a dunce and announced that her son was going to Iraq....
"IS IT JUST ME OR DO YOU FIND IT A TAD WORRIESOME THAT THE ASSOCIATED PRESS IS PUBLISHING THE PICTURE AND SO MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE SARAH PALIN'S SON WILL BE SERVING IN IRAQ. NOT ONLY DOES THE ENEMY KNOW WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, BUT THEY ALSO KNOW WHERE HE'S GOING TO BE STATIONED, WHAT HE'S GOING TO BE DOING, THE VEHICLE HE'S GOING TO BE DRIVING AND WHAT UNIT HE IS WITH. DOES THE AP WANT TO HELP THEM PLANT THE BOMB TOO?"
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 29, 2008, 03:43 PM
Biden's son is in Afghanistan. Why not talk about them instead of other families that they supposedly meet for a couple minutes and somehow tell their life stories.
I don't know why i'm making a deal about this, it is kind of stupid....
I chose not to talk about Biden's son because he is a legal officer in the reserves. He is really in no danger at all. Isn't making many sacrifices. Living up the big fat life on Bagrahm Air Field. To be perfectly 100% honest, I hate people like him. Not because they are in a support roll. But usually because they are in a support roll but have to act like they are some hardcore warrior. He was eating up the publicity at the DNC when everyone kept mentioning he was going to Afghanistan like some war hero. He wont be doing shit but eating burger king and watching USO tours.
you are right that it is stupid though. Just thought I would throw that tid bit of info out there. Just something we havent talked about yet
Quote from: devilinside on Sep 29, 2008, 03:52 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 29, 2008, 03:36 PM
McCain and Palin both have sons in the military ( I believe both in the marine corps) who are getting ready to deploy to Iraq
Yeah...I remember people giving her shit because she was a dunce and announced that her son was going to Iraq....
"IS IT JUST ME OR DO YOU FIND IT A TAD WORRIESOME THAT THE ASSOCIATED PRESS IS PUBLISHING THE PICTURE AND SO MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE SARAH PALIN’S SON WILL BE SERVING IN IRAQ. NOT ONLY DOES THE ENEMY KNOW WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, BUT THEY ALSO KNOW WHERE HE’S GOING TO BE STATIONED, WHAT HE’S GOING TO BE DOING, THE VEHICLE HE’S GOING TO BE DRIVING AND WHAT UNIT HE IS WITH. DOES THE AP WANT TO HELP THEM PLANT THE BOMB TOO?"
That is a pretty big over exaggeration. There is no way in hell that the enemy would know what specific vehicle he is in. We purposely make sure they all look the exact same so that one cant be targeted. Not to mention that most of those bases are HUGE. have + 20,000 troops on them. Good luck singling him out. I mean its not the best thing to do. But in reality he probably isnt at more danger because of it.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 29, 2008, 03:18 AM
We do all realize that neither candidate is going to completely pull out if Iraq, right? I think that their plans for Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty close to the same. Except Obama favors a more aggressive stance towards Pakistan.
I also forgot to talk about how pathetic of an attempt it was for Obama to seem to relate to the troops when he had to look at the name on his bracelet. These people need to stop trying to be what they are not.
All this talk of pulling out, aggression and jewelery is making me pretty hot. ;)
don't worry trey, i read your whole debate thinger. i didn't watch the whole thing, cuz i just couldn't stand their blabbing to make themselves look better rather than actually debate, and i already know i'm not voting for either of them... and the twins game was on.
i totally agree with you about the third party thing too, i just wish the media/ republicrats didn't have such a strong hold on the collective nads/brains of the country. i've read so many things in this thread that are like direct quotes from shitty political analysts just trying to create conflict for ratings.
You're the shit. I can always count on you to be rational.
You're right though. It is all about controversy and conflict. Is this historical enough? Was that racist? was that sexist? All this crap that doesn't matter. Then , its all people talk about. Passionately at that. You would think these people would go out and search out the issues, since they seem to care so much. But I guess in reality people only care up to the point where it starts to inconvenience them.
Quote from: Shaye on Sep 29, 2008, 05:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Sep 29, 2008, 03:18 AM
We do all realize that neither candidate is going to completely pull out if Iraq, right? I think that their plans for Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty close to the same. Except Obama favors a more aggressive stance towards Pakistan.
I also forgot to talk about how pathetic of an attempt it was for Obama to seem to relate to the troops when he had to look at the name on his bracelet. These people need to stop trying to be what they are not.
All this talk of pulling out, aggression and jewelery is making me pretty hot. ;)
trey knows what the ladies want ;D
word up. However I can get people excited about the political process
I've been a pledged dem for quite some time now, but I must say that I'm a bit worried about Obama's responses to this North American Union thing...he denies it's happening...yet I definitely think it is.
So, I did some research on Ron Paul (I know oh my god the total opposite of a democrat) and he actually has some good points (and acknowledges the existance of the NAU coming on).
The only thing I worry about with him is his stand on a national healthcare system...does anyone have any info on his standing with this? I know he is against any government intervention, however I feel that healthcare is a right and therefore deserves to be treated as such by our government.
why is government intervention a bad thing. i would say today we need it.
but yeah wait for Variable to get the word on Paul
Quote from: defkitty on Sep 30, 2008, 02:04 AM
I've been a pledged dem for quite some time now, but I must say that I'm a bit worried about Obama's responses to this North American Union thing...he denies it's happening...yet I definitely think it is.
So, I did some research on Ron Paul (I know oh my god the total opposite of a democrat) and he actually has some good points (and acknowledges the existance of the NAU coming on).
The only thing I worry about with him is his stand on a national healthcare system...does anyone have any info on his standing with this? I know he is against any government intervention, however I feel that healthcare is a right and therefore deserves to be treated as such by our government.
I do know his stance on health care. He talks about it in his book. Let me see if I can find the text online before I try to explain it and fuck it up.
He also gives quite a few very good reason why government intervention is pretty much never a good thing.
so what would he be doing right now instead of a bailout. what are the other options?
In short. He would not do anything for these companies. He acknowledges that for a year or two. Things would get REALLY tough for some people. But argues that it will happen either now, or later anyways. And that it will just be worse later if we wait.
He would instead fix the monitory system. Get rid of the Federal Reserve. Put us back on the gold standard. Stop inflation. And quickly reduce the spending of the federal government in order to pay off the national debt. The first step he would take to do that is to bring back ALL of the US military from over seas ( not just Iraq and Afghanistan ) He would also get rid of useless government organizations. He would also get out of the WTO and NAFTA and set up true free trade in America. He would take off embargos from countries like cuba ( so for example we could buy their cheap sugar ) .......He has a lot to say man. A LOT to say. A very clear plan that he laid out in a book. I can't explain the whole thing you know. But if you want specific answers, instead of vague ass "just trust me, ill fix it" answers like Obama and McCain say. Read his book. One of the cool thought about Dr. Paul is that he predicted all of this before it happened. So he already wrote about it, before it happened. So now you can go ahead and read about it.
This first video is a great starter for Ron Paul. Especially if you arent that into politics and dont like to get too technical. Sorry I dont know how to post it as a video
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/88505/june-13-2007/ron-paul (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/88505/june-13-2007/ron-paul)
[youtube=425,350]M806u1brf2I[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]1sfUKZOHtRs[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]sSNnembIJ_c[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]trAiCwzSVho[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]dv6rQ0U01Yc[/youtube]
Quote from: defkitty on Sep 30, 2008, 02:04 AM
The only thing I worry about with him is his stand on a national healthcare system...does anyone have any info on his standing with this? I know he is against any government intervention, however I feel that healthcare is a right and therefore deserves to be treated as such by our government.
ok. I wasn't able to find the text online. I would have just copied it from my book. But I gave it away. The only store that sells the book where I am is a 1 hour drive each way. So, I downloaded the audio book from i-tunes. I found the part about health care. But now I have to go study for a test I have tomorrow. Tomorrow, after the test, I will come back and type it up.
But in MY opinion-words ( not Dr. Pauls ) I don't necessarily think that healthcare is a right. It's definitely not defined in the bill of rights. And if you are going to say that health care is a right. You are going to have to define exactly how much. What is the standard of care? You do realize that not all treatments are equal. Not in cost or effect. So, think about it. In a system where we ( the patients ) do not pay for the care. But the bureaucrats in Washington do. What do you think they will decide to do? I'm going to go ahead and guess that they will throw the lowest standard of care at you for the cheapest amount of money. Meaning the absolute minimum care you can provide without being accused of malpractice. Oh yeah, that sounds GREAT!
In a government controlled health care system. The doctors are not free to treat the patients as they see fit. They are at the mercy of the red tape laid out by the bureaucrats.(that scares me, I wonder who knows best?) They have to take orders from Washington based on how to save the most money. Seeing as how the government also regulates their licensees. I wouldn't be expecting too many doctors to be taking a moral stand and just hook you up with that prescription that you don't NEED but would make your life more comfortable. They probably wont go above and beyond to just go ahead and make sure that you aren't in the 5% of people who present differently with a certain lethal condition. The government is most certain to punish them less if you die, but they save money, compared to if you live but they spend more money. Think about it.
Pretty much. Calling health care a right is simplistic and idealistic. I could stand at the door of a urgent care and give everyone who walks in 800mg of motrin, then send them on their way, and call that health care, but it doesn't make it so. Not to mention that there will still most certainly be a huge amount of corruption in a government controlled system. Those who are in control will still receive perks and benefits that you cant get. The biggest difference now being that since you still pay for your healthcare, you at least have to option to pay for the treatment and receive the extra care. Also, if they receive the special treatment, they still have to pay for it. In this universal system. You will pay the same as them ( probably close to nothing ) but they will receive a much higher standard than you are even eligible to ask for.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 30, 2008, 02:19 AM
why is government intervention a bad thing. i would say today we need it.
A very simple answer would be that every time the government steps in and intervenes to make decisions for us. That is taking freedom and liberty away from us. It is a very bad idea to trust government to do right by you, especially at the cost of your liberty.
Also , most people like me would believe in the Federal Government staying out. But letting things be handled at a State Level. How can anyone intelligently assess that some withdrawn bureaucrat in Washington knows whats best for all of America? how is the exact same policy going to benefit everyone in America equally? How is it that one federalized education system is supposed to work the same for the kids in inner city Baltimore compared to the kids who live in Orange Country? The country is huge, and varies a lot from state to state. If the Federal Government would just stay out of issues, leaving power to the Governors. Then the Governors could make more intelligent assessments and pass down their powers to the mayors based on the needs of the states. To where the Mayors could make decisions based on the needs of the individual cities. Then, at least those who were in charge of governing our lives would live in our own communities. Would have to state their people in the face every day. See the result of their decisions first hand. It is a way for greater understanding and accountability
not to mention in the private sector, there is competition for who can do things more effectively and efficiently. a company that does poorly these days is quickly overtaken by a better one. the government has no competition, so things are slower, less efficient, and more costly. and think about it, the bigger it gets, the harder and harder it is for the little guy to try to make a change. and taxes get higher, taking even more money out of the private sector (even more than these ridiculous bailouts) and hurting the economy. socialist/nationalist america would not work. period.
Quote from: Variable on Sep 30, 2008, 11:31 AM
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Sep 30, 2008, 02:19 AM
why is government intervention a bad thing. i would say today we need it.
A very simple answer would be that every time the government steps in and intervenes to make decisions for us. That is taking freedom and liberty away from us. It is a very bad idea to trust government to do right by you, especially at the cost of your liberty.
Also , most people like me would believe in the Federal Government staying out. But letting things be handled at a State Level. How can anyone intelligently assess that some withdrawn bureaucrat in Washington knows whats best for all of America? how is the exact same policy going to benefit everyone in America equally? How is it that one federalized education system is supposed to work the same for the kids in inner city Baltimore compared to the kids who live in Orange Country? The country is huge, and varies a lot from state to state. If the Federal Government would just stay out of issues, leaving power to the Governors. Then the Governors could make more intelligent assessments and pass down their powers to the mayors based on the needs of the states. To where the Mayors could make decisions based on the needs of the individual cities. Then, at least those who were in charge of governing our lives would live in our own communities. Would have to state their people in the face every day. See the result of their decisions first hand. It is a way for greater understanding and accountability
but how does a bailout take away our liberties? I agree that some government intervention does indeed take away liberties and freedoms (i.e. PATRIOT Act). But at this point, a big bailout is the lesser of 2 evils (I'm not 100% behind it necessarily, but it seems like that is our best option right now)
it take away out liberties in that we no longer have a free market and a level playing field. in other words, the rich get richer while we have to pay for it. not to mention, this bailout does nothing to stop the behaviors that got these companies there in the first place. not to mention, it probably makes it harder for entrepeneurs trying to start a business, especially financial ones, when you have to have the goverments permission to do things. i agree that we need to do something, but this bailout is just bad business. Suze Orman said it best last night, it will be at least 2015 (at the earliest) before this gets turned around, even with the bailout.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/WhitePwny/party.gif)
:)
Opionons is all you all got. Free yourselves from those skeletons in your closet. Always looking through life with a glass filled with smoke.
You sounds so intelligent when you speak so specifically. Not abstract at all.
lol.
this is why 3rd party candidates will never win. Because of idiots like Ross.
No,they wont win because they don't have enough money and backing.
Yup. That is for sure a great criteria to vote for president. Money. All my presidents must have lots of money. Otherwise, they are not legit. I wont vote for someone who doesn't have a lot of money.
Back to healthcare-would you be opposed to having a basic national healthcare system for those who absolutely cannot afford it and private companies for those who can and prefer better care? This seems to be the best idea I've heard yet; still giving people the freedom to choose while serving those who are desperate for care.
And as far as these debates have been going I'm a little bored. It would be nice to have third parties participate. Most would argue that they don't stand a chance and therefore would be wasting valuable speaking time for the "rich" candidates and their "established" parties, but I definitely think it would be a lot more interesting to hear some alternatives. It would be even more interesting to see the main two respond to some arguments by them (like "Senator McCain: how do feel about our dollar being backed by thin air?").
That would be much more interesting and possibly even entertaining. It seems sickly unfair that we basically have a two party system in a nation as large as ours. Plus more media coverage on this scale (not a primary debate, but one closer to the actual election) would likely give third parties more support. This is mostly wishful thinking because obviously money rules everything- which I guess means nothing rules everything? Wow. On that philosophical note I think I'm done ranting.
if 3rd party candidates were in the debates, we would all see how truly idiotic and clueless Obama and McCain really are. And when I mean idiotic and clueless, I mean idiotic and clueless. The vague - broad - pre designed answerers they give, which just happen to be wrong anyways. Are so fucking lame. They are like using 1,000 words to say absolutely nothing. Its amazing.
as far as health care goes. I don't think the government needs to get involved at all. But I do believe that everyone should be able to receive health care. How is this possible? I swear to god I will get off my ass and type up what Ron Paul has to say about it. I couldn't say it better. Just give me another day or two. Im about ready to go to bed.
good I want to hear it, because I think Obama's got a good plan for healthcare, especially compared to McCain's plan, which is BS because he wants to tax the "money" he gives us. Health care should be a right, not a privilege.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc
Ron Paul on healthcare
Quote from: Variable on Oct 07, 2008, 09:38 PM
Yup. That is for sure a great criteria to vote for president. Money. All my presidents must have lots of money. Otherwise, they are not legit. I wont vote for someone who doesn't have a lot of money.
No,I'm talking funding so they can get out there and campaign!
Quote from: defkitty on Oct 08, 2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc
Ron Paul on healthcare
he makes a good point of cutting spending overseas. that is what I believe needs to be done, and Obama has hinted at that recently. Why the hell spend $10 billion per month in Iraq when our economy is crap? They have a surplus (not $80 billion like Obama says, but still around $40B)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv7r3z2Fqy4
exactly how I feel about our two party system
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 08, 2008, 02:23 PM
Quote from: defkitty on Oct 08, 2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc
Ron Paul on healthcare
he makes a good point of cutting spending overseas. that is what I believe needs to be done, and Obama has hinted at that recently. Why the hell spend $10 billion per month in Iraq when our economy is crap? They have a surplus (not $80 billion like Obama says, but still around $40B)
Definitely. How can our country fix other countries when we can't even take care of ourselves? It's definitely backwards and eludes to a lot of political personal interest conspiracies. The answer seems so simple yet our government is still stuck on the NeoVietnam (a war that can't be won). Hopefully we can get out soon enough to still have somewhat of a functioning economy.
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 08, 2008, 02:15 PM
Quote from: Variable on Oct 07, 2008, 09:38 PM
Yup. That is for sure a great criteria to vote for president. Money. All my presidents must have lots of money. Otherwise, they are not legit. I wont vote for someone who doesn't have a lot of money.
No,I'm talking funding so they can get out there and campaign!
Ill look up the stats. But Ron Paul has SHIT TONS of campaign money. He set two records for fund raising. He held his own convention on his own dollar. The republicans and democrats used tax dollars for theirs.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 08, 2008, 02:23 PM
Quote from: defkitty on Oct 08, 2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc
Ron Paul on healthcare
he makes a good point of cutting spending overseas. that is what I believe needs to be done, and Obama has hinted at that recently. Why the hell spend $10 billion per month in Iraq when our economy is crap? They have a surplus (not $80 billion like Obama says, but still around $40B)
Don't get confused though. Ron Paul is not only talking about Iraq. That is just one of the many countries he is speaking about. He wants to pull out of Germany, Italy....well ill just say Europe. South Korea, Japan, the other pacific islands, South America......the whole world. Wants to bring all of our over seas bases from all 130 countries back home. Which of course means the end of the American empire. In the end, people can't stomach that. Not even Obama.
And Iraq having a surplus just means they are poor. You have to have a debt in order to be making money. You also have to have a debt in order to get anyone to lend to you. So we are actually fucking them by keeping them in surplus....as backwards as that sounds , its true. I remember watching the HBO series "John Adams" and they were talking about that. I was trying to figure out what the fuck they were talking about, how that made any sense at all. I believe it was Holland that would not lend to the colonies because we had no debt established. But yeah, its true.
Quote from: Variable on Oct 08, 2008, 09:47 PM
the American empire
And what would that be please ? Is that how you consider the world ?
Quote from: tarkil on Oct 09, 2008, 04:01 AM
Quote from: Variable on Oct 08, 2008, 09:47 PM
the American empire
And what would that be please ? Is that how you consider the world ?
Ha, brother. Tell me where the nearest US base is to your country. Then turn 90 degrees and tell me where the next closest US military base is. Then 90 more degrees and tell me where the next closest military base is....ect....ect. Then you can go about telling me what countries are part of the WTO, NATO, UN..... Then you can go tell me what countries are in debt to the US in some way. Yes sir, you are living in the midst of the American empire, whether you think that is arrogant or not. It's true.
That's definitely arrogant... As for the truth in your words, I'd say no as well.
Having few military bases around is no relevant criteria.
An empire would be so-called because of it's strength superiority (cf. Roman Empire) / culture superiority (cf. Greek empire) / recognition in the world / etc.
All this making the so called empire to shine towards the world, and have its "way of life" accepted and used among it. Whether it's by strength, fear, choice, etc.
And finally an empire would mainly bring better things for everyone living in it. Even if it starts by strength, an empire will only stick together if it's a vector of enbetterment and progress for people, else it will just collapse. USSR would be a great example of that. And actually USA is going the same way in my opinion these past 10-20 years.
Anyway, America is nowhere close to reaching any of these points, and unless big changes, will only get further away from that.
And FYI, UN and WTO are world organizations, not US organizations... Even NATO is, though it could indeed be considered as a US pawn.
Yes my friend. I know what the UN and NATO are supposed to be. But in fact, they are not that. The UN sure did do a good job of keeping the US out of Iraq though.
Fact of the matter is. That the US is an empire right now. The first of its kind actually. A very subtle empire. Took over the world without anyone really even noticing. Through economics mainly. A bit of military strength. And a lot of culture ( why is it that you speak and read English again? Even though you were born in France and live in Hong Kong?) All the music you listen to, movies you watch......But as I said, mainly economics. Obviously the empire is still building. I would say that the UK isn't exactly subservient to the US. Most of Europe is only slightly in Debt to the US. I can't really figure out the relationship between China and the US. But you get what I'm saying.
A lot of very well educated historians are already calling this the age of the American empire. The US doesn't meet your usual definition. But as I said, a first of it's kind.
And its not arrogance man. I don't like it one bit. But I can accept the truth for what it is.
I do not agree.
I do agree that US tended to be an empire after the 2 world wars, and during the cold war...
It was the strongest country around, took decisions for the good of everyone, had some "enlightened" (at least more than now) leaders, basically made the world a better place. That would be until few years after WW2, I'd say that cold war started to pull you down the shitter. That's when shitty manipulations started. Like installing "pawns" as head of states around to "fight" against USSR (Afghanistan would be an example you must be familiar with), etc.
Following this time, USA took for granted that it would always be a model for the world, and decided that it had the responsibility to apply this model to the world (that's even truer after fall of USSR). This basically caused Iraq wars, and everything that's happening now : most people around the world consider USA as arrogant pricks, wanting to force down their model and way of life down everyone's throat, whether they want it or not. And more important, whether it's good for them or not...
Unless some radical change sometime soon, USA will become an "everything that could have been", and will lose its leadership position. This is already happening, and I can see the economy crisis as a symptom of everything that went bad following all that.
I see 2 poles emerging on US ashes : China, and Europe.
Europe is just a potential at the moment to me, and is in no way able to dictate anything. For some reason, I would like to see Europe becoming the new enlightened leader of 21st century.
Let me quickly explain myself : Europe is a thousand years old civilization, that went through lots of different steps and crisis. I do believe experience is a necessary quality to be able to navigate through the problems of a full world and civilization, and try to bring the best from everyone. Obviously not sufficient, but in my opinion a "must have" thing.
Europe also is a diversity of cultures, people, opinions, and languages. Only through these differences can emerge a common ground in which people around the world will be able to identify, and will want to follow (remember what I said about what an empire should be ??).
Now, that's a little bit utopic, and frankly, I don't believe that's ever gonna be happening, or at least any time soon. Leaders of the world are way too selfish and self centered to think globally like that.
But as they say, one can dream...
China now.
China is even an older civilization than Europe. China has billions of people. China has resources.
But most important imho, China has the huge strength of not being a democracy as West sees it. And chinese people have a mentality waaaaaaaay different than occidental people : to them, individual is meaningless compared to the group. That is to say that culturally, China is ready to endorse a path where good of everyone prevails on good of individuals as selves. Which is why "westernized" democracy is not used in China, and is not going to be anytime soon. They are slowly coming to a new model, that will suit their culture, and their needs, and this is a huge strength.
If an enlightened (sorry don't know any other similar word)) leader were to be born there, and accessed to high powers there, and considered the wellness of mankind as more important than wellness of China, this could be a great new world order.
Anyway, same there : I don't see that happening anytime soon : China has not enough power on the international politics / diplomacy scene as of today to do anything. Plus they only act for China these days, and not for mankind as a whole (screwing everyone through illiquid currency, polluting earth like mad, etc.)
Once again, who knows what can happen next, so we can only hope...
Anyway, many many things we see these days make me think that world is changing, and things will soon be different than how we always knew them. Soon doesn't mean tomorrow or even in a few years... But definitely (once again only to your humble narrator's opinion) we are living through some historic times for mankind.
And I don't see America playing a role model in that. Once again, unless some big change on your side (environment friendly policy, world oriented foreign policy, culture outshining civilization, etc.) happens that is.
On that topic, and to answer your previous points :
As much as I love your music and movies, I don't consider this as an outshining contribution to the world.
I'll develop briefly cause I'm getting tired of all the typing, and no one will read through all that shit if too long :
I don't consider US movies to be vectors of anything else but entertainment. Take paintings from Renaissance Italian painters : they are major pieces of art because they change the representation of man in day to day life : they humanized religion, they gave a whole new dimension to life. Which I don't get in music and movies these days.
That's no US disease though, I don't think anyone around the world is doing anything like that these days. The closest thing I could think of would maybe be Dubai and China, through their crazy urbanization, which gives a vision of a power-limitless man, a man-god basically, where as long as you want something, you do it. Not sure that's a good thing though, does not really seem like a healthy vision to me.
And finally I do speak english not because of you but because of England stupid... Remember that's why you speak it too ? ;)
And more seriously, language is just a tool to perform communication, and happens to be the more wide spread these days for the "simple" reason that England managed to have colonies all around the world : america, oceania, africa, asia, and europe. It also happens that thanks to England influence, these countries attained before the others a higher level of culture, and played an important role on world scene. Which led to English being widely accepted as international language.
That's all.
And that's probably the longest post I've ever written in here.
I was thinking of posting some cock pictures on your other thread, I'm sort of glad I did that in the end instead... ;)
(BTW, I don't believe in 2012 theories bla bla bla...).
well don't worry, I read all of it.
I will try to be a bit more brief. At the moment I really don't have the energy to properly make a propper rebuttal.
But your definition of an empire, and thus why the US is not an empire, is a bit off. For some reason you think an Empire has to help people, and civilizations. I don't think that is necessarily true. I think that it is very logical to assume that an empire could just oppress people for the greater good of the rulers.
You also make it seem as if the subordinates of the empire have a say in who their emperor will be. These people may think Americans are pricks. May hate the foreign policy of America. May want nothing to do with America. But that does not mean they will get their wish. If we do not control these people through their own governments ( as we do most of the time ) we will find a silly reason to invade you, and occupy you, until you are brainwashed, and accept us.
Look, you may want to see Europe or China or whoever emerge as the new world power for whatever reason. But I think that is dangerous. I would like to see the USA return to what it was intended to be ( definitely not an Empire or world police) I would like to see nations just be nations again. I would like to see people having control of their governments, without ANY outside influence from some world leader across a sea or continent. I believe in the word sovereignty. I believe in liberties. I also believe in freedom ( with very, very slight implications of a social contract ) I don't see that being possible as long as some nation or group of nations try to reign as the world leader. Governments just need to learn to stay within their own borders for the first time in history.
Oh, and I knew you were going to use that " We all speak English because of England" crap. Saw it before I even typed the question. But I think you can read between the lines there, without me saying much.
Funny that I just stumble upon this article :
http://www.newsweek.com/id/162401
I don't think anyone can deny that this is a dark time for America. However, that should scare the shit out of you and me. The US is a wounded dog in a corner, and just happens to have the biggest bark, and bite out of anyone in the world. Say what you will about China's population - ability to raise a ridiculous army. Right now the US could destroy any continent on the planet just through its Naval and Air powers in a matter of days, without nuclear power. There are very few nations out there that are even considered a legitamate threat for the US in an all out war. To my knowledge, there aren't any that could reasonably be expected to win in a WW3 type setting. Talk shit about big defense budgets all you want, it could just become the push back to the top. Not to mention that the US itself is quite large. The US can also raise quite a large army through a draft and nationalism. I don't know the exact numbers for WW2 off the top of my head, but the US military was huge.
A lot of Empires of the past got bailed out through military action. I think it is pretty arrogant to think that the world could just walk away. That the men who are in control of this massive power will just allow it to be swept from under them. That is real arrogance my friend.
collegehumor.com just helped me decide who to vote for. i don't know how to post pictures on here so heres a link.
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1832201
seriously if those boobies told me to vote for the re-animated corpse of hitler i probably would.
I know everybody has to kick back and enjoy themselves. But I really do worry that people pay more attention to stuff like that than actual substance. I think that most people vote off hype instead of issues
Woot for the US destroying any continent!
You know what I found interesting,In Japan,they select who goes to school,and Japan has the highest rate of FIVE YEAR OLD suicide anywhere...crazy shit.
We have a horrible military capability. Everyone always focuses on Nukes. But just parking a Marine Expeditionary Brigade or a Naval Expeditionary Force on anybodies shores in an all out assault would be devastating. Just from the Marines, an Aircraft carrier, and the missiles from the ships.....Horrible. Then we still have the Air force and Army. I realize that other countries have military capabilities also. But believe it or not, Naval power is still pretty much the best way to weigh how powerful your military is. And our Navy is way beyond anybody elses at the moment.
That is why it scares me. I don't want a fucking WW3 all in the name of preserving the American empire. I just want the USA to be the great idea and country that it was created to be. Just to stay within its borders. Just preserve freedom and liberty to anyone who presides within her borders. And this huge military capability just being the big stick to detour anyone from trying to take those liberties from us. That's all I want.
[youtube=425,350]Kf6YKOkfFsE[/youtube]
fucking arab
Ill just go ahead and quote myself from the official board for this one....
QuoteOriginally posted by My Own Fur:
yeah, this whole thing is horrible. The way some people talk about Obama as if he is some domestic terrorist because of his race or name or whatever. pure racism. Then how the other side is totally kissing his ass and giving him a golden carpet ride into the white house, because of his race or name or whatever. Also pure racism. It's disgusting America.
Wow....
http://news.aol.com/elections/article/colin-powell-voting-for-barack-obama/217016?icid=100214839x1211759696x1200730825
Quote from: lithium on Oct 12, 2008, 01:46 PM
[youtube=425,350]Kf6YKOkfFsE[/youtube]
fucking arab
no wonder a douchebag like Bush has been in for 2 terms when stupid bastards like that are voting.
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 19, 2008, 04:00 PM
Wow....
http://news.aol.com/elections/article/colin-powell-voting-for-barack-obama/217016?icid=100214839x1211759696x1200730825
that and the Chicago Tribune endorsed Obama. first democrat they've endorsed. EVER.
There was another one too...I think it was LA Times?
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 19, 2008, 04:00 PM
Wow....
http://news.aol.com/elections/article/colin-powell-voting-for-barack-obama/217016?icid=100214839x1211759696x1200730825
This was huge. A real shock to me. I wonder what he based this decesion on? I
Wow....sad
http://news.aol.com/article/feds-bust-skinhead-plot-to-kill-obama/227448?icid=100214839x1212281996x1200777832
fucking nazi pieces of shit
I know it....and 1 is from Tn. :( Far from me,but still here. I hate people like that. Rednecks...that's all it is.
sick fucks.
Are you guys surprised this happened? It was inevitable.
my parents have been saying for months that Obama probably wont survive to the election, or shortly after if he wins. i dismissed it at first but lately im staring to wonder
Oh,I totally expected this. I think when he wins (hehe) he will have the highest security covering him than any president ever has. I just hope nobody tries to target his children. :( But yes,I've thought about his assassination for a while,and it sucks that there are people out there like that.
Obama hired those guys to get the sympathy vote
CULT OF PERSONALITY
Quote from: nonesuch on Oct 28, 2008, 06:59 PM
Obama hired those guys to get the sympathy vote
you're dumb. go to hell.
dont be dense. I'm sure obama and mccain and all of those guys get death threats everyday
how the media shows it to you is how you see it
Don't get me wrong, I think its horrible and im not making light of a serious situation but you gota look at this objectively
It's the first threat weve heard of. These kids are like 19 years old, sayin they would just drive up in their truck blastin away. Sounds like bullshit to me
Kind of bullshit that was yeah. I think the media just responds to loud on that.
I think you can't really speak of a thread in this case.
I mean, they wanted to kill a 100 black people AND Obama, and they allready got cought while trying to get weapons.
I dont take those people seriously..
actually it's the second assassination plot in the last two months.
how bout no laws?
Do not fret brothers and sisters, Those two Nazi Skinheads are our Brethren and even though our holy and divine mother didn't teach them right and wrong we must still send our prayers to them to see the light. but like scarf bitch said
Quote from: Scarf_Bitch on Oct 28, 2008, 09:52 PM
how bout no laws?
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 28, 2008, 10:55 PM
Do not fret brothers and sisters, Those two Nazi Skinheads are our Brethren and even though our holy and divine mother didn't teach them right and wrong we must still send our prayers to them to see the light. but like scarf bitch said
Quote from: Scarf_Bitch on Oct 28, 2008, 09:52 PM
how bout no laws?
Quote from: nonesuch on Oct 28, 2008, 07:35 PM
dont be dense. I'm sure obama and mccain and all of those guys get death threats everyday
how the media shows it to you is how you see it
Don't get me wrong, I think its horrible and im not making light of a serious situation but you gota look at this objectively
It's the first threat weve heard of. These kids are like 19 years old, sayin they would just drive up in their truck blastin away. Sounds like bullshit to me
These.
as soon as obama gets in the office hes gona push the button
Quote from: nonesuch on Oct 29, 2008, 06:02 AM
as soon as obama gets in the office hes gona push the button
Yeah the button to bring about fairness. But you don't want that.
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 28, 2008, 02:57 PM
Oh,I totally expected this. I think when he wins (hehe) he will have the highest security covering him than any president ever has. I just hope nobody tries to target his children. :( But yes,I've thought about his assassination for a while,and it sucks that there are people out there like that.
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
Quote from: nonesuch on Oct 28, 2008, 06:59 PM
Obama hired those guys to get the sympathy vote
I am always one to question situations and pose possible conspiracies, but coming from the South myself, I don't doubt this one actually happened. There are definitely people who would do this voluntarily (as sad as it is).
look away, look away....
...Dixieland....
everyone for sure made a bigger deal out of this than it really is
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
all you idiots that think Obama is going to bring "change" are in for the shock of your life
hes already preempted his presidency by declaring he's going to make decisions early on that even his own supporters wont like
and announced that what the masses want is inherently wrong
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
Sarah Palin for president!!!!
blerf
sarah palin and hillary clinton should combine to form an all estrogen ticket
women create life while men destroy it
no cuddle left behind
lol
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
How do you know? It's never happened before.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
First of all, don't call names when we're on the same page even though you should take advice for yourself because you can't get with that because "you're a fucking idiot."
Of course Lee Harvey didn't do it, and of course Osama didn't do it, there's a million other conspiracy's in this country, especially in the 60's alone that took place not the way they were printed, objects in the mirror always appear closer than they really are. Now we can agree on that, but you see, you just don't read right, The goverment killed everyone. But they always do it with a perfect plan in mind, with someone to put the blame on or with a perfect deception or their plan would be dull and void and the people would revolt knowing their not really protected with who they put their money into. Killing obama would be way to obvious, and they can't even kill his personality no matter how hard they keep trying with all they keep trying to say about him calling him A TERROIST and A RADICAL just because his name sounds so close to OSAMA and calling joe bidon JOE THE PLUMMER, republicans are the most immature children ever born.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 07:47 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
How do you know? It's never happened before.
What? it's happened many time throughout american history, and the only presidents who get killed are the ones that try to do somthing good, like lincoln or BOTH of the Kennedys, that was fucking insane how much muscle the goverment was flexing in the 60's.
i sent in my ballot today.
i wrote in abe vigoda.
(http://www.mortie.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/abe-vigoda.jpg)
hahaha! i luv the vigoda
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 07:47 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
How do you know? It's never happened before.
Umm...because I paid attention in school and remember learning about it.
Read section 3 of the 20th Amendment...under Constitutional Foundation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 11:05 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 07:47 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
How do you know? It's never happened before.
Umm...because I paid attention in school and remember learning about it.
Read section 3 of the 20th Amendment...under Constitutional Foundation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession
Lol I thought that's what the VP was for all along.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 07:47 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Oct 30, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Oct 30, 2008, 04:40 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Oct 29, 2008, 08:04 PM
America has killed any president in this country that ever tryed to bring about even the smallest change for a truely positive cause, but I've never considered asassination for obama, it would be wayyyyy to obvious on the C.I.A.'s part. They know the people would revolt against them and bury them then if that happened.
You're a fucking idiot.
People still believe Lee Harvey Ballswad did it and that Osama blew up the Twin Towers even with the overwhelming amount of evidence that says that these things did not happen the way the government told us.
I don't know if anyone can answer this question, but what would happen if say, someone is elected president, but dies before they take office? Who rules then? Could be a way for Bush to remain in power. Or for McCain to weasel his way into office.
I do believe the VP would be next in line.
How do you know? It's never happened before.
It would work the same. Bush would not be allowed to go past 8 years. They made that a law after FDR. And assuming Obama wins, McCain would not take the office. Because he was not elected. Obama
Biden would be elected. So Biden would take office. Then the secretary of state. Then...hmm... is it the speaker of the house? Down to like the secretary of defense or treasury or some shit. all the way down to ambassadors. Its a long ass list. I don't have enough time on this computer left to look it up.
How about this? If Obama wins, he will be an unConstitutional President of the United States and I'm pretty sure a lot of people will NOT find that fair. I am guessing this will be when people riot or start full on marching.
Obama is NOT American. How can people vote for someone like this?
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1614/pub_detail.asp
(http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/imgLib/20081010_obama_stunned_look.jpg)
October 28, 2008
The Great Obama Swindle of 2008
Raymond Kraft
PART ONE
OBAMA: THE ILLEGAL ALIEN
I have become 100% convinced, to a moral certainty, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Barack Obama is not only not a "natural born citizen" as required by the U.S. Constitution to be president, but that he was not even born in the USA, not born in Hawaii, probably in Kenya, never naturalized. If he is elected, he will be the UnConstitutional President from the moment he takes the oath of office, the first president who is not a citizen of the United States.
Why I am so sure?
I was not convinced by the lawsuits filed by Philip Berg, Andy Martin, Jerome Corsi, and others seeking disclosure of Obama's birth certificate. I was not convinced by the books and articles that now abound contesting Obama's origins. I was convinced by the behavior of Barack Obama and his lawyers, asking the governor of Hawaii to seal Obama's birth certificate so it could not be seen, by anyone, and by the behavior of Barack Obama and his lawyers, sealing his records at Columbia University and Harvard Law. Barack Obama is hiding himself from America. And he wants to be POTUS, and Commander-in-Chief.
In the litigation business, one quickly learns that if somebody has a document that will be good for them, they can't wait to give it to you. And if somebody has a document that will hurt them, they'll be tap dancing faster than Richard Gere in Chicago to keep you from getting it.
Obama is tap dancing.
If I were Obama's lawyers, and if there was a good, authentic, birth certificate that proved Barack Obama's birth in Hawaii, I would tell him to instruct the Hawaiian Department of Health to provide a certified copy to every journalist who asked about it, to the Courts and plaintiffs in all the lawsuits, and to make the original available for inspection by any expert forensic document examiner any litigant or news agency engaged to examine the birth certificate for authenticity. I would tell him to come clean, and end the speculation. And I would tell him that the speculation could cost him the election.
But that's not what Obama's lawyers are doing, they're filling motions for summary judgment, not on the merits of the case, but on "technicalities," at least in the Berg case, arguing that Citizens, voters, do not have standing to enforce the United States Constitution, and at least one judge, Richard Barclay Surrick, has agreed.
But what Obama and his lawyers and the Democrat National Committee (DNC) are not doing is being open and honest with America. They're tap dancing faster than Richard Gere in Chicago. So we are forced to this conclusion as a matter of logical necessity:
1. If Barack Obama could produce a good birth certificate that would verify his status as a "natural born citizen," he would. Failing to do so can only hurt him. Failing to do so can cost him the election.
2. He hasn't, and is doing all possible not to.
3. Therefore, we can only conclude that he can't, and that his birth certificate, if it exists at all, is either altered, forged, or shows him born outside the U.S. We have to conclude that producing his birth certificate, if he can, will prove he is not eligible to be president, not a natural born citizen, or not a citizen at all. We can only conclude that Obama and his lawyers know that producing his birth records will hurt him even more than not producing them.
Now, I could be wrong. Barack Obama can prove me wrong by producing a good birth certificate. But he hasn't. Will he? Can he?
PART TWO
NO "STANDING" TO SUE?
In the case of Berg v. Obama, US Federal Judge Richard Barclay Surrick agreed with Obama's lawyers and ruled that Berg, as a citizen, as a voter, has no "standing" to enforce the United States Constitution. I have read that other agencies have asserted that only another presidential candidate has standing to sue respecting the qualifications of a candidate, presumably because, arguendo, only another presidential candidate could be injured (lose an election) as a result of a non-qualified candidate on the ballot.
This may be the most patently absurd, illogical, incomprehensible, astonishing, mind-boggling, and utterly stupid argument I have ever heard in my life – and from a Federal Judge, at that. And if I didn't make myself perfectly clear, let me know and I'll try again.
Let's do the analysis.
1. The U.S. Constitution is a CONTRACT between The People, The States, and The United States, the federal government, that defines and limits the role of the federal government, and the rights of the States and The People, and, among other things, defines and limits the qualifications for president, i.e., that the president must be over the age of 35 years, and must be a natural born citizen.
2. Any party to a CONTRACT has standing to enforce it. This is as basic as it gets. Contract Law 101. First week of law school stuff. And it seems that lawyers and judges all over the country have forgotten all about it. Also, the Constitution was intended to benefit all American citizens, We, The People, and in basic contract law the intended beneficiaries of a CONTRACT, i.e., us, also have standing to enforce it.
3. If We, The People, do not have standing to enforce the CONTRACT, the U.S. Constitution, then it is unenforceable, and if it is unenforceable it is just a historic curiosity that means nothing. It's just an old piece of parchment. But that was not the intent, and to give intent to the CONTRACT it must be enforceable by its parties and beneficiaries.
4. We, The People, have standing under the First Amendment "to petition the government for redress of grievances." If we have a grievance that a non-citizen, illegal alien, is running for president, I think the First Amendment unequivocally gives every American citizen standing to sue the government to redress that grievance and enforce the Constitution.
I think Judge Richard Barclay Surrick is dead wrong, illogically wrong, irrationally wrong, legally wrong, I think his legal analysis of this issue, in legalese, stinks.
PART THREE
THE DUTY OF CONGRESS
Article II, Section 1, requires that upon taking office the President of the United States shall take the following oath:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the
United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution
of the United States."
Article VI, Clause 3, requires that Senators and Representatives requires:
"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution . . ."
Members of Congress take this oath:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
Having taken this oath, Sen. Barack Obama has violated his oath of office if he is refusing to disclose a birth certificate that proves his candidacy for president is unconstitutional, and I believe this is a mandatory basis for his impeachment.
Having taken these oaths, the President, the Vice President (an executive officer of the United States), every member of the Senate and House, every member of every State legislature, and every executive and judicial officers of the United States and of each State, has a mandatory duty per Article VI Clause 3 of the US Constitution to "support and defend" the Constitution, and that would necessarily include taking whatever action is necessary to assure that no person who does not meet the Constitutional requirement of "natural born citizen" ever becomes President.
And every Federal Judge, and every Justice of the Supreme Court, having taken this oath, also have a mandatory duty to "protect and defend" the Constitution by doing whatever is necessary to assure that no person who does not meet the Constitutional requirement of "natural born citizen" ever becomes President. Indeed, I believe that the Supreme Court has a sua sponte duty to resolve this dispute by ordering, on its own initiative, the immediate production of all of Obama's birth records in order to confirm his place of birth, and prevent the election of an UnConstitutional President. So far, all Justices of the Supreme Court have failed this mandatory duty.
So far, the President, the Vice President, every member of Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, ever Federal Judge and Justice, every member of every State legislature, and every governor, have failed in this duty. They have all failed to fulfill their oaths of office. Every one. They must all demand that Sen. Barack Obama either (a) produce a good birth certificate proving his status as a "natural born citizen," or (b) withdraw his candidacy before November 4th.
All those who do not should be impeached for having failed their oath of office.
PART FOUR
THE GREATEST SWINDLE IN HISTORY
If Senator Barack Hussein Obama cannot prove that he is a "natural born citizen," then Obama, the Democrat National Committee, the Democrats in the Senate and House who support him, and others such as former president Bill Clinton who openly support him, have perpetrated the greatest swindle in history by falsely and fraudulently misrepresenting Obama as Constitutionally eligible to be president, concealing the truth about his place of birth, thereby inducing millions of Democrats by the fraud of concealment, by the lie of non-disclosure, by "trick and device," to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the Barack Obama presidential campaign to elect an UnConstitutional President.
My opinion.
Note, this is a fraud perpetrated by Sen. Barack Obama, the DNC, and hundreds of Democrats in Congress, on their own constituency, the Democrat voters of America. It is a fraud of the Democrats, by the Democrats, and perpetrated on the Democrats. And it has defrauded Democrats out of more than $600 million.
According to their oaths of office, every Democrat member of Congress has an affirmative duty to assure that their presidential candidate is constitutionally qualified. As soon as questions about Obama's birth arose, every Democrat in Congress had a mandatory duty to confirm his eligibility by demanding release of his birth records. But, they have not. Not to my knowledge. Instead, every Democrat in Congress is complicit in the cover up – the cover up – of Obama's birth certificate, by failing to demand full disclosure to confirm his place of birth.
In my opinion, unless Obama can produce a good birth certificate proving that he is a "natural born citizen," then every Democrat member of Congress, every person managing Obama's campaign, every officer and director of the Democrat National Commitee, and every person who has ever taken an oath to "support and defend" the Constitution and is now supporting an UnConstitutional candidate for president, has participated in a vast left-wing conspiracy to defraud millions of Democrats out of hundreds of millions of dollars to elect an UnConstitutional President.
In my opinion, every one of these people, hundreds of them, should be prosecuted for fraud under the Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), for if Obama is not a "natural born citizen," that is what the Democrat National Committee (DNC) has become. And every one of them should be tried, convicted, and sent to prison for decades, for this is a $600 billion swindle of America's Democrats, a swindle perpetrated by the DNC and Barack Obama.
Now, I could be wrong. I could be wrong about every opinion I have expressed here.
Sen. Barack Hussein Obama can prove me wrong, quickly, simply, easily, by opening the doors of the hospitals and the Hawaiian Department of Health and showing us, showing America, showing the Democrats, all of his birth records.
Unless and until he does, I will remain convinced that Barack Hussein Obama is not an American citizen.
FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Raymond S. Kraft is an attorney and writer in Northern California. He can be contacted at rskraft@vfr.net.
it was nice of that right-wing website to use Obama's middle name several times in there. But anyway, i would think there would be some sort of background check of candidates this far into the election process, let alone years ago when he began a career as an elected public official
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 31, 2008, 02:21 PM
it was nice of that right-wing website to use Obama's middle name several times in there. But anyway, i would think there would be some sort of background check of candidates this far into the election process, let alone years ago when he began a career as an elected public official
yeah, that seems logical. you would think if this was true, it would be a bigger story. remember how big a fuss was made because mccain was born in panama
Who fucking cares anyway ?
As long as he's good to do the job, why fucking cares with stupid ass details....
Quote from: tarkil on Oct 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
Who fucking cares anyway ?
As long as he's good to do the job, why fucking cares with stupid ass details....
We certainly dont want a frenchman who lives in hong kong running things is why ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well I hope for you you don't want... Else you'd be pretty much fucked up.... :)
Quote from: tarkil on Oct 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
Who fucking cares anyway ?
As long as he's good to do the job, why fucking cares with stupid ass details....
legally, it does matter that politicians are citizens.
but i'm with you, elections are about who is BEST FOR THE JOB
People wanna clown Obama and he's showing them he's a true african, he's got that wisdom, and he doesn't need to go make immature blows like the Wrong Wing. They wanna put him down for being Muslim, even though he's not, but if he were, he'd be that much better, muslims got nothing but respect for the world and it's laws, they'll do anything to link him with the terrorists who really aren't terrorists, TOP RANKIN'.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96227586
Obama's Candidacy Angers, Excites Hate Groups
Read 1/3 down the article -
"There is a probable hypothesis that in the event that Obama becomes president that you could have a galvanization of these white supremacist groups," said John Karl, the officer in charge of the Los Angeles Police Department's criminal conspiracy unit. "Obviously, law enforcement needs to be prepared, and how do you prepare? You need to become as resourceful and comprehensively understand the groups and individuals involved."
Karl says the First Amendment ties law enforcement's hands. Officers cannot move in until and unless these groups actually commit a crime.
"If no crime has been committed, no activity has come up on the radar screen, we can't arbitrarily start rounding people up," he said. "There is a little problem with the Constitution and things like that."
This is why Obama is so against our 2nd amendment. They know thta if he becomes president, there will be some backlash to it and they can take away our guns, people against Obama will be labels terrorists...etc etc....this is going to be fun.
I hope he does take away their guns.
thats pretty fucked someone would say that. if you support the second amendment, you should support the first amendment, which enables the second amendment from vanishing. and anyone who says the constitution is a hinderance is the true terrorist
Quote from: goldpony on Nov 01, 2008, 12:30 AM
thats pretty fucked someone would say that. if you support the second amendment, you should support the first amendment, which enables the second amendment from vanishing. and anyone who says the constitution is a hinderance is the true terrorist
Second ammendment, first amendment, alls it is, is numbers to me, and that's all it's been to this goverment from the start anyway. If that hasn't been apparent these last 8 years to you, then not only are they the terrorists, but so are you. If you believe in guns, what kind of belief is that? What do you need to Kill? What do you need to gain from a weapon? If you had a true heart, then you wouldn't need weapons. That's soft.
First off anyone who thinks that the Constitution means a damn thing anymore is fucking ignorant. Our government doesn't give a fuck about it anymore and the most we can hope for is one person, born here or not, that can make a positive difference. If you wanna get into doing by the law on everything in government maybe you should look at the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. The latter was done overnight and wasn't questioned by anyone. With shit like this going on I think the least of our worries is a president that might be born somewhere else. As far as I'm concerned he's American. He lives, works, pays taxes (which also contradicts the Constitution), and does positive community service in our nation. Fuck the technicalities that's all anyone opposing him has anymore. He's more "American" than a lot of people born here will ever be.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 26, 2008, 11:07 AM
i just read he wants death penalty for child rape.
anyone else thinking this is pretty dumb?
Do you think child rape is a joke? its very extreme but, i think its justified. raping children is an appauling act! thats just wrong u know..i mean, its like, be a man u know, thats why men and women work so well together
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 31, 2008, 05:13 PM
Quote from: tarkil on Oct 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
Who fucking cares anyway ?
As long as he's good to do the job, why fucking cares with stupid ass details....
legally, it does matter that politicians are citizens.
but i'm with you, elections are about who is BEST FOR THE JOB
Bull shit dude. Bull fucking shit. If these elections were truly about the best man for the job, Obama wouldn't have a prayers chance. How many times just on this board have I heard " oh well that 3rd party candidate is great, but he doesn't stand a chance to win, so ill vote for the lesser of two evils" ? If it was truly about the best man for the job. We would probably have something like 6 -8 legit candidates. We would have true substance instead of talking points. You would really have to prove that you were the best person for the job. That you really have the best plan of the big issues. The American people would listen to facts and new ideas instead of charisma. This election isn't even close to "the best man for the job"
And the rest of you who are so obsessed with Obama need to wake the fuck up. He is no where near as great as so many people think he is. His entire political career has been based on inaction. Just play it safe then use hind site to speak about the issue. His entire campaign has been about empty slogans to which he offers no explanations or real plans. Its amazing how many people just fell in love with him due to his story and charisma, instead of his plans for the country.
Oh, and the Patriot act is bull shit. A 100% derailing of our republic. It is more unconstitutional than anything I can think of. But the constitution does still matter. It is still the supreme law of the US. If people would get off their ass and make it a point that they wanted the supreme court to try all these unconstitutional legislations, it might just happen. It's called checks and balances for a reason. The founding fathers knew that undoubting one of the 3 branches would try to expand its power. So anyways, I'm sure you all understand that. Quit griping about how fucked we are and how the constitution doesnt matter anymore. Do something about it.
Americans tend to turn their favorite candidates into saviors with each election. It's sad but true. I have to laugh at my brother who will fight to the death about his choice like the guy has been in his close circle of friends and donated a kidney to our mother lol. We need to eliminate parties. It's not like we can't decide whether or not the candidates stand for what we want without a label, right? Most people just pick the affiliation then swear their allegiance. Pathetic.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 01, 2008, 12:02 PM
Quit griping about how fucked we are and how the constitution doesnt matter anymore. Do something about it.
but what? we need guidance, oh great one!
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 31, 2008, 02:21 PM
it was nice of that right-wing website to use Obama's middle name several times in there. But anyway, i would think there would be some sort of background check of candidates this far into the election process, let alone years ago when he began a career as an elected public official
Yes. The same goes for the idea that Obama is muslim extremist/terrorist...how would he have gotten as far as he did? IF Obama was a terrorist, then it's the Good Ol' USA that's fucked up.
I think if we elect this man for president, it will shine a little hope that the U.S. truly does stand for equality, freedom and your rights as a human being. Afterall, those are the buildings blocks are fore fathers build this country on, right? Finally, there will be black president who will change something for our country, and possibly the world. Who knows? I'm not saying McCain isn't good enough for the job but just too reminiscent of George W. Bush in my opinion. Anyway, I know who I'm voting for Nov. 4th.
He is not going to better this country. He is a puppet. A face for the corporations that give MILLIONS of dollars for his campaign. He doesn't owe anything to us. He just has to make sure these corporations get their tax cuts.
Trust me. Joe Biden said we would not like the decisions he is going to make even though NOTHING has happened for them to know which ones they will make.
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Nov 01, 2008, 08:15 PM
Americans tend to turn their favorite candidates into saviors with each election. It's sad but true. I have to laugh at my brother who will fight to the death about his choice like the guy has been in his close circle of friends and donated a kidney to our mother lol. We need to eliminate parties. It's not like we can't decide whether or not the candidates stand for what we want without a label, right? Most people just pick the affiliation then swear their allegiance. Pathetic.
Very true
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 02, 2008, 05:31 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 01, 2008, 12:02 PM
Quit griping about how fucked we are and how the constitution doesnt matter anymore. Do something about it.
but what? we need guidance, oh great one!
um, Vote for a candidate who stands for what the country actually needs ( NOT OBAMA OR MCCAIN ), start a petition, call your congressman, run for office, pick an issue that matters to you and start a web site and try to attract attention to it, talk to people like we do here, talk to people on the street, join a debate club, join a local political affiliated club, get on a local city board, start a blog...... you can't tell me that you lack this much creativity to not even get this far. You could join the police department and refuse to arrest anyone for possession of Marijuana. You could join a federal law enforcement agency with the aspirations of rising far enough to the top to stop the agency from violating citizens constitutional rights. You could join the military because you believe in the war on terror, or because you don't and you want to show it by being a conscientious objector, you could study journalism with aspirations of not falling into the normal media black out of important issues that done benefit the company.........all these take more balls of course. Just depends how passionate you are.
I personally strike up a lot of personal conversations with people I meet. Usually from work. If they seem interested I will buy them a copy of Ron Pauls book. The only condition being that they read the whole thing and pass it on to someone else when they are done. I have given out 5 so far. Convinced 3 others to buy their own and read it ( because I did not live in their proximity) But it's only been a couple months. So I don't think that is too bad. I am also aiming my college studies towards subjects that I believe would make a better breed of politician. In the mean time I read books to try and self educate. I know my current political opinions are young and will need to mature a bit before I am sound in them. But that's why I like talking about them so much. It challenges them, so see if its what I really believe, or if there is something better out there.
but pretty much. If you vote Obama or McCain in this election. You will perpetuate the cycle. Ill admit, I voted today, and I was really tempted to vote McCain. Not because I think he is great. But because Obama's socialistic views scare the shit out of me. But once again, that is voting for the lesser of two evils. I just can't do that anymore. So I proudly voted 3rd party.
Quote from: Shaye on Nov 03, 2008, 02:21 AM
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Oct 31, 2008, 02:21 PM
it was nice of that right-wing website to use Obama's middle name several times in there. But anyway, i would think there would be some sort of background check of candidates this far into the election process, let alone years ago when he began a career as an elected public official
Yes. The same goes for the idea that Obama is muslim extremist/terrorist...how would he have gotten as far as he did? IF Obama was a terrorist, then it's the Good Ol' USA that's fucked up.
well duh shaye ;) The only people saying that shit are the few racist hermit loonies that the cameras always seem to find. Your average republican does not think that Obama is a terrorist. I'm sure that their are plenty of democrats out their preaching about Obama giving special prvliges to black people. About re segregation but black people on top this time. And how McCain will further drive the black man into slavery. The media just happens to not pick up that 1 or 2% of the democrats out there. Come on now, both of you are smarter than to fall for that shit
Quote from: ImperfectCircle on Nov 03, 2008, 02:52 AM
I think if we elect this man for president, it will shine a little hope that the U.S. truly does stand for equality, freedom and your rights as a human being. Afterall, those are the buildings blocks are fore fathers build this country on, right? Finally, there will be black president who will change something for our country, and possibly the world. Who knows? I'm not saying McCain isn't good enough for the job but just too reminiscent of George W. Bush in my opinion. Anyway, I know who I'm voting for Nov. 4th.
This is a perfect example of how mislead our nation has become. Just the simple fact that you brought up the fact that he was black ( and that it is a positive thing instead of a neutral thing ) shows racism.
and no, thats not what the founding fathers built our country on. They were trying to build a country that was a true republic. A land of freedom sure. But a land where the people controled the government. That was key. We the people, thats where the building blocks are. Not in the ideals, but in the way they envisioned a government being ran.
and just for shits and giggles ( because I know you cant answer ) what exactly is Obama going to change?
OOH OOH!! *waives hand*
Well for one...he will change the "white man" persona that has been in the white house since forever! OoooOOOh...
I'm kiddin.
Right, because that's really important when it comes to governing a country. I know you were just joking. But you know a lot of people are voting just for that. It's sick how racist this country is
I agree. It's a horrible reason to vote for someone. I mean...I REALLY wanted a woman in office,but would not vote for McCain cause he has a female running mate.
It just doesn't matter to me. I just dont understand why people HAVE to think in groups.
Birds of a feather....
I actually agree with you about bringing up race, Race is an allusion, to me anyway, I don't look at life through a glass filled with smoke, everyone is the same, so being in I man's position I've never bought into race, knowing very well the Curses cast upon the so called African Americans brought here on slave ships to the western hemisphere, who were really the true Hebrew Israelites. Anyway, I don't care what the people may say, no nation is greater than another, but don't forget how America was truly built, dig deep if you don't already know, it was built off of every sin in any book and in any true heart, and is bloody apparent to those on the bottom of this so called shit stem system. I know if you all are happy because you can go drink and fornicate that you won't see it from another perspective, but that's the truth, and If this nation was even half as great as it says it, it wouldn't be that way. Nothing that starts out of complete Hatred can ever end in Love, basic facts of life.
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban1032l.jpg)
Eh, I don't think it shows racism simply because I noted he was black, so don't you even pull the race card. I'm a very neutral person, I don't choose sides when it comes to political parties, I vote for the person who I believe will do better for our country. Not counting the theories and claims of how he's just a figure head or some corporate puppet type deal. As for what he's going to change, we'll see. I'd rather him change something than McCain.
And who's saying I'm voting for him because he's black? I think you guys might've misinterpreted what I said.
You stated that by him being elected it will show that America believes in equality. That statement alone is racist in nature.
Then you said FINALLY we will have a black president. You meant that in a positive way. As in it is a positive thing that he is Black. One would only assume that you meant it is a positive thing that he is black instead of white, seeing as how white is the only other race the president has ever been.
and you also said that he would change things. As in, its a fact that he will change something. So I'm either fishing for you to tell me what that change is. Or admit that you fell victim to blindly follow a candidate due to branding and advertising.
No matter who you vote for it will be because you "blindly follow a candidate due to branding and advertising."
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 03, 2008, 03:40 AM
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban1032l.jpg)
brilliant!
Lol, everyone is on a bandwagon of some sort at more than one point in their lives. Which reminds me of this quote for some reason, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
I think it's funny referring to the presidency as a "bandwagon" though. I actually lost a tiny bit more hope in humanity there.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 03, 2008, 03:57 AM
You stated that by him being elected it will show that America believes in equality. That statement alone is racist in nature.
Then you said FINALLY we will have a black president. You meant that in a positive way. As in it is a positive thing that he is Black. One would only assume that you meant it is a positive thing that he is black instead of white, seeing as how white is the only other race the president has ever been.
and you also said that he would change things. As in, its a fact that he will change something. So I'm either fishing for you to tell me what that change is. Or admit that you fell victim to blindly follow a candidate due to branding and advertising.
Why did you vote for Obama?
I didn't
he voted for me....cuz i rawk!
lol
I can't even come up with any reason why he would have thought that I voted for Obama.
I misread a quote somewhere..only reason I said it.
Ok. But we all agree that you have no idea why you voted for Obama right? You agree to falling victim to political branding and an inspiring but empty campaign slogan? I'm just basing this off your lack of an answer.
Who's we? No one agrees with you except Kelly. I'm voting for him because I don't want McCain running this country. Not because he's white, but because he's an old bastard and he has old ideals. Honestly, I would vote for Nader but it doesn't look like he will win this time.
Ok. So then we ( you and me ) agree that you don't know why you are voting for Obama. You just know you don't like McCain. You also know that their is another presidential candidate that you do like better but you aren't voting for him. Ok, we ( you and me ) agree on that?
Quote from: ImperfectCircle on Nov 04, 2008, 01:02 AM
Who's we? No one agrees with you except Kelly. I'm voting for him because I don't want McCain running this country. Not because he's white, but because he's an old bastard and he has old ideals. Honestly, I would vote for Nader but it doesn't look like he will win this time.
dude i'll agree with you haha
Quote from: Variable on Nov 04, 2008, 01:16 AM
Ok. So then we ( you and me ) agree that you don't know why you are voting for Obama. You just know you don't like McCain. You also know that their is another presidential candidate that you do like better but you aren't voting for him. Ok, we ( you and me ) agree on that?
Wrong. I know why I'm voting for Obama. We can agree that I don't like McCain. Are you done yet?
not until you tell me why you are voting for Obama. Unless your actual answer is because you don't like McCain. Even though the question was " what exactly is Obama going to change?"
For one, he'll change the economy; create more jobs; end a war. On every aspect he is so much better than McCain.
Mccain would easily be the worst president ever especially with Palin behind him, which is no lie, they are coming in with the same Propaganda as the worst president right before him BUSH and sarah keeps talking about the similarites between their campaign and REGAN'S and their Selling their lies just like NIXON.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 04, 2008, 03:29 AM
For one, he'll change the economy; create more jobs; end a war. On every aspect he is so much better than McCain.
lol. Ok, change the economy how? Create more jobs how? And he has no desire to end the war. His own words say so. He wants us troops to be in Iraq indefinitely. The same as we are still in Europe, South Korea, Japan, Panama, Cuba............ He wants to stay in Iraq. McCain says that we have to stay until the job is done. Obama says that we have to pull out as soon as possible, but we can't until the job is done. See how that is the same thing? I really hope you do. It's called a spin man. Do you feel lied to yet?
Oh and how silly of me. I also forgot that he is going to put more "emphasis" on the war in Afghanistan ( another war he wants to continue indefinitely ) and he wants to start " counter terrorist operations " ( see the spin?) in Pakistan. A nation that if we violate their autonomy and sovereignty will go to war with us. Their government may or may not have the balls to do it. But the people will. I guarantee it. Ill show you pictures of it when I'm there.
you know, Bush ran as the peace candidate in 2000........Just saying.
umm...don't compare Obama to bush, that's quite a reach for you even. But even with this election- the 2 candidates' campaigns are completely different. Obama has a better proposed health care system. He's not going to raise my taxes- just those of the rich. He's honest. Obama and the Democrats don't use fear to persuade voters, he just uses facts against McCain. Obama doesn't have a burden as a running mate, like Palin is. Then there's the simple fact that McCain is an idiot. He has completely flip-flopped his views from 8 years ago. He seems more like a puppet now, just like Bush is. THERE is the bush connection- to McCain, not Obama.
And the way we vote is the way we vote. we're in America. You don't NEED to know why some people vote for who they want. You have to trust that Americans will vote for the someone that shares their beliefs.
You can always vote 3rd party. I don't care. But for the forseeable future, that probably does mean that your vote will count towards nothing.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 04, 2008, 04:33 AM
umm...don't compare Obama to bush, that's quite a reach for you even.
Why is quite a reach for him to
compare two people ...? when most Obama sheep only KNOW is he will "change" things. You can compare definates, but you can't say Obama will be a good president because he has an awesome PR firm this go round. You wanna know REAL change? How about changing the way this country is run [badly] to more of a republic. Ideas that will actually CHANGE things. Ron Paul :-) Nader :-) Jesse Venture [if he runs in he future]
How could you vote for someone who approved of the revision on the FISA bill? Or someone who voted YES on the bailout'?
More of the same. I'm tired of this administration thats has been going strong for 20 years.
Amen.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 04, 2008, 07:45 AM
How could you vote for someone who approved of the revision on the FISA bill? Or someone who voted YES on the bailout'?
More of the same. I'm tired of this administration thats has been going strong for 20 years.
have you thought that maybe the bailout could be good? i think we need more government now.
the trend of conservatives have been in charge for about 20 years now...you are right. Since Reagan, deregulation has killed us.
Bring on the regulation of the economy, guns, etc. Just DONT regulate private lives, like abortions, marriages, etc.
And the fact that you bring up Ventura is a joke.
you really have no idea what you are talking about. It makes it really hard to talk to you
http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/10/27/sarah_palin_fruit_flies/
Stupid bitch.
yeah, i read about that. it amazes me what people will choose to believe without doing any homework
i can't wait to "see" all you people's, who are against Obama, faces when he proves to be a great president.
i think he's exactly was america needs.
^5
Quote from: Azwethinkweiz on Nov 04, 2008, 07:09 PM
i can't wait to "see" all you people's, who are against Obama, faces when he proves to be a great president.
i think he's exactly was america needs.
Based on what? No one can even tell me what the fuck he is going to do. What is it that America needs? And how does Obama fill those shoes? Bright lights tried to say that he would stop the war. I think I made a pretty strong rebuttal ....that has still gone unanswered. He also said that he would fix the economy and create more jobs. Which is a total joke. The executive branch has little to do with either. But seeing as how no one took the time to respond to my other rebuttal, I wont waste my time with that one. It's amazing how content some of you are being uninformed.
Here , ill try to spin this in a different way as to how I am seeing most of you Obama supporters right now. It might be a bad example, but roll with it.
Ok, So I walk up to some dude named Phil on the street. Phil is getting ready to go for a run. Phil and I are both runners. I notice that Phil is wearing a new pair of Nike running shoes. I am getting ready to buy some new shoes myself, so I ask Phil about his shoes. " hey phil, why did you buy those shoes instead of a pair of Adidas, Oasics, Saucony, Brooks...ect ect?" Phil replies " Well dude I needed more shoes. So I was watching TV the other day and I saw a Nike commercial and they told me to Just do it. So I did." to which I ask " So you bought this pair of shoes based souly on the fact that a commercial presented by the company that makes the shoe, told you to do so?" Phil says " well yeah, that and they look cool. Thats how I picked this shoe instead of the other model. I just did it. Just like the commercial said to. " "Phil, did you even try on any other shoes?" " No man, the commercial told me that these were my shoes. I just did it." " But Phil, how do you know that another brand of shoe wouldn't serve you better?" " well because Nike told me to just do it. They have a great reputation. They are one of the most popular shoe brands in the world. Those other shoe commercials get all technical about running. It's too confusing. I just trust that Nike wouldn't lie to me. They are the #1 selling shoes in the world. They have to be good!" " So then you really just did it.....all because the commercial told you to?" " yeah man, Just do it. You will be happy too"......Any of you starting to see my point?
OOOOhh....so you're saying those of us voting for Obama haven't done any research? Or we're voting for him cause it's "the cool thing to do" and that Republicans are too smart for us to understand?
Once again, I never said shit about republicans or McCain. I'm just bringing up the point that when I ask people why they vote for Obama, or what it is that he is going to change. The only thing they can give me are lame ass campaign slogans. Thats all I'm saying.
But to be honest, no, I don't think that most of you have done any real research. I have talked to about 1 person who actually knows why she is voting for Obama. She just happens to be one of the smartest people I know. And she is studying constitutional law. That being said, she had good answers. I don't argue with her because as long as you are aware of who it is you are actually voting for, then I see it as your choice. I don't however for one second think that 95% of McCain supporters know why they are voting for him. Same goes for Obama supporters though.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 04, 2008, 08:15 PM
I don't however for one second think that 95% of McCain supporters know why they are voting for him. Same goes for Obama supporters though.
Just as long as you know it goes both ways. And I've done plenty of research about both candidates,I just feel no need to explain every detail of why I'm voting for the person I voted for to anyone. I don't have to justify anything to anybody. I'm completely comfortable whit who I voted for,and that's all that matters to me. Who you know and the fact that they "educationally explain why they are voting for Obama" means shit to me. Hell...if she's soo smart to you...maybe you should follow in her footsteps.
It has nothing to do with her education. But when she gives me answers, they revolve around how Obama is going to govern. Her and I don't see eye to eye on almost anything when it comes to politics. But she is one of my very best friends since the 7th grade. We totally respect each other and we have pleasant intelligent conversations. Not conversations riddled with lame ass campaign slogans. For example
She knows that Obama isn't going to stop war, or American imperialism. But she is ok with that. She doesn't think that the world can exist without a big brother superpower to control everything. So she figures it might as well be her country. She is voting for Obama BECAUSE HE IS GOING TO CONTINUE WAR. Not because she naively thinks it will end with him.
She likes the federal reserve. She doesn't think that an economy can survive without a central bank. So it doesn't matter to her that Obama supports this illegal banking cartel. She is voting for Obama because she realizes that the Federal Reserve's economic cycles are "boom" and "bust" she knows that we are in a bust cycle right now. But that Obama will leave everything AS IT IS RIGHT NOW and we will be back into a boom in a few years.
She is also a socialist. To a reasonable extent. She believes in a VERY strong central government. Redistribution of wealth. Regulation out the ass. And the general goodness of politicians to do the right things by the people.......yeah I have a hard time calling her intelligent after that one. But she is voting for Obama BECAUSE she knows that HE IS THE CLOSEST TO A SOCIALIST THAT WE WILL HAVE EVER HAD IN OFFICE. She knows the way a socialist government would govern a nation. She knows how Obama would govern. She thinks they are similar in some areas. So she likes him.
None of you have even given me the slightest hint that you know anything about the way Obama would actually govern. She does. Thats the difference. The system doesn't work if the people are not informed. And the people just happen to not be informed.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 04, 2008, 08:34 PM
HE IS THE CLOSEST TO A SOCIALIST THAT WE WILL HAVE EVER HAD IN OFFICE.
i'm not really against that, but socialism is another buzz word the republicans use to try to do what they do best....scare people to vote for them.
the closest thing to socialism we can attain is universal health care, which obama doesn't want.
Obama is actually not a socialist by definition. He is definitely a capitalist. However he does mirror some of their beliefs. None that would completely satisfy a socialist, but would offend them less than pretty much any other candidate who has ever ran. That's saying a lot taking into consideration FDR and Lyndon Johnson. So there is actually some validity to people ( not just the GOP ) calling him a socialist. But the thing is, that they actually don't know what true socialism is. So once again, an election being swayed by ignorance.
And I think I read your second statement wrong. Or else I am extremely misinformed. Because it's my understanding that Obama is proposing universal health care. Which is one of the biggest reasons I don't like him......or was that sarcasm? I need some clarity there.
Quote from: goldpony on Nov 04, 2008, 05:51 PM
yeah, i read about that. it amazes me what people will choose to believe without doing any homework
I agree, it's rather annoying being a researcher myself, I just find it worry that people find her convincing.
I totally understand that it's so easy to vote for Obama because everyone else is..just doing it. Some people are doing it and truly throwing their vote away for someone they don't believe in. But you have to understand that this man is going to make history, and he's going to ride the fuck out of this wave and change some shit up.
HOPE...CHANGE, whatever you wanna call it, it's with him.
Oh an since you called me stupid for comparing Obama and Bush. I guess I need to educate you a bit. Because you really should do research before talking. In short. In 1999 and 2000. For the 2000 presidential race. George W. Bush was very, very critical of the Clinton administration for all of their deployments of the U.S. military. here is an article where Bush criticizes Clinton for not having a Timeline for withdraw.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1891040
He also criticized Clinton because he deployed the US military more than any other president before him. He went even further and criticized Clinton for nation building. Here is a quote on that, and the article I got it from
In the 2000 presidential campaign, George W. Bush criticized the Clinton Administration for pursuing "nation building" in Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti and elsewhere, and he pledged that if elected, he would "absolutely not" do nation building. As president, however, George W. Bush embarked on...
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=JQmJ4c3GmVm8kSj9VRtQ5BdGwBlj34bW52Kv2l81pYpSs0XGTTJn!341839517?docId=5008328305
So I don't have time to personally cater to your education. That's what teachers get paid for. But if you care to do the research yourself. You will see that in 1999-2000. George W. Bush did to Bill Clinton the same thing that Obama is doing to Bush now. Bush was the peace candidate. But we all know how that turned out now don't we. Don't believe everything a politician tells you. I guarantee you more war with Obama. But yeah, that's why my stupid self compared to Bush and Obama. They both ran as the peace candidates during their first elections.
and finally, just for fun. Here is a quote from Clinton in his state of the Union address, just to show that democrats and their democrat heroes are not as innocent as they play
"Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world," and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again."
Quote from: ImperfectCircle on Nov 05, 2008, 12:15 AM
I totally understand that it's so easy to vote for Obama because everyone else is..just doing it. Some people are doing it and truly throwing their vote away for someone they don't believe in. But you have to understand that this man is going to make history, and he's going to ride the fuck out of this wave and change some shit up.
HOPE...CHANGE, whatever you wanna call it, it's with him.
Any president will make history, duh. That's all part of being president. I think people are way too caught up on this "making history bull shit" Custer made history for America too.
My predictions are that Obama will be a pretty average president. Sure the economy will recover and he will get undue credit. But that's ok. The war in Iraq has already made a huge shift for the better. The war in Afghanistan is about to. He will get undue credit for that too. Especially when he is able to lower troop levels in Iraq due to decisions made before he was president. His health care plan will more than likely fail. Especially if anyone really looks into where he is going to get the money for all of it. But other than that. He will probably just mirror Clinton in most of his policies. I doubt very much revolutionary shit will go down with him as president. He has too much to lose being so close under the microscope. Maybe in a second term. But thats too far away for me to predict right now.
Hillary wants universal health care i believe. Obama just wants us to use the politicians' system. Which is cool, but I think a system like France's or Canada's would be great
dude, im pretty fucking sure you're wrong. Let me go look this up for you
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 12:22 AM
Oh an since you called me stupid for comparing Obama and Bush. I guess I need to educate you a bit. Because you really should do research before talking. In short. In 1999 and 2000. For the 2000 presidential race. George W. Bush was very, very critical of the Clinton administration for all of their deployments of the U.S. military. here is an article where Bush criticizes Clinton for not having a Timeline for withdraw.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1891040
He also criticized Clinton because he deployed the US military more than any other president before him. He went even further and criticized Clinton for nation building. Here is a quote on that, and the article I got it from
In the 2000 presidential campaign, George W. Bush criticized the Clinton Administration for pursuing "nation building" in Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti and elsewhere, and he pledged that if elected, he would "absolutely not" do nation building. As president, however, George W. Bush embarked on...
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=JQmJ4c3GmVm8kSj9VRtQ5BdGwBlj34bW52Kv2l81pYpSs0XGTTJn!341839517?docId=5008328305
So I don't have time to personally cater to your education. That's what teachers get paid for. But if you care to do the research yourself. You will see that in 1999-2000. George W. Bush did to Bill Clinton the same thing that Obama is doing to Bush now. Bush was the peace candidate. But we all know how that turned out now don't we. Don't believe everything a politician tells you. I guarantee you more war with Obama. But yeah, that's why my stupid self compared to Bush and Obama. They both ran as the peace candidates during their first elections.
cool im dumb
here you go right here.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070125-the_time_has_co/ (http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070125-the_time_has_co/)
"In the 2008 campaign, affordable, universal health care for every single American must not be a question of whether, it must be a question of how. We have the ideas, we have the resources, and we will have universal health care in this country by the end of the next president's first term."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-25-obama-health_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-25-obama-health_x.htm)
"The time has come for universal health care in America," Obama said at a conference of Families USA, a health care advocacy group.
dude, you didn't even know your candidates view on health care. And you said that's a reason you want to vote for him. Fuck me, when I'm right, I'm right.
So now we know that you don't like his views on the war, or health care. The things he said his first term would focus on the most. Yet ill bet you already voted for him. Sad. I would feel pretty fucking lied to right about now if I were you
im not pissed about his health care, i just prefer a publicly funded system of universal health care. Obama's plan is a step in the right direction.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
"The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing healthcare system"
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 05, 2008, 12:50 AM
im not pissed about his health care, i just prefer a publicly funded system of universal health care. Obama's plan is a step in the right direction.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
"The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing healthcare system"
HOW?!
Trey,it's pointless for you to write novels about this now. What's done is done. You're not changing anyones mind......pointless.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 05, 2008, 12:50 AM
im not pissed about his health care, i just prefer a publicly funded system of universal health care. Obama's plan is a step in the right direction.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
"The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing healthcare system"
lol, dude come on. Give it up. If you ever backed me into a corner even half this bad I would admit that you got me
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 01:00 AM
Trey,it's pointless for you to write novels about this now. What's done is done. You're not changing anyones mind......pointless.
I'm not trying to change anyones vote in this election. I'm trying to inform people. My goals are much more long term. I already know that I wont see a candidate elected in this election, or the next, or probably even the next, or the one after that. But maybe, someday before I'm 50. Enough people will have been informed about certain things and will start to hold their politicians to a higher standard. Maybe people will be inspired to do real research on their own.
It makes me wonder if you ever even listen to what I say. Because all along I have been saying that I'm not trying to change peoples votes. Just inform them. Don't get mad at me because you voted for a turd and you found out after the fact.
LOL..I'm not mad for voting for Obama. Hell...least I CAN say I didn't vote for Bush...biggest turd EVA! ;D
Fuck Tennessee for goin McCain. >:(
What can you expect?
Fuckin' rednecks.
HARHARHAR!!!!!! Dude...there are rednecks everywhere! There's just a lot of old money in the south,that's why they go red.
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 02:04 AM
HARHARHAR!!!!!! Dude...there are rednecks everywhere! There's just a lot of old money in the south,that's why they go red.
There aren't any rednecks in.......
......africa.............
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
You're a dumb motherfucker.
The fact you have any opionon on this at all makes you apart of it, so does your vote, fuck your views, keep fightin' your fake fight, you ain't shit. Peace!
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Nov 05, 2008, 02:19 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 02:04 AM
HARHARHAR!!!!!! Dude...there are rednecks everywhere! There's just a lot of old money in the south,that's why they go red.
There aren't any rednecks in.......
......africa.............
Oh but there is, especially in the deep dark south.
lol
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
opinions...assholes
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 02:22 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
You're a dumb motherfucker.
The fact you have any opionon on this at all makes you apart of it, so does your vote, fuck your views, keep fightin' your fake fight, you ain't shit. Peace!
ok guy, tell me how preaching your new-age hippie bullshit (with practically nonexistent sentence structure, and rarely a point) on a fuckin deftones message board is going to make your point heard to anyone that could possibly change things? i know that you've done way too much peyote to care, but really, unless you're gonna go grow weed in a shack somewhere, you're gonna be continually pissed off until you find someone to represent you who you can somewhat agree with, and, to repeat myself somewhat, that's not gonna happen by preachin on a deftones message board.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 01:19 AM
LOL..I'm not mad for voting for Obama. Hell...least I CAN say I didn't vote for Bush...biggest turd EVA! ;D
Yeah I did. Because I fell victim to the same kind of Branding that you fell victim to with Obama. That's not really something to brag about.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
Yeah. Most people have no clue what it means to be liberal or conservative. I'm pretty sure that probably no one on this board would be able to answer without looking it up first. Same goes with Republicans and Democrats. Its sad. But whats really stupid is that no one seems to care. No one seems to care enough to want to learn. Ignorance is bliss I guess. And NM may go Red most of the time. But Albuquerque and Santa Fe and liberal as fuck. It's rough to claim republicans around those parts.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 02:27 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
opinions...assholes
yeah, but some peoples opinions are actually worth listening to.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:57 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 02:22 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
You're a dumb motherfucker.
The fact you have any opionon on this at all makes you apart of it, so does your vote, fuck your views, keep fightin' your fake fight, you ain't shit. Peace!
ok guy, tell me how preaching your new-age hippie bullshit (with practically nonexistent sentence structure, and rarely a point) on a fuckin deftones message board is going to make your point heard to anyone that could possibly change things? i know that you've done way too much peyote to care, but really, unless you're gonna go grow weed in a shack somewhere, you're gonna be continually pissed off until you find someone to represent you who you can somewhat agree with, and, to repeat myself somewhat, that's not gonna happen by preachin on a deftones message board.
Who's trying to change anything? Even if god himself gave me the power to change the world, I wouldn't, It's ok if it's going down, All their is to percieve is what I want, and I know how to get it.
Who's preaching? Alls I say is what I think, and if crosses over into you're Politricks then so shall it be, but I'm going to remain free.
Peyote? I wish, Someday.
Growning herb? I'd love to know how and I'd be growing godly goodly herb to spread to all people, of all colors, and for unity.
And I'm not pissed, sorry if I came off that way, English is a tricky language, It's a very insaulting language, and then theres guys like you and Trey who think speaking a "highly mannered" version of it will make your dicks bigger. Infact smaller if you really wanna know.
And I could never trust another fellow homo sapien, nor would I want to put my trust or my vote into, I've already found someone I agree with on every word and who has outlined for me a philosophy and a true way that a man should live.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:57 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 02:22 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
You're a dumb motherfucker.
The fact you have any opionon on this at all makes you apart of it, so does your vote, fuck your views, keep fightin' your fake fight, you ain't shit. Peace!
ok guy, tell me how preaching your new-age hippie bullshit (with practically nonexistent sentence structure, and rarely a point) on a fuckin deftones message board is going to make your point heard to anyone that could possibly change things? i know that you've done way too much peyote to care, but really, unless you're gonna go grow weed in a shack somewhere, you're gonna be continually pissed off until you find someone to represent you who you can somewhat agree with, and, to repeat myself somewhat, that's not gonna happen by preachin on a deftones message board.
There are a lot of people out there who do not appreciate the value of a social contract. Probably because they don't know what a social contract is.
Say whatever you like Trey,just cause I don't feel like typing out novels like you explaining my reasons doesn't mean I made a bad choice. Just cause you don't agree with who I picked doesn't mean I'm uneducated for who I picked. I choose not to go into detail for my reasons on a message board. Give it a rest,you're not better than me. Fact. Be careful Trey,your Republican arrogance is showing.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 03:07 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:57 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 02:22 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
You're a dumb motherfucker.
The fact you have any opionon on this at all makes you apart of it, so does your vote, fuck your views, keep fightin' your fake fight, you ain't shit. Peace!
ok guy, tell me how preaching your new-age hippie bullshit (with practically nonexistent sentence structure, and rarely a point) on a fuckin deftones message board is going to make your point heard to anyone that could possibly change things? i know that you've done way too much peyote to care, but really, unless you're gonna go grow weed in a shack somewhere, you're gonna be continually pissed off until you find someone to represent you who you can somewhat agree with, and, to repeat myself somewhat, that's not gonna happen by preachin on a deftones message board.
There are a lot of people out there who do not appreciate the value of a social contract. Probably because they don't know what a social contract is.
Things and Things, your mind is so polluted with false webster definitions you basically just vetoed your soul to yourself never to be found again, so bye bye, the equivalant of a monkey right here, I can't give you anything, but a bananna I would.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103888/
:)
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 03:01 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:17 AM
trey, my man, pure fuckin gold. i've been preachin the EXACT same shit to my "liberal" friends that don't even know that they're not really liberal, and i've heard every single response in this thread before, same as i have on tv. People don't know anything, i'm saying that to every single fucking person that voted for one of those fucking jokesters today or whenever (barring, of course those like your friend who are actually informed about what they're trying to get this country into). I had the same trouble as you today at the polls, I nearly voted for McCain because Obama's commercialistic qualities and inane policies scare me so much, but I just couldn't, especially since MN is so unbelievably blue, figured it wouldn't matter anyway. So I voted Bob Barr and I feel fuckin wonderful about it. Keep fightin the good fight mate, I'll keep workin on it on my end. Even though New Mexico's way easier for you :)
Yeah. Most people have no clue what it means to be liberal or conservative. I'm pretty sure that probably no one on this board would be able to answer without looking it up first. Same goes with Republicans and Democrats. Its sad. But whats really stupid is that no one seems to care. No one seems to care enough to want to learn. Ignorance is bliss I guess. And NM may go Red most of the time. But Albuquerque and Santa Fe and liberal as fuck. It's rough to claim republicans around those parts.
word, i was just givin you some shit, we all know that everybody in our age range is liberal as fuck in general. i'm gonna totally sound like a nerd for sayin this, but goddamn, so many peoples' statuses on facebook were something obama related, and like no mccains.
but damn, nm went blue!
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 03:13 AM
Say whatever you like Trey,just cause I don't feel like typing out novels like you explaining my reasons doesn't mean I made a bad choice. Just cause you don't agree with who I picked doesn't mean I'm uneducated for who I picked. I choose not to go into detail for my reasons on a message board. Give it a rest,you're not better than me. Fact. Be careful Trey,your Republican arrogance is showing.
I didn't say I was better than you. And I am a republican by definition. Not because of anything you would associate a republican with. But that goes hand in hand with education. I said I was more informed, not better. I'm not the kind of person who will just say " Oh I am informed and I know everything. I don't need to listen to anyone else, I got this covered" I like discussing politics because it exposed me to other views that I might have not heard or evaluated yet. But I also won't sit here and call myself informed without proving it. You can tell me that you know something about Obama all day long. But until you prove it, you are just another ignorant ass Obama supporter to me. Because the numbers work against you there. Seems like most anyone I know who supports Obama has no reason why.
Oh, and these are simple thoughts. It takes me less than a min to type up all this shit. If it's too long or complicated for you guys. Then I really fucking feel sorry for you.
You want to see how I see most Obama supporters Kelly?
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 04, 2008, 09:05 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 04, 2008, 08:34 PM
HE IS THE CLOSEST TO A SOCIALIST THAT WE WILL HAVE EVER HAD IN OFFICE.
the closest thing to socialism we can attain is universal health care, which obama doesn't want.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 12:35 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-25-obama-health_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-25-obama-health_x.htm)
"The time has come for universal health care in America," Obama said at a conference of Families USA, a health care advocacy group.
and that is just one example of many in this thread alone that proves that most people are clueless. Thats not arrogance. Thats fucking truth. That is realizing reality and stating it. There is nothing arrogant at all about that.
I didn't have to go very far from home to get that. If I hit the streets with a video camera. You would be embarrassed to be claiming the same political party as these people.
Nothing you say is too complicated for me,I just choose not to debate it or discuss it on here.
then don't call him arrogant because he does. he could be a hell of a lot more condescending than he is.
*ignore*
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 03:39 AM
then don't call him arrogant because he does. he could be a hell of a lot more condescending than he is.
I really could actually. No one appreciates my restraint.
lol
MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
;D
as ignorant as this picture is, it's all in good fun. congrats democrats.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c203/rr21476/1225857328104.jpg)
.....ok?
Picture FAIL!
well... $521.9 million well spent? thank god for all the junk mail and the beautiful commercials.
It's done, Obama's in...
^5
Someone posted this on the nin board....
(http://barackobamakoolaid.com/images/Obama.jpg)
pretty fuct up.
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8449/1225857328104jn3.jpg)
When the hell was Siggy our president?
(http://riverridgewrestlingacademy.com/riverridgewrestlingacademy/images/william-mckinley-picture.jpg)
quite inaccurate
(http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/images/Freud%201938.jpg)
(http://www.eggextractor.com/sigmundfreud/sigmundfreud.jpg)
Dumbass.
well wtf is he doing there anyways?
Asking the country about their mothers.
watch obama get assassinated on live tv
(http://poolparty.typepad.com/poolparty/images/colonel_sanders.jpg)
CONSPIRACY!
THE COLONEL AND FREUD ARE THE SAME PERSON.
HAHA!!!
coz one as a man always wants to fuck the chicken
Uuuh fuck or choke?
hahaha
Voted for Nader. Not even a second thought. I was once lured by Obama's well done brainwashing tactics, but I started to read up on this non-american.
lol that was soooo third grade.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 05, 2008, 05:25 AM
Voted for Nader. Not even a second thought. I was once lured by Obama's well done brainwashing tactics, but I started to read up on this non-american.
Non American?
Yes. I don't believe he was born here. Is he from Indonesia? Kenya? Hawaii? Whats the deal?
A couple of states this past month have filed lawsuits stating Obama is not American, therefore he cannot be president. Obama's grandma dies yesterday [not sure if it was yesterday? but she was from Kenya and there is this video on youtube of her saying Obama was born in their village, yet the translators translated it wrong. I'll find it later.]...very peculiar.
Lol...he was born in Hawaii. I'm sure he could come up with a birth certificate if needed. And I'm SURE the American Government wouldn't let him run if he wasn't.
hawaii's not a state, though.
Uuh...yeah it is. It became a state August 21, 1959,and Obama was born in 1961. So he IS an American Citizen.
joke
ok whew.
It would be a better thing if he wern't born in America. and yes it is true he comes from the blackest of the black, the wisest of the wise, the most righteous of all righteous, try to hold that against him. I know you will.
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 06:46 AM
he comes from the blackest of the black
Not really...his momma's white.
Yeah but I'm talking about his dad, that dude was a struck match, dark as it gets.
why does that fucking matter? Why are you so racist?
dude, even he doesn't know what his fuckin babble means.
Well congratulations to all of you who wanted Obama to be the president. I'm sure a lot of people are happy today. This should prove to be interesting for sure.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:18 PM
dude, even he doesn't know what his fuckin babble means.
True.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 02:20 PM
Well congratulations to all of you who wanted Obama to be the president. I'm sure a lot of people are happy today. This should prove to be interesting for sure.
you know, you'd think people would've started researching stuff after they loved electing george bush, he fucked up and all of the sudden everybody wished they could unvote. but no, the laziness/ignorance continued and they just flip flopped to the mainstream party they thought was the opposite from, but couldn't be much closer to, the bush administration. this is definitely gonna be interesting, so much more regulation is gonna need to be fixed after he's out. i'm uneasy to say the least.
Im happy he won the election.
im not from the U.S but it was a global concern.
Compared to McCain, Obama seemd to actually WANT the job!! like the election was only a small part of his intentions, to win it firstly..but then to take the job on by the horns and work really hard to make the U.S a better place. McCain...pfff, he doesnt have the stones to handle the job.
its makes me proud as a human that the citizens of the U.S have created this change. well done. and if you didnt support him..tough shit.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:32 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 02:20 PM
Well congratulations to all of you who wanted Obama to be the president. I'm sure a lot of people are happy today. This should prove to be interesting for sure.
you know, you'd think people would've started researching stuff after they loved electing george bush, he fucked up and all of the sudden everybody wished they could unvote. but no, the laziness/ignorance continued and they just flip flopped to the mainstream party they thought was the opposite from, but couldn't be much closer to, the bush administration. this is definitely gonna be interesting, so much more regulation is gonna need to be fixed after he's out. i'm uneasy to say the least.
Yeah , you would think people would have learned from Bush being elected. How easy it is for politicians to fool the people. Especially when one is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a campaign. but nope. The most that 90% of these people know about Obama is "hope" and "change" like pre programed drones.
so, who thinks Obama will live long enough to actually make any changes? or will he even live long enough to even enter the white house?
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 02:42 PM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Nov 05, 2008, 02:32 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 02:20 PM
Well congratulations to all of you who wanted Obama to be the president. I'm sure a lot of people are happy today. This should prove to be interesting for sure.
you know, you'd think people would've started researching stuff after they loved electing george bush, he fucked up and all of the sudden everybody wished they could unvote. but no, the laziness/ignorance continued and they just flip flopped to the mainstream party they thought was the opposite from, but couldn't be much closer to, the bush administration. this is definitely gonna be interesting, so much more regulation is gonna need to be fixed after he's out. i'm uneasy to say the least.
Yeah , you would think people would have learned from Bush being elected. How easy it is for politicians to fool the people. Especially when one is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a campaign. but nope. The most that 90% of these people know about Obama is "hope" and "change" like pre programed drones.
i guess all we can do is just hope people learn this time, but after this bush thing, i really have my doubts. they really have it good in the two party system, someone in one camp fucks up, and it's OBVIOUSLY the other major one that's gonna change things, even though they undoubtedly had a hand in the cause of the problem.
Quote from: aenemic on Nov 05, 2008, 03:18 PM
so, who thinks Obama will live long enough to actually make any changes? or will he even live long enough to even enter the white house?
This I'm scared about. Not only for him,but what will happen afterwards...riots etc. :(
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 03:43 PM
Quote from: aenemic on Nov 05, 2008, 03:18 PM
so, who thinks Obama will live long enough to actually make any changes? or will he even live long enough to even enter the white house?
This I'm scared about. Not only for him,but what will happen afterwards...riots etc. :(
yeah exactly, don't even fuckin talk about it
if he were assassinated, i dont think there will be riots (unless it was found to be a white conspiracy). actually, as much as i hate to say it, his death would probably bring people together in a way not seen before
Oh I totally think there would be riots! Cause you know a retarded ass white redneck would do it.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 07:19 PM
Oh I totally think there would be riots! Cause you know a retarded ass white redneck would do it.
+1 If ... and I stress IF he was killed, you could almost bet it would be a racist redneck... and then it would spawn racial tension like never before. Fuck worrying about wars overseas. We could end up having one right here at home.
I think you're way over exaggerating that scenario.
1st off. I believe Obama will live to see his full term. If he is elected again. I believe he will live to see a 2nd term. The secret service is pretty dam good at what they do these days. If he was successfully assassinated. It would be above the level of a "redneck" with a hunting rifle.
2nd. You are all forgetting that white people are still the Majority in America. White America voted in a Black President. That speaks way louder than the actions of one man or a small group with an assassination plot. Spread that message around a bit instead of all this talk about him not making it.
3. Riots would for sure happen. But nothing like a civil war. People would just be really really upset. But Josh is right when he says that the country would come together. More than just the black community would feel the loss. So when everyone stands angry and weeping hand in hand, people would probably get a very clear demonstration as to why we are "these states united" Obama is our president ( or will be soon ) Everyone should respect that and only wish the best for him and our country. If something happened to him, we should all be outraged and sad as one. Trying to draw a line at ethnic divides would be so......fucking horrible. I really hope we are past that.
4. Quit fucking stereotyping every white person from a small town who dips tobacco and likes to hunt as racist rednecks. You fucking racist ass holes.
Yay Obama.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 08:05 PM
4. Quit fucking stereotyping every white person from a small town who dips tobacco and likes to hunt as racist rednecks. You fucking racist ass holes.
There are some part's of Tennessee you have never seen my friend. lol
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb41/mamalovesewe/Darth_Obama.jpg)
hahaha that's delicious
The last thing I am is racist, Trey. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are some serious redneck RACIST assholes out there who do NOT want a black president. There are also Arians. We can just close our eyes and say it won't ever happen.... but sadly enough it most certainly could.
You are correct tho in saying that IF it ever happened it would be .... beyond horrible. I love Obama. He is a glimmer of hope... I don't care for your arguement on it. I am allowed to have my feelings on it. I seriously hope you are correct that we will see him through his terms.... and I also seriously hope my gut feeling is right... that he will bring about a good change to our country.
"He that lives upon hope will die fasting." - Benjamin Franklin
Give me a break. It's not a bad thing to have HOPE. It's about time our nation felt something together. I loved seeing everyone gather in Grant Park as ONE.
BAAHHHHH
YES WE CAN! c'mon everyone...CHANT! SI SE PUEDE! NORTH AMERICAN UNION! BAHHH!
And what did he mean by saying this last night, "This is a new spirit of sacrifice. Let us summon a new spirit."
Fucking NWO satanist.
Oh no maybe Obama is the devil and he is here to hurt us and kill people and start wars and take away freedoms and nuke the world and use mind control and summon the crab people from underground
or maybe he is here to unite the nation
yeah, there's always that.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 05, 2008, 11:23 PM
Oh no maybe Obama is the devil and he is here to hurt us and kill people and start wars and take away freedoms and nuke the world and use mind control and summon the crab people from underground
or maybe he is here to unite the nation
That was Bush..silly! hahaha
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 05, 2008, 06:46 AM
It would be a better thing if he wern't born in America. and yes it is true he comes from the blackest of the black, the wisest of the wise, the most righteous of all righteous
Chuck D?
What DOES suck is the whole Prop 8 thing. I mean,people from Californians claim to be all open minded and new age,yet can't accept two people - of any color, race, creed, sexuality, or religion - marry each other and have the same basic rights as other couples.
haha jerry curls, are you serious? c'mon. what you're saying is ridiculous.
yeah, come on let 'em do what they want already. i really thought they were gonna go no on Prop 8
I happen to think that since this voting season brought out a lot more black people [who most may or may not be homophobic] brought this to be.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 05, 2008, 10:25 PM
BAAHHHHH
YES WE CAN! c'mon everyone...CHANT! SI SE PUEDE! NORTH AMERICAN UNION! BAHHH!
And what did he mean by saying this last night, "This is a new spirit of sacrifice. Let us summon a new spirit."
Fucking NWO satanist.
What's wrong with Satanism? That's a ridiculous remark.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 11:49 PM
What DOES suck is the whole Prop 8 thing. I mean,people from Californians claim to be all open minded and new age,yet can't accept two people - of any color, race, creed, sexuality, or religion - marry each other and have the same basic rights as other couples.
I was watching some coverage about that today. What bullshit. I get tired of people getting told what is and is not allowed. We need it to an extent, but c'mon.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 05, 2008, 02:06 PM
why does that fucking matter? Why are you so racist?
You're a gay aren't you? you really are, fuckin fagets! abominations!
anyway
That struck match Joke was off of Mo Money from Damon Waynes, so I guess you wanna diss me for it and Damon waynes gets paid millions for his "babble."
And it does matter because it's a great thing he comes from the children of cush, the mightiest hunter that ever lived.
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Nov 06, 2008, 12:38 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 05, 2008, 10:25 PM
BAAHHHHH
YES WE CAN! c'mon everyone...CHANT! SI SE PUEDE! NORTH AMERICAN UNION! BAHHH!
And what did he mean by saying this last night, "This is a new spirit of sacrifice. Let us summon a new spirit."
Fucking NWO satanist.
What's wrong with Satanism? That's a ridiculous remark.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 11:49 PM
What DOES suck is the whole Prop 8 thing. I mean,people from Californians claim to be all open minded and new age,yet can't accept two people - of any color, race, creed, sexuality, or religion - marry each other and have the same basic rights as other couples.
I was watching some coverage about that today. What bullshit. I get tired of people getting told what is and is not allowed. We need it to an extent, but c'mon.
Yeah..it's sad. I have 2 gay uncles,and I fully support them. One lives in LA with his boyfriend,and that's as far their relationship will go. I think if two people love each other,fuck,let them get married!
I worded my previous post wrong. lol Two things at once.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 06, 2008, 01:55 AM
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Nov 06, 2008, 12:38 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 05, 2008, 10:25 PM
BAAHHHHH
YES WE CAN! c'mon everyone...CHANT! SI SE PUEDE! NORTH AMERICAN UNION! BAHHH!
And what did he mean by saying this last night, "This is a new spirit of sacrifice. Let us summon a new spirit."
Fucking NWO satanist.
What's wrong with Satanism? That's a ridiculous remark.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 05, 2008, 11:49 PM
What DOES suck is the whole Prop 8 thing. I mean,people from Californians claim to be all open minded and new age,yet can't accept two people - of any color, race, creed, sexuality, or religion - marry each other and have the same basic rights as other couples.
I was watching some coverage about that today. What bullshit. I get tired of people getting told what is and is not allowed. We need it to an extent, but c'mon.
Yeah..it's sad. I have 2 gay uncles,and I fully support them. One lives in LA with his boyfriend,and that's as far as it will go. I think if two people love each other,fuck,let them get married!
Exactly. I think it's hard enough to find someone to trust and love so why the fuck do we have to have all these rules about it?
Trust no man!
black pride!!!!!!!!!!!
I did this silly political profile survey tonight:
Overall: 45% Conservative, 55% Liberal
Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal
Personal Responsibility: 0% Conservative, 100% Liberal
Fiscal Issues: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
Ethics: 0% Conservative, 100% Liberal
Defense and Crime: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal
ahahaha
(http://images.plurk.com/36733_e7f482ba81beda85c3717278242ee9a1.jpg)
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
::)
Yeah I know.....local bad taste pub joke.
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
hahaha, win!
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
*gasp*
Shame on you Ry!!!!
;)
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/kelsal/l_aa488ebb13a44511894fea3dc222893e.gif)
Lmfao @ that gif
I thought it was pretty funnay.
Listen.. Obama will not be assassinated..
If fucking George W. Bush did NOT get assassinated for all he's done.. there is NO way Obama will get assassinated.
But rednecks supported Bush. They have no common fucking sense.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 07, 2008, 11:40 PM
But rednecks supported Bush. They have no common fucking sense.
Yes, I know that like 90% of American's are dumbasses.. to have voted him in twice... but seriously.. for all the shit he did.. Obama's got a pretty good ride ahead.
i voted for obama, and im not sure if this is accurate, but from hwat i hear he is proposing a 50% inheritance tax. in other words, what ever you inherit from you family or anyonelse, you will only receive 59$ of that. I think its bullshit to tax inheritance. they should tax income like was planned.
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Actually, sales of guns and ammo have gone through the roof. Ammo prices are shooting up [pun intended]
This is for when Bush or Obama declares Martial Law and people can protect themselves.
Quote from: i kill for fun on Nov 08, 2008, 12:37 AM
i voted for obama, and im not sure if this is accurate, but from hwat i hear he is proposing a 50% inheritance tax. in other words, what ever you inherit from you family or anyonelse, you will only receive 59$ of that. I think its bullshit to tax inheritance. they should tax income like was planned.
any time a politician promises to provide more services to you, but will lower taxes, you have to call bull shit. The country is 10 trillion in debt. You are going to offer free health care, and lower taxes? I don't think so. Ah, the silver lining on Obama is already starting to show.
since when are we getting free health care (here we go again lolz)
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 01:20 AM
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Actually, sales of guns and ammo have gone through the roof. Ammo prices are shooting up [pun intended]
This is for when Bush or Obama declares Martial Law and people can protect themselves.
Where have you read this?
yeah, here we go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
Technically you still pay. You pay through increased taxes. And in a way less obvious way, you pay through lower standards of health care. That's why the US has not adopted this system. The research shows that when you adopt a public system, where public funds are used, the standard of care goes down. Or did you just think that all of us who oppose this just hate people and don't want anyone to be able to see the doctor? I know all of this idealism sounds cool in a fairy tale land. But its just not realistic. You will still pay out the ass ( in taxes ) but get worse health care than paying health insurance.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 08, 2008, 01:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 01:20 AM
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Actually, sales of guns and ammo have gone through the roof. Ammo prices are shooting up [pun intended]
This is for when Bush or Obama declares Martial Law and people can protect themselves.
Where have you read this?
Actually all of the Marines here at 29 palms are buying guns like crazy because supposedly the gun tax is going up by something ridiculous like 500% when Obama gets in office. I haven't actually seen it in writing though. That's just what everyone is talking about.
This is going to be fun:
http://change.gov/americaserves
America Serves
"When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation's challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
------------------------------------------------------------
Fuck that. Fuck Obama. Fuck CHANGE. I want the America I was promised and read about in history books. This looks like communism to me.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 02:05 AM
This is going to be fun:
http://change.gov/americaserves
America Serves
"When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
------------------------------------------------------------
Fuck that. Fuck Obama. Fuck CHANGE. I want the America I was promised and read about in history books. This looks like communism to me.
are you presenting this as a bad thing?
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 02:03 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 08, 2008, 01:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 01:20 AM
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Actually, sales of guns and ammo have gone through the roof. Ammo prices are shooting up [pun intended]
This is for when Bush or Obama declares Martial Law and people can protect themselves.
Where have you read this?
Actually all of the Marines here at 29 palms are buying guns like crazy because supposedly the gun tax is going up by something ridiculous like 500% when Obama gets in office. I haven't actually seen it in writing though. That's just what everyone is talking about.
Yeah well...Marines are pretty fucking psycho as far as i'm concerned.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 02:07 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 02:05 AM
This is going to be fun:
http://change.gov/americaserves
America Serves
"When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
------------------------------------------------------------
Fuck that. Fuck Obama. Fuck CHANGE. I want the America I was promised and read about in history books. This looks like communism to me.
are you presenting this as a bad thing?
Right.
Wrong.
Whatever. I'm over this man. Was never under him either [hahaha] This is going to be a fun couple of years. Done with this thread. Peace.
actually the gun sales report on a personal level seems to be true. Im from a rural part of virginia, and i know older people who actually went out about 6 months ago and bought several hand guns in addition to their collection on the beleif that if obama gets assassinated, the african american community is going to riot. So he carries these guns around with him always just in case this happens. Its ignorant, no doubt, but alot of conservative white people have in fact started buying more guns.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 08, 2008, 02:08 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 02:03 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 08, 2008, 01:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 01:20 AM
Quote from: fireflyry on Nov 07, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank god the yanks choose someone with an actual brain.
Obama has already done wonders for the economy.
Sales of white sheets, rope and shotguns have gone through the roof.
Actually, sales of guns and ammo have gone through the roof. Ammo prices are shooting up [pun intended]
This is for when Bush or Obama declares Martial Law and people can protect themselves.
Where have you read this?
Actually all of the Marines here at 29 palms are buying guns like crazy because supposedly the gun tax is going up by something ridiculous like 500% when Obama gets in office. I haven't actually seen it in writing though. That's just what everyone is talking about.
Yeah well...Marines are pretty fucking psycho as far as i'm concerned.
Some of them are dumb as rocks. But usually after they hit a certain rank....or like 3 years in the service. They get a lot better. Some of the most dynamic and intelligent people I have ever met are marines. It makes me sad when you guys stereotype all of the military to be mindless idiots and psychos. Because I know a lot of really great people in the military. But believe what you will I guess.
It doesn't change the fact that Obama is " Lowering taxes " aka income tax for the middle class but still taxing the fuck out of the corporations. AND raising taxes like crazy on non essential items. That sounds like raising taxes to me. Guess he forgot to mention that before you voted for him. In his defense though, that is technically change.
just saw this story on the news earlier.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6209255&page=1
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 08, 2008, 02:11 AM
Wrong.
Whatever. I'm over this man. Was never under him either [hahaha] This is going to be a fun couple of years. Done with this thread. Peace.
No I think you took me wrong. I was just confused as to what you were trying to say about that program
Oh I have no problems with any of the other branches of military,just the Marines. I've known quite a few in my life,an they needed therapy.
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
Meh...whatever
Navy>Marines
really, no
To me...yes.
ARMY > all.
imo.
But I'm biased.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
thank you. finally some smarts.
no need for war. ever.
Fuck war.
There may never be a logical need for war but it's in our nature and will never change.
i think the death sentence is awesome. rapists deserve to die anyway.
i bet
do you think that obama will make it better for the poor people?
whats messed up is that everyone knows a handful of people who voted for mccain not because
of where he stands on any issues just because he is a white man and obama is not.
its kinda sad how stupid and ignorant people are in our country.
I've often thought that if the day came for a draft,that people in prison should go before civilians had to.
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 08, 2008, 11:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
did he say that right before he sent troops to Vietnam?
Quote from: sharingbuns on Nov 09, 2008, 11:10 PM
do you think that obama will make it better for the poor people?
whats messed up is that everyone knows a handful of people who voted for mccain not because
of where he stands on any issues just because he is a white man and obama is not.
its kinda sad how stupid and ignorant people are in our country.
and no one voted for Obama just because he was black?
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 10, 2008, 01:23 AM
I've often thought that if the day came for a draft,that people in prison should go before civilians had to.
Yes, We should entrust our society to people who have a history of anti social behavior.
Doesn't matter anyways though. A draft is unconstitutional. It strips you of your rights. If you are drafted you already are a prisoner. Females don't have to worry about this though.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 08, 2008, 05:53 AM
To me...yes.
Quote from: White Pwny on Nov 08, 2008, 04:54 PM
ARMY > all.
imo.
But I'm biased.
Yet neither of you are in the military. And you are both basing your opinions from your grandfathers who came from very different eras in the US military. Trust me, the army aint worth a fuck these days. And the navy is nothing but a bunch of fat lazy pussies. Even the Marine corps is slipping. But they are still the closest thing we have to true warriors
Actually...my brother was in the navy,along with my uncle who works on submarines to this day,and my cousin who is 21 is in the navy....fuck you very much.
So....ur calling urself a fat lazy pussy? You DO wear the navy uniform,wether you're "technically" a marine or not.
Ok ok... WW2 ARMY FTW. Is that better?
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 10, 2008, 07:25 AM
Actually...my brother was in the navy,along with my uncle who works on submarines to this day,and my cousin who is 21 is in the navy....fuck you very much.
I actually knew that. I also figured you would bring it up. Just didn't feel like going though your family tree. Your granddad was a Master Chief. And the way you talk about him, you had a lot of respect for him. So I assumed ( and all the stereotypes that go along with it ) that the pinnacle of your views of the Navy stemmed from him so I used him as an example.
Quote from: devilinside on Nov 10, 2008, 07:28 AM
So....ur calling urself a fat lazy pussy? You DO wear the navy uniform,wether you're "technically" a marine or not.
And I realize that I am technically in the Navy. However I do wear marine uniform to work every single day. When I posted those pics of me in the Navy uniform. It was because it was the first time I wore a navy uniform in 2 years.
But in all seriousness all services have their pros and cons. Some navy guys are pretty cool. Some navy jobs are pretty cool. And I do have some navy pride. But I have seen the ins and outs of both services, and I'm really unimpressed with the majority of the navy.
Actually I'm really unimpressed at the rest of the military as a whole. Not because they are bad people. I meet really awesome people from all services. I am unimpressed at them as war fighters. Their is a really big difference you know? I realize I was being a punk just to be a punk, but this last part was sincere. All of them ( or most of them ) great Americans. But thats not what they are getting paid for, you know?
Quote from: White Pwny on Nov 10, 2008, 02:58 PM
Ok ok... WW2 ARMY FTW. Is that better?
WW2 Army was MUCh better. But so was the WW2 Marine corps. :( our generation is a bunch of pussies
Quote from: Variable on Nov 10, 2008, 04:29 PM
Actually I'm really unimpressed at the rest of the military as a whole. Not because they are bad people. I meet really awesome people from all services. I am unimpressed at them as war fighters. Their is a really big difference you know? I realize I was being a punk just to be a punk, but this last part was sincere. All of them ( or most of them ) great Americans. But thats not what they are getting paid for, you know?
I getcha...
HAI2u. I'm back...
Georgian congressman warns of Obama dictatorship [nice...more people need to be aware of this!]
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00
WASHINGTON (AP) — A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist or fascist dictatorship.
"It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he's the one who proposed this national security force," Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. "I'm just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may — may not, I hope not — but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism."
Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.
"That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."
Obama's comments about a national security force came during a speech in Colorado about building a new civil service corps. Among other things, he called for expanding the nation's foreign service and doubling the size of the Peace Corps "to renew our diplomacy."
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," Obama said in July. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Broun said he also believes Obama likely will move to ban gun ownership if he does build a national police force.
Obama has said he respects the Second Amendment right to bear arms and favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he'll at least enact curbs on ownership of assault weapons and concealed weapons. As an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama supported a ban on semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on firearms generally.
"We can't be lulled into complacency," Broun said. "You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I'm not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I'm saying is there is the potential."
Obama's transition office did not respond immediately to Broun's remarks.
I think that is a bit of a stretch. I mean, I think you and I see eye to eye as far as trusting the government goes. But I just really think that was a lame pre election attempt to scare people into voting Republican.
I am trying really hard to be optimistic about Obama. I have spent the better parts of the past few days trying to level the heads of some of my more "conservative" friends. A lot of people in the military are genuinely scared about Obama for various ( yet legitimate ) reasons. But while I am still trying to curb my own fears, I have been trying to reassure people that it really will more than likely be ok. Maybe even more than ok. Obama is not my ideal candidate. But fuck man, lets face it, neither was McCain. Men like Paul and Nader just stand for too much right now for the American people to recognize to potential. I still believe 100% that we should be 100% skeptical of any and every politician. But I'm going to give Obama a chance. I'm going to wait until he actually tries some of this rumored bull shit before I really get in a hissy about him.
On a side note though. All this talk about executive orders really has me worried. That is one of the reasons that Bush was such a horrible president. Now it seems that Obama wants to follow in his foot steps.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 11, 2008, 08:11 AM
But I'm going to give Obama a chance. I'm going to wait until he actually tries some of this rumored bull shit before I really get in a hissy about him.
thanks man, you are one of the few conservatives i've heard that aren't shitting their pants right now from "democratic fear"
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 11, 2008, 07:20 AM
"That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."
hearing the words "Hitler" and "Nazi" in a story about Obama was all I needed to stop reading that BS
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 11, 2008, 02:18 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 11, 2008, 08:11 AM
But I'm going to give Obama a chance. I'm going to wait until he actually tries some of this rumored bull shit before I really get in a hissy about him.
thanks man, you are one of the few conservatives i've heard that aren't shitting their pants right now from "democratic fear"
i was pretty scared when he was elected to be honest. Like, genuinely scared. But then I realized that I would be just as worried if McCain was elected. I am just scared because I don't know exactly how far the next president is going to go with expanding the power of the executive branch.
But I started to realize that no matter how uneducated the vote was. America voted in Obama because they believe in the America that he is supposed to represent. So it gave me a little bit of hope. That maybe the people are sick of a footloose government. Maybe the people will start to pay attention and demand the hope and change that Obama is supposed to stand for. Or maybe I was just flat wrong and his intentions are good and he will govern good. All I know is that he is now my president ( or will be in two months ) and until he starts to violate the constitution like Bush did. I will give him the respect that the position comes with.
Just please people, pay attention to this executive order bull shit. We have check and balances for a reason.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Nov 11, 2008, 07:20 AM
HAI2u. I'm back...
Georgian congressman warns of Obama dictatorship [nice...more people need to be aware of this!]
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00
WASHINGTON (AP) — A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist or fascist dictatorship.
"It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he's the one who proposed this national security force," Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. "I'm just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may — may not, I hope not — but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism."
Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.
"That's exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it's exactly what the Soviet Union did," Broun said. "When he's proposing to have a national security force that's answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he's showing me signs of being Marxist."
Obama's comments about a national security force came during a speech in Colorado about building a new civil service corps. Among other things, he called for expanding the nation's foreign service and doubling the size of the Peace Corps "to renew our diplomacy."
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," Obama said in July. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Broun said he also believes Obama likely will move to ban gun ownership if he does build a national police force.
Obama has said he respects the Second Amendment right to bear arms and favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he'll at least enact curbs on ownership of assault weapons and concealed weapons. As an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama supported a ban on semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on firearms generally.
"We can't be lulled into complacency," Broun said. "You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I'm not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I'm saying is there is the potential."
Obama's transition office did not respond immediately to Broun's remarks.
Comin from a place that still has confederate flags flyin.
sooo has poverty and hunger been cured yet?
:)
Obama isn't in office yet.
Quote from: Corleone on Nov 11, 2008, 07:36 PM
sooo has poverty and hunger been cured yet?
:)
NO! and I'm still horny too! fucking Obama! He said things would change.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 11, 2008, 08:59 PM
Quote from: Corleone on Nov 11, 2008, 07:36 PM
sooo has poverty and hunger been cured yet?
:)
NO! and I'm still horny too! fucking Obama! He said things would change.
sooo reminiscent of the South Park episode.
ha.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r313/MyOwnFur/Obamasaidthingswouldbedifferent.jpg)
WHERE'S THE CHAAAAAAA-I-NGE
In a moment of seriousness. I really am starting to worry for the man. The more I pay attention to the relief some people have because of his victory, the MORE I realize what completely unrealistic expectations people have for this man.
If he could cap spending. Then maybe even lower spending. Then even balance the budget. He would have done an amazing job for the country. But it seems like some people think that any day now they will wake up and a new edition is going to be put on their home. Right along with matching Robes and Slippers with gold encrusted Os. That a full time job is going to be 30 hours a week and the rest of the free time will be spent hugging service members whose units are returning home after being stationed or deployed abroad for the past 60 years......... I think that America, No I think that the world, needs to come back to Earth already.
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Nov 09, 2008, 03:11 PM
There may never be a logical need for war but it's in our nature and will never change.
This is the mindset that is the root of all problems.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 10, 2008, 06:54 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 08, 2008, 11:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
did he say that right before he sent troops to Vietnam?
That doesn't matter, I don't care who said it, the point still stands.
Obama is a good guy. If you deny that then you have a hateful heart. Fuck what he's apart of, nobody disagrees with politricks more than me, but at least he's apart of the better half, anything on that right side is a bit too dangerous, at least over here we can hope and pray.
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 12, 2008, 12:06 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 10, 2008, 06:54 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 08, 2008, 11:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
did he say that right before he sent troops to Vietnam?
That doesn't matter, I don't care who said it, the point still stands.
lol. I kind of have to disagree with you. I think that too often people focus on the unobtainable and ignore reality. There are all kinds of wonderful ideals out there that would just be amazing if they were plausible. But they really aren't. So if you have a man speaking with conviction of Ideals, who then had to give them up in order to start the longest war In US history. I think that speaks a great amount all on its own.
Or, maybe he just said that because he knew its what people would want to hear. In which case it makes it even more BS.
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 12, 2008, 12:41 AM
Obama is a good guy. If you deny that then you have a hateful heart. Fuck what he's apart of, nobody disagrees with politricks more than me, but at least he's apart of the better half, anything on that right side is a bit too dangerous, at least over here we can hope and pray.
see, thats a problem I have right there. I don't actually know that Obama is a good guy. I am very skeptical of a charade. Not just with him, pretty much with any politician. But the topic is about him, I just want to make it clear that I'm not singling him out, so save the hate speech.
But honestly, how do we really know he is a good guy? You can't really listen to the words of a politician. Their actions are the only true measure of who they are. To me, Obama seems to be a man who has benefited from inaction. So I really don't know much about him at all. I'm going to wait before I say he is a good man. But I'm not calling him a bad man either.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 12, 2008, 01:57 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 12, 2008, 12:06 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 10, 2008, 06:54 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 08, 2008, 11:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
did he say that right before he sent troops to Vietnam?
That doesn't matter, I don't care who said it, the point still stands.
lol. I kind of have to disagree with you. I think that too often people focus on the unobtainable and ignore reality. There are all kinds of wonderful ideals out there that would just be amazing if they were plausible. But they really aren't. So if you have a man speaking with conviction of Ideals, who then had to give them up in order to start the longest war In US history. I think that speaks a great amount all on its own.
Or, maybe he just said that because he knew its what people would want to hear. In which case it makes it even more BS.
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 12, 2008, 12:41 AM
Obama is a good guy. If you deny that then you have a hateful heart. Fuck what he's apart of, nobody disagrees with politricks more than me, but at least he's apart of the better half, anything on that right side is a bit too dangerous, at least over here we can hope and pray.
see, thats a problem I have right there. I don't actually know that Obama is a good guy. I am very skeptical of a charade. Not just with him, pretty much with any politician. But the topic is about him, I just want to make it clear that I'm not singling him out, so save the hate speech.
But honestly, how do we really know he is a good guy? You can't really listen to the words of a politician. Their actions are the only true measure of who they are. To me, Obama seems to be a man who has benefited from inaction. So I really don't know much about him at all. I'm going to wait before I say he is a good man. But I'm not calling him a bad man either.
Yes that is true, we can never really know anyone of these people, these Magastrates, to put our faith into, our votes, this is why I steer away from it and ignore it as much as possible, I'll never vote.
I'm ok with voting. I'm just not ok with unconditional faith in a politician. Some people just seem to trust this guy WAY too much. That's how they get away with bull shit like the war on terror and the patriot act.
Obama is already saying he is going to use a number of executive orders so that he can bypass congress. His reasoning is because he doesn't want to wait for congress. But that is called checks and balances. I know executive orders have been the trend since....I think FDR started it. But if he actually wanted to be this president of change, he would allow the political process of a republic to actually happen. Executive orders are tyrannical in my opinion.
Funny. I posted a video on myspace of Obama without his teleprompter and I get this message from a friend,
"don't be a jerk"
....so now I'm being a jerk for showing what Obama is really like? I'm a jerk for not giving into his marketing campaign? Seriously, this ia big issue. If you don't like Obama, you're a "fascist" [been called that on myspace, she said she would delete me from her friends because I posted an article about Obama not proving he was born in the USA], a jerk, ignorant, yadda yadda. What's it going tobe like when he makes these decisions that we, the public, won't like and agree with that Joe Biden promised? Will his new militia keep an eye on me? Fuck...it's already starting.
edit: here is the video I posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU
That is a pretty funny video. Kind of like all the Bushisms videos. But I would be a hypocrite to say this makes him less qualified to be president. It makes me mad that people ignore brilliant political minds just because they have no public speaking skills. It also makes me mad that idiots get in office just because of charisma.
god, he totally works himself in that video
Yeah, funny how none of those videos surfaced on the news. McCain's mess ups sure as shit did.
yeah, it kinda makes you appreciate fox news, even though they are even subject to the liberal bias every now and then.
Yeah. I think that people who say that FOX news is an ultra right network are a bunch of tards. Obviously Hannity and O'Reilly are conservative. But the show is called Hannity and Colmes. And I don't give a fuck what anyone says about O'Reilly, every time I watch his show, he always has someone who opposes his view on as a guest. Sometimes multiple guest who oppose him. Other than Hannity and O'Reilly, I have seen the rest of the network attack the right plenty of times. They just also happen to attack the left at the same time. See thats what MSNBC doesn't understand. You are supposed to attack both sides. Olberman should be banned from the news. Or he should at least be forced to change the classification of his show, because it is not news. It is a personal vendetta against the right. Its pathetic to be honest. The rest of the networks are not too bad. I watch a lot of CNN, they only slightly lean left. For the most part they do pretty good. But I do agree that Fox is pretty dam balanced.
yep, "fair and balanced". that's their motto.
They really are though dude. What throws everyone off is how strong of personalities Hannity and O'Reilly have. They are just natural alpha males. So people only focus on them instead of the actual news. If you watch FOX news with no bias, just pay attention to what is actually being reported. They really do a very good job of being balanced.
ok, maybe tomorrow i'll watch something on there that's not O'Reilly
lol, for sure. O'Reilly can be a bit much to take sometimes. I think he obviously tries to be " fair and balanced" but for his show being called the " no spin zone " he is REALLY talented at throwing spins on issues and making some of his guest points look less significant no matter how right his guest are. But I even have to tip my hat to O'Reilly a bit. I have seen him go after the GOP plenty. Saw him give out plenty of props to Obama too.
While we are on this subject I just want to share something I saw on the "O'Reilly Factor" tonight. It is exactly how I feel about Obama, but for some reason I was having a hard time getting this simple message across. Dennis Miller has his "Miller Time" on O'Reilly's show. I cant exactly quote him, but it went something like. " Barrack Obama is my president now. I'm not going to do what the far left to Bush, and turn my back on him. He is my president and I am going to support him. I refuse to turn my back on him. In fact, I hope he does such an amazing job, that he makes me want to vote for him in 2012......."
I just thought it was well put.
yeah i've never really been a fan of Miller, but that is pretty well said. i just hope the rest of america feels the same...that they have hope that obama can save this sinking ship.
I honestly think that most of " conservative " America was taught to respect the position of the president, even if you dont like the man. I was raised that way.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 13, 2008, 04:23 AM
lol, for sure. O'Reilly can be a bit much to take sometimes. I think he obviously tries to be " fair and balanced" but for his show being called the " no spin zone " he is REALLY talented at throwing spins on issues and making some of his guest points look less significant no matter how right his guest are. But I even have to tip my hat to O'Reilly a bit. I have seen him go after the GOP plenty. Saw him give out plenty of props to Obama too.
While we are on this subject I just want to share something I saw on the "O'Reilly Factor" tonight. It is exactly how I feel about Obama, but for some reason I was having a hard time getting this simple message across. Dennis Miller has his "Miller Time" on O'Reilly's show. I cant exactly quote him, but it went something like. " Barrack Obama is my president now. I'm not going to do what the far left to Bush, and turn my back on him. He is my president and I am going to support him. I refuse to turn my back on him. In fact, I hope he does such an amazing job, that he makes me want to vote for him in 2012......."
I just thought it was well put.
O'Reilly is a bit of a freak.
But if this kid had his own show, I'd watch it for sure!
http://www.sharinglungs.com/index.php/topic,14885.0.html
Quote from: Variable on Nov 13, 2008, 04:23 AM
lol, for sure. O'Reilly can be a bit much to take sometimes. I think he obviously tries to be " fair and balanced" but for his show being called the " no spin zone " he is REALLY talented at throwing spins on issues and making some of his guest points look less significant no matter how right his guest are. But I even have to tip my hat to O'Reilly a bit. I have seen him go after the GOP plenty. Saw him give out plenty of props to Obama too.
While we are on this subject I just want to share something I saw on the "O'Reilly Factor" tonight. It is exactly how I feel about Obama, but for some reason I was having a hard time getting this simple message across. Dennis Miller has his "Miller Time" on O'Reilly's show. I cant exactly quote him, but it went something like. " Barrack Obama is my president now. I'm not going to do what the far left to Bush, and turn my back on him. He is my president and I am going to support him. I refuse to turn my back on him. In fact, I hope he does such an amazing job, that he makes me want to vote for him in 2012......."
I just thought it was well put.
Agreed.
Quote from: Shaye on Nov 13, 2008, 06:16 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 13, 2008, 04:23 AM
lol, for sure. O'Reilly can be a bit much to take sometimes. I think he obviously tries to be " fair and balanced" but for his show being called the " no spin zone " he is REALLY talented at throwing spins on issues and making some of his guest points look less significant no matter how right his guest are. But I even have to tip my hat to O'Reilly a bit. I have seen him go after the GOP plenty. Saw him give out plenty of props to Obama too.
While we are on this subject I just want to share something I saw on the "O'Reilly Factor" tonight. It is exactly how I feel about Obama, but for some reason I was having a hard time getting this simple message across. Dennis Miller has his "Miller Time" on O'Reilly's show. I cant exactly quote him, but it went something like. " Barrack Obama is my president now. I'm not going to do what the far left to Bush, and turn my back on him. He is my president and I am going to support him. I refuse to turn my back on him. In fact, I hope he does such an amazing job, that he makes me want to vote for him in 2012......."
I just thought it was well put.
O'Reilly is a bit of a freak.
But if this kid had his own show, I'd watch it for sure!
http://www.sharinglungs.com/index.php/topic,14885.0.html
I honestly don't think he is as bad as some of you make him out to be. I think people just really hate an intelligent conservative. The main thing that I find annoying about him is how arrogant he is. He will never ever admit that he is wrong. And when he is wrong, he just starts to yell. Fuck, even sometimes when he is right he yells. It really takes away from the legitimacy of his points. He is also a bit to much of a "Christian conservative" for my taste. But still, I think a lot of the time he actually does a really good job. Plus, if it was not for him, I don't think we would have my favorite pundit.....Steven Colbert ;)
Still though. I will take O'Reilly over Olberman any day. I honesty don't think Olberman should be able to classify his show as "news". Because its not. They should make him give some kind of disclaimer or something. Call it a talk show or something. Because its not a news program. It's actually very disgusting what he does.
I cant believe that none of you are talking about Hilary being the likely pick for secretary of state. Kelly, I waited all day for you to be able to be the one to break this news. But it seems you have gone to bed. So ill go ahead and be the one to do it. This is a huge honor for her. That being said, I think it is a terrible idea. ( hold on Kelly, just hear me out before you hit me )
This has nothing to do with Hilary being Hilary. If anyone actually cared enough I know that you could go back a few months and look up me talking about Obama and his lack of experience. I said that the only way I saw him being successful is if he had a really strong secretary of state. I know that I mentioned Secretary of State over any of the other cabinet members because in my opinion, this is more important than all of the others. Including VP(thats why I didn't really give two shits about Biden or Palin). Hints why Powell had to leave the Bush administration. It is too powerful of a position for such a smart person to have when the president is.....Bush. Thats why Rice was the perfect " YES SIR!" for the job.....anyways back on topic
I don't agree with Hilary Clinton. But I do respect her. I think she deserved the candidacy more than Obama. However I didn't think either of them were ready for that job to begin with. And I don't think she is ready for this. The secretary of state is a huge job. The first secretary of state was Thomas Jefferson for crying out loud. Think about it. This person pretty much carries the US on their shoulders to keep us afloat in the world while the president fucks up taxes and goes on presidential retreats. You need a very seasoned, very well traveled, very well know ( internationally ) , very well respected ( internationally ) , and very charismatic as well as intelligent person for this job. Hilary might be all of these things but seasoned and respected( abroad ). I just think it is a bad idea.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 15, 2008, 07:05 AM
I cant believe that none of you are talking about Hilary being the likely pick for secretary of state. Kelly, I waited all day for you to be able to be the one to break this news. But it seems you have gone to bed. So ill go ahead and be the one to do it. This is a huge honor for her. That being said, I think it is a terrible idea. ( hold on Kelly, just hear me out before you hit me )
This has nothing to do with Hilary being Hilary. If anyone actually cared enough I know that you could go back a few months and look up me talking about Obama and his lack of experience. I said that the only way I saw him being successful is if he had a really strong secretary of state. I know that I mentioned Secretary of State over any of the other cabinet members because in my opinion, this is more important than all of the others. Including VP(thats why I didn't really give two shits about Biden or Palin). Hints why Powell had to leave the Bush administration. It is too powerful of a position for such a smart person to have when the president is.....Bush. Thats why Rice was the perfect " YES SIR!" for the job.....anyways back on topic
I don't agree with Hilary Clinton. But I do respect her. I think she deserved the candidacy more than Obama. However I didn't think either of them were ready for that job to begin with. And I don't think she is ready for this. The secretary of state is a huge job. The first secretary of state was Thomas Jefferson for crying out loud. Think about it. This person pretty much carries the US on their shoulders to keep us afloat in the world while the president fucks up taxes and goes on presidential retreats. You need a very seasoned, very well traveled, very well know ( internationally ) , very well respected ( internationally ) , and very charismatic as well as intelligent person for this job. Hilary might be all of these things but seasoned and respected( abroad ). I just think it is a bad idea.
Oh Variable.. You're the brainwashed people that Faux News likes to report to.
i think she can be fine. i just don't care for the fact that all the top democrats are leaving the house and senate.
even though he's a republican, i think someone like Dick Lugar from indiana would be even better for the job though.
Quote from: sharinglungs on Nov 15, 2008, 07:49 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 15, 2008, 07:05 AM
I cant believe that none of you are talking about Hilary being the likely pick for secretary of state. Kelly, I waited all day for you to be able to be the one to break this news. But it seems you have gone to bed. So ill go ahead and be the one to do it. This is a huge honor for her. That being said, I think it is a terrible idea. ( hold on Kelly, just hear me out before you hit me )
This has nothing to do with Hilary being Hilary. If anyone actually cared enough I know that you could go back a few months and look up me talking about Obama and his lack of experience. I said that the only way I saw him being successful is if he had a really strong secretary of state. I know that I mentioned Secretary of State over any of the other cabinet members because in my opinion, this is more important than all of the others. Including VP(thats why I didn't really give two shits about Biden or Palin). Hints why Powell had to leave the Bush administration. It is too powerful of a position for such a smart person to have when the president is.....Bush. Thats why Rice was the perfect " YES SIR!" for the job.....anyways back on topic
I don't agree with Hilary Clinton. But I do respect her. I think she deserved the candidacy more than Obama. However I didn't think either of them were ready for that job to begin with. And I don't think she is ready for this. The secretary of state is a huge job. The first secretary of state was Thomas Jefferson for crying out loud. Think about it. This person pretty much carries the US on their shoulders to keep us afloat in the world while the president fucks up taxes and goes on presidential retreats. You need a very seasoned, very well traveled, very well know ( internationally ) , very well respected ( internationally ) , and very charismatic as well as intelligent person for this job. Hilary might be all of these things but seasoned and respected( abroad ). I just think it is a bad idea.
Oh Variable.. You're the brainwashed people that Faux News likes to report to.
Shut the fuck up. ( that is the most intelligent response you deserve )
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 15, 2008, 07:55 AM
i think she can be fine. i just don't care for the fact that all the top democrats are leaving the house and senate.
even though he's a republican, i think someone like Dick Lugar from indiana would be even better for the job though.
This is a big job my man. Not something to give away with a popularity contest. If we are truly trying to change things ( which this guy is all about ) Hillary is not the woman for the job. I'm sorry, this is just too important of a job. Charisma and clout wont earn her shit. You have to be the real deal. Like I said, Thomas Jefferson......think about it.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 12, 2008, 01:57 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 12, 2008, 12:06 AM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 10, 2008, 06:54 AM
Quote from: Jambi on Nov 08, 2008, 11:10 PM
Quote from: Variable on Nov 08, 2008, 04:25 AM
It's hard to understand the mind set of a real warrior of you have never walked those shoes. It takes something else to be the guy that runs towards the gun fire ( marines ) rather than the guy that runs away ( The Army )
"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
-- John F. Kennedy
did he say that right before he sent troops to Vietnam?
That doesn't matter, I don't care who said it, the point still stands.
lol. I kind of have to disagree with you. I think that too often people focus on the unobtainable and ignore reality. There are all kinds of wonderful ideals out there that would just be amazing if they were plausible. But they really aren't. So if you have a man speaking with conviction of Ideals, who then had to give them up in order to start the longest war In US history. I think that speaks a great amount all on its own.
Or, maybe he just said that because he knew its what people would want to hear. In which case it makes it even more BS.
Well maybe that is the case, but the words mean a lot in principle, hence my point. I know hard for you to bite the bullet on this, but his 'ideal' should be respected. Of course I know the world will never be filled with the ideals that we envisage, but it's a better starting point than shitty foreign polices of most of the developed world.
Oh no no. Don't get me wrong. I am all for the ideal. My only point is that I don't think he was exactly on board with his own words. You have a may saying that......then the bay of pigs? Come on now. Thats like Bush speaking out against nation building in 1999. Looks a lot different today.
Although I do have a hard time imagining how a conscious objector could be seen with the same esteem of a warrior. I think one of the reasons that warriors are respected is because of the task that they perform, that most would not. While the cause of a conscious objector may be noble. It could also very easily be associated with the word coward. No matter how right or wrong that association might be. Then again, people dont really respect warriors the same today either. Because the wars they are fighting are not noble either. So who knows.
But I just saw what I said that sparked all of this. I was simply talking about the difference between the army ( guys who run away ) and marine corps ( guys who run towards ). The guys in the Army will still claim to be warriors. But some of us know the real difference. That was my point.
Last night on 60 mins, Obama hinting at their false-flag and what exactly is a "national security team"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gQxGFJoq0E
I do not like this guy.
Probably just a think tank of people that will turn over with key officials in the Bush administration in so that the countries defense agencies ( FBI, CIA, DOD, Department of Homeland security , NSA, ect ect ) can continue to run smoothly without any resistance from the noobs above.
That being said. My beef at the moment is not with Obama. He hasn't fucked up yet. I think he is full of shit. But I'm going to let him prove it to me that he is not. If he does not, well that's another story. MY BEEF is with the people of America. They have waaaaayyyy to much trust and faith in this guy. You have got to be skeptical of politicians at all times. You have to question their every move. No matter how innocent it is, you have to question it. This is one of the ways we keep our politicians honest, we keep a close eye. If they do us right, we praise them. If they fuck up, you don't just turn your shoulder and act like it never happened. You scrutinize them. You have to stay skeptical. This blind faith in Obama by the American people is potentially the biggest threat to America. You can love the man, and praise him when it is due. But you never trust a politician to run free without a watchful eye, ever.
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people."
John Adams
N.W.O. Remix....make your own conclusions
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WAKE UP! The New World Order Matrix has you! [clips with Obama and Biden]
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Ha, jokes on Kerry. I slacked off in school and I didn't end up in Iraq, I ended up in Afghanistan.
I liked the part where everyone is dancing and partying while all this shit is going down too. It's true. The American people don't actually care about what's going on over there. They will speak out as long as green day makes it hip. But they don't actually care.
and I just wanted to point out that for the record. That part where those soldiers were beating the prisoner. They were not US soldiers. I think they were Australian. I see Australians on base wearing uniforms that look like that. But it was pretty far away, I guess they could have been British.
The last video.....well......if these people want to be taken seriously. They need to make serious videos. I understand the message they are trying to get across. But the Matrix and Star Wars? I think we could do without that.
But I did like the part about Obama. Mainly because people look at me like I'm an idiot and call me crazy when I say he quoted Bush on the campaign trail from when Bush was running for president. I don't know why people don't just look it up for themselves, its right there. I guess "dancing with the stars" was more important to them than who they should have voted for.
Yeah the 2nd video is a little out there, but I like this style. It catches your attention.
Thanks for watching these.
Obama voters and Media Malpractice
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until he starts making or not making the "change"..leave Berry alone...this whole campaign has worn the whole country down..lets havea break
all this time people have been talking and I and I people have been starving. People on the Reservations and the ghettos and africans both white and black and everything in between and people just talking talking talking.
Bill Gates wallet could change the whole wide world, but no that won't ever happen.
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
all this time people have been talking and I and I people have been starving. People on the Reservations and the ghettos and africans both white and black and everything in between and people just talking talking talking.
Bill Gates wallet could change the whole wide world, but no that won't ever happen.
Bill Gates' wallet couldnt even save the United States right now.
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
all this time people have been talking and I and I people have been starving. People on the Reservations and the ghettos and africans both white and black and everything in between and people just talking talking talking.
Bill Gates wallet could change the whole wide world, but no that won't ever happen.
Money doesn't change shit Ross. I would think you of all people here would understand this. They have proven time and time again that throwing money at poverty only makes it worse. For all of you who support government programs like giving foreign aid to countries or giving money to citizens in poverty. You need to do the real research. It has been proven that you are permanently keeping them in a cycle of poverty. Poverty has nothing to do with how much money you have. It is a mind set of total consumption upon gaining something. Example? Look at how many poor people have bling blingin ass cars and bumpin stereos that are worth more than their dam house. Think about it. You can give a man a fish, or teach a man to fish.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 21, 2008, 06:45 AM
Quote from: Jedidiah Solomon on Nov 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
all this time people have been talking and I and I people have been starving. People on the Reservations and the ghettos and africans both white and black and everything in between and people just talking talking talking.
Bill Gates wallet could change the whole wide world, but no that won't ever happen.
Money doesn't change shit Ross. I would think you of all people here would understand this. They have proven time and time again that throwing money at poverty only makes it worse. For all of you who support government programs like giving foreign aid to countries or giving money to citizens in poverty. You need to do the real research. It has been proven that you are permanently keeping them in a cycle of poverty. Poverty has nothing to do with how much money you have. It is a mind set of total consumption upon gaining something. Example? Look at how many poor people have bling blingin ass cars and bumpin stereos that are worth more than their dam house. Think about it. You can give a man a fish, or teach a man to fish.
Dont go to the modern gangster rap theme, we've all heard it.
And I don't support any organization, especially one where I can't see where the money goes, I'm saying if I had all his BILLIONS of dollars, oh my oh my what I would and could do with it, I could go to the place I was born build a proper health care place, re build houses, build more houses, create jobs, and do these simple necessitys to another place that needs and than another and another, set the example and maybe someone else would catch on, next thing you know some people actually wake up happy enough to have at the very least hope again, less crime, more praising. oh yes, that is real.
IF EVERYONE IN HOLLYWOOD, PROFRESSIONAL SPORTS, WALLSTREET, OR ANYBODY THATS A MULTI MILLIONARE GAVE UP 1 MILLION DOLLARS ALL AT ONCE AND WE COLLECTED IT WE COULD CHANGE THE WORLD, PERIOD....AND THAT'S CHUMP CHANGE TO THEM.
that's not going to happen!
there's always not enough money.
Quote from: lostpilot on Nov 22, 2008, 12:54 PM
that's not going to happen!
there's always not enough money.
Why are you so hopeless?
I have no clue how much money Gill Bates has, I've never cared, I just used him as an example cause like 10 years ago I heard he was the richest man.
Even 1 billion dollars is enough to make huge changes, at least where I'm from, and from that you can make profit to keep money coming to give more. That's the true idea.
And yeah it most likely won't happen. Because I've yet to seen one multi, millionare, billionare, trillionare with a true heart willing to live in a normal house with one car while all their riches are given to the poor, If I could do anything in life, it would be this, to set the example.
I wouldn't. If I had a billion dollars, fuck that. I'd be buying a huge mansion, about 10 cars, a stripper wife, an island, then another huge mansion in like, fuckin' Greece or something.
but thats never gonna happen...
See Ross you are half right. And this has nothing to do with rap. This is just called the truth. Poverty can't be solved with money. I mean money plays a part in it. But you cant just throw it at the poor and expect them to not go blow it on some diamond earrings and super bumpin stereo system instead of buying bonds and ensuring their kids go to college. You have to teach them how to save.
Here is where you are right. You say that if you had all of this money, you would go back into your community and make a difference. YOU, not the government. Because you know your community and its needs. You have the money, and you care, so you are going to do them right. Its called philanthropy. The title of Philanthropist used to be one of the highest distinctions in society. It is what rich people strived to become. You were so rich that you could afford to make a difference. That was before the government started taxing the fuck out of our society in order to provide way inferior support than was being offered though private charity and philanthropist. Thank you democrats for all the social programs.
Here is where you are wrong. You are supposed to get off your dam ass and make the money yourself. Not ask for it. This is why communities are supposed to care about their education and their children. Making sure their children grow up and become successful. If your raise a crop of kids who are more educated and dynamic than the rest of the country, naturally you will probably have a nicer retirement home than most. Your grand kids will probably have a much better life too. But you can't expect the government to provide this kind of support. They have consistently fucked up trying to help people. Hints Ronald Reagan's quote about the nine most terrifying words in the English language "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Some bureaucrat sitting in an ivory tower in DC isn't going to know how to help your community. Wake up people, quit asking the government to help you when they can't. Just tell them to leave you alone, as in stop taxing you, taking away liberties, and spying on you. And when I say stop taxing, I dont mean tax the job makers. I mean stop taxing everyone, all together, crazy right? Then after you get them to back the fuck off, take care of yourselves. America operated like this very successfully for a very long time. We have only gone downhill since the public started turning to the government to solve all of its problems. Get a fucking clue.
But more on topic. Bill Richardson and Hillary Clinton? Seriously Obama? Could you make any worse picks? Obama has rode the success of his lack of action for too long now. Now that he finally has to stand up and make decisions, his lack of knowledge and experience are really starting to show.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Nov 23, 2008, 03:40 AM
I wouldn't. If I had a billion dollars, fuck that. I'd be buying a huge mansion, about 10 cars, a stripper wife, an island, then another huge mansion in like, fuckin' Greece or something.
but thats never gonna happen...
Most people would and that's why things remain the same. "everybody's livin and nobodys givin and nobody gives a damn."
Quote from: Variable on Nov 23, 2008, 06:54 AM
See Ross you are half right. And this has nothing to do with rap. This is just called the truth. Poverty can't be solved with money. I mean money plays a part in it. But you cant just throw it at the poor and expect them to not go blow it on some diamond earrings and super bumpin stereo system instead of buying bonds and ensuring their kids go to college. You have to teach them how to save.
Here is where you are right. You say that if you had all of this money, you would go back into your community and make a difference. YOU, not the government. Because you know your community and its needs. You have the money, and you care, so you are going to do them right. Its called philanthropy. The title of Philanthropist used to be one of the highest distinctions in society. It is what rich people strived to become. You were so rich that you could afford to make a difference. That was before the government started taxing the fuck out of our society in order to provide way inferior support than was being offered though private charity and philanthropist. Thank you democrats for all the social programs.
Here is where you are wrong. You are supposed to get off your dam ass and make the money yourself. Not ask for it. This is why communities are supposed to care about their education and their children. Making sure their children grow up and become successful. If your raise a crop of kids who are more educated and dynamic than the rest of the country, naturally you will probably have a nicer retirement home than most. Your grand kids will probably have a much better life too. But you can't expect the government to provide this kind of support. They have consistently fucked up trying to help people. Hints Ronald Reagan's quote about the nine most terrifying words in the English language "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Some bureaucrat sitting in an ivory tower in DC isn't going to know how to help your community. Wake up people, quit asking the government to help you when they can't. Just tell them to leave you alone, as in stop taxing you, taking away liberties, and spying on you. And when I say stop taxing, I dont mean tax the job makers. I mean stop taxing everyone, all together, crazy right? Then after you get them to back the fuck off, take care of yourselves. America operated like this very successfully for a very long time. We have only gone downhill since the public started turning to the government to solve all of its problems. Get a fucking clue.
The thing about me is I wouldn't sell my own soul for money. Humbleness is always key.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 15, 2008, 09:08 PM
people dont really respect warriors the same today either. Because the wars they are fighting are not noble either. So who knows.
I totally get your point, and that quote there is spot on, but one could argue that no war is noble, but I'll leave that to someone else.
People in the american army and navy and air force aren't warriors, you can't SIGN UP for a war and be called a warrior, since the beginning of time warriors are those who protect their families and land when the enemies invade, the iraqies are the warriors today, most people from the past on any turf was a warrior, americans aren't today, there just signing up for blind reasons and also for the great beneifts and money, alls ya'll do is goof off these days anyway and get on the fucking internet, yeah real fucking warrior, nobody invaded america, nobody's in danger over here even as much as we've fucked up in every way.
Nice of you to leave the Marine Corps out seeing as how I said that is the only service with true warriors today. Guess we agree.
But you are an idiot Ross. The Spartains were warriors. The Mesopotamians, The Greeks, The Romans, The Vikings ect ect. Were all warriors who did way more than just defend their home land. Even your claimed Native blood had warriors that went out to conquer other people. Even the Israelites had warriors who had to conquer the promised land. So shut your ignorant ass up, because you catch yourself up in contraindications every time you say anything.
And you don't know a dam thing about what we, or I, do and have done. But I know for a fact that I have done a shit ton more than you. I am a documented combat veteran. As in I did more than sit on a FOB and get online. Don't even try to tell me about war. You're just a little boy who likes to cry and make himself out to be the victim. But you haven't done shit in your life but go to rehab and run to religion when you were too weak to handle just living. You're pathetic.
Quote from: Variable on Nov 24, 2008, 05:54 AM
Nice of you to leave the Marine Corps out seeing as how I said that is the only service with true warriors today. Guess we agree.
But you are an idiot Ross. The Spartains were warriors. The Mesopotamians, The Greeks, The Romans, The Vikings ect ect. Were all warriors who did way more than just defend their home land. Even your claimed Native blood had warriors that went out to conquer other people. Even the Israelites had warriors who had to conquer the promised land. So shut your ignorant ass up, because you catch yourself up in contraindications every time you say anything.
And you don't know a dam thing about what we, or I, do and have done. But I know for a fact that I have done a shit ton more than you. I am a documented combat veteran. As in I did more than sit on a FOB and get online. Don't even try to tell me about war. You're just a little boy who likes to cry and make himself out to be the victim. But you haven't done shit in your life but go to rehab and run to religion when you were too weak to handle just living. You're pathetic.
First off, you know NOT what you READ.
I said all people except anybody in this so called nation of modern day american descent is not a true warrior including the marines, especially those nuts, everybody in my family on both sides fought in every war since the beginning of this country and still do and while you finger is up your butthole my brother is putting people back together in Mosul right now and my sister is probably gonna get shipped out soon too, and I know exactly the real situation, and it's funny 'cause ya'll don't really do shit, I gotta give props to my brother 'cause he has an insane tough job, but that's all it is is a job I wouldn't go to say he's a warrior nor any other american, this new technological atrosity known as "war today" ain't war especially when you sign up for it, nobody throughout history fuckin sighned up for shit cause no one wanted it it was all about necessity about survival so fuck you man, you ain't shit, why the fuck are you on the internet if your such a warrior, why do you even own a computer go ahead and call yourself one if it makes you feel like someone, go kill someone too, how good does it make you feel?
1. no where in there did you say anything about the marines. You tried to list all the armed services, but you proved yourself too stupid to even do that.
2. I seriously doubt that your family has been in every war in American history. I'm almost positive that we have had at least 10 wars that your ignorant ass doesn't even know about. Making such a claim is stupid anyways. Because 1, you cant prove it. And 2, you're family might be made of warriors, but you are a pussy that didn't step up. So you have no room to talk.
3. If someone that you know who has been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan , and told you about how most of the forces don't do shit. They were right. Most of the deployed forces just sit their ass on a FOB or COP and don't ever leave. ESPECIALLY the Army. So I'm not surprised that you think thats all they do. But, some of us did go out and do real work. Fight real fights. Marines like to Patrol anyways. That was my whole point. It sucks that you are too stupid to understand it. But the whole point was that most of the people who call themselves "warriors" just sit on the base. Or if they ever do have to leave, they are scarred shitless and just run away when people shoot at them. That was my point, that America does not have nearly as many warriors as it claims.
4. But Ross, you have no idea what I did. Just because your brother is a Fobbit doesn't mean that I had the same experience as him. If he is working in a hospital or surgical unit from a FOB. Great, good for him. Its an important job. But he was not exposed to those of us who were very forward deployed. He doesn't know what life is like for us. I was the guy out in the middle of no where who called for a helicopter to bring your brother bodies. Not the guy sitting on a base just waiting. I know a pretty good handful of guys who did some real shit. Its not even worth talking about, because neither you or anyone else who wasn't there will understand exactly how it was. But some Americans are doing some real shit. Going , voluntarily, into some really nasty places. They deserve more than some pathetic rehab drop out like you criticizing them. You haven't done anything, you dont warrant to say they aren't warriors.
http://www.pocketobama.com/
(http://www.pocketobama.com/images/lbl_itisanofficial.gif)
Very similar to Mao's Red Book....this is getting out of hand.
Soon I'll have people repeating his words like its gospel.
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
It's all about the same. Except the economy is getting worse and worse. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. But its still true. The only real change is that now the liberal media has no idea what to do, because they cant just bash the president all the time. And FOX news is having a field day calling him out on shit. It kind of flip flopped.
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSvBCBnulLs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSvBCBnulLs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Sick.
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wqcPA1ysSbw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wqcPA1ysSbw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
"I pledge...to be a servant to our President"
The end of the video is cReEpY.
::)
What??..did you pledge to roll your eyes whenever someone doesn't like your messiah?
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
well said.
Not if we take him out of his presidency.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
So now it's bitching for informing people of the things that are happening in this country? Letting people know that he is just another fucking puppet...Fuck being a sheep...I will not accept him as my president.
I like your reasoning, Jerry, but accept it - Obama's there for long, cause everyone's obsessed with him. He's like the new jesus or something
*sigh*
God people. If anyone thinks Obama is a Messiah, they are delusional. I like him, and I HOPE that he can change shit. Of course it won't happen overnight. I think it's a great step in the right direction. It's outside the box, and I am proud of the people for voting that way. We would have been FUCKT if it was McCain and Palin. Cmon now. You don't have to be a SHEEP.. but whether you like it or NOT, Jerry... he IS the president of the United States. Hey, since yer so offended by him... what are you planning to do with the stimulus he plans to give to you? If you don't want it, you can send it my way! =o)
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Jan 28, 2009, 06:32 AM
Not if we take him out of his presidency.
Not gonna happen...I'm sure you're a smart guy Jerry,you know that's not gonna happen.
QuoteQuote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
So now it's bitching for informing people of the things that are happening in this country? Letting people know that he is just another fucking puppet...Fuck being a sheep...I will not accept him as my president.
Shit like this has been around for every president Jerry,Obama's not the first to have a lot of die hard supporters. And call them what you want,but I wouldn't consider people who are genuinely happy about POSSIBLE change,sheep. And you don't have to accept the fact he's your President....but he is.
OH NO CHANGE FOR THE GOOD?!? I don't think I can handle it!
go listen to Rush Limbaugh's president-hating, hoping-for-failure ass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYjWbAU2eU
'change' is so vague, but then the slogan won him the election, that and having a cool 'film like' voice.....almost feels like a self-help guru rather than a hard nosed politician that's gonna get stuff done. Still, we'll see.
I was watching him walk on the news last night,he's got a nice stride. lol
He's got that pimp stride.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Jan 28, 2009, 05:00 AM
What??..did you pledge to roll your eyes whenever someone doesn't like your messiah?
You're almost as annoying as Ross.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:43 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Jan 28, 2009, 06:32 AM
Not if we take him out of his presidency.
Not gonna happen...I'm sure you're a smart guy Jerry,you know that's not gonna happen.
QuoteQuote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
So now it's bitching for informing people of the things that are happening in this country? Letting people know that he is just another fucking puppet...Fuck being a sheep...I will not accept him as my president.
Shit like this has been around for every president Jerry,Obama's not the first to have a lot of die hard supporters. And call them what you want,but I wouldn't consider people who are genuinely happy about POSSIBLE change,sheep. And you don't have to accept the fact he's your President....but he is.
Exactly.
Mr. Obama and his continuation of Bush's policies, so he's ordered the Guantanamo detention facility to be closed within 12 months but yet the goat herders in Guantanamo won't be returned to their families, they are getting sent to special gulags that have already been set up in places like Eastern Europe, Egypt and Jordan etc... Hardly sounds like civil rights to me... But another tit-bit of what is to come from Obama aside from more abortions in China and Africa and the continued use of Gulags, is that he's now fired missles in Pakistan. His re-deployment of troops from Iraq into Afgahnistan was a sign of his intent towards the nuclear armed Pakistan, and now he has concreted this policy by firing missles and kiling at least 20 Pakistani's over the weekend... check out the Washington Post's article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012304189.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
Obama will not change anything for the good... He is only their to neutralise the left and to continue the globalists agenda and if you live or have family in Pakistan then I would re-locate or build a bunker.
Oh my, so much to respond to. Good thing I have great finger genetics for typing.
Alright. First off, those videos jerry. The fucking kids in that first video did a good job memorizing bullets from Obamas web site about his health care plan. But they have no fucking clue what it actually is, or the impact it would have on America (a very negative one in my educated opinion). But you can't say that Americans who once might have viewed themselves as African Americans, thus a lesser citizen of America, Now believing that they are truly on the same playing field and can do whatever they dream, is a bad thing. Ill give the video that much
The 2nd? Well all those celbs pledged a lot of shit that should have been happening way before Obama. In fact, a lot of it used to happen all the time 50 fucking years ago. That is why so many conservatives are conservative. They liked the good clean society of America, and wanted to keep it like that. Its fucking pathetic if it took Obama to make those bone heads realize all that. And I am pretty much positive that none of them actually did any of it.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Jan 28, 2009, 05:07 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
well said.
Like the two of you didn't bitch and moan the entire time Bush was in office. Don't be haters just because Jerry is doing it to your golden boy. Jerry is inspired for a cause. He is trying to spread information to people, that they might not otherwise ever see. That is not a bad thing. If you guys watched his videos, and read his articles, you probably would learn a lot and understand why he is being so critical. Either way, its never a bad thing to be critical of a person in office. Its the closest thing we can do to keeping them honest.
Quote from: White Pwny on Jan 28, 2009, 03:02 PM
*sigh*
God people. If anyone thinks Obama is a Messiah, they are delusional. I like him, and I HOPE that he can change shit. Of course it won't happen overnight. I think it's a great step in the right direction. It's outside the box, and I am proud of the people for voting that way. We would have been FUCKT if it was McCain and Palin. Cmon now. You don't have to be a SHEEP.. but whether you like it or NOT, Jerry... he IS the president of the United States. Hey, since yer so offended by him... what are you planning to do with the stimulus he plans to give to you? If you don't want it, you can send it my way! =o)
What exactly is outside the box? Because the democrats have been selling this BS for years. It just so happens they got a better salesman this year. And I seriously doubt that any of you rejected Bush's stimulus package. Which by the way didn't work, and Obama is doing all over again. Hmmmmm. If Obama actually wanted you to have money, he would cut your fucking income tax tomorrow. So by next pay day, you would already have a couple more hundred bucks, and it would be continuous. But oh, then he couldn't pay the the expansion of government anymore. AKA less control for you over your life, more control for him over your life. Good luck with that one kids. I highly suggest that you ALL read John Locke's
the second treatise of government and a letter concerning toleration before you ever vote on anything that has to do with the government again. And for me to be proud of the way this country voted. They would have had to vote against the current and vote in any number of the fabulous 3rd party candidates who actually understand a thing or two about how to govern a country, instead of voting with the hype.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:43 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Jan 28, 2009, 06:32 AM
Not if we take him out of his presidency.
Not gonna happen...I'm sure you're a smart guy Jerry,you know that's not gonna happen.
QuoteQuote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
So now it's bitching for informing people of the things that are happening in this country? Letting people know that he is just another fucking puppet...Fuck being a sheep...I will not accept him as my president.
Shit like this has been around for every president Jerry,Obama's not the first to have a lot of die hard supporters. And call them what you want,but I wouldn't consider people who are genuinely happy about POSSIBLE change,sheep. And you don't have to accept the fact he's your President....but he is.
you're missing his point ( probably because you don't ever watch his videos or read his articles. I could be wrong though ) His point isn't that a lot of people like him and are excited. Its that people, A LOT of people, are fanatics about him. They will dangerously follow him into anything without question. No matter what he says, its gold to them. That is extremely dangerous. Many , many great men of past America history have warned us about not being watchful and critical of our politicians. Most of them very accomplished politicians themselves. People might want to get over the fucking presidential honey moon, and get back to giving a fuck about their country again.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Jan 28, 2009, 05:57 PM
OH NO CHANGE FOR THE GOOD?!? I don't think I can handle it!
go listen to Rush Limbaugh's president-hating, hoping-for-failure ass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYjWbAU2eU
This one is easy. What change? And for what good? ( I'm not actually expecting a reply, because I know you cant intelligently give one )
Quote from: Starz on Jan 28, 2009, 10:09 PM
Mr. Obama and his continuation of Bush's policies, so he's ordered the Guantanamo detention facility to be closed within 12 months but yet the goat herders in Guantanamo won't be returned to their families, they are getting sent to special gulags that have already been set up in places like Eastern Europe, Egypt and Jordan etc... Hardly sounds like civil rights to me... But another tit-bit of what is to come from Obama aside from more abortions in China and Africa and the continued use of Gulags, is that he's now fired missles in Pakistan. His re-deployment of troops from Iraq into Afgahnistan was a sign of his intent towards the nuclear armed Pakistan, and now he has concreted this policy by firing missles and kiling at least 20 Pakistani's over the weekend... check out the Washington Post's article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012304189.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
Obama will not change anything for the good... He is only their to neutralise the left and to continue the globalists agenda and if you live or have family in Pakistan then I would re-locate or build a bunker.
very good points. But for some reason people always ignore those very good points about Obama. I have been telling the guys at work not to plan on getting out of the military any time soon. Because were all going to Afghanistan for a troop build up ( I'm already slated to be there in less than a year ) and once the build up is big enough, rolling across the border into Pakistan bitches. The words stop and loss are going to get thrown around like its fucking cool. I have been saying it since I first heard Obamas Foreign relations policies. lol, it makes me laugh that America thinks they voted in favor of the troops. He is already on planning on cutting our funding like crazy, no more pay raises, is keeping something like 40,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely ( aka FOREVER ) , sending more troops to Afghanistan ( meaning less time home on the deployment rotations ) , then hes going to start a whole new war in a place that............. If yall thought Iraq was bad, don't expect too many to come home from an initial push into the tribal areas of Pakistan. Thats the truth. lol, thanks America for supporting the troops.
Too much in this thread to read...
If someone rapes a child, or anyone for that matter I think they should be executed. Period. But then again I'm for assisted suicide, I am also stubborn; why didn't our culture didn't adapt the true, raw, honor of suicide like Ronin or the Samurai. Suicide should be embraced, rather than murder IMO. Holy shit that was the most emo thing I've ever said.
You should read some of it man as a lot of good points are being made.
@Variable: If you're being slated to be in Afghanistan in the next year or so, does that mean if troops are sent into Pakistan, you could possibly be one of them?
The whole $335 million going to STD shit is absurd!
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Quote from: Variable on Jan 29, 2009, 02:14 AM
Oh my, so much to respond to. Good thing I have great finger genetics for typing.
Alright. First off, those videos jerry. The fucking kids in that first video did a good job memorizing bullets from Obamas web site about his health care plan. But they have no fucking clue what it actually is, or the impact it would have on America (a very negative one in my educated opinion). But you can't say that Americans who once might have viewed themselves as African Americans, thus a lesser citizen of America, Now believing that they are truly on the same playing field and can do whatever they dream, is a bad thing. Ill give the video that much
The 2nd? Well all those celbs pledged a lot of shit that should have been happening way before Obama. In fact, a lot of it used to happen all the time 50 fucking years ago. That is why so many conservatives are conservative. They liked the good clean society of America, and wanted to keep it like that. Its fucking pathetic if it took Obama to make those bone heads realize all that. And I am pretty much positive that none of them actually did any of it.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Jan 28, 2009, 05:07 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
well said.
Like the two of you didn't bitch and moan the entire time Bush was in office. Don't be haters just because Jerry is doing it to your golden boy. Jerry is inspired for a cause. He is trying to spread information to people, that they might not otherwise ever see. That is not a bad thing. If you guys watched his videos, and read his articles, you probably would learn a lot and understand why he is being so critical. Either way, its never a bad thing to be critical of a person in office. Its the closest thing we can do to keeping them honest.Quote from: White Pwny on Jan 28, 2009, 03:02 PM
*sigh*
God people. If anyone thinks Obama is a Messiah, they are delusional. I like him, and I HOPE that he can change shit. Of course it won't happen overnight. I think it's a great step in the right direction. It's outside the box, and I am proud of the people for voting that way. We would have been FUCKT if it was McCain and Palin. Cmon now. You don't have to be a SHEEP.. but whether you like it or NOT, Jerry... he IS the president of the United States. Hey, since yer so offended by him... what are you planning to do with the stimulus he plans to give to you? If you don't want it, you can send it my way! =o)
What exactly is outside the box? Because the democrats have been selling this BS for years. It just so happens they got a better salesman this year. And I seriously doubt that any of you rejected Bush's stimulus package. Which by the way didn't work, and Obama is doing all over again. Hmmmmm. If Obama actually wanted you to have money, he would cut your fucking income tax tomorrow. So by next pay day, you would already have a couple more hundred bucks, and it would be continuous. But oh, then he couldn't pay the the expansion of government anymore. AKA less control for you over your life, more control for him over your life. Good luck with that one kids. I highly suggest that you ALL read John Locke's the second treatise of government and a letter concerning toleration before you ever vote on anything that has to do with the government again. And for me to be proud of the way this country voted. They would have had to vote against the current and vote in any number of the fabulous 3rd party candidates who actually understand a thing or two about how to govern a country, instead of voting with the hype. Quote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:43 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Jan 28, 2009, 06:32 AM
Not if we take him out of his presidency.
Not gonna happen...I'm sure you're a smart guy Jerry,you know that's not gonna happen.
QuoteQuote from: devilinside on Jan 28, 2009, 05:04 AM
I wasn't rolling my eye's at the video's you posted,I didn't even bother to watch them. I was rolling my eyes at
Quote from: lostpilot on Jan 27, 2009, 10:16 AM
so, americans, how's your CHANGE going on?
.
And I could give a fuck who likes Obama.....your bitching about it and posting all your videos won't change the fact that he's YOUR President.
So now it's bitching for informing people of the things that are happening in this country? Letting people know that he is just another fucking puppet...Fuck being a sheep...I will not accept him as my president.
Shit like this has been around for every president Jerry,Obama's not the first to have a lot of die hard supporters. And call them what you want,but I wouldn't consider people who are genuinely happy about POSSIBLE change,sheep. And you don't have to accept the fact he's your President....but he is.
you're missing his point ( probably because you don't ever watch his videos or read his articles. I could be wrong though ) His point isn't that a lot of people like him and are excited. Its that people, A LOT of people, are fanatics about him. They will dangerously follow him into anything without question. No matter what he says, its gold to them. That is extremely dangerous. Many , many great men of past America history have warned us about not being watchful and critical of our politicians. Most of them very accomplished politicians themselves. People might want to get over the fucking presidential honey moon, and get back to giving a fuck about their country again.
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Jan 28, 2009, 05:57 PM
OH NO CHANGE FOR THE GOOD?!? I don't think I can handle it!
go listen to Rush Limbaugh's president-hating, hoping-for-failure ass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYjWbAU2eU
This one is easy. What change? And for what good? ( I'm not actually expecting a reply, because I know you cant intelligently give one )Quote from: Starz on Jan 28, 2009, 10:09 PM
Mr. Obama and his continuation of Bush's policies, so he's ordered the Guantanamo detention facility to be closed within 12 months but yet the goat herders in Guantanamo won't be returned to their families, they are getting sent to special gulags that have already been set up in places like Eastern Europe, Egypt and Jordan etc... Hardly sounds like civil rights to me... But another tit-bit of what is to come from Obama aside from more abortions in China and Africa and the continued use of Gulags, is that he's now fired missles in Pakistan. His re-deployment of troops from Iraq into Afgahnistan was a sign of his intent towards the nuclear armed Pakistan, and now he has concreted this policy by firing missles and kiling at least 20 Pakistani's over the weekend... check out the Washington Post's article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012304189.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR
Obama will not change anything for the good... He is only their to neutralise the left and to continue the globalists agenda and if you live or have family in Pakistan then I would re-locate or build a bunker.
very good points. But for some reason people always ignore those very good points about Obama. I have been telling the guys at work not to plan on getting out of the military any time soon. Because were all going to Afghanistan for a troop build up ( I'm already slated to be there in less than a year ) and once the build up is big enough, rolling across the border into Pakistan bitches. The words stop and loss are going to get thrown around like its fucking cool. I have been saying it since I first heard Obamas Foreign relations policies. lol, it makes me laugh that America thinks they voted in favor of the troops. He is already on planning on cutting our funding like crazy, no more pay raises, is keeping something like 40,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely ( aka FOREVER ) , sending more troops to Afghanistan ( meaning less time home on the deployment rotations ) , then hes going to start a whole new war in a place that............. If yall thought Iraq was bad, don't expect too many to come home from an initial push into the tribal areas of Pakistan. Thats the truth. lol, thanks America for supporting the troops.
Variable, thank you.
i could never say it this well or even close. the fact is, you know more than any of us because you are active in the military. And also very educated of the history and logistics of government doctrine.
it is so true about people falling ill to the hype to where they would do anything. the videos speak slavery to me. "yes we can!"
"YES WE CAN!" its scary actually... very scary...
i wonder how this all will trun out scenario-wise... but i dont think it will be good at all... i think the people who support this theory of "change" and the whole campaign will not just be let down but will be surmounted by excruciating guilt once they see where this may lead. i could be wrong but rulers who preach change and hope, and all that is good, are lying through their charisma. like i say, if you want a change, bring on the Gandhi, or the Buddah, or the Jesus Christ.. people who had NO ruling or authority and were rather "humble"- which is the only position where you can "preach" what really matters and that is LOVE!!!
dont be a fool there is always something better that no government or stimulous can bring into your life.
Quotethis theory of "change
what theory is this?
this is y jerry curls points seem somehow pathetic to me. all i see is a campaing made by technocrats that want to sell america flags and obama merchandise. there is no ideology that can be critizized here.
if anything seems wrong than it is the structure of the whole thing. it has the structure of a mass movement, an in-group in that some individuals may possibly be able to attack out-group members. those that arent conform with everything, critizie it etc.
but to my eyes this has nothing to do with obama and his theory then, because there is no such thing, no theoretic basis.
we had the thing going on here in germany during soccer em and wm. every fucktard here bought a german flag or a germany tshirt or what do i know. it kinda felt wrong and of course there have been racist attacks in some cities. to my eyes they those attacks would have been done without those big events anyways. but the racist motivation wasnt brought by the "you are germany" campaign.
Quote from: 13hourstoparadise on Jan 29, 2009, 05:12 AM
Too much in this thread to read...
If someone rapes a child, or anyone for that matter I think they should be executed. Period. But then again I'm for assisted suicide, I am also stubborn; why didn't our culture didn't adapt the true, raw, honor of suicide like Ronin or the Samurai. Suicide should be embraced, rather than murder IMO. Holy shit that was the most emo thing I've ever said.
lol, bro we stopped talking about child rape like 5 months ago.
Quote from: Starz on Jan 29, 2009, 12:18 PM
You should read some of it man as a lot of good points are being made.
@Variable: If you're being slated to be in Afghanistan in the next year or so, does that mean if troops are sent into Pakistan, you could possibly be one of them?
Oh for sure. People get extended all the time. The last group of Marines that got sent to Afghanistan got extended two or three times. But if a whole new war breaks out, especially in Pakistan, I would for sure be rolling across. But I mean, not just me. A lot of military bases nation wide would be empty. If Obamas defense team is smarter that Bush's ( with the exception of Powell) then they would send an overwhelming amount of troops over to Pakistan to try to make an unstoppable momentum and minimize casualties on the ground. But I guess no one here is really looking for tips on war strategy.
Pretty much, my first time in Afghanistan was great. It's kind of the wild west over there. A lot of room for us to actually use our brains and act accordingly. But I'm a bit worried with this troop increase that its going to turn into Iraq. Just so much politics and having to get authorization for everything and all that bull shit. we will see though.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 29, 2009, 01:17 PM
The whole $335 million going to STD shit is absurd!
What are you talking abot exactly Mrs. Kelly?
Quote from: wither-I on Jan 29, 2009, 02:25 PM
Variable, thank you.
i could never say it this well or even close. the fact is, you know more than any of us because you are active in the military. And also very educated of the history and logistics of government doctrine.
it is so true about people falling ill to the hype to where they would do anything. the videos speak slavery to me. "yes we can!"
"YES WE CAN!" its scary actually... very scary...
i wonder how this all will trun out scenario-wise... but i dont think it will be good at all... i think the people who support this theory of "change" and the whole campaign will not just be let down but will be surmounted by excruciating guilt once they see where this may lead. i could be wrong but rulers who preach change and hope, and all that is good, are lying through their charisma. like i say, if you want a change, bring on the Gandhi, or the Buddah, or the Jesus Christ.. people who had NO ruling or authority and were rather "humble"- which is the only position where you can "preach" what really matters and that is LOVE!!!
dont be a fool there is always something better that no government or stimulous can bring into your life.
I try. Thanks though. Haven't seen you around for a while. Good to see you back. Nailec too. Looks like a good Obama discussion brings the free thinkers out of the woodwork.
I hear what you're saying about how scary this potentially is. But I hope to god its just potential. I'm really hoping that as bad as everything has been since......like fucking FDR or maybe even before, that it just doesn't get any worse. Obviously we aren't going to get a truly dynamic president ( like in my opinion Ron Paul ) any time soon. So the most I can hope for is that what Jerry is talking about doesn't actually happen. If people literally start following the executive branch blindly no matter what. I really don't know what is going to happen. I imagine some
red dawn type scenarios though.
Interesting though. I was talking to my friend stephany the other night. I have mentioned her many times here. A very educated , very intelligent, but thinks exact opposite of me with politics, young lady. And we both kind of agreed that we did this shit to ourselves. People stopped paying attention to their local elections. Elections for congressmen and senators. Even state senators and governors. They truly do have the constitutional power ( along with the supreme court ) to stop the executive brach in its tracks. But we keep electing in a bunch of cowards and partisan bitches to office who don't stand for anything. I truly believe that this is probably one of the best ways to put an end to the rapid expansion of government and the executive branch. We could get a lot done if we put the right people on the hill.
Quote from: Nailec on Jan 29, 2009, 03:14 PM
Quotethis theory of "change
what theory is this?
this is y jerry curls points seem somehow pathetic to me. all i see is a campaing made by technocrats that want to sell america flags and obama merchandise. there is no ideology that can be critizized here.
if anything seems wrong than it is the structure of the whole thing. it has the structure of a mass movement, an in-group in that some individuals may possibly be able to attack out-group members. those that arent conform with everything, critizie it etc.
but to my eyes this has nothing to do with obama and his theory then, because there is no such thing, no theoretic basis.
we had the thing going on here in germany during soccer em and wm. every fucktard here bought a german flag or a germany tshirt or what do i know. it kinda felt wrong and of course there have been racist attacks in some cities. to my eyes they those attacks would have been done without those big events anyways. but the racist motivation wasnt brought by the "you are germany" campaign.
like I said, its good to see you around again. Maybe its just because I am exhausted. But I really don't get what you're trying to say.
From what I do gather though. I would say that Obama's theory of change is that if you tell people it will be different, then tell people that it is different, it doesn't really matter that nothing is different, they will believe it to be so. Especially if you can distract them with some bull shit about being historical and progressive. No one pays attention to the actual facts. It worked great for him. He was almost identical to McCain in his views on how to govern. But most people to this day still think of them as different as night and day. So ill end this with a quote from one of your favorites " How great for governments, that the people don't think " -Adolf Hitler
Quote from: Variable on Jan 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 29, 2009, 01:17 PM
The whole $335 million going to STD shit is absurd!
What are you talking abot exactly Mrs. Kelly?
This:
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212203687.shtml
I mean,I can understand it's a preventative measure as far as health care goes,kinda getting to the root before it gets serious,but seriously,$335 million fucking dollars cause people can't put a fucking condom on or use a fucking dental dam?? I think the money should go elsewhere....
See, that is what we are talking about. Obama supporters challenging Obama. That is what we need. Its cool that your boy is in office. But now we need you guys more than anyone to be like " woh buddy, at ease. This is not what we elected you for. " Because honestly, its probably pretty fucking hard to make these kind of decisions as president. I mean think about it. By the time you reach that level, you are probably pretty disconnected. So even if you genuinely want to represent the majority as best as possible, it might be really hard. He needs people to fly the bull shit flag so that he knows how to better serve people. Not just have the large masses praise him at every move regardless of its consequences.
There were a few other things too. Like some shit for amtrack, a few billion for climate change research ( which is cool I guess, but has nothing to do with the economy ) some analog to digital changeover coupons.....I cant remember them all. O'reilly was calling him out on it and I caught it while I was in the chow hall. But there was a lot of BS that had nothing to do with creating jobs or unfreezing credit. But it passed, all of it. Even though every single republican voted against it. I wonder if the Dems voted for it unanimously?
I dont know,but I think they should have just given American taxpayers a portion of that money,and let it help boost the economy. And the cable thing....laughable. I know I wouldn't have voted for it.
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 30, 2009, 02:10 AM
Quote from: Variable on Jan 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
Quote from: devilinside on Jan 29, 2009, 01:17 PM
The whole $335 million going to STD shit is absurd!
What are you talking abot exactly Mrs. Kelly?
This:
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212203687.shtml
I mean,I can understand it's a preventative measure as far as health care goes,kinda getting to the root before it gets serious,but seriously,$335 million fucking dollars cause people can't put a fucking condom on or use a fucking dental dam?? I think the money should go elsewhere....
Like war? That amount is NOTHING compared to the war. That is about 5 cents to one billion dollars.
People are NOT smart enough to use a condom, and in many cases that still doesn't help. For instance HPV, it spreads like crazy, mainly pussy juices... But it can cause cancer in the female parts... Much needed research. Just one example.
they dont have GUM clinics in the US? i went to one in the UK last month, turns out i had the clap
Quotelike I said, its good to see you around again. Maybe its just because I am exhausted. But I really don't get what you're trying to say.
excuse my bad english. i dont use it in daily life and till now i had no chance to live in some english-speaking country for a while.
the take home message reverbalized:
"Change" is not an ideology. i think it is nothing more than a marketing campaign. the intension of obama`s "change" seems pretty empty to me. it is just a phrase that can be filled different by different people.
so it seems ridiculous to me to accuse him to propagate an ideology or a potent dangerous mass movement.
as far as i know he didnt write such thing as "Mein Kampf".
its weekend. i got some time to read some news of the past week. all i noticed is that he has done (or at least said or concluded) a lot of positive things.
YES WE CAN!
the whole thing still scares me..
Alan Keyes: Stop Obama or U.S. will 'cease to exist'
Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes talked to KHAS' Curt Casper after speaking to fundraiser in Hastings, Nebraska. Keyes was highly critical of President Obama.
"Obama is a radical communist and I think it is becoming clear. That is what I told people in Illinois and now everybody realizes it is coming true. He is going to destroy this country and we are either going to stop him or the United States of America is going to cease to exist," said Keyes.
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=2985
Interesting interview.
haha, alan keyes is crazy. how can you take anything he says seriously?
just take a look back at he 2004 illinois senate campaign. he's a christian fundamentalist...opposed to abortion in all cases... and calls homosexuality an abomonation.
i remember hearing that he said "Jesus Christ wouldn't vote for Obama". haha what a nut.
are you really believing the words from a man like this, Jerry? you're gay and you think a delusioned, gay hating man like this has something interesting to say?
that baffles my mind.
yeah give it a rest, I witnessed first-hand here in Illinois the debacle that is Alan Keyes
I think its clear that jerry is a self-hating homosexual conservative. i bet he even goes to the saddleback church and has gone to "gay rehab"
j/k
lol
obamas a robot, hes not real. i have proof
OMG I love your sig!
that is all
(http://gamu-toys.info/sonota/sw/obama/DSC_4681.JPG)
I hate Obama, but I have to admit, that's pretty fucking awesome.
Rothschild Agents Take 10 Key Posts
In Administration of Rookie President
By Michael Collins Piper
OUR GREATEST FOUNDING FATHER and first president, George Washington, probably wouldn't be ready to celebrate his birthday on Feb. 22 if he were alive today. Having led the 13 colonies to independence from the British Empire in 1783, following the course of a difficult eight-year struggle by those freedom-loving American colonists who followed him, Washington (who lived from 1732 to 1799) would most assuredly be appalled to see that the liberties achieved from the American Revolution are now being flagrantly defied by a number of figures who populate the upper ranks of the administration of Barack Obama.
Six former Rhodes Scholars (educated at Oxford University in Britain) and four others associated with the London School of Economics are serving in key posts in the Obama administration. That's not good.
Here are 10 of the key "British"—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):
Susan Rice—ambassador to the UN; Michael McFaul—head of the Russian desk at the National Security Council; Elena Kagan—solicitor general of the United States; Anne-Marie Slaughter—State Department policy planning staff; Neal S.Wolin—deputy counsel to the president for economic policy; Ezekial Emanuel—senior counselor at the White House Office of Management and Budget on health care policy; Lawrence Summers—head of the National Economic Council; Peter Orszag—director of the Office of Management and Budget; Peter Rouse—senior advisor to the president; Mona Sutphen—deputy chief of the White House staff.
The truth about the Rhodes Scholarships is not known to the average American who is constantly told by the mass media that Rhodes Scholars (such as former President Bill Clinton) are among "the best and the brightest."
The Rhodes Scholarships—awarded to Americans and students from other former British colonies—are funded by a trust set up by 19th Century British imperial figure Cecil Rhodes, whose intent was to indoctrinate these scholars with the theme that the American colonies should be reunited with the British Empire and that they should work through "public service" to achieve that goal.
But Rhodes wasn't just some rich madcap dreamer. His ventures were underwritten by the international Rothschild dynasty operating from the financial district in London known as "The City"—the banking center of the Rothschild controlled British empire that also includes the London School of Economics.
So now a clique of internationalists trained in the idea of extinguishing American independence are ensconced in the Obama administration.
And another Rhodes Scholar, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, is widely touted as the great Grand Old Party candidate to "take back the White House" in 2012. Jindal doesn't offer "change." He—like the other globalists in the Obama administration—is part of the problem.
All of this is not a "conspiracy theory." Rather, these facts are well known to those familiar with what the Rhodes scholarships are really about.
A journalist specializing in media critique, Michael Collins Piper is the author of The High Priests of War, The New Jerusalem, Dirty Secrets, The Judas Goats, The Golem, Target Traficant and My First Days in the White House All are available from AFP.
Subscribe to American Free Press. Online subscriptions: One year of weekly editions—$15 plus you get a BONUS ELECTRONIC BOOK - HIGH PRIESTS OF WAR - By Michael Piper.
Print subscriptions: 52 issues crammed into 47 weeks of the year plus six free issues of Whole Body Health: $59 Order on this website or call toll free 1-888-699-NEWS .
Sign up for our free e-newsletter here - get a free gift just for signing up!
(Issue # 8, February 23, 2009)
Please make a donation to American Free Press
Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/rothschild_agents_168.html
That last post made me LOL. i wonder if all these rhodes scholars drink high tea and play god save the queen every morning ;D
i love tea.
Earl Grey ftw!
THE OBAMA DECEPTION is finally here...
Please watch and finally get to understand why he is a fake, marionette "President".
Part 1/12
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KrpRocaEfQE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KrpRocaEfQE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
search through youtube for the other parts.
Here it is, in full, on google...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6223232123104914517&ei=4OG4SYLjM5GgqgLVs9z8Ag&q=The+Obama+Deception+full&dur=3
you post a lot of shit, but you never respond to our responses.
Just once I didn't respond.
I do what I want.
but...when you post all this stuff, dont you wanna have a debate about it? it seems like you only come here to post anti-obama articles/vids.
sure you can do what you want...i'm not telling you otherwise...
eh, whatever.
:)
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 02, 2009, 12:53 AM
Rothschild Agents Take 10 Key Posts
In Administration of Rookie President
By Michael Collins Piper
OUR GREATEST FOUNDING FATHER and first president, George Washington, probably wouldn't be ready to celebrate his birthday on Feb. 22 if he were alive today. Having led the 13 colonies to independence from the British Empire in 1783, following the course of a difficult eight-year struggle by those freedom-loving American colonists who followed him, Washington (who lived from 1732 to 1799) would most assuredly be appalled to see that the liberties achieved from the American Revolution are now being flagrantly defied by a number of figures who populate the upper ranks of the administration of Barack Obama.
Six former Rhodes Scholars (educated at Oxford University in Britain) and four others associated with the London School of Economics are serving in key posts in the Obama administration. That's not good.
Here are 10 of the key "British"—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):
Susan Rice—ambassador to the UN; Michael McFaul—head of the Russian desk at the National Security Council; Elena Kagan—solicitor general of the United States; Anne-Marie Slaughter—State Department policy planning staff; Neal S.Wolin—deputy counsel to the president for economic policy; Ezekial Emanuel—senior counselor at the White House Office of Management and Budget on health care policy; Lawrence Summers—head of the National Economic Council; Peter Orszag—director of the Office of Management and Budget; Peter Rouse—senior advisor to the president; Mona Sutphen—deputy chief of the White House staff.
The truth about the Rhodes Scholarships is not known to the average American who is constantly told by the mass media that Rhodes Scholars (such as former President Bill Clinton) are among "the best and the brightest."
The Rhodes Scholarships—awarded to Americans and students from other former British colonies—are funded by a trust set up by 19th Century British imperial figure Cecil Rhodes, whose intent was to indoctrinate these scholars with the theme that the American colonies should be reunited with the British Empire and that they should work through "public service" to achieve that goal.
But Rhodes wasn't just some rich madcap dreamer. His ventures were underwritten by the international Rothschild dynasty operating from the financial district in London known as "The City"—the banking center of the Rothschild controlled British empire that also includes the London School of Economics.
So now a clique of internationalists trained in the idea of extinguishing American independence are ensconced in the Obama administration.
And another Rhodes Scholar, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, is widely touted as the great Grand Old Party candidate to "take back the White House" in 2012. Jindal doesn't offer "change." He—like the other globalists in the Obama administration—is part of the problem.
All of this is not a "conspiracy theory." Rather, these facts are well known to those familiar with what the Rhodes scholarships are really about.
A journalist specializing in media critique, Michael Collins Piper is the author of The High Priests of War, The New Jerusalem, Dirty Secrets, The Judas Goats, The Golem, Target Traficant and My First Days in the White House All are available from AFP.
Subscribe to American Free Press. Online subscriptions: One year of weekly editions—$15 plus you get a BONUS ELECTRONIC BOOK - HIGH PRIESTS OF WAR - By Michael Piper.
Print subscriptions: 52 issues crammed into 47 weeks of the year plus six free issues of Whole Body Health: $59 Order on this website or call toll free 1-888-699-NEWS .
Sign up for our free e-newsletter here - get a free gift just for signing up!
(Issue # 8, February 23, 2009)
Please make a donation to American Free Press
Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/rothschild_agents_168.html
and there we go again. the jewish world conspiracy that wants to rule the whole world.
just inform yourselfes about Michael Collins Piper.
ban jerry from the board plz
Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist.
It's about Obamas laughable cabinet. Just trying to inform people that we not getting change, just more of the same.
How can you expect to get solid change in just a little over a month??
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist.
It's about Obamas laughable cabinet. Just trying to inform people that we not getting change, just more of the same.
are you really that fucking dumb? he clearly identiefies the rulers of the usa with 10 people who are supportet by Rothschild.
"Here are 10 of the key "British"—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):"
dont try to tell me you didnt know that rothschild is a banking company who support the idea of a nessecary zionist state and who are often enough the victim of antisemitic conspiracy theories by such people as you.
just take a look t the headlines of some of Pipers articles on your lovely site.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/
"Israel's Dirty Secret: Hamas Was Creation Of Zionist Intriguers" it cant get more antisemitic than that.
"Massive Zionist Slush Fund Used To Influence Presidential Election" again. jews control the usa.
on wikipedia i just read he makes the Mossad responsible for JFKs death and of course 911.
and on top of it all. he obviously denied the holocaust.
do i need to say n e moar?
you know that antisemitism isnt tolerated by people here so you just try to hide it here.
omg obamas black
Quote from: devilinside on Mar 13, 2009, 10:19 PM
How can you expect to get solid change in just a little over a month??
i'm with you. it takes at least 7 months to change (hopefully for the good)
that's about how long it took for W. to fuck things up and create a downward spiral. (intentional NIN reference)
WOOT TDS!
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 13, 2009, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist.
It's about Obamas laughable cabinet. Just trying to inform people that we not getting change, just more of the same.
are you really that fucking dumb? he clearly identiefies the rulers of the usa with 10 people who are supportet by Rothschild.
"Here are 10 of the key "British"—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):"
dont try to tell me you didnt know that rothschild is a banking company who support the idea of a nessecary zionist state and who are often enough the victim of antisemitic conspiracy theories by such people as you.
just take a look t the headlines of some of Pipers articles on your lovely site.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/
"Israel's Dirty Secret: Hamas Was Creation Of Zionist Intriguers" it cant get more antisemitic than that.
"Massive Zionist Slush Fund Used To Influence Presidential Election" again. jews control the usa.
on wikipedia i just read he makes the Mossad responsible for JFKs death and of course 911.
and on top of it all. he obviously denied the holocaust.
do i need to say n e moar?
you know that antisemitism isnt tolerated by people here so you just try to hide it here.
Sheesh. Calm down with the tude.
ANTIZIONISM =/= ANTISEMITISMWhatever. Fucking ban me for having an opinion.
i just prooved that this author believes in a jewish world conspiracy (and most likeley u believe in that too) and you tell me, that is just antizionism?
oh and yeah what does the denial of the shoa has to do with zionism?
and u think ur just fine when you say youre just an antizionist while actually that is just a cloak in your case.
i bet youre some boy with a palestine scarf that compares israel with the ns regime and thinks that this is total adequate critizicm.
how can u even tell me to calm down when im confrontated with people that wanna see the jews dead?
lol
i cant see anything funny in this matter.
i mean. jerry probablly thinks that obama is the second coming of hitler.
he thinks that israels self defence against facsist terrorist is comparable to the shoa.
he probablly denies the shoa or thinks that jews deserved it as they tried to take over the control to germany or some abstruse shit like that.
he thinks that videos like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4yloipsoZ0
prooveso obamas fascist reign while actually it show how blacks got a new self-esteem.
I think it's really weird these days to hear about the president on the news and the focus not being on what stupid shit he said today. Even if Obama doesn't save the universe, at least he's not a moron like the last mass murderer.
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 15, 2009, 07:33 PM
i cant see anything funny in this matter.
i mean. jerry probablly thinks that obama is the second coming of hitler.
he thinks that israels self defence against facsist terrorist is comparable to the shoa.
he probablly denies the shoa or thinks that jews deserved it as they tried to take over the control to germany or some abstruse shit like that.
he thinks that videos like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4yloipsoZ0
prooveso obamas fascist reign while actually it show how blacks got a new self-esteem.
Oh I don't think its funny...I'm just laughing cause you kinda ripped into Jerry.
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 13, 2009, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist.
It's about Obamas laughable cabinet. Just trying to inform people that we not getting change, just more of the same.
are you really that fucking dumb? he clearly identiefies the rulers of the usa with 10 people who are supportet by Rothschild.
"Here are 10 of the key "British"—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):"
dont try to tell me you didnt know that rothschild is a banking company who support the idea of a nessecary zionist state and who are often enough the victim of antisemitic conspiracy theories by such people as you.
just take a look t the headlines of some of Pipers articles on your lovely site.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/
"Israel's Dirty Secret: Hamas Was Creation Of Zionist Intriguers" it cant get more antisemitic than that.
"Massive Zionist Slush Fund Used To Influence Presidential Election" again. jews control the usa.
on wikipedia i just read he makes the Mossad responsible for JFKs death and of course 911.
and on top of it all. he obviously denied the holocaust.
do i need to say n e moar?
you know that antisemitism isnt tolerated by people here so you just try to hide it here.
Back to this quote. ... I said, "Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist"...and it doesn't. AT ALL. Don't call me dumb when what I've said is true. Then you go ahead and put words in my mouth [mind?...statement?] ..."i just prooved that this author believes in a jewish world conspiracy (and most likeley u believe in that too) and you tell me, that is just antizionism?" I did not say anything related to him being an antizionist and how he is a good one, how his beliefs are justified..yadda yadda. You're totally making all this shit up...tryingt o swerve the topic at hand..trying to make it look like I'm stating these things when I'm obviously not. Like I said, CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
Seriously.
You're putting HUGE fucking words in my mouth. I do not want any JEWS fucking dead. How the fuck can you say that? FUCK YOU. I don't want anybody dead besides the people who have fucked up and continue to fuck up this country. Can we talk about Obama and not the author of ann article. Oh, how about continuing to suck the crackriddled cock of your messiah.
QuoteZionism is the problem
The Zionist ideal of a Jewish state is keeping Israelis and Palestinians from living in peace.
By Ben Ehrenreich
March 15, 2009
It's hard to imagine now, but in 1944, six years after Kristallnacht, Lessing J. Rosenwald, president of the American Council for Judaism, felt comfortable equating the Zionist ideal of Jewish statehood with "the concept of a racial state -- the Hitlerian concept." For most of the last century, a principled opposition to Zionism was a mainstream stance within American Judaism.
Even after the foundation of Israel, anti-Zionism was not a particularly heretical position. Assimilated Reform Jews like Rosenwald believed that Judaism should remain a matter of religious rather than political allegiance; the ultra-Orthodox saw Jewish statehood as an impious attempt to "push the hand of God"; and Marxist Jews -- my grandparents among them -- tended to see Zionism, and all nationalisms, as a distraction from the more essential struggle between classes.
To be Jewish, I was raised to believe, meant understanding oneself as a member of a tribe that over and over had been cast out, mistreated, slaughtered. Millenniums of oppression that preceded it did not entitle us to a homeland or a right to self-defense that superseded anyone else's. If they offered us anything exceptional, it was a perspective on oppression and an obligation born of the prophetic tradition: to act on behalf of the oppressed and to cry out at the oppressor.
For the last several decades, though, it has been all but impossible to cry out against the Israeli state without being smeared as an anti-Semite, or worse. To question not just Israel's actions, but the Zionist tenets on which the state is founded, has for too long been regarded an almost unspeakable blasphemy.
Yet it is no longer possible to believe with an honest conscience that the deplorable conditions in which Palestinians live and die in Gaza and the West Bank come as the result of specific policies, leaders or parties on either side of the impasse. The problem is fundamental: Founding a modern state on a single ethnic or religious identity in a territory that is ethnically and religiously diverse leads inexorably either to politics of exclusion (think of the 139-square-mile prison camp that Gaza has become) or to wholesale ethnic cleansing. Put simply, the problem is Zionism.
It has been argued that Zionism is an anachronism, a leftover ideology from the era of 19th century romantic nationalisms wedged uncomfortably into 21st century geopolitics. But Zionism is not merely outdated. Even before 1948, one of its basic oversights was readily apparent: the presence of Palestinians in Palestine. That led some of the most prominent Jewish thinkers of the last century, many of them Zionists, to balk at the idea of Jewish statehood. The Brit Shalom movement -- founded in 1925 and supported at various times by Martin Buber, Hannah Arendt and Gershom Scholem -- argued for a secular, binational state in Palestine in which Jews and Arabs would be accorded equal status. Their concerns were both moral and pragmatic. The establishment of a Jewish state, Buber feared, would mean "premeditated national suicide."
The fate Buber foresaw is upon us: a nation that has lived in a state of war for decades, a quarter-million Arab citizens with second-class status and more than 5 million Palestinians deprived of the most basic political and human rights. If two decades ago comparisons to the South African apartheid system felt like hyperbole, they now feel charitable. The white South African regime, for all its crimes, never attacked the Bantustans with anything like the destructive power Israel visited on Gaza in December and January, when nearly1,300 Palestinians were killed, one-third of them children.
Israeli policies have rendered the once apparently inevitable two-state solution less and less feasible. Years of Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem have methodically diminished the viability of a Palestinian state. Israel's new prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has even refused to endorse the idea of an independent Palestinian state, which suggests an immediate future of more of the same: more settlements, more punitive assaults.
All of this has led to a revival of the Brit Shalom idea of a single, secular binational state in which Jews and Arabs have equal political rights. The obstacles are, of course, enormous. They include not just a powerful Israeli attachment to the idea of an exclusively Jewish state, but its Palestinian analogue: Hamas' ideal of Islamic rule. Both sides would have to find assurance that their security was guaranteed. What precise shape such a state would take -- a strict, vote-by-vote democracy or a more complex federalist system -- would involve years of painful negotiation, wiser leaders than now exist and an uncompromising commitment from the rest of the world, particularly from the United States.
Meanwhile, the characterization of anti-Zionism as an "epidemic" more dangerous than anti-Semitism reveals only the unsustainability of the position into which Israel's apologists have been forced. Faced with international condemnation, they seek to limit the discourse, to erect walls that delineate what can and can't be said.
It's not working. Opposing Zionism is neither anti-Semitic nor particularly radical. It requires only that we take our own values seriously and no longer, as the book of Amos has it, "turn justice into wormwood and hurl righteousness to the ground."
Establishing a secular, pluralist, democratic government in Israel and Palestine would of course mean the abandonment of the Zionist dream. It might also mean the only salvation for the Jewish ideals of justice that date back to Jeremiah.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ehrenreich15-2009mar15,0,6684861.story
Right there is exactly whats on my mind.
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 16, 2009, 01:20 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 13, 2009, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Mar 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist.
It's about Obamas laughable cabinet. Just trying to inform people that we not getting change, just more of the same.
are you really that fucking dumb? he clearly identiefies the rulers of the usa with 10 people who are supportet by Rothschild.
"Here are 10 of the key “British”—that is, Rothschild —operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):"
dont try to tell me you didnt know that rothschild is a banking company who support the idea of a nessecary zionist state and who are often enough the victim of antisemitic conspiracy theories by such people as you.
just take a look t the headlines of some of Pipers articles on your lovely site.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/
"Israel’s Dirty Secret: Hamas Was Creation Of Zionist Intriguers" it cant get more antisemitic than that.
"Massive Zionist Slush Fund Used To Influence Presidential Election" again. jews control the usa.
on wikipedia i just read he makes the Mossad responsible for JFKs death and of course 911.
and on top of it all. he obviously denied the holocaust.
do i need to say n e moar?
you know that antisemitism isnt tolerated by people here so you just try to hide it here.
Back to this quote. ... I said, "Nowhere in this article does it say the word Jewish or Zionist"...and it doesn't. AT ALL. Don't call me dumb when what I've said is true. Then you go ahead and put words in my mouth [mind?...statement?] ..."i just prooved that this author believes in a jewish world conspiracy (and most likeley u believe in that too) and you tell me, that is just antizionism?" I did not say anything related to him being an antizionist and how he is a good one, how his beliefs are justified..yadda yadda. You're totally making all this shit up...tryingt o swerve the topic at hand..trying to make it look like I'm stating these things when I'm obviously not. Like I said, CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
Seriously.
You're putting HUGE fucking words in my mouth. I do not want any JEWS fucking dead. How the fuck can you say that? FUCK YOU. I don't want anybody dead besides the people who have fucked up and continue to fuck up this country. Can we talk about Obama and not the author of ann article. Oh, how about continuing to suck the crackriddled cock of your messiah.
nailec's a bitch dont listen to that dude. everything is always about jews with him. he cant let it go.
he's ashamed and frightful of what he might do one day himself.
he has no control and he takes it out of you to hug himself. silly germs
Quote from: bright lights, big city on Mar 14, 2009, 03:57 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Mar 13, 2009, 10:19 PM
How can you expect to get solid change in just a little over a month??
i'm with you. it takes at least 7 months to change (hopefully for the good)
that's about how long it took for W. to fuck things up and create a downward spiral. (intentional NIN reference)
i laughed at these two statements for a while.
change. pshhhhhhhhhhh
how about.... you have been fooled and your complete idiots
WAR is never finished, and you two only strangle the throats of helpless children
LOL....riiiiiight.
Quote from: devilinside on Mar 16, 2009, 05:22 PM
LOL....riiiiiight.
keep laughing i beg you...
everytime you lol an american, with the will of decision,- takes another mother's life.
EVERY TIME.
just be glad its not your house thats been burned and your mother who's been raped by obama's change.
WE'RE AT WAR WITH AN ENTIRE REGION OF PEOPLE, MURDERING THEM IN STAGGERING "DIGITS", AND WE'RE STILL HANGING ONTO "WORDS" CAST OUT BY AN UNKNOWN MAN, WITH CAPITAL AMBITIONS, AND NOTHING BUT GREED FOR MONEY ON HIS MIND.
let's see who cares, really? and hopefully our messiah pulls through :)
hope, it sounds so delighful
Quote from: wither-I on Mar 16, 2009, 05:30 PM
Quote from: devilinside on Mar 16, 2009, 05:22 PM
LOL....riiiiiight.
keep laughing i beg you...
everytime you lol an american, with the will of decision,- takes another mother's life.
EVERY TIME.
just be glad its not your house thats been burned and your mother who's been raped by obama's change.
WE'RE AT WAR WITH AN ENTIRE REGION OF PEOPLE, MURDERING THEM IN STAGGERING "DIGITS", AND WE'RE STILL HANGING ONTO "WORDS" CAST OUT BY AN UNKNOWN MAN, WITH CAPITAL AMBITIONS, AND NOTHING BUT GREED FOR MONEY ON HIS MIND.
let's see who cares, really? and hopefully our messiah pulls through :)
hope, it sounds so delighful
I'm soo tired of hearing this "your messiah" bullshit. Obama is NOT my fucking messiah. Just cause people have possible faith in someone you assume we worship them and are all up on their nuts. That's retarded. And people are not stupid just because they don't believe the same thing as you. That's stupid for you to act that way. Let people have their own opinion about stuff.
And this
Quote
everytime you lol an american, with the will of decision,- takes another mother's life.
made me lol. Kinda like "every time you masturbate,god kills a kitten"
What is all of this messiah bullshit anyway? I just want something different and I won't believe anything until I see it. It was a monumental victory, but whether or not he'll show integrity and honesty has yet to be seen. What is the motivation behind all of this? I read this thread and I'm almost as irritated as I am when I hear people screaming about the 2012, end of the world crap. Que sera, sera. If you think building a soapbox out of excrement gives you a righteous purpose then the joke's on you. The paranoid and terrified are part of the problem. If you don't like it then go do something about it. With such a variety of people on this board, of all backgrounds and values, we sure do have a lot of stubborn, stereotypical mudslinging going on. Fuck.
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Mar 16, 2009, 05:52 PM
If you think building a soapbox out of excrement gives you a righteous purpose then the joke's on you.
haha that sounds like it's straight out of some whitechapel lyrics.
i agree though. i think everyone needs to find a happy medium between expecting the absolute worst (extreme pessimism) and thinking everything is gonna get fixed (extreme optimism) cuz i think either way you're just gonna be pissed off by politics. and what the hell is so hard about making your opinion/opposition known without throwing out some ridiculous presumptions about others?
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Mar 16, 2009, 06:08 PM
Quote from: oldgentlovecraft on Mar 16, 2009, 05:52 PM
If you think building a soapbox out of excrement gives you a righteous purpose then the joke's on you.
haha that sounds like it's straight out of some whitechapel lyrics.
i agree though. i think everyone needs to find a happy medium between expecting the absolute worst (extreme pessimism) and thinking everything is gonna get fixed (extreme optimism) cuz i think either way you're just gonna be pissed off by politics. and what the hell is so hard about making your opinion/opposition known without throwing out some ridiculous presumptions about others?
Lol metal flows in these veins. I agree with finding a medium. By acting aggressive and getting angry when others do not agree you are nothing better than the people you are arguing with. Clash of the crazies. It's amusing and infuriating at the same time.
ok jerry. explain to me y you are reading articles and use them in your argmentation when the author is an antisemit?
if i want to convince people that drgs are a bad thing, i dont back up my opinion with quotes from the bible or right-winged anti-drug people whatever. because i dont want me to be positioned next to them or my name to be called with their name in the same breath.
there are always different ways to back up your opionion.
cant you find arguments against your system or against obama or whoever that work without antisemitic statements and conspiracy theories?
btw im far away from sucking obamas cock. physically as i live in germany. but also far away by my thoughts.
@wither-i: i guess some of the things i said also go out to you. read michael collins piper and tell me if you think that he is someone you can relate to.
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 16, 2009, 06:41 PM
ok jerry. explain to me y you are reading articles and use them in your argmentation when the author is an antisemit?
if i want to convince people that drgs are a bad thing, i dont back up my opinion with quotes from the bible or right-winged anti-drug people whatever. because i dont want me to be positioned next to them or my name to be called with their name in the same breath.
there are always different ways to back up your opionion.
cant you find arguments against your system or against obama or whoever that work without antisemitic statements and conspiracy theories?
btw im far away from sucking obamas cock. physically as i live in germany. but also far away by my thoughts.
@wither-i: i guess some of the things i said also go out to you. read michael collins piper and tell me if you think that he is someone you can relate to.
i dont give a shit about peter piper, - i just dont understand why you alwaaaaaaaaaays bring antisemitism into everything you ever say bruh, its pretentious and off topic. now go save germany again
(http://www.bigbamboostock.com/photos/BALI-0076-cock-fight.jpg)
Quote from: wither-I on Mar 16, 2009, 07:24 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Mar 16, 2009, 06:41 PM
ok jerry. explain to me y you are reading articles and use them in your argmentation when the author is an antisemit?
if i want to convince people that drgs are a bad thing, i dont back up my opinion with quotes from the bible or right-winged anti-drug people whatever. because i dont want me to be positioned next to them or my name to be called with their name in the same breath.
there are always different ways to back up your opionion.
cant you find arguments against your system or against obama or whoever that work without antisemitic statements and conspiracy theories?
btw im far away from sucking obamas cock. physically as i live in germany. but also far away by my thoughts.
@wither-i: i guess some of the things i said also go out to you. read michael collins piper and tell me if you think that he is someone you can relate to.
i dont give a shit about peter piper, - i just dont understand why you alwaaaaaaaaaays bring antisemitism into everything you ever say bruh, its pretentious and off topic. now go save germany again
ever heard about Auschwitz?
its our duty to live in a society that doesnt create such a cruelty again.
identifying a group of people, may them be jews or whatever, that shall be responsible for all the bad things that happen in our world is the wrong way of social critizism. all you do is to create an artificial outgroup which in consequence must be imprisoned or eliminated by the ingroup who wants the best for the world.
ever heard about the stanford prison experiment? it shows how normal people can get violent and insulting under special circumstances. it is the arrangement of the system that creates violence or exploitation or other immoralities.
every unfree society in the world has some kind of outgroup which is needed to justify all actions of the regime, to keep the ingroup clean from the bad influence of the enemy. northkorea, russia, china, venezuela etc. need the usa as their enemy. iran and the hamas for example need israel aka the jews as nazi germany did. the usa needed islamistic terrorists in order to create some very problematic new laws and safety regulations. in fact they all had and have other very real problems instead.
i bring antisemitism in, when i see or read it.
the article that jerry wanted us to read http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/rothschild_agents_168.html
is clearly antisemitic.
it doesnt say we should all go out and kill some jews but it includes a typical antisemitc clichee of the jews secretly ruling the world.