?
with whom?
or am i an idiot for not knowing?
Quote from: wither-I on Aug 09, 2008, 01:13 AM
with whom?
or am i an idiot for not knowing?
Georgia
Yeah man. The Mainstream media is only covering John Edwards personal life.
I care. Cause my country, Lithuania, is near Russia. Almost all time of Lithuania's existence Russia tortured our country. During the wars, they took thousands of Lithuanian people to army for 25 years, very many people were banned to the North Russia, Siberia, to die of starvation there. For me, Russia is the worst enemy of us, Lithuanians.
Nobody ever worried about Russia that much, as we did - everyone thought about Hitler, when we had Stalin. And trust me, he was not too good to us.
who said russia is starting a war.
georgia started to shoot its own people and russia takes care of them.
probablly russia isnt allowed to do this since they didnt declare war on georgia but this is probablly better than letting georgia do a genocide or whatever.
are you mad!??? are you watching Russian TV or Fox News!?
Ossetia is Georgian territory, but Russian influence spread over this piece of land. Russia wants to buttfuck another country.
Liek BORED said. Many countries were destructed because of Russia. Poland didn't even exist for 123 because Russia (and Germany and Austria) took our country. That's fucked up. I hope Georgians will do their bes and defend their country. I feel sorry for Georgian people.
Well, i'm sorry that foreign reviewers and tv channels think (or just say?) so^^
Osetian people WANT to be part of Russia (they want it since ussr collapse), and Georgia never allow them, so now Georgia (the whole country) started war against Osetia which has only about 70 000 people in there.
Yes, Russia supports Osetia with weapons, and i think it's fair.
That's not we who started the war. For years we offered Georgia to sign document according to which both sides promise not to start any conflict on border. Georgia always refused. They were definitely preparing to this war.
Really, i'm scared what propaganda you get there in Poland. And i'm sorry to see ur sig
Quote from: bored on Aug 09, 2008, 09:23 AM
I care. Cause my country, Lithuania, is near Russia. Almost all time of Lithuania's existence Russia tortured our country. During the wars, they took thousands of Lithuanian people to army for 25 years, very many people were banned to the North Russia, Siberia, to die of starvation there. For me, Russia is the worst enemy of us, Lithuanians.
Nobody ever worried about Russia that much, as we did - everyone thought about Hitler, when we had Stalin. And trust me, he was not too good to us.
afaik, now in Lithuania Russian/Ussr symbols are forbidden and have the same status as facists' symbols. It's absolutely ridiculous. Stalin took territory, Hitler took lives. Who's better? I think answer is obvious
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 09, 2008, 10:49 AM
are you mad!??? are you watching Russian TV or Fox News!?
Ossetia is Georgian territory, but Russian influence spread over this piece of land. Russia wants to buttfuck another country.
Liek BORED said. Many countries were destructed because of Russia. Poland didn't even exist for 123 because Russia (and Germany and Austria) took our country. That's fucked up. I hope Georgians will do their bes and defend their country. I feel sorry for Georgian people.
yeah its georgian territory, right. but is this alone a good argument for georgia to start shooting at those people and russian soldiers? i dont think so.
and what has all that to do with russias past?
i dont like the russian government either but i can understand its reaction to this conflict. there wouldnt be russian troops if there werent georgian i think.
Quote from: Zevaka on Aug 09, 2008, 11:03 AM
Really, i'm scared what propaganda you get there in Poland. And i'm sorry to see ur sig
propaganda in Poland? So I guess you are in favour of both Putin and Medviediev, huh?
I don't want to argue with you Z. cause I like you a lot.
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 09, 2008, 11:10 AM
there wouldnt be russian troops if there werent georgian i think.
^that's russian position there
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 09, 2008, 11:10 AM
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 09, 2008, 10:49 AM
are you mad!??? are you watching Russian TV or Fox News!?
Ossetia is Georgian territory, but Russian influence spread over this piece of land. Russia wants to buttfuck another country.
Liek BORED said. Many countries were destructed because of Russia. Poland didn't even exist for 123 because Russia (and Germany and Austria) took our country. That's fucked up. I hope Georgians will do their bes and defend their country. I feel sorry for Georgian people.
and what has all that to do with russias past?
it has to do a lot because they act the same as in past.
I'm afraid of the future.
Quote from: Zevaka on Aug 09, 2008, 11:03 AM
Stalin took territory, Hitler took lives. Who's better? I think answer is obvious
Are you sure Stalin took only territory?
In addition to this, I could add the fact, that Russia technically made Lithuania the way it is today. And I am certainly not glad about that, and that is why I am running away from Russia as far as I can. Cause I know - in time Russia will strike again and take over all Baltic coast once again. And as always, nobody will care about little countries there.
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 09, 2008, 11:14 AM
I'm afraid of the future.
Exactly my thoughts. Cause I know these things ARE going to happen.
And I will agree with whodunit, Zevaka, I don't want to argue with you, cause I respect you as a person.
Politics destroys unity.
I dont even know why any of you are having this conversation with whodunit. The man is talking about Russia oppressing his country and how he hopes Georgia defends itself when in other topics he has admitted to being a coward and dodged his minute time of public service to his country. Stalin or Hitler could be coming across the border and he would probably spit on the faces of the brave men who stayed behind as he high tailed it out to safety. He is encouraging a country to defend itself against oppression when he has admitted that he wouldn't do the same. Seems like his opinion should be kind of void in this matter.
it seems russia is using the kosovo conflict to argue that ossetia should be independet or part of russia. i dont know what russians want. probablly the process of giving these dudes russian passports and a russian identity istn justyfied.
i guess every other country wouldnt find it good if some of their people start to do their own thing especially if it is some nationalistic movement or whatever.
but then, georgia attacked this ossetia which makes the situation look different.
what makes the situation even lulzier is that georgia seems to be some kind of outpost for the usa and they even have troops in iraq. reminds me of cold war.
im not really certain. all i can say is that there shouldnt be a war about every region that wants to be independet. there shouldnt be regions that wanna be independet out of some nationalistic movement. it should be asked why they wanna be independent and how to find a solution that is acceptable for all. georgia obviously did it wrong but they arent blamed for some reason.
Quote from: Zevaka on Aug 09, 2008, 11:03 AM
Stalin took territory, Hitler took lives. Who's better? I think answer is obvious
hahaha brush up on "you're" history buddy. Stalin carried out the slaughter of 60 million plus oh his OWN people.
Hitler had 6 million plus dead.
the nazi regime's crimes were just more elaborate and cynical, and had never been seen on such a scale of horror before.
QuoteThe first step must be a specification of the Holocaust and of modern anti‑Semitism. The problem should not be posed quantitatively, whether in terms of numbers of people murdered or of degree of suffering. There are too many historical examples of mass murder and of genocide. (Many more Russians than Jews, for example, were killed by the Nazis.) The question is, rather, one of qualitative specificity. Particular aspects of the extermination of European Jewry by the Nazis remain inexplicable so long as anti‑Semitism is treated as a specific example of a scapegoat strategy whose victims could very well have been members of any other group.
The Holocaust was characterized by a sense of ideological mission, by a relative lack of emotion and immediate hate (as opposed to pogroms, for example), and, most importantly, by its apparent lack of functionality. The extermination of the Jews seems not to have been a means to another end. They were not exterminated for military reasons or in the course of a violent process of land acquisition (as was the case with the American Indians and the Tasmanians). Nor did Nazi policy toward the Jews resemble their policy toward the Poles and the Russians which aimed to eradicate those segments of the population around whom resistance might crystallize in order to exploit the rest more easily as helots. Indeed, the Jews were not exterminated for any manifest "extrinsic" goal. The extermination of the Jews was not only to have been total, but was its own goal—extermination for the sake of extermination—a goal that acquired absolute priority. [2]
No functionalist explanation of the Holocaust and no scapegoat theory of anti‑Semitism can even begin to explain why, in the last years of the war, when the German forces were being crushed by the Red Army, a significant proportion of vehicles was deflected from logistical support and used to transport Jews to the gas chambers. Once the qualitative specificity of the extermination of European Jewry is recognized, it becomes clear that attempts at an explanation dealing with capitalism, racism, bureaucracy, sexual repression, or the authoritarian personality, remain far too general. The specificity of the Holocaust requires a much more determinate mediation in order even to approach its understanding.
by Moishe Postone
just because before you start to compare the shoa to other genocides.
it took me quite some time to find this text in english, so plz read it as it is some basic knowledge, too.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 09, 2008, 04:19 PM
I dont even know why any of you are having this conversation with whodunit. The man is talking about Russia oppressing his country and how he hopes Georgia defends itself when in other topics he has admitted to being a coward and dodged his minute time of public service to his country. Stalin or Hitler could be coming across the border and he would probably spit on the faces of the brave men who stayed behind as he high tailed it out to safety. He is encouraging a country to defend itself against oppression when he has admitted that he wouldn't do the same. Seems like his opinion should be kind of void in this matter.
lol @ american soldiers
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 09, 2008, 09:02 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 09, 2008, 04:19 PM
I dont even know why any of you are having this conversation with whodunit. The man is talking about Russia oppressing his country and how he hopes Georgia defends itself when in other topics he has admitted to being a coward and dodged his minute time of public service to his country. Stalin or Hitler could be coming across the border and he would probably spit on the faces of the brave men who stayed behind as he high tailed it out to safety. He is encouraging a country to defend itself against oppression when he has admitted that he wouldn't do the same. Seems like his opinion should be kind of void in this matter.
lol @ american soldiers
yeah. that a totally appropriate response. Laugh at those who do what you dont have the nuts to do. No one can see through that at all
Hmmmm The US and Israel [why are they such great buddies?] were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
I'm on Russia's side. Georgia attacks South Ossetia, Russia tells them to stop, they don't so Russia comes to help. This is all gonna lead to some crazy shit mang.
WW3 ftw!
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm The US and Israel were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
where did you get this info from?
Quotewhy are they such great buddies?]
because you and all other antisemitsts in the world make israel necessary and the usa know that
plus there are more jews in the US than Israel
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 10:57 AM
Quotewhy are they such great buddies?]
because you and all other antisemitsts in the world make israel necessary and the usa know that
So now even mentioning the word ISRAEL makes you an antisemite. Did I say anything about jews? Am I not allowed to question the validity of Israel's sketchy actions in fear of being called an anitsemite?
OH NO! I'm an antisemite! *gasp* Please.
gota link for that info man?
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 01:30 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 10:57 AM
Quotewhy are they such great buddies?]
because you and all other antisemitsts in the world make israel necessary and the usa know that
So now even mentioning the word ISRAEL makes you an antisemite. Did I say anything about jews? Am I not allowed to question the validity of Israel's sketchy actions in fear of being called an anitsemite?
OH NO! I'm an antisemite! *gasp* Please.
your conspiracy theories combined with questioning israel make a pretty obvoius mix.
i wouldnt call everyone an antisemit who is critizising israel. that would be silly.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm The US and Israel were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
where did you get this info from?
i can confirm this information. georgian military has been trained with the help of the us military as saakashwili has been supported by bush.
but i guess it would be false to see the usa behind the attacks on ossetia has the relationships became worse in the last years.
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 02:25 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm The US and Israel were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
where did you get this info from?
i can confirm this information. georgian military has been trained with the help of the us military as saakashwili has been supported by bush.
but i guess it would be false to see the usa behind the attacks on ossetia has the relationships became worse in the last years.
I just wana read an article to see who is doing to training and stuff
i would suggest read something about georgian foreign politics.
u know i think you have better sources for military stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Georgia
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm The US and Israel [why are they such great buddies?] were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
interesting ...hmmm
Quote from: aenemic on Aug 10, 2008, 08:47 AM
WW3 ftw!
come on... I'm from another country but I have to say I don't like the idea of a war even if it is far away from me.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 10, 2008, 02:32 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 02:25 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm The US and Israel were in Georgia recently, training and doing other shenanigans. Georgia is north of Iran...hmmm...I think we're getting somewhere.
where did you get this info from?
i can confirm this information. georgian military has been trained with the help of the us military as saakashwili has been supported by bush.
but i guess it would be false to see the usa behind the attacks on ossetia has the relationships became worse in the last years.
I just wana read an article to see who is doing to training and stuff
Sorry I was at work all day... I'll find an article.
EDIT:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/07/15/6162566-ap.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/07/200871515107741998.html
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/us-runs-military-exercise-around-georgia-conflict
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 01:57 PM
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 10, 2008, 01:30 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 10, 2008, 10:57 AM
Quotewhy are they such great buddies?]
because you and all other antisemitsts in the world make israel necessary and the usa know that
So now even mentioning the word ISRAEL makes you an antisemite. Did I say anything about jews? Am I not allowed to question the validity of Israel's sketchy actions in fear of being called an anitsemite?
OH NO! I'm an antisemite! *gasp* Please.
your conspiracy theories combined with questioning israel make a pretty obvoius mix.
i wouldnt call everyone an antisemit who is critizising israel. that would be silly.
I just don't like Zionist jews.
you could explain urself a little more. anti zionism is a lame excuse for a lot of antisemitists. those people mostly havent good arguments against the state israel. they claim that israel is causing all the trouble in the middle east or the whole world and the igonore that antisemitism all over the world makes israel essential for jews.
israel has not been created out of happyness but out of hatred against jews all over the world.
ask yourself y u offend israel instead of all those fascist regimes that sorround it. iran where it is now disussed wether or not its a fair punishment to cut off the hands of thieves. terrorists that are supportet by those states.
do you really think they attack israel because israel is doing such a great harm to them?
have u ever seen israel on a map. its not like it is covering 90% of the middle east.
y did you come up with israel when this thread is about georgia and russia. this is what i mean with latent antisemitism in another thread here.
man i know its such a common thing among leftists to oppose the usa, israel but as far as i remember being left is also about opposing fascism, anti-emanzipation, antisemitism, sexism etc.
Quote
you could explain urself a little more. anti zionism is a lame excuse for a lot of antisemitists. those people mostly havent good arguments against the state israel. they claim that israel is causing all the trouble in the middle east or the whole world and the igonore that antisemitism all over the world makes israel essential for jews.
israel has not been created out of happyness but out of hatred against jews all over the world.
I don't like how Israel wants an Arab-free country. They're doing the same shit that Germany did back in the late 30/early 40s, but not as intense. Why is it ok for them to treat the Arabs like shit? If they want to live there, why not? Why does Israel get this free ticket of choosing who gets to stay in their country [I'm not saying that every citizen of Isarel is anti-arab, just the government] Get where I'm going? I could care less abou their religion, I don't like religion at all. I just don't see how they can get away with the shit they do, yet other countries get blasted on by the UN [*throwup*].
Quoteask yourself y u offend israel instead of all those fascist regimes that sorround it. iran where it is now disussed wether or not its a fair punishment to cut off the hands of thieves.
I could care less what laws those countries have. Just don't steal and you won't get your hand cut off. t
Quotey did you come up with israel when this thread is about georgia and russia. this is what i mean with latent antisemitism in another thread here.
Because the USA and Israel have very powerful military presence. We back them up. A whole lot. I brought up that country because it deals with GEORGIA getting help from these other 2 countries.
Quoteman i know its such a common thing among leftists to oppose the usa, israel but as far as i remember being left is also about opposing fascism, anti-emanzipation, antisemitism, sexism etc.
I'm neither left nor right. Divide and conquer is one of the NWO's great strategies.
I don't like Russia's acts and government and behaviour that much, but it's true that Georgians ask for it when sending all they had in Ossetia... And even though Russia's reaction was way disproportionate, Georgia only harvested what they were looking for...
Now they're fucked and probably have lost Ossetia (and maybe Abkhazia) for good...
"American says US and Georgia to answer for violence"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNHJM_W8wsk
Immediate Response 2008
"Soldiers and Marines from the United States, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Ukraine conduct joint training exercise "Immediate Response 2008" at Vaziani Military Base in the Republic of Georgia and the surrounding area. The state of Georgia is represented by the 1st Battalion, 121st Infantry, headquartered in Winder, as well as members of the 122nd Rear Operations Center from Glenville."
click for pictures
http://gadod.net/archives/v/Vaziani/
EDIT: I apologize for mentioning Israel prepping Georgia. I knew I read the article somewhere, but since I can't find it at the time, I take back that statement.
wow. this is pretty crappy.
*and "Nailec" -i'm not trying to be mean but you really need to stop badgering people about anti-semitism. you are condemning people for things they are not even saying. i think your views on anti-semitism are extremely distorted and you should probably stop because your giving others a hard time.
Israel sucks.
Quoteyou are condemning people for things they are not even saying
man i know they all wouldnt kill jews or blame jews for poisoning the well like in the middle ages.
it is all about an argumentation that is capable to lead into manifest/open jew hatred
instead of telling me im wrong you should attack my arguments.
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/EuropeanAttitudesPoll-10-02.pdf
i mean wtf. 68% of germans think that jews talk to much about what happened to them in the holocaust (page 18)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism
i just found this one and there is a lot of english sources and texts.
Russias dollar just went to shit
spread love not war
make groceries
not war
'Oil, Israel and Iran' Among Factors that Led to Georgia War
by Gl Ronen
(IsraelNN.com) Analysis of the war in Georgia points to a fight over a major oil route as the main reason for hostilities, but also to an Israeli connection.
Channel 2's expert on the Muslim world, Ehud Ya'ari, told viewers of the central evening newscast that Russia and neighboring countries were vying for control of a strategic oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean. This relatively new pipeline passes through Azerbaijan and Georgia to Turkey and is the only pipeline between Asia and Europe that does not pass through Russia or Iran. Israel is expecting to receive oil and gas through the pipeline.
By using the ethnic Russian population in South Ossetia to destabilize Georgia, Russia was making a play for the pipeline, he said.
The Israeli Connection
The Georgian move against South Ossetia was motivated by political considerations having to do with Israel and Iran, according to Nfc. Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili decided to assert control over the breakaway region in order to force Israel to reconsider its decision to cut back its support for Georgia's military.
Russian and Georgian media reported several days ago that Israel decided to stop its support for Georgia after Moscow made it clear to Jerusalem and Washington that Russia would respond to continued aid for Georgia by selling advanced anti-aircraft systems to Syria and Iran.
Hundreds of Israeli defense experts are reportedly in Georgia and Israel's military industries have been upgrading Georgia's air force, training its infantry and selling the country unmanned aerial vehicles and advanced artillery systems.
Former minister Ronny Milo was reportedly among the leading Israeli middlemen in the arms deals with Georgia and Brig.-Gen. Gal Hirsch has been training army units through a company he owns.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127135
not at all surprising. georgia could be a usefull ally or outpost for the war on iran.
the more important info is that the pipeline is indeed the only one that can transport oil and doesnt go throug arabian countries or russia.
if it becomes obvious that russia doesnt want to help the ossetian people but to control this pipeline respective whole georgia, i will see this conflict with other eyes while i was more pro russia at the beginning.
till now. there is too much propaganda on both sides to believe anyone. each is accusing the other for genocide and now georgia claims that russian troops are on their way to Tiflis
lol kids. The US is in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pull out a map and tell me if you really think we would need to have yet another entrance into Iran.
they dont need it but maybe they want it.
im gonna try to stay out of this one because i dont know what to believe when it comes to this stuff and war is all too scary to consider but its happening right now.
phew. this is really gross. its really a shame to the soul of human beings
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
68% of germans think that jews talk to much about what happened to them in the holocaust (page 18)
I actually think the same... Fuck living in the past, everyone needs to move on at some point and stop to keep on rehearsing what happened before... It's called to advance...
There is a balance. You need to remember the past so that the mistakes of the past are not made again. However you cant assume that everyone in the present is the same as the people of the past. Just like how some black people wont let go of the whole slavery and racism thing. It was horrible. The world learned a valuable lesson that it should never forget. However, its over. Lesson learned. So get over it already.
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 05:51 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
68% of germans think that jews talk to much about what happened to them in the holocaust (page 18)
I actually think the same... Fuck living in the past, everyone needs to move on at some point and stop to keep on rehearsing what happened before... It's called to advance...
+ what they do building the defense wall... it's pretty much the same what Germans did in Warsaw with Jewish ghetto.
Russia just finished operation and stoped fire. Let's wait Georgean reaction.
Russia should have just told the world to go fuck themselves and drop that hammer hard on georgia. When people fuck with you, you have to make sure they never want to do that shit again.
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 05:51 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
68% of germans think that jews talk to much about what happened to them in the holocaust (page 18)
I actually think the same... Fuck living in the past, everyone needs to move on at some point and stop to keep on rehearsing what happened before... It's called to advance...
the point is. actually nobody is talking too much about the past. this is just wrong cognition. i totally agree that we should all should do our best for he future. but history should be always kepts in mind.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 10:11 AM
Russia should have just told the world to go fuck themselves and drop that hammer hard on georgia. When people fuck with you, you have to make sure they never want to do that shit again.
Well, that's basically what they did...
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 12, 2008, 07:56 AM
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 05:51 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
68% of germans think that jews talk to much about what happened to them in the holocaust (page 18)
I actually think the same... Fuck living in the past, everyone needs to move on at some point and stop to keep on rehearsing what happened before... It's called to advance...
+ what they do building the defense wall... it's pretty much the same what Germans did in Warsaw with Jewish ghetto.
now that is classical anti-semitic argumentation. making the jews the victims and ignoring everything they have tried and the trey to do for palestine, the cowardly attacks on jewish civilians, the wars that israel had to fought to defend its country. just read a book about the history before u repeat anything that nazis tell you.
i mean of course this wall is not very lucky as it doesnt actually pretend terrorism and just gives pain to palestines. but making a one-line post that shall explain the whole situation is just so dumb that it hurts.
oh and the comparision to the nazi-regime? are u fucking kidding me? germans did to have all jews on a small room. you really think jews one day wanna slaughter all of palestine. an arab has more rights in israel than in any other arabian country. now what you think would happen if a jew would walk through iran?
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 10:11 AM
Russia should have just told the world to go fuck themselves and drop that hammer hard on georgia. When people fuck with you, you have to make sure they never want to do that shit again.
hell yeah! let's do it american style!
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/387036495_afab264cf3.jpg?v=0)
shut the fuck up you pussy. I guess strength is just something you wouldn't understand. you wana talk about history? Lets talk about how Poland couldn't protect itself when it needed to. So what did they do? they cried and cried about how Britain and France wouldn't come to their rescue ( pre WW2 ) Then the super powers of the world did come to help ( including the US you forgetful fucker ) and defeated Hitler. And now you are talking shit. So dont even try to lecture other people on remembering the past.
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 11:23 AM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 10:11 AM
Russia should have just told the world to go fuck themselves and drop that hammer hard on georgia. When people fuck with you, you have to make sure they never want to do that shit again.
Well, that's basically what they did...
not really. They showed restraint in my opinion. And they are letting international pressure influence them.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 12:39 PM
shut the fuck up you pussy. I guess strength is just something you wouldn't understand. you wana talk about history? Lets talk about how Poland couldn't protect itself when it needed to. So what did they do? they cried and cried about how Britain and France wouldn't come to their rescue ( pre WW2 ) Then the super powers of the world did come to help ( including the US you forgetful fucker ) and defeated Hitler. And now you are talking shit. So dont even try to lecture other people on remembering the past.
I've never neglected the fact that US helped to win the WW2. I'm interested in history and I know the facts. but you act as if power was the only answer to any problem.
it seems you don't know history. we were buttfucked by Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta. we were buttfucked by Russia numerous times. should we, should the world trust them!? no way!
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 12, 2008, 12:43 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 12:39 PM
shut the fuck up you pussy. I guess strength is just something you wouldn't understand. you wana talk about history? Lets talk about how Poland couldn't protect itself when it needed to. So what did they do? they cried and cried about how Britain and France wouldn't come to their rescue ( pre WW2 ) Then the super powers of the world did come to help ( including the US you forgetful fucker ) and defeated Hitler. And now you are talking shit. So dont even try to lecture other people on remembering the past.
I've never neglected the fact that US helped to win the WW2. I'm interested in history and I know the facts. but you act as if power was the only answer to any problem.
it seems you don't know history. we were buttfucked by Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta. we were buttfucked by Russia numerous times. should we, should the world trust them!? no way!
I know that Poland perceives it was fucked. I actually have no idea what. But a couple months ago I went to a web site that was all about how bad Poland got fucked in Pre WW2 and during WW2. I think the only reason I read it all is because I am really curious about history. And I hate not knowing shit. And I didn't know a dam thing about it.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 01:02 PM
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 12, 2008, 12:43 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 12:39 PM
shut the fuck up you pussy. I guess strength is just something you wouldn't understand. you wana talk about history? Lets talk about how Poland couldn't protect itself when it needed to. So what did they do? they cried and cried about how Britain and France wouldn't come to their rescue ( pre WW2 ) Then the super powers of the world did come to help ( including the US you forgetful fucker ) and defeated Hitler. And now you are talking shit. So dont even try to lecture other people on remembering the past.
I've never neglected the fact that US helped to win the WW2. I'm interested in history and I know the facts. but you act as if power was the only answer to any problem.
it seems you don't know history. we were buttfucked by Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta. we were buttfucked by Russia numerous times. should we, should the world trust them!? no way!
I know that Poland perceives it was fucked. I actually have no idea what. But a couple months ago I went to a web site that was all about how bad Poland got fucked in Pre WW2 and during WW2. I think the only reason I read it all is because I am really curious about history. And I hate not knowing shit. And I didn't know a dam thing about it.
ha! ok, let's end this stupid talk and be friends.
I still like america. I see it's advantages and it's disadvantages. I still would love to visit US :)
sounds good. Im all for giving and getting shit. But I might get a bit defensive when people start attacking the service that I am very proud of. But yeah, im not about to get all patriotic on your or anything. Just saying is all.
War sucks. I cant really think of a single necessary reason to START a war. Now once another country has started a war with you. There is no other choice. But as far as being the country who makes the first move. I really cant think of a single reason why it is necessary. So it sucks that the leaders of the world are not more wise and dynamic than to have to resort to war.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 01:28 PM
sounds good. Im all for giving and getting shit. But I might get a bit defensive when people start attacking the service that I am very proud of. But yeah, im not about to get all patriotic on your or anything. Just saying is all.
War sucks. I cant really think of a single necessary reason to START a war. Now once another country has started a war with you. There is no other choice. But as far as being the country who makes the first move. I really cant think of a single reason why it is necessary. So it sucks that the leaders of the world are not more wise and dynamic than to have to resort to war.
amen.
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 11:22 AM
the point is. actually nobody is talking too much about the past. this is just wrong cognition. i totally agree that we should all should do our best for he future. but history should be always kepts in mind.
Of course history should always be remembered, but you shouldn't use history all the time to take advantages over anyone else... Sure people fucked up badly over your minority in the past, but it's past... So as long everyone remembers it (which it's the case), get over it already, and live not as part of your "oppressed minority", but as a citizen of the world, equal to any other human being around...
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 12:41 PM
not really. They showed restraint in my opinion. And they are letting international pressure influence them.
Well, I don't really think they did that much.
Or at least they should have more... I will fall in the "anti-american" cliche, but when you say they are letting international pressure influence them, well fuck me, of course they should do. Same old discussion we already had together (and on which we still won't agree, but hey, where would be the fun otherwise...), but no country can act anymore as if it were alone... 1) We are all too intricated.
2) We are a fucking same species
3) Countries concept sucks balls, and is not adapted anymore to the world we leave in...
4) and just for the sake of it : fuck nationalism... That pisses me off when I see all these chinese people here even in HK where they are not fond of Mainland China supposedly... But these days, they all are wearing fucking red shit, wave china flags all around, cheer like mad whenever they see anyone chinese on the Olympics... Sucks ass.... And for some reason USA are the same, and in my opinion this kind of nationalist behaviour is the cause of wars...
I've said it before, I will say it again, and I'm gonna say it again now : we are 1 same species / people, country and nationality is a random shit that happened to you when you were born, same as having blue eyes, being tall, blonde, black, etc. That's not worth any fucking kind of pride... Pride should be deserved by some action...
/end of rant
Quote
4) and just for the sake of it : fuck nationalism... That pisses me off when I see all these chinese people here even in HK where they are not fond of Mainland China supposedly... But these days, they all are wearing fucking red shit, wave china flags all around, cheer like mad whenever they see anyone chinese on the Olympics... Sucks ass.... And for some reason USA are the same, and in my opinion this kind of nationalist behaviour is the cause of wars...
I've said it before, I will say it again, and I'm gonna say it again now : we are 1 same species / people, country and nationality is a random shit that happened to you when you were born, same as having blue eyes, being tall, blonde, black, etc. That's not worth any fucking kind of pride... Pride should be deserved by some action...
/end of rant
germany during the world cup and euro cup would have made u vomit :D
chinese have no reason to wave their flag. they should be ashamed of their nation
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 02:37 PM
germany during the world cup and euro cup would have made u vomit :D
Actually that's more than probable.... :)
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 02:37 PM
chinese have no reason to wave their flag. they should be ashamed of their nation
Sorry, but can you let me know what you know about China please ? I'm not talking about what you saw on the TV, or read on your newspapers ?
Do you know anything about the culture of people here ? On what facts do you base your analysis for saying they should be ashamed of their nation ?
Sure there are some fucked up things there (I'm mainly talking about environment), but I would really love you to give me your detailed vision on the question...
my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people
yeah of course i am comparing to western democracies and that is probablly not fair.
but the validity of human rights should not be disputed.
im convinced that u can have a good time in china but only as long as your opinion fits to the leaders.
when i ask my parents who theiry life was in the DDR, they almost only tell me good things about it because they were no rebells. objective history sourced draw a pretty other image of the ddr than my parents do.
the unity of chinese people is dangerous.
"An emancipated society, on the other hand, would not be a unitary state, but the realization of universality in the reconciliation of differences."
what i know about the culture is wushu and fast food that the people here call chinese :D
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
yeah of course i am comparing to western democracies and that is probablly not fair.
Indeed, it's not...
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
but the validity of human rights should not be disputed.
Indeed as well, it should not... The path to attain it can be though, and free democracy is in my opinion definitely not the best way in every occasion...
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
im convinced that u can have a good time in china but only as long as your opinion fits to the leaders.
That was not what I was talking about at all actually, but hell yeah, you can have a hell of a time in China... :)
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
the unity of chinese people is dangerous.
Why would that be ?
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
"An emancipated society, on the other hand, would not be a unitary state, but the realization of universality in the reconciliation of differences."
True, but please read there above, and consider what would be the best and safest way to attain this state of emancipated society.
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 12, 2008, 03:04 PM
what i know about the culture is wushu and fast food that the people here call chinese :D
There you go... It's actually pretty impossible to judge China without having at least been there, or better lived there.... Culture and history is so different that you just cannot compare to what you know, and deduce a valid opinion from it....
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 03:03 PM
my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people
Hey, ask her not to come to HK, I may end banging her you know.... :)
What's she doing there ?
ok, i'm getting sick of all the back and forth:
- As far as the holocaust and slavery (and the poland/russia thing), it is something that the decendants of the people that went through it will never forget or let be forgotten. the influences that caused those oppressions are still in place (albeit in a muted form) and until they go away, the people that suffered and the kin of those that suffered will continue to suffer
- We are truly not getting the whole story on the Georgia/Russia thing. there is a lot of misinformation being spread about what Georgia and Russia are really up to. it seems that Georgia is exagerating the Russian response and it seems the Russians may not have been totally justified in going in in the first place
- Nationalism has its place. If you don't feel pride in where you came from, then i feel sorry for you. True in the years to come boundries may fall and we may start to see ourselves as one, but the customs and mores of our cultures will never die. its why Americans still identify with their countries of origin even though they may be generations removed from that country and have no connection to that country other than thats were they originally came from
and as far as trey's sister, i already beat you to it tarkil so enjoy my sloppy seconds ;)
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 03:20 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 03:03 PM
my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people
Hey, ask her not to come to HK, I may end banging her you know.... :)
What's she doing there ?
lol shes a missionary.
I would pay you if you were able to convince you to have sex with her. Shes almost 25 and is still a virgin ( yes, I know that she is and im not just some disillusioned brother) Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful. She just believes in waiting for marriage.
So if you sir ( or Josh ) were able to get her to loosen up a but. It would be amazing.
lol, this is funny!
Tarkil, what do you do in HK?
Quote from: goldpony on Aug 12, 2008, 09:26 PM
If you don't feel pride in where you came from, then i feel sorry for you.
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 02:29 PM
nationality is a random shit that happened to you when you were born, same as having blue eyes, being tall, blonde, black, etc. That's not worth any fucking kind of pride... Pride should be deserved by some action...
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 10:45 PM
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 03:20 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 03:03 PM
my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people
Hey, ask her not to come to HK, I may end banging her you know.... :)
What's she doing there ?
lol shes a missionary.
I would pay you if you were able to convince you to have sex with her. Shes almost 25 and is still a virgin ( yes, I know that she is and im not just some disillusioned brother) Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful. She just believes in waiting for marriage.
So if you sir ( or Josh ) were able to get her to loosen up a but. It would be amazing.
I'm considering making it a mission to fuck your sisters brains out.
no offense. ;)
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/5b/Georgiabush.jpg)
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 13, 2008, 06:50 AM
Quote from: goldpony on Aug 12, 2008, 09:26 PM
If you don't feel pride in where you came from, then i feel sorry for you.
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 02:29 PM
nationality is a random shit that happened to you when you were born, same as having blue eyes, being tall, blonde, black, etc. That's not worth any fucking kind of pride... Pride should be deserved by some action...
nationalism is the death of the individual.
we are all innately communist, -but once someone adopts a "nationalist" stance they beg for tyranny.
in philosophy, one who is proud in this way is considered a (non-life-affirming) individual. one who extinguishes "will-to-power" and the "free-spirit", in trade for false security from heirarchies outside of the herd.
so basically, as i see it, nationalism is "voluntary slavery" to an "ideal" of "pride" and "power-form".
people IMO follow the same horrible guideline when it comes to their "beliefs" allowing the "God concept" to take reign in their lives.
we are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.
any sense of loyalty to a power (nation/government/religion) which is not deserved is the first step to "slavery" and "death", because it disracts the "
natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).
like i say, "stop pretending, Freedom, -is not having to choose"
i srongly believe this and that is why i do not vote.
some may condemn me, but its a stringent belief.
Jesus believed the same.
true, where you came from is a random act, but having pride for the accomplishments of your country is nothing to scoff at. people that came before me died to uphold the ideals that gave me what i have and made me who i am today. i have to honor that. while it may seem like a form of mental slavery, i see it as a way to honor those who died to uphold the fredoms i enjoy today
right you can honor individual deeds but the concept of pride for a whole country just fails because of the dark times of many countries.
@ wither-i: like marx you dont see the dialectics of freedom and equality. this is what i would say to someone who holds the idea for freedom a little bit too high imho.
Quote from: aenemic on Aug 13, 2008, 09:23 AM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 10:45 PM
Quote from: tarkil on Aug 12, 2008, 03:20 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 12, 2008, 03:03 PM
my sister is a pretty smart chick. and she lives in china right now and loves the people
Hey, ask her not to come to HK, I may end banging her you know.... :)
What's she doing there ?
lol shes a missionary.
I would pay you if you were able to convince you to have sex with her. Shes almost 25 and is still a virgin ( yes, I know that she is and im not just some disillusioned brother) Its not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful. She just believes in waiting for marriage.
So if you sir ( or Josh ) were able to get her to loosen up a but. It would be amazing.
I'm considering making it a mission to fuck your sisters brains out.
no offense. ;)
none taken
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 09:36 PM
right you can honor individual deeds but the concept of pride for a whole country just fails because of the dark times of many countries.
@ wither-i: like marx you dont see the dialectics of freedom and equality. this is what i would say to someone who holds the idea for freedom a little bit too high imho.
sorry but this is brutally absurd.
your telling me that there is a bounds to "freedom"!
you gotta be kidding me.
you must not understand the philosophy you are reading.
i think you may be misconstruing the "freedom" im talking about. your talking about "political freedom".
i know thats basically what we are discussing, but the broader issue is about how to deal with these matters at hand of war and such..
if people can learn to deal with their issues (as an individual or an entire country), through terms of "True Freedom"
(the kind your fucking born with)besides this sociopathic ideal of
civility under law, and
freedom within a bounds, the world may better know PEACE.
but until then we will kill ourselves desperately discussing the lives and fates of others, by logistical procurement of "right", and "freedom", and "equality".
focus on love.
bless.
Quotewe are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.
is this the concept of freedom ur talking about?
Quotebecause it disracts the "natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).
and these are your thoughts on what happened to freedom by creating governments?
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 14, 2008, 01:16 AM
Quotewe are individual people with individual dreams and choices to create our lives how we please.
is this the concept of freedom ur talking about?
Quotebecause it disracts the "natural-born-free-spirit" to a life of order and sameness, and control and oppression, rather than instilling "free thought" and "free creation", (free-of-form).
and these are your thoughts on what happened to freedom by creating governments?
yes.
yes.
theres nothing to it. no logistics behind it, just existence.
perhaps there is this perfect freedom that doesnt discriminate others persons.
but until we havnt had a REAL communism we will never know if this kind of freedom exists. we just can not proove it. its an assumption, nothing more.
ahhhhhh true communism, a piece of utopia just for me! :)
I think the two of you must be high. I respect your intelligence and education and everything. But are you joking?
The reason government was created is because its natural. From day one there were clans, and leaders, and the weak. Its just the natural order of life. The genetically strong of certain races and regions protected and provided for the weak of their fellow race and region because they were familiar. And with the progression of time we realized how stupid it is to fight and feud over culture and race. But there is still, and always will be the strong and the weak.
The words " we hold these truths the be self evident, that all men were created equal...." Can only be true because of government. Jefferson was a student of Locke who recognized the fact that it is a kill or be killed, survival of the fittest world without government. But once government is created, survival of the fittest no longer applies. At that point we are equal because the government provides a basis and insurance for the equal treatment of all regardless of race, gender, creed, or social status. If you take that away, whats stopping someone from just coming up to you and forcefully taking away your freedoms? Literally enslaving you, just because they can. There is always someone bigger and bader. That's why government was formed. To protect and serve the people. To guarantee life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Without this, you are no more free than an antelope grazing before a pride of Lions. Good luck with that.
These forms of government were created as an enhancement from what we had before. Think about how much of an improvement democracy is over feudalism. And maybe a new bigger and better system emerges. This is why Jefferson believed in regular revolutions. He foresaw that governments would become corrupt and not serve their purpose no matter how perfect they were at the conception. So yeah, a lot of governments are fucked up today ( the US for example ) but this is where nationalism comes into play. Pride in your country, therefore the refusal to watch it burn. Refusing to let the good name and reputation of your country be dragged through the mudd because of imperialism and capitalism. The refusal to allow special treatment and corruption happen within the government. It ultimately makes the world a better place. Instead of people just migrating to whoever is doing it the best at the moment. If everyone just loves their nation , takes pride in it, and works tirelessly to make it the best place it can possibly be. The whole world could become 1st world. But people don't. People get bitter and allow their nations to become weak. This causes those with pride to become disgruntled and call for change. And the easiest way to see change is through violence.
If everyone was as educated and idealistic as you two seem to be, but took as much pride in their nation as I do. The world would be an awesome place.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 14, 2008, 03:40 PM
long text
hey i never said i share withers concept of freedom. havnt read your whole text because have no time for this now. i dont believe in this type of ideal freedom that shall rise when real communism would exist. communists say that egoism and such are created through society and in an emancipated society (that never existet, there has never been a real communism in the world) there wouldnt be hatred amongst men.
i dont believe in that. i think that morality needs laws that cut freedom.
sorry var that i havnt read your text and probablly wrote the same as you. i really have no time now ;)
Im just saying that true communism would never work. There will always be people who are better than other. People who are smarter, better looking, bigger, stronger, just better. It's a fact of life. True equality across the board is impossible.
Plus when it was being conceived. They didn't anticipate things like credit and the middle class being able to imitate the rich. People have the ability to live WAY beyond their means these days. It has allowed for people to get a taste of being upper class. Or at least makes the prospect of being upper class more obtainable. Do you really expect people to just lay down and accept a fraction of the portion they know they could have all for the sake of an ideal? No, not happening.
oh and its ok. I know that no one actually reads the shit that I write
Pretty much I said that being 100% free without a social contract means that you can do whatever you want, whenever you want. But others may do whatever they want to you, whenever they want. It's a vicious cycle in which you have no protection. Survival of the fittest, hope you are the most fit.
And that Nationalism should improve a country. Its citizens should refuse to let their beloved country turn to shit. It shouldn't just be that you blindly follow whatever your country is doing.
i agree with you variable.
i note all the time how we (humans) are "innately communist" through our instinctive communal tendencies.
basically here is how it is.
neandertal man did not survive because "lack of communication". neandertal's vocal chords were placed to far down on their throats to pronounce vowels, and were unable to derive certain annunciations.
when "cromagnon man" (modern homosapiens) came along, they were not fit for "hard" survival like the neandertals but in time learned of the ability to speak language in vowels annunciation and syllable breaks and such...
this enabled modern man to communicate and problem solve with their kind. this communication layed the staple of how community and family are built. better problem solvers became more prodominant figures of the tribe or family, and positions of heirarchy developed with this.
cromagnon man and all other "early homosapien counterparts" also developed the need of community and group coorespondence, because of their "eyes" both being set on the front of their face. unlike most other mammals who have eyes on either side of their head, primates and homosapiens alike developed the need to have a "group eye" or a watch on thier surroundings in order to protect their natural niche.
this made us codependent on one another for survival, rendering our genetic makeup to support this survival.
HOWEVER, in turn with this human beings became more "territorial" and "protective" over the members of their "herd".
WHICH, enabled them to share compassion with and for their neighbor.
LOVE.
and thats what government misses. that tribal connection. in this, we are born of a communist nature.
and in theory with this COMMUNISM = UTOPIA.
but as i see it happening, -when you involve a "communal umbrella" as big as government, you lose the sincerity in your tribe and you begin to WAR with your brother!!
the funny thing is (although i HATE political affiliation!) -i would be considered a "conserative" more than anything else,
because i believe that "family" is the greatest "utility" of man, but in repose, we seem to be extinguishing this value, and it has all become about "the service of you're country" which i do not agree with.
I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?
Quote from: Crazylegs on Aug 14, 2008, 07:27 PM
I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?
well, they claim Georgia attacked them.
but it's really because of the oil.
read the news.
Poland and US sign missile shield deal
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/15/poland.us.shield/index.html
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
hey chicka bum bum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jvJ9U-Ej8
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
i hoped she's on the left, cause the girl on the right
=
(http://www.tic.is/thumb.php?file=horse_teeth_1.jpg&w=450&h=500)
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 17, 2008, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
i hoped she's on the left, cause the girl on the right
=
(http://www.tic.is/thumb.php?file=horse_teeth_1.jpg&w=450&h=500)
now i hope she is the one on the right. coz variable would totally haunt you down for this.
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 18, 2008, 12:25 AM
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 17, 2008, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
i hoped she's on the left, cause the girl on the right
=
(http://www.tic.is/thumb.php?file=horse_teeth_1.jpg&w=450&h=500)
now i hope she is the one on the right. coz variable would totally haunt you down for this.
lol
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 15, 2008, 10:50 AM
Quote from: Crazylegs on Aug 14, 2008, 07:27 PM
I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?
well, they claim Georgia attacked them.
but it's really because of the oil.
read the news.
But why would Russia even claim to Georgia attacking them? Because GEORGIA attacked SOUTH OSSETIA FIRST. You can't sit there and say it was ok for Georgia to attack South Ossetia the way they did. A small, independent country [state?] that did nothing to deserve what happened to them.
Awesome. Reuters caught with fake propaganda photos for Georgia.
http://zbs-zombies.blogspot.com/
[google translator should work]
Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Aug 18, 2008, 02:09 AM
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 15, 2008, 10:50 AM
Quote from: Crazylegs on Aug 14, 2008, 07:27 PM
I haven't updated myself very much on this conflict and i can't be bothered to read this whole thread. What are Russia's motives in this?
well, they claim Georgia attacked them.
but it's really because of the oil.
read the news.
But why would Russia even claim to Georgia attacking them? Because GEORGIA attacked SOUTH OSSETIA FIRST. You can't sit there and say it was ok for Georgia to attack South Ossetia the way they did. A small, independent country [state?] that did nothing to deserve what happened to them.
for once I agree with you 100%
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
aw, she's cute.
Quote from: whodunit? on Aug 17, 2008, 10:50 PM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
i hoped she's on the left, cause the girl on the right
=
(http://www.tic.is/thumb.php?file=horse_teeth_1.jpg&w=450&h=500)
yeah, that chick is nasty.
Quote from: aenemic on Aug 18, 2008, 09:46 AM
Quote from: Variable on Aug 17, 2008, 03:39 AM
Quote from: Nailec on Aug 13, 2008, 11:22 AM
QuoteIts not that she is ugly, she is actually beautiful.
pics or ur lying!
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/190/78/9204572/n9204572_36105706_6413.jpg) shes on the left
aw, she's cute.
and thanks. Im just hoping to be an uncle some day
Send her over here dude, I'll make that happen... Well, actually not really, but I'll give her some training... ;)
http://russianfun.net/interesting-galleries/vanga-predictions-for-this-world/
random link, do not take it too seriously.
just, well, read this and when I saw three symbol word "WW3", I understood how afraid of war and destruction I am. And there, I live in country, which is super close to Russia, and always been in Russian agression direction. In three years I am moving out from Lithuania, to live in Ireland.. well, I hope the end of the world through the human wars will not come that soon..
just imagining all the world in fights, nuclear weaponry, chemical weapons.. hell knows what else is out there. and then again I notice two things:
1. people are fucking retards. after each and every world war they criticize themselves about the stupidity of war, and yet again come back to same roots, roots of human being - the destruction of things.
2. this happens just because people are too bored while they're living in peace, so they say, hey, what the hell, lets make some wars about money, power, oil and other shitty useless things!
screw you, humanity, i am going home!
Quote from: bored on Aug 18, 2008, 11:02 AM
people are too bored while they're living in peace,
like i say.
people don't want peace.
Quote from: Financial TimesWhy I had to recognise Georgia's breakaway regions
By Dmitry Medvedev
Published: August 26 2008 18:48 | Last updated: August 26 2008 18:48
On Tuesday Russia recognised the independence of the territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It was not a step taken lightly, or without full consideration of the consequences. But all possible outcomes had to be weighed against a sober understanding of the situation – the histories of the Abkhaz and Ossetian peoples, their freely expressed desire for independence, the tragic events of the past weeks and international precedents for such a move.
Not all of the world's nations have their own statehood. Many exist happily within boundaries shared with other nations. The Russian Federation is an example of largely harmonious coexistence by many dozens of nations and nationalities. But some nations find it impossible to live under the tutelage of another. Relations between nations living "under one roof" need to be handled with the utmost sensitivity.
After the collapse of communism, Russia reconciled itself to the "loss" of 14 former Soviet republics, which became states in their own right, even though some 25m Russians were left stranded in countries no longer their own. Some of those nations were unable to treat their own minorities with the respect they deserved. Georgia immediately stripped its "autonomous regions" of Abkhazia and South Ossetia of their autonomy.
Can you imagine what it was like for the Abkhaz people to have their university in Sukhumi closed down by the Tbilisi government on the grounds that they allegedly had no proper language or history or culture and so did not need a university? The newly independent Georgia inflicted a vicious war on its minority nations, displacing thousands of people and sowing seeds of discontent that could only grow. These were tinderboxes, right on Russia's doorstep, which Russian peacekeepers strove to keep from igniting.
But the west, ignoring the delicacy of the situation, unwittingly (or wittingly) fed the hopes of the South Ossetians and Abkhazians for freedom. They clasped to their bosom a Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, whose first move was to crush the autonomy of another region, Adjaria, and made no secret of his intention to squash the Ossetians and Abkhazians.
Meanwhile, ignoring Russia's warnings, western countries rushed to recognise Kosovo's illegal declaration of independence from Serbia. We argued consistently that it would be impossible, after that, to tell the Abkhazians and Ossetians (and dozens of other groups around the world) that what was good for the Kosovo Albanians was not good for them. In international relations, you cannot have one rule for some and another rule for others.
Seeing the warning signs, we persistently tried to persuade the Georgians to sign an agreement on the non-use of force with the Ossetians and Abkhazians. Mr Saakashvili refused. On the night of August 7-8 we found out why.
Only a madman could have taken such a gamble. Did he believe Russia would stand idly by as he launched an all-out assault on the sleeping city of Tskhinvali, murdering hundreds of peaceful civilians, most of them Russian citizens? Did he believe Russia would stand by as his "peacekeeping" troops fired on Russian comrades with whom they were supposed to be preventing trouble in South Ossetia?
Russia had no option but to crush the attack to save lives. This was not a war of our choice. We have no designs on Georgian territory. Our troops entered Georgia to destroy bases from which the attack was launched and then left. We restored the peace but could not calm the fears and aspirations of the South Ossetian and Abkhazian peoples – not when Mr Saakashvili continued (with the complicity and encouragement of the US and some other Nato members) to talk of rearming his forces and reclaiming "Georgian territory". The presidents of the two republics appealed to Russia to recognise their independence.
A heavy decision weighed on my shoulders. Taking into account the freely expressed views of the Ossetian and Abkhazian peoples, and based on the principles of the United Nations charter and other documents of international law, I signed a decree on the Russian Federation's recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I sincerely hope that the Georgian people, to whom we feel historic friendship and sympathy, will one day have leaders they deserve, who care about their country and who develop mutually respectful relations with all the peoples in the Caucasus. Russia is ready to support the achievement of such a goal.
The writer is president of the Russian Federation
100% agree with the guy.
Still it's a good excuse for Russia to do more than what they should about this, but they are right to do it...
Opinions ?
I agree 100%. I have been saying it all along too. I have been telling all of my friends that I think Bush, Obama, and McCain all lack back bones for siding with Georgia. Russia was obviously right all along. But my country went with they sympathetic popular international opinion, rather than the logical correct one. I really hope Russia comes out on top of this one. I will be very disappointed in my country, or any other countries. Who take part in punitive actions against Russia in this.
seeing put that way, i have to agree. i don't know much about the Georgia situation, but if that is the case then the russians were completely justified.
there is one interesting theory I've heard, which just makes everything so much more difficult:
yeah, Russians started the war, they're to blame
BUT Georgia first attacked South Ossetia, (therefore Russia attacked Georgia to defend SO's russian nationals)
BUT South Ossetia first attacked Georgia to attain full independence through most-of-the-peoples' russian nationality,
BUT Russians distributed russian passports (just gave them away for free)..
this debate never ends, which country did what, were the measures correct on both sides.. just another show off of how people in general are f--king dumb and cannot learn from their mistakes (where every war has always been a "misunderstanding"
good point, i guess everyone goes to bed with no dinner
Quote from: bored on Aug 27, 2008, 10:42 PM
there is one interesting theory I've heard, which just makes everything so much more difficult:
yeah, Russians started the war, they're to blame
BUT Georgia first attacked South Ossetia, (therefore Russia attacked Georgia to defend SO's russian nationals)
BUT South Ossetia first attacked Georgia to attain full independence through most-of-the-peoples' russian nationality,
BUT Russians distributed russian passports (just gave them away for free)..
this debate never ends, which country did what, were the measures correct on both sides.. just another show off of how people in general are f--king dumb and cannot learn from their mistakes (where every war has always been a "misunderstanding"
I don't think Russia really started it. I mean, Georgia went into south Ossetia with violent force first. That seems like starting it to me. The only reason that the international community is saying that Russia started it is because the UN recognizes Ossetia as part of Georgia, therefore Georgia was just murdering their own citizens. No need to get in a hussy about something as silly as that right?
There is a reason Thomas Jefferson believed in regular revolution. Im starting to believe more and more than the man was psychic.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 27, 2008, 11:38 PM
There is a reason Thomas Jefferson believed in regular revolution. Im starting to believe more and more than the man was psychic.
i watched a program on Jefferson in my American Revolution class about a year ago. and you're right....the guy was a prodigy on revolutionary thought.
Do you know what the video is called? He is kind of a personal hero of mine. I like to read-watch stuff about him.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 28, 2008, 04:01 AM
Do you know what the video is called? He is kind of a personal hero of mine. I like to read-watch stuff about him.
not sure, but it was likely the professor got it from the history channel site.
yeah. I cant wait to get back into school and get exposed to more stuff like that.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 27, 2008, 11:38 PM
I don't think Russia really started it. I mean, Georgia went into south Ossetia with violent force first. That seems like starting it to me. The only reason that the international community is saying that Russia started it is because the UN recognizes Ossetia as part of Georgia, therefore Georgia was just murdering their own citizens. No need to get in a hussy about something as silly as that right?
that's what I meant - it's way not clear who started the whole thing after all.
Quote from: Variable on Aug 27, 2008, 11:38 PM
I don't think Russia really started it. I mean, Georgia went into south Ossetia with violent force first. That seems like starting it to me. The only reason that the international community is saying that Russia started it is because the UN recognizes Ossetia as part of Georgia, therefore Georgia was just murdering their own citizens. No need to get in a hussy about something as silly as that right?
somebody wanted to turn pretty ordinary political game into military conflict. damn, half ofthe world wanted to. including united states
Things like that are not all THAT ordinary in the western world. You Ruskies are just crazy. Its cool though, I dig. But yeah, I cant quite figure out what the US thinks it has to gain by siding with Georgia. I would much rather have Russia be an endearing ally than fucking no body Georgia.
so now Putin is blaming the presidential elections on our involvment in the war. ;D the scary part of this story is how "measures" against US companies are being taken to prevent them from doing business in Russia. bad news bears
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html)
i want to live in russia permanently
lol