This thread is inspired by the Healthy/Nutrition thread, and the KFC thread. I've been a vegetarian for five years now, and I still think there is a lot more I can find out about my diet. When your diet is limited to a certain degree, food can become monotonous (As it has for me) and you may want some variety. Feel free (PLEASE!) to share recipes that are cheap, easy and delicious to eat. This is also a good place to vent about animal rights or if you're thinking about becoming a vegetarian and have questions about it.
Where does the protein come from? I mean come on. Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.
The brief period I was veggie, basically all I ate was lentil mush, toast and cheese pizza.
Also, inb4 this turns into a veggie rage thread.
Quote from: defskull on Jun 14, 2010, 04:49 AM
Where does the protein come from? I mean come on. Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.
I'll give you brownie points for the
Pulp Fiction reference.
You get your protein through soy milk, tofu, different types of bread, a numerous amount of vegetables and fruits, different types of beans, vegetarian meats, brown rice and a lot more things that I don't really feel like listing. We really don't need to consume that much protein as many people think.
The major reason why I became a vegetarian was because I didn't eat meat a lot and didn't really like the taste of it.
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 14, 2010, 06:29 AM
vegetarian meats
i'm sorry and i totally respect your vegetarianism, but that's just hilarious.
another food-thread?
2 years later and were all exchanging recipes like old people do. are we that old?
Tried it for 3-4 months thanks to an ex-girlfriend.
Felt horrible, farted 24/7, and it took me 1-2 hours to poo.
Each to their own.
She just emailed me her favourite recipe after I mention this thread to her:
QuoteCRUSTED TOFU, EGGPLANT PUREE & SAFFRON VEGETABLES
Eggplant Puree: 1 large eggplant
2 teaspoons sugar
1 tablespoon olive oil
salt and pepper to taste
Tofu: 6 x 1cm thick slices firm Tofu (about 300g)
2 tablespoons miso paste
6 slices (dairy-free) white bread, crusts removed
3-4 tablespoons margarine (dairy-free table spread)
2 large cloves garlic, crushed
Vegetables: 1 small leek, thinly sliced
2-3 tablespoons olive oil
200g spinach, washed and chopped
few strands saffron
salt and pepper to taste
Preheat the oven to 200C.
To prepare the eggplant purée, peel the eggplant and dice. Toss with the sugar and oil in a roasting pan. Roast, until caramelised. Purée and season.
Place to one side.
Spread the tofu slices with the miso paste. Cut the bread slices into similar sizes to the tofu. Combine the margarine and garlic. Spread on the bread strips. Sandwich each piece of tofu between 2 strips of bread. Wrap in plastic film and refrigerate for 30 minutes.
Sweat the leak in 1 tablespoon of olive oil in a saucepan, until softened.
Add the wet spinach, saffron and seasonings. Steam, until very tender. Using a blender, coarsely chop.
Heat the remaining oil and pan-fry the tofu sandwiches until golden on both sides. Cut in half and assemble on serving plates together with the warmed eggplant purée the leek/spinach mixture.
Can be served with rounds of potato cooked in a little vegetable stock and margarine. - Serves 2-3
I'm not a vegetarian/vegan, but I don't eat that much meat; maybe once every two weeks. I haaaaate tofu, though.
It's surprisingly not that difficult to think of foods that you could exclude or don't call for meat at all. Salads, soups, omelettes, pizzas, and pastas come to mind. I love making vegetarian sambosas, dal, and even variations of stuffed grape leaves that I can sub out the ground beef.
Being a vegan is a completely different story. I don't think I could do it.
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
QuoteShe just emailed me her favourite recipe after I mention this thread to her:
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Quote from: wheresmysnare on Jun 14, 2010, 04:34 PM
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
being a human does mean not being an natural being alone.
Quote from: wheresmysnare on Jun 14, 2010, 04:34 PM
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
I like that you brought up the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, but, from my understanding, most diets from those with the h-g lifestyle was actually mostly comprised of nutrition from gathered foods, like berries and nuts. The kind of meat - and consequent fat-intake - hunter-gatherers were able to obtain obviously depended on their environments, but they were usually small game. Bigger kills, like deer or even mammoths/elephants/giraffes, were not daily catches. I know with the !Kung, a modern African hunter-gatherer society, hunts for giraffes usually take 5 - 7 days, and the meat is enough to last a community for about two weeks. When we're talking about h-g, these communities are typically pretty small, encompassing the family, and largely mobile.
The agricultural revolution is what completely caused an imbalance in human diets. We became more sedentary, more populated, and grew/raised more food. I completely agree with your take on a wholly vegan lifestyle; looking from an evolutionary, nutritional, and ethical way, I think there are other options, but I can definitely applaud anyone who can maintain vegan, especially in our current food system.
In saying the motivation to hunt animals was only partly for the meat.
Fat, skin and oils were also highly prized and required, outside of diet.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 14, 2010, 04:40 PM
Quote from: wheresmysnare on Jun 14, 2010, 04:34 PM
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
being a human does mean not being an natural being alone.
Yeah, but it did at one point, that's where our instincts come from, and that's why, in addition to what ry said, humans tend towards a diet with meat in it. It's socio-biological, the state before human ethics.
When is some one gonna make a thread for pink meat eaters, the vagitarians?
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 14, 2010, 06:29 AM
You get your protein through soy milk
Starting at 1:38
Lewis Black on Broadway (moo cow) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOLFo9Aoomw#)
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Jun 14, 2010, 10:05 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 14, 2010, 04:40 PM
Quote from: wheresmysnare on Jun 14, 2010, 04:34 PM
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
being a human does mean not being an natural being alone.
Yeah, but it did at one point, that's where our instincts come from, and that's why, in addition to what ry said, humans tend towards a diet with meat in it. It's socio-biological, the state before human ethics.
i claim its just social. no insticts involved in me eating meat. its just a habit i learned.
Quote from: weakcure on Jun 14, 2010, 03:52 PM
I'm not a vegetarian/vegan, but I don't eat that much meat; maybe once every two weeks. I haaaaate tofu, though.
It's surprisingly not that difficult to think of foods that you could exclude or don't call for meat at all. Salads, soups, omelettes, pizzas, and pastas come to mind. I love making vegetarian sambosas, dal, and even variations of stuffed grape leaves that I can sub out the ground beef.
Being a vegan is a completely different story. I don't think I could do it.
I like tofu just so as long as it's cooked. I know some people who just eat it cold, but I can't do that.
Being a vegan would be hard. Unless they come out with good soy cheese, I'll never entertain the idea. I do give vegans a lot of respect for being that dedicated.
Quote from: MxKnife on Jun 14, 2010, 10:15 PM
When is some one gonna make a thread for pink meat eaters, the vagitarians?
I underestimated how long it would take before someone brought up "vagitarians" . Thanks for proving me wrong!
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 15, 2010, 03:21 AM
Quote from: weakcure on Jun 14, 2010, 03:52 PM
I'm not a vegetarian/vegan, but I don't eat that much meat; maybe once every two weeks. I haaaaate tofu, though.
It's surprisingly not that difficult to think of foods that you could exclude or don't call for meat at all. Salads, soups, omelettes, pizzas, and pastas come to mind. I love making vegetarian sambosas, dal, and even variations of stuffed grape leaves that I can sub out the ground beef.
Being a vegan is a completely different story. I don't think I could do it.
I like tofu just so as long as it's cooked. I know some people who just eat it cold, but I can't do that.
Being a vegan would be hard. Unless they come out with good soy cheese, I'll never entertain the idea. I do give vegans a lot of respect for being that dedicated.
Quote from: MxKnife on Jun 14, 2010, 10:15 PM
When is some one gonna make a thread for pink meat eaters, the vagitarians?
I underestimated how long it would take before someone brought up "vagitarians" . Thanks for proving me wrong!
Anytime :D heheheh
Quote from: MxKnife on Jun 14, 2010, 10:15 PM
When is some one gonna make a thread for pink meat eaters, the vagitarians?
I'm a strict vagitarian actually.
(http://zeitgeistinapetiole.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/3642661392_5801c3b2181.jpg)
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 12:28 AM
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Jun 14, 2010, 10:05 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 14, 2010, 04:40 PM
Quote from: wheresmysnare on Jun 14, 2010, 04:34 PM
Humans are designed to go for high fat, high protein based foods, this comes from our days of being hunter gatherers, food would have to be caught, after spending 1/2 a day tracking, hunting, setting traps you'd want your prey to have some meat on it.
Eating meat, it would seem, is more natural than not, it could be argued that those who don't have lost their connection with mother nature, as Elton John's lyricist once said, it's the circle of life.
I would agree however that the ever increasing population and it's burgeoning demand for meat has resulted in mass over-farming of animals, which has resulted in a lot of fucked up practices. Being a vegan therefore, is honourable as a protest against this, but I remain unconvinced that it is a naturally occuring phenomona, more a state of mind if you will.
being a human does mean not being an natural being alone.
Yeah, but it did at one point, that's where our instincts come from, and that's why, in addition to what ry said, humans tend towards a diet with meat in it. It's socio-biological, the state before human ethics.
i claim its just social. no insticts involved in me eating meat. its just a habit i learned.
That makes absolutely zero sense.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 12:28 AM
i claim its just social. no insticts involved in me eating meat. its just a habit i learned.
Seriously...think about it.
It's instinctive survival at it's purest.It's also blatantly obvious scientifically not to mention historically.We wouldn't be here without meat and meat eaters.
The difference now days is the luxury of choice followed by the direct shift in social morals and ethics.It's easy to frown on when you have options.
I respect personal choice but to state eating meat is no more than a bad habit is pretty left-field outside subjective opinion.
QuoteWe wouldn't be here without meat and meat eaters.
did i say otherwise?
can anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat? is there such thing in our genom?
i think our species survived that well because it was able to adopt in a specific environmental and social setting.
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 05:25 PMcan anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat?
I can think of one thing. We still have canine teeth. I don't think we need instinct when our bodies are designed to process meat. Granted, we eat faaaaaaaaaaaar too much meat, myself included, but the point is, mother made us omnivorous. We CAN eat meat. We don't HAVE to.
That's the beauty of being an omnivore!
Quote from: defskull on Jun 15, 2010, 09:02 PM
That's the beauty of being an omnivore!
Exactly. If you believe being veggie will make a difference, go for it. Personally, I believe that meat farms are wrong. but that at this point in society, there are VASTLY larger problems that we have to deal with before my beliefs about meat farms can even be tackled.
I don't think we can deal with the problem of how we process our meat can be dealt with until we're less dependent on convenience. The convenience that the way we farm our meat is the real problem. And THIS problem can't be tackled until society gets out of the slump it's in.
I'm riffing and I'm not sure if any of that made sense. I'm a little drunk. But the point is, there are bigger problems that we have to tackle. Such as the problems that can lead to societal collapse. I'm all for the proper respect of animals and what they do for us, but we just can't deal with that until we deal with out own problems. Yeah it sucks, I agree, But if we want to advance the human race to the point of being selfLESS instead of selfISH so we can take care of our planet and all the beautiful things mother nature has given us, then we have to deal with ourselves. We can't respect nature until we respect what nature has done for us.
And here's something else to think about that, as I think it, I know you vegetarians will argue. One human being is utterly useless in the great scheme of the universe. Think about it. The vastness of space. The vastness of our solar system. If we left earth and traveled to the nearest star with our current technology, it'd take 81,000 years. And that's just the nearest system. The chance that there's life there that gives a flying fuck about us is unbelievably remote. So what does it matter of ONE person on our planet decides to stop eating meat to save the lives of a couple of cows? Great, you save three cows in your life. Oh wait. The cows still got slaughtered. You just didn't eat the meat. It expired on the shelf in the store.
I'm not particularly trying to argue that your beliefs are futile. Everyone has a right to there beliefs. If you think some omnipotent being in the sky created you and your thumbless hands, that's great. Believe that. But let's at least be realistic and logical about our beliefs. If PETA (fuck PETA) says that cows can feel too, don't get caught up in feeling guilty because the human race eats meat, think about our history, how we've lived in the past, how your deciding to be veggie will affect the planet, how your being veggie will affect yourself and those around you...because in reality, you don't matter. The three cows you saved don't matter. Our planet doesn't matter. Sol doesn't matter. Our galaxy doesn't matter. We are but a speck of a speck of a speck of a speck in an infinite possibility of planets in an infinite possibility of solar systems in an infinite possibility of galaxies in an infinite possibility of universes. The universe is infinite. Stop thinking you're special and that you can make a difference in the world.
Instead, let's focus on being good to each other. Let's get along.
That really only partially had anything to do with vegetarianism, but I'm wasted and I'm sick of people thinking they can "make a difference". In the whole scope of things, if you affect the entire planet, you still affect nothing. Let's not take life for granted. Let's not think that we are infinite. We aren't. Let's take life for what it is and enjoy it. Fuck the system, life is beautiful. Enjoy it.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Jun 16, 2010, 04:19 AM
So what does it matter of ONE person on our planet decides to stop eating meat to save the lives of a couple of cows? Great, you save three cows in your life. Oh wait. The cows still got slaughtered. You just didn't eat the meat. It expired on the shelf in the store.
I'm not particularly trying to argue that your beliefs are futile.
Sorry, but you are arguing that and saying you're not arguing that isn't helping your cause. For me, it's not so much as making a difference as much as saving a cow from torture for just one day. It probably sounds futile to you and every other person who isn't a vegetarian, but to me I know I might have given one cow a day's peace. If you're going to argue that it's going to die anyway, then you're missing my point. I'm pragmatic, and I don't expect that me being a vegetarian is going to make a huge difference, because I know it doesn't. The rest of the world would have to follow suit, and that is not going to happen any time in the near future.
The problem isn't necessarily the animal that's getting killed. I understand people eat meat. I'm not the stereotypical vegetarian who will tell you you're a horrible person for eating dead flesh. In fact, I hate when other vegetarians do that and I actually hate PETA for doing that. Their heart is in the right place, I just think it's a fucked up way of turning people off to meat. What ticks me off is the way these animals are slaughtered. It's not humane and if you're going to kill a cow for food, I would rather have it put out of its misery than endlessly tortured before it's killed.
we stepped away from evolution as soon as civilisation came to be. if you do not participate in rape because it is morally wrong, you are sacrificing the opportunity for something pleasurable but not necessary. yes, others will be raped probably until the end of time, but at least you are not contributing to the problem. if you do not eat meat, yes other animals will be killed, but not because of you and not for you, and that many less animals will be killed when it is not necessary. and i'm not associating rape with pleasure here. just an analogy to make a point. the parallel was to be found in sacrificing pleasure for the ethical choice of respecting the rights of others (including the rights of animals and other humans who suffer from the pollution caused by meat farms) over temporary unneccessary pleasure of self.
we have to believe in the power of reason to solve problems. one of the problems humans have created, and therefore have the responsibility to solve, is how to a) protect all the other species on this planet from destruction from our excesses, and b) how to feed our bloated population in a humane manner.
evolution isn't a value system. to say humans are more "evolved" than most animals isn't saying other animals are inferior. besides, honey bees are at the top of their evolutionary chain; in terms of evolutionary adaptation, they are precisely as "evolved" as humans are.
it's quite possible that lions do have the ability to reason morally; it's certain that other animals, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, do. however, humans are the only creature who use the ability to reason to adapt the environment, rather than adapting to the environment. so we have to face questions which dolphins, chimps, and lions don't. if a lion refuses its ethical responsibility to examine its actions, it's not going to wipe out other species or cause the suffering of billions of other feeling beings. an intellectually lazy human does just that.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Jun 15, 2010, 07:19 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 05:25 PMcan anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat?
I can think of one thing. We still have canine teeth. I don't think we need instinct when our bodies are designed to process meat. Granted, we eat faaaaaaaaaaaar too much meat, myself included, but the point is, mother made us omnivorous. We CAN eat meat. We don't HAVE to.
not true. our teeth are not designed to eat flesh. we have no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding whilst meat eaters have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding. we wouldn't have so many crucial ingestive/digestive similarities with animals that are herbivores if we were designed to eat meat.
many poor people waste money on nutritionally deficient meats because they believe meat is necessary to survive.
i think if factory farms were abolished, the huge quantities of money invested in furthering the myth that meat is necessary and agriculture an extension of man's natural dominion over beast (whatever that means) would crumble with it. i also don't understand why everyone got so defensive in this thread and almost immediately tried to prove that human's are meant to eat meat and shared their unsuccessful veg experience. i understood this thread was about recipes, yeah?
Sorry for my drunken ramble. It made no sense.
Quote from: blixa on Jun 16, 2010, 03:55 PM
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Jun 15, 2010, 07:19 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 05:25 PMcan anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat?
I can think of one thing. We still have canine teeth. I don't think we need instinct when our bodies are designed to process meat. Granted, we eat faaaaaaaaaaaar too much meat, myself included, but the point is, mother made us omnivorous. We CAN eat meat. We don't HAVE to.
not true. our teeth are not designed to eat flesh. we have no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding whilst meat eaters have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding. we wouldn't have so many crucial ingestive/digestive similarities with animals that are herbivores if we were designed to eat meat.
many poor people waste money on nutritionally deficient meats because they believe meat is necessary to survive.
i think if factory farms were abolished, the huge quantities of money invested in furthering the myth that meat is necessary and agriculture an extension of man's natural dominion over beast (whatever that means) would crumble with it. i also don't understand why everyone got so defensive in this thread and almost immediately tried to prove that human's are meant to eat meat and shared their unsuccessful veg experience. i understood this thread was about recipes, yeah?
We DO have sharp tearing teeth. AND we have grinding teeth. Like every other omnivore on the planet.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Jun 16, 2010, 04:19 AM
Quote from: defskull on Jun 15, 2010, 09:02 PM
That's the beauty of being an omnivore!
Exactly. If you believe being veggie will make a difference, go for it. Personally, I believe that meat farms are wrong. but that at this point in society, there are VASTLY larger problems that we have to deal with before my beliefs about meat farms can even be tackled.
I don't think we can deal with the problem of how we process our meat can be dealt with until we're less dependent on convenience. The convenience that the way we farm our meat is the real problem. And THIS problem can't be tackled until society gets out of the slump it's in.
I'm riffing and I'm not sure if any of that made sense. I'm a little drunk. But the point is, there are bigger problems that we have to tackle. Such as the problems that can lead to societal collapse. I'm all for the proper respect of animals and what they do for us, but we just can't deal with that until we deal with out own problems. Yeah it sucks, I agree, But if we want to advance the human race to the point of being selfLESS instead of selfISH so we can take care of our planet and all the beautiful things mother nature has given us, then we have to deal with ourselves. We can't respect nature until we respect what nature has done for us.
And here's something else to think about that, as I think it, I know you vegetarians will argue. One human being is utterly useless in the great scheme of the universe. Think about it. The vastness of space. The vastness of our solar system. If we left earth and traveled to the nearest star with our current technology, it'd take 81,000 years. And that's just the nearest system. The chance that there's life there that gives a flying fuck about us is unbelievably remote. So what does it matter of ONE person on our planet decides to stop eating meat to save the lives of a couple of cows? Great, you save three cows in your life. Oh wait. The cows still got slaughtered. You just didn't eat the meat. It expired on the shelf in the store.
I'm not particularly trying to argue that your beliefs are futile. Everyone has a right to there beliefs. If you think some omnipotent being in the sky created you and your thumbless hands, that's great. Believe that. But let's at least be realistic and logical about our beliefs. If PETA (fuck PETA) says that cows can feel too, don't get caught up in feeling guilty because the human race eats meat, think about our history, how we've lived in the past, how your deciding to be veggie will affect the planet, how your being veggie will affect yourself and those around you...because in reality, you don't matter. The three cows you saved don't matter. Our planet doesn't matter. Sol doesn't matter. Our galaxy doesn't matter. We are but a speck of a speck of a speck of a speck in an infinite possibility of planets in an infinite possibility of solar systems in an infinite possibility of galaxies in an infinite possibility of universes. The universe is infinite. Stop thinking you're special and that you can make a difference in the world.
Instead, let's focus on being good to each other. Let's get along.
That really only partially had anything to do with vegetarianism, but I'm wasted and I'm sick of people thinking they can "make a difference". In the whole scope of things, if you affect the entire planet, you still affect nothing. Let's not take life for granted. Let's not think that we are infinite. We aren't. Let's take life for what it is and enjoy it. Fuck the system, life is beautiful. Enjoy it.
I physically applauded you. Good post, mate (wasted or not).
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 05:25 PM
can anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat? is there such thing in our genom?
To be blunt.Yes.
Google it.
Quote from: Necrocetaceanbeastiality on Jun 16, 2010, 04:19 AM
Instead, let's focus on being good to each other. Let's get along.
True bud and I get you but to cancel debate on a topic by simply stating "there are bigger issues" is pretty redundant and unproductive.
There will always be bigger issues but that takes nothing away from minority discussion, as I would assume was the theme of this thread topic.
Not solving world peace.
Quote from: blixa on Jun 16, 2010, 03:39 PM
we stepped away from evolution as soon as civilisation came to be. if you do not participate in rape because it is morally wrong, you are sacrificing the opportunity for something pleasurable but not necessary. yes, others will be raped probably until the end of time, but at least you are not contributing to the problem. if you do not eat meat, yes other animals will be killed, but not because of you and not for you, and that many less animals will be killed when it is not necessary. and i'm not associating rape with pleasure here. just an analogy to make a point. the parallel was to be found in sacrificing pleasure for the ethical choice of respecting the rights of others (including the rights of animals and other humans who suffer from the pollution caused by meat farms) over temporary unneccessary pleasure of self.
we have to believe in the power of reason to solve problems. one of the problems humans have created, and therefore have the responsibility to solve, is how to a) protect all the other species on this planet from destruction from our excesses, and b) how to feed our bloated population in a humane manner.
evolution isn't a value system. to say humans are more "evolved" than most animals isn't saying other animals are inferior. besides, honey bees are at the top of their evolutionary chain; in terms of evolutionary adaptation, they are precisely as "evolved" as humans are.
it's quite possible that lions do have the ability to reason morally; it's certain that other animals, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, do. however, humans are the only creature who use the ability to reason to adapt the environment, rather than adapting to the environment. so we have to face questions which dolphins, chimps, and lions don't. if a lion refuses its ethical responsibility to examine its actions, it's not going to wipe out other species or cause the suffering of billions of other feeling beings. an intellectually lazy human does just that.
You have got to be kidding me. Number one, we were talking about sociobiology. That it's instinctual for people to like meat. It's the same reason people like salt, sugar, or anything else. Things taste good because they were so scarce in primitive society, it's a defense mechanism to get people to crave what their body needs.
The ethics is a whole different discussion. But you're absolutely insane to label people as intellectually lazy because they see the difference between animal and human rights, and for equating animal and human reason.
Quote from: fireflyry on Jun 18, 2010, 02:02 PM
Quote from: Nailec on Jun 15, 2010, 05:25 PM
can anyone of you proove that were born with an instict to eat meat? is there such thing in our genom?
To be blunt.Yes.
Google it.
If you know a source off hand that isn't biased and reputable about the subject at hand then post it in this thread. Just saying "Google it" isn't making an argument for your cause.
Why bother?
You missed where I was coming from.
We both know that "factual studies" can be thrown up for either argument, that's the whole point.
"Can you prove it's true?/Can you prove it's false?"
From that point on any debate goes out the window and it becomes selective posting of subjective information, especially concerning this topic.
"Post a link or your wrong"...is just a cop out.
Then again so is this post.
Exactly.
Someone hook me up with a good vegetarian recipe blog/webpage!
(http://www.hennessy.id.au/quentingeorge/archives/bigpot6.jpg)
Quote from: fireflyry on Jun 19, 2010, 04:58 PM
Why bother?
You missed where I was coming from.
We both know that "factual studies" can be thrown up for either argument, that's the whole point.
"Can you prove it's true?/Can you prove it's false?"
From that point on any debate goes out the window and it becomes selective posting of subjective information, especially concerning this topic.
"Post a link or your wrong"...is just a cop out.
Then again so is this post.
Exactly.
Haha, maybe you should re-read your post because that's funnier than the picture sing blue silver posted.
There's nothing wrong with having a debate on the subject, and any argument anyone makes is ALWAYS using selective information--you're trying to convince someone to have a certain opinion. If you think it's pointless, then you don't have to post in this thread. You do know people learn things by debate and other points of view, right? Sometimes people are convinced, and others still stand with their original opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it "pointless" because no matter what you're learning something new by listening to a different opinion. I am intrigued by this topic because I am not very savvy about the subject at hand and would like to learn more about it. I don't know about you, but I like learning new things which is why I made this thread in the first place--to learn more about vegetarianism and other subjects related to it.
Anyway the other reason why I asked for a source is because telling someone to "Google it" isn't going to move the debate forward and isn't a contribution to this thread whatsoever. It's pretty much closing any argument that could be posted in this thread. At least with a source, people can start to form opinions or at least gain insight. It's not a cop out to ask for a link or any other source. It's actually pretty valid and logical.
Why argue in the first place about it? You either choose to not eat meat or you don't. Pretty simple. Choose your side and move on. Arguing about this is retarded. It's like me saying I like peanut butter and you don't and we're trying to argue who is right. No one is right. It's just a choice.
Whatever people do or refrain from doing, others will view it as an acknowledgment that they make better decisions anyways.
Be it drinking alcohol or not, buying food from organic farming or not, buying food / clothes from fair trade companies or not, and of course eating meat or not eating meat.
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 20, 2010, 11:49 PM
you're trying to convince someone to have a certain opinion
Nope.
Never did that sorry.
I was responding to a request for proof on opinion and subjective scientific fact, which we both agree is silly.
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 20, 2010, 11:49 PM
Anyway the other reason why I asked for a source is because telling someone to "Google it" isn't going to move the debate forward and isn't a contribution to this thread whatsoever.
Neither is asking me to validate my opinion and subjective knowledge by having to post easily found research.
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 20, 2010, 11:49 PM
It's pretty much closing any argument that could be posted in this thread. At least with a source, people can start to form opinions or at least gain insight. It's not a cop out to ask for a link or any other source. It's actually pretty valid and logical.
The difference is I never asked for proof on any point anyone made in this thread.
Why should I have to post a factual source as conversely I could make exactly the same demand?
It's just silly.
Quote from: defskull on Jun 21, 2010, 04:54 AM
Why argue in the first place about it? You either choose to not eat meat or you don't. Pretty simple. Choose your side and move on. Arguing about this is retarded. It's like me saying I like peanut butter and you don't and we're trying to argue who is right. No one is right. It's just a choice.
Agreed.
Quote from: chick de la lynch on Jun 14, 2010, 06:29 AM
Quote from: defskull on Jun 14, 2010, 04:49 AM
Where does the protein come from? I mean come on. Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.
The major reason why I became a vegetarian was because I didn't eat meat a lot and didn't really like the taste of it.
yeah i HATE the smell of meat...its pretty rank..and the consideration that the animal was killed inhumanly and left lying in its own sghit or something puts me off...
so i pretty much only eat small amounts of chicken, and im a big fish eater for protein..
i found when i was a full time vegetarian, i lost a lot of muscle mass :/..and i like to maintain my rugged frame :p so i included chicken and fish again...but only on 3 days of the week.
Quote from: alvarezbassist17 on Jun 19, 2010, 12:59 AM
Quote from: blixa on Jun 16, 2010, 03:39 PM
we stepped away from evolution as soon as civilisation came to be. if you do not participate in rape because it is morally wrong, you are sacrificing the opportunity for something pleasurable but not necessary. yes, others will be raped probably until the end of time, but at least you are not contributing to the problem. if you do not eat meat, yes other animals will be killed, but not because of you and not for you, and that many less animals will be killed when it is not necessary. and i'm not associating rape with pleasure here. just an analogy to make a point. the parallel was to be found in sacrificing pleasure for the ethical choice of respecting the rights of others (including the rights of animals and other humans who suffer from the pollution caused by meat farms) over temporary unneccessary pleasure of self.
we have to believe in the power of reason to solve problems. one of the problems humans have created, and therefore have the responsibility to solve, is how to a) protect all the other species on this planet from destruction from our excesses, and b) how to feed our bloated population in a humane manner.
evolution isn't a value system. to say humans are more "evolved" than most animals isn't saying other animals are inferior. besides, honey bees are at the top of their evolutionary chain; in terms of evolutionary adaptation, they are precisely as "evolved" as humans are.
it's quite possible that lions do have the ability to reason morally; it's certain that other animals, such as dolphins and chimpanzees, do. however, humans are the only creature who use the ability to reason to adapt the environment, rather than adapting to the environment. so we have to face questions which dolphins, chimps, and lions don't. if a lion refuses its ethical responsibility to examine its actions, it's not going to wipe out other species or cause the suffering of billions of other feeling beings. an intellectually lazy human does just that.
You have got to be kidding me. Number one, we were talking about sociobiology. That it's instinctual for people to like meat. It's the same reason people like salt, sugar, or anything else. Things taste good because they were so scarce in primitive society, it's a defense mechanism to get people to crave what their body needs.
The ethics is a whole different discussion. But you're absolutely insane to label people as intellectually lazy because they see the difference between animal and human rights, and for equating animal and human reason.
our instinct to eat meat is cultural, not natural. if i was to look at it from a philosophical point of view, it would be irrelevant if it was instinctual or not. i come from the peter singer school of thought on this - there is a powerful logical argument at the core of animal rights groups: animals should be treated much the same way humans are - their lives should be respected, their pain minimised, etc. make this one simple change to your system of morality and everything else falls into place.
the difference between you and i is that i believe animals don't need to be like me to have rights, they merely have to exist to have rights. if they have life, they have the right to that life. just because i have a different life doesn't mean mine is better, or that i have jurisdiction over their lives. the whole discussion about rights is mind boggling at times because what can we say about the extremely mentally handicapped? it opens up a really large discussion about rights that becomes divorced from this discussion but if we need to have that discussion then we should.
i don't know if i've said this but i stress it a lot and that is if every american were to remove one serving of meat a week from their diet, it would be environmentally the equivalent of taking 5 million cars off the road. that's a very radical statistic and that should be persuasive enough for every one of your countrymen and women to do. i understand that eating less meat for some people is difficult but for someone to say that they can't remove one serving of meat a week from their diet is not just intellectually lazy but unethical. the 'what makes you happy' and 'eat what tastes good' is not always the best qualifier for a standard of ethics. if someone can be content eating horribly abused factory farmed animals, then we should fully realise that the standard of happiness has no place in the ethical realm.
Ok, I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, but LOL
In a 2001 review of Midas Dekker's Dearest Pet: On Bestiality, Singer argues that sexual activities between humans and animals that result in harm to the animal should remain illegal, but that "sex with animals does not always involve cruelty" and that "mutually satisfying activities" of a sexual nature may sometimes occur between humans and animals, and that writer Otto Soyka would condone such activities.[26] The position was countered by fellow philosopher Tom Regan, who writes that the same argument could be used to justify having sex with children. Regan writes that Singer's position is a consequence of his adapting a utilitarian, or consequentialist, approach to animal rights, rather than a strictly rights-based one, and argues that the rights-based position distances itself from non-consensual sex.[27] The Humane Society of the United States takes the position that all sexual molestation of animals by humans is abusive, whether it involves physical injury or not.[28]
Commenting on Singer's article "Heavy Petting,"[29] in which he argues that zoosexual activity need not be abusive, and that relationships could form which were mutually enjoyed, Ingrid Newkirk, president of the animal rights group PETA, argued that, "If a girl gets sexual pleasure from riding a horse, does the horse suffer? If not, who cares? If you French kiss your dog and he or she thinks it's great, is it wrong? We believe all exploitation and abuse is wrong. If it isn't exploitation and abuse, [then] it may not be wrong." A few years later, Newkirk clarified in a letter to the Canada Free Press that she was strongly opposed to any exploitation of, and all sexual activity with, animals.[30]
Singer believes that although sex between species is not normal or natural,[31] it does not constitute a transgression of our status as human beings, because human beings are animals or, more specifically, "we are great apes".
P.S. Plz cite your very radical statistic. And these people you're citing really seem like crazies to me. This Peter Singer dude is, um, a bit on the extreme side. So he thinks you can kill newborns because they don't yet have the ability of rational thought? Is that what you're implying with the mentally handicapped thing? I get the feeling like you're almost holding back and have a lot more radical things to say than you're leading on.