Let me start by saying that this is a criticism of the CD Master and not the musical content. I absolutely love KNY. Wanted to start this thread to discuss the mastering of the CD and the alternate master that is available from HD TRACKS. The CD master has been compressed to the point of having very little dynamic range and I even notice quite a bit of brick walling and clipping in the guitars and lots of Abe's drumming. There is a huge sacrifice of fidelity for volume which is a shame. Now take a listen to the HD TRACKS 24bit/96hz download and it is like listening to a completely different album, Abe's drums sound much fuller and rounder with quite a bit more bass and punch. Stef's guitar doesn't clip out and distort at the high and low ends and sounds much more complete. There is quite a bit more seperation in the HD tracks mix, so Franks parts are easily distinguishable and don't compete of fall behind all of the other components like on the CD master.
I have included some audio rips from Audacity to show you just how brick walled the CD master is, and to show how much dynamic range the HD master has.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/ama5uram.jpg)
Notice that the CD master has the dynamic range compressed to the point of clipping along the edges, whereas the HD master doesn't approach the limits of CD signal processing. Bottom line, the HD master makes the CD sound like garbage. Now here is the million dollar question... Why are there two different masters? I really believe that the HD TRACKS version is the original studio master, whereas the CD version has been fucked with by the label so it sounds 'louder' for radio airplay and shuffling MP3 players. Does anybody have any thoughts or has anyone else heard the HD mix?
excuse me if it is a noob question but where ican find the Hd tracks ?
www.hdtracks.com, not sure if this other master has leaked yet
That's interesting. I'm waiting for the others to share their opinions. If you are right whiskey, then it's a shame.
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...damn, this just made my day!
for all of you fans, this is THE way to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.
but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.
as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that branch of itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.
in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in an hour!
this brickwalling sh*t is insane, I'm glad i didn't get the CD...
It is so upsetting to be forced to listen to music that way and it's unbearable with headphones, i don't know how these icrap people do it.
Now the question is which master will they use for the vinyl? hopefully the good one, i am waiting for it personally hoping it will be worth the buy.
I usually do not download 96khz/24bit album but i'll give this a try for once.
flac format is uploaded both on waffles and what.cd for those who has an account there.
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 07:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.
but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.
as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.
in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!
Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release. So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision? I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission. For their sake I hope that is not the case.
I cant find it on hdtracks anymore...
Could someone send me a pm if you know where to find it?
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 08:13 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 07:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.
but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.
as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.
in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!
Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release. So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision? I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission. For their sake I hope that is not the case.
yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.
i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.
is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 09:00 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 08:13 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 07:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.
but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.
as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.
in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!
Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release. So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision? I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission. For their sake I hope that is not the case.
yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.
i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.
is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.
The compression of fidelity is not about fitting it on CD... You can convert down to 16 bit an still preserve the dynamic range. The CD's were compressed to make them LOUDER, which sacrifices fidelity. The differences in those Audacity graphs are not the difference between 16 and 24 bit, it shows that signal processing was applied to compress the dynamic range, thus altering the original recording and sacrificing the sound quality to make it a 'louder' album.
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 09:13 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 09:00 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 08:13 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 07:14 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
holy fuck! i didnt knew they made it to hdtracks!
thats freaking awesome.
im buying it. right now. i thought it was wishful thinking...them this just mad my day!
for all of you fan, this is THE way you have to listen to deftones.
you gotta have the equipment to take advantage of it though....
Very true, but why is there an entirely different master?
i wouldnt go "all in" for that statement.
but if it is indeed a different master, i would bet my money that they will use this master, to make a "master for itunes" release.
as it is known that labels are feeling well attracted to that brunch in itunes. wich is kinda silly cause they compress it anyways, only that the itunes engineers do some eq twicks, so that the version they pull out, servs better for their propietary encoding.
in any case, excellent find man. ill be rocking the copy with my icon hdp via senns hd 650 in, an hour!
Maybe I said it wrong... It is the same master, but they compressed the life out of it for the CD and iTunes release. So it is worth asking, was the band aware of this decision? I can't imagine any member of Deftones agreeing to compromise the fidelity of Koi No Yokan, which leaves only one possibility, that the label did it without their permission. For their sake I hope that is not the case.
yeah most of the artist dont really know or dont straight care about it. but yeah it is really evident the loss you get by compressing it to 16, once you are able to make a comparison, like the one you just did.
i wouldnt play the deftones card, that they knew it. i would say they even know they got a 24bit digital out either. this would have been a great question for the q&a in twitter the other...actually it was on my list.
is not a mistery that well recorded albums since ever have loss a lot of juice by been compress to 16, just so it can be fitted on the cd. so it is something most of the artist dont care.
The compression of fidelity is not about fitting it on CD... You can convert down to 16 bit an still preserve the dynamic range. The CD's were compressed to make them LOUDER, which sacrifices fidelity. The differences in those Audacity graphs are not the difference between 16 and 24 bit, it shows that signal processing was applied to compress the dynamic range, thus altering the original recording and sacrificing the sound quality to make it a 'louder' album.
true, very true. i stand corrected.
though lets remember it wasnt the primordial objective to be achived. back in the 80's when cds and cd player were expensive, loudness war was not really raiging so...matching the highest peak was the standard...at list for the sake of analog recording.
in any case, in current times, the standard is exactly what you've described.
i'm VERY interested in hearing the difference. i did obtain a FLAC copy around the time of the leak, but i don't think it was derived from the HDTRACKS version. can someone shoot me a PM? i'd be very grateful.
I noticed the bass sounds flat sergio will come in but in sounds just like a normal guitar and it barely comes out the sub most the bass that comes out the sub is Abe's bass drum
Quote from: scarywindow on Nov 17, 2012, 10:11 PM
i'm VERY interested in hearing the difference. i did obtain a FLAC copy around the time of the leak, but i don't think it was derived from the HDTRACKS version. can someone shoot me a PM? i'd be very grateful.
no that aint the hdtrack release. in fact the hdtracks release is over 1gb of size. [1,06 GB (1.148.303.176 bytes)]
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 17, 2012, 10:20 PM
I noticed the bass sounds flat sergio will come in but in sounds just like a normal guitar and it barely comes out the sub most the bass that comes out the sub is Abe's bass drum
Exactly that!... when i listened to swerve city for the first time i though my sub woofer was turned off or something because the bass guitar volume is really low on that track... i tried to hear sergio's bass by doing some EQ and adding filters and stuff but is barely audible.
You can hear the difference even in the previews, just listen to Abe's snare on Swerve City it has a different sound (or is just me?) https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649)
Sergio's bass sounds COMPLETELY different on the HD version of Swerve City. There is so much separation and you can hear it dip much lower as it weaves between Abe's drumming. And Stef's guitars are much more throatier and textured. Romantic Dreams especially has much more guitar crunch.
Anyone care to shoot me a pm with this? Does it fit on a normal cd using say, nero? I have a big yamaha theater begging me for this. Mainly just curious to see how much of a difference I can notice. Thanks to anyone in advance.
Man, I wish I had the 20$ to buy those hd tracks... The previews sound far superior than the CD
Quote from: N0S3BLEED976 on Nov 18, 2012, 12:02 AM
Man, I wish I had the 20$ to buy those hd tracks... The previews sound far superior than the CD
Yeah same ,it sucks we have to in the first place i already bought the CD
we should have just all thrown down a dollar and shared it for everyone. unless a lot of the $ goes to the band..
.
you gotta enable the 24 bit reproduction on your soundcard though (if it supports it), otherwise the magic aint really happening.
i dont think the previews need it though, in any case, you have to enable it, if you ought to enjoy it.
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 18, 2012, 01:09 AM
you gotta enable the 24 bit reproduction on your soundcard though (if it supports it), otherwise the magic aint really happening.
i dont think the previews need it though, in any case, you gonna have it enable if you ought to enjoy it.
Ahh.. so it's only really meant for a computer? Nevermind then lol, my soundcard/speakers on this one are the lowest of the low. Thanks asshole who jacked my old pc with 5.1 lol, FUCK. Could anyone recommend me a nice 5.1 or even just a normal pair of pc speakers that are fairly cheap but definitely quality?
Thanks so much for pointing out the existence of this master... just grabbed the 16/44 downsampled copy on What.
A few minutes of listening has just left me shaking my head, as someone who bought the CD. I'll probably delete my CD rip and never touch it again. There is absolutely no comparison in the quality of the drums.
I'm young enough that this loudness-war bullshit has been the scourge of the industry for as long as I can remember, so at least I didn't have to watch as any care for audio fidelity slipped out of the consumer's fingers through the late 90s and early 00s. A few comments:
1. If you can get a hold of this rip, do so, regardless of whether you have a fancy sound card that can output 24/96. If your speakers cost under a grand there's almost no chance you'd even be able to discern between 24/96 and 16/44 of the same master, but the difference between masters (regardless of resolution) is night and day.
2. It is incredibly disconcerting to see that they went to the care to produce this "proper" master, then put in extra effort to intentionally sabotage it for the CD. After years of getting worked up about every other new release, I've almost resigned myself to audiophiles (and all who give two shits about quality) losing the loudness war... but seeing this master is just salt in the wound. I can only wonder how many other wonderful albums that have been ruined by awful production and mastering have similar copies sitting in some dark warehouse owned by the big record companies.
3. Someone on the last page hit the nail on the head: most artists don't care about, or even understand, the issue. It's just an unfortunate reality that most of us are either left-brained or right-brained, and many (not all) highly-productive creative artists like musicians are not analytical enough to care about this type of technical mumbo jumbo. And if they don't care, then mastering decisions come down to soulless executives who'd be happy to shit all over the DARK SIDE OF THE MOON of our generation and clip it to hell if their narrow-minded market studies suggested it might add 4% to first-week sales.
EDIT: Figures, fucking buffoons screwed up the track transitions in the HD master by inserting silence. I guess it's just that difficult to get this stuff right when it's your livelihood. Fuck this industry, lol.
ok........ now I want it all over again. Anyone? fuck.
I really want it now as well feel kind of ripped off by the cd
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 18, 2012, 06:12 AM
Thanks so much for pointing out the existence of this master... just grabbed the 16/44 downsampled copy on What.
A few minutes of listening has just left me shaking my head, as someone who bought the CD. I'll probably delete my CD rip and never touch it again. There is absolutely no comparison in the quality of the drums.
I'm young enough that this loudness-war bullshit has been the scourge of the industry for as long as I can remember, so at least I didn't have to watch as any care for audio fidelity slipped out of the consumer's fingers through the late 90s and early 00s. A few comments:
1. If you can get a hold of this rip, do so, regardless of whether you have a fancy sound card that can output 24/96. If your speakers cost under a grand there's almost no chance you'd even be able to discern between 24/96 and 16/44 of the same master, but the difference between masters (regardless of resolution) is night and day.
2. It is incredibly disconcerting to see that they went to the care to produce this "proper" master, then put in extra effort to intentionally sabotage it for the CD. After years of getting worked up about every other new release, I've almost resigned myself to audiophiles (and all who give two shits about quality) losing the loudness war... but seeing this master is just salt in the wound. I can only wonder how many other wonderful albums that have been ruined by awful production and mastering have similar copies sitting in some dark warehouse owned by the big record companies.
3. Someone on the last page hit the nail on the head: most artists don't care about, or even understand, the issue. It's just an unfortunate reality that most of us are either left-brained or right-brained, and many (not all) highly-productive creative artists like musicians are not analytical enough to care about this type of technical mumbo jumbo. And if they don't care, then mastering decisions come down to soulless executives who'd be happy to shit all over the DARK SIDE OF THE MOON of our generation and clip it to hell if their narrow-minded market studies suggested it might add 4% to first-week sales.
EDIT: Figures, fucking buffoons screwed up the track transitions in the HD master by inserting silence. I guess it's just that difficult to get this stuff right when it's your livelihood. Fuck this industry, lol.
I was JUST about to download the HD but resisted after you said the transitions aren't there.. Da fuq?
Meh, I think the cd version sounds fine.
*I hated the Remastered version of The Cure's- Disintegration cd. The 1989 original cd version is way better.
* I actually like the Remastered version of Glass Jaw's- Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Silence on itunes. It sounds better than the original, but doesn't take away the atmosphere or feeling of the original .
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 18, 2012, 06:12 AM
Thanks so much for pointing out the existence of this master... just grabbed the 16/44 downsampled copy on What.
A few minutes of listening has just left me shaking my head, as someone who bought the CD. I'll probably delete my CD rip and never touch it again. There is absolutely no comparison in the quality of the drums.
I'm young enough that this loudness-war bullshit has been the scourge of the industry for as long as I can remember, so at least I didn't have to watch as any care for audio fidelity slipped out of the consumer's fingers through the late 90s and early 00s. A few comments:
1. If you can get a hold of this rip, do so, regardless of whether you have a fancy sound card that can output 24/96. If your speakers cost under a grand there's almost no chance you'd even be able to discern between 24/96 and 16/44 of the same master, but the difference between masters (regardless of resolution) is night and day.
2. It is incredibly disconcerting to see that they went to the care to produce this "proper" master, then put in extra effort to intentionally sabotage it for the CD. After years of getting worked up about every other new release, I've almost resigned myself to audiophiles (and all who give two shits about quality) losing the loudness war... but seeing this master is just salt in the wound. I can only wonder how many other wonderful albums that have been ruined by awful production and mastering have similar copies sitting in some dark warehouse owned by the big record companies.
3. Someone on the last page hit the nail on the head: most artists don't care about, or even understand, the issue. It's just an unfortunate reality that most of us are either left-brained or right-brained, and many (not all) highly-productive creative artists like musicians are not analytical enough to care about this type of technical mumbo jumbo. And if they don't care, then mastering decisions come down to soulless executives who'd be happy to shit all over the DARK SIDE OF THE MOON of our generation and clip it to hell if their narrow-minded market studies suggested it might add 4% to first-week sales.
EDIT: Figures, fucking buffoons screwed up the track transitions in the HD master by inserting silence. I guess it's just that difficult to get this stuff right when it's your livelihood. Fuck this industry, lol.
After I converted to apple lossless I don't notice any gaps in the playback or transitions.
I want to know if an alternative master for DIAMOND EYES exists
if somebody feels caritative, please pm me this 96khz rip. I'm not able to buy the motherfucker digitally, but at least i'm buying the cd, so money goes to the deftones. (well, metaphorically, at least)
dont be fooled though.
when you listen to the 24 bit release, yes. it sounds "noticeable softer" than the mp3, or flac rips.
though when you listen it with proper equipment, you should be able to notice the greater extention of the instruments, separation and fidelity all around. it is not a listen for all.
downloading this illegally because i already bought the cd.
Quote from: gui on Nov 18, 2012, 04:22 PM
downloading this illegally because i already bought the cd.
Can you tell me where you found it?
Quote from: N0S3BLEED976 on Nov 18, 2012, 04:51 PM
Quote from: gui on Nov 18, 2012, 04:22 PM
downloading this illegally because i already bought the cd.
Can you tell me where you found it?
He's probably just stating his intention to download it. As in "I am going to download this illegally because I've already bought the CD."
Quote from: Numina on Nov 18, 2012, 04:56 PM
Quote from: N0S3BLEED976 on Nov 18, 2012, 04:51 PM
Quote from: gui on Nov 18, 2012, 04:22 PM
downloading this illegally because i already bought the cd.
Can you tell me where you found it?
He's probably just stating his intention to download it. As in "I am going to download this illegally because I've already bought the CD."
Yeah, I think you're right. Silly me...
on waffles
Hm, I've already heard of that immense dynamic loss on cd masterings, compared to their vinyl counterparts, for the sake of a higher endvolume.
Now I'm gonna check these hd tracks out for sure.
Quote from: gui on Nov 18, 2012, 05:12 PM
on waffles
I don't understand all the talk about waffles?? Waffles.fm has been bringing me to a bs recipe wiki site every time lol. What?
EDIT: Nvm lol weird...http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090827110533AAdEecU (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090827110533AAdEecU)
PM please? Sounds rad.
I really want these HD tracks, can someone PM me a link please?
There on what and waffles right now.they should find there way to piratebay soon enough.
CDs have been sounding like crap since the mid 90s. This is nothing new. Hd tracks are cool but its 2012. Should've known the cd was gonna sound bad. They all do. So, do what I do. Buy the vinyl and use the Dow load card. If it doesn't come with one, but the cd, rip it to your iTunes, iPhone 79, Galaxy s 2554, whatever, and be done with it. That way you get the best of both worlds and you're getting awesome quality master tracks with the vinyl.
It's not a matter of if it can sound good on cd. It can. Fact is its not going to. Buy a 5 pack of blank DVDs at Walgreens for 3 dollars, burn it I iTunes, and play it on your computer. Or install a DVD player in your car and play it in your car. Whatever works
Man, Stephen's guitar on Poltergeist has way more low end cut, it really sounds crisp.. Wtf, it's like the bass, guitar are alot more muddied together on the CD compared to these .. This is just Flac format on the HD site, correct?
Quote from: aeroplume on Nov 18, 2012, 07:38 PM
CDs have been sounding like crap since the mid 90s. This is nothing new. Hd tracks are cool but its 2012. Should've known the cd was gonna sound bad. They all do. So, do what I do. Buy the vinyl and use the Dow load card. If it doesn't come with one, but the cd, rip it to your iTunes, iPhone 79, Galaxy s 2554, whatever, and be done with it. That way you get the best of both worlds and you're getting awesome quality master tracks with the vinyl.
Except that vinyl is inherently noisy and inferior because of the physical limitations of analog playback. There's absolutely no reason that vinyl should sound better, other than mastering engineers intentionally crippling the copies that are pressed to CD for clueless, iPod earbud-listening consumers.
I'm a member of What.CD, and I've grabbed several high-resolution (24/96) vinyl rips over the years. In some cases, they were ripped by a dude that's supposed to have the best equipment in the land, and dozens of downloaders compulsively raved that "OMG it beatz the CD hands down!!!!1" But to me, they
always disappointed. Hissing, clicks and pops are simply inevitable, and cannot be fully removed. The "dynamic range limitations" of redbook CD are, for all intents and purposes, unnoticeable to the human ear on listening equipment that mortals can afford. A well-produced and well-mastered record can sound absolutely stellar on CD, with no need for improvement.
Note that I'm not necessarily arguing with you, as you clearly recognize the problem with many CDs is the master, not the format itself. Still, barring the somewhat-unusual digital release of this alternate master we got with KNY, the "alternative" of ripping vinyl comes with its own set of formidable drawbacks that sometimes are enough to offset the better-sounding master.
double-post
Wow! Found that on a russian forum (I love russian's piracy) lol. http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php (http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php) Is it legal to post another forum link here? Well, good luck, you have to register and then search for it!
Preety cool btw!!! Great quality!!!
Quote from: Alxn on Nov 18, 2012, 10:38 PM
Wow! Found that on a russian forum (I love russian's piracy) lol. http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php (http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php) Is it legal to post another forum link here? Well, good luck, you have to register and then search for it!
Preety cool btw!!! Great quality!!!
i dont understand fucking shit
If someone could convert it to mp3 and upload to Dropbox that'd be nice of you.
Quote from: cvthedrv on Nov 18, 2012, 10:47 PM
Quote from: Alxn on Nov 18, 2012, 10:38 PM
Wow! Found that on a russian forum (I love russian's piracy) lol. http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php (http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php) Is it legal to post another forum link here? Well, good luck, you have to register and then search for it!
Preety cool btw!!! Great quality!!!
i dont understand fucking shit
me neither man!!! but on google chrome you have an option to translate pages to your language!!! It's not perfect but you can recognize the main buttons like REGISTER, LOG IN and DOWNLOAD you know? just try it!!! it's better than pay $20 to hear it!
The drums are too low in the mix. It drives me insane on Graphic Nature because the beat in the song is fucking awesome.
So much better it's good to hear Deftones the way they should sound i can finally tell my subs on
so with this HD downloads site... how does it get hi def versions? and does the money go to the label etc?
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 19, 2012, 12:24 AM
So much better it's good to hear Deftones the way they should sound i can finally tell my subs on
yeah. I finally got the hdtracks-version and I think its a huge difference, way better, much more brilliant, more dynamics in it, you can clearly hear what every instrument is actually doing and for everyone being into drumsounds or just being a abe-fanboy (like me): you need to hear this. Compared to the Itunes-Digital Version (my preorder- package with the cd hasnt arrived til today...) the drums almost sound as if its a different set.
how are you supposed to burn this to listen on a cd player? 2 cd-r's or a dvd-r or what?
You have to convert it down to a lesser quality but in all reality it's going to sound better than the cd/digital version because of the source. I mean people go on about the quality and such but it's like c'mon man. You got God ears? You can hear what nobody else can? Give me a break.
I only buy vinyl. First thing I ever bought off iTunes was the new album and I was pissed about that because its deftones and i couldnt wait to hear the record. Should have bought the cd, taken my laptop to the musi store and ripped it there. That way I could have gotten trade in. But what's done is done. I'll do it next time. When it's out on vinyl I'll have it.
You won't notice much difference unless you are using decent speakers all the components just sound clearer it's not just a flat wall of sound there's more peak and valleys in this version
Sorry for the triple post, but like there's an audible difference between 320 mp3s and flac anyway. We're not talking about a rare pink Floyd show that needs to be kept in flac because it was a rare roger waters performance that was played in his bathroom the size of my apartment. Flac is great for said recordings but this isn't the case here. Takes up too much space on computers for something the vast majority of people can't tell the difference between. Roll Tide.
Not dogging the hd tracks. I bet try sound great. I'm holding out for the vinyl. The iTunes release will hold me over for now.
You know you can just modify your previous posts you don't need to post again lol
Lol posting from my phone and I haven't posted in a while. Plus I'm having some gentlemen jack. Anyone listen to the other albums on vinyl? Much better than the cd counterparts.
Quote from: Alxn on Nov 18, 2012, 10:38 PM
Wow! Found that on a russian forum (I love russian's piracy) lol. http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php (http://rutracker.org/forum/index.php) Is it legal to post another forum link here? Well, good luck, you have to register and then search for it!
Preety cool btw!!! Great quality!!!
THANK YOU
not too much......... but just enough
sounds better in headphones ..cant wait to hear it in the chariot
thank you
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 19, 2012, 06:09 AM
You won't notice much difference unless you are using decent speakers...
I have to disagree here. I heard a major difference on headphones, but even on my 60euro "creative"-pc-gaming speakers its a huge difference. Im sure that it willl be way better on a decent stereo but even on cheap equipment you can hear the difference clearly.
ok i'm sorry for my ignorance here, but... does all this FLAC files have a better quality than mp3s??? I mean, ALL flacs are better than mp3 (even if it is 320kbps) ??
I have downloaded a flac player app for my iPod, and this shit sounds great! I was so insecure about downloading flacs and right now I only want to download flac shits!! hahha
Quote from: cheachea on Nov 18, 2012, 08:33 AM
Meh, I think the cd version sounds fine.
*I hated the Remastered version of The Cure's- Disintegration cd. The 1989 original cd version is way better.
* I actually like the Remastered version of Glass Jaw's- Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Silence on itunes. It sounds better than the original, but doesn't take away the atmosphere or feeling of the original .
Glassjaw didn't approve of the remaster.
Quote from: Alxn on Nov 19, 2012, 08:24 PM
ok i'm sorry for my ignorance here, but... does all this FLAC files have a better quality than mp3s??? I mean, ALL flacs are better than mp3 (even if it is 320kbps) ??
I have downloaded a flac player app for my iPod, and this shit sounds great! I was so insecure about downloading flacs and right now I only want to download flac shits!! hahha
2794 kbps on the KNY Master compared to the lossy 320kbps is your indicator that you have masterpiece quality.
I'll say it again, but I want a studio master of Diamond Eyes... I think this suffers a bit of the same problem. The last record mastered perfectly in my opinion was the S/T. Every instrument sounds perfect in the mix.
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 19, 2012, 09:57 PM
I'll say it again, but I want a studio master of Diamond Eyes... I think this suffers a bit of the same problem. The last record mastered perfectly in my opinion was the S/T. Every instrument sounds perfect in the mix.
thats due too:
terry v/s nick
are the real lyrics in the booklet?
found this through filestube more than a week ago
You people are making too much of it. It doesn't really sound any better to me in the previews. I'm just sick of production/mixing/mastering criticism. Yes it's not the best produced cd in the world but it's plenty good enough.
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 19, 2012, 11:58 PM
Quote from: whiskeyandwine on Nov 19, 2012, 09:57 PM
I'll say it again, but I want a studio master of Diamond Eyes... I think this suffers a bit of the same problem. The last record mastered perfectly in my opinion was the S/T. Every instrument sounds perfect in the mix.
thats due too:
terry v/s nick
Terry did a great job for Deftones several records in a row, but I'll never in my life forgive him for what he did to dredg on Catch Without Arms. It's just kind of funny, being a newcomer to this board, seeing everyone sing his praises. I hated him more than any man on earth for about a year after that record came out!
The mix on the Nick-produced records hasn't been the best, but the overall sound isn't bad. I've heard far worse. His production isn't exquisite and doesn't necessarily elevate DE/KNY to their greatest potential, but it doesn't completely ruin them either... which far too many rock producers these days do.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
I listen to music through headphones.
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
? Where is it on this Russian site??
Quote from: jujuslim on Nov 20, 2012, 04:06 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
? Where is it on this Russian site??
You have to sign up and then you just search koi no yokan it's the one around a gig in size
Quote from: bewareofrats on Nov 20, 2012, 02:23 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
I listen to music through headphones.
Exactly.
The HD files and the CD, even with compression, don't make a significant difference. I own high end audio speakers, headphones, etc. and this difference is marginal. People make entirely too big a deal about this shit and probably can't tell up from down anymore, they're so worried that the music is compressed or clipped.
Over-analyzing is what saps music of its vitality, not some shitty producer.
I don't usually care about getting flac files and stuff or the technical stuff like compression it just purely sounds better to me
I'm fine with the cd.
Quote from: Black on Nov 20, 2012, 04:48 AM
Quote from: bewareofrats on Nov 20, 2012, 02:23 AM
Quote from: DeftonesNZ on Nov 20, 2012, 02:15 AM
Someone already posted the site you can get it from earlier that russian on,and yes it does sound better try listening to it on a proper surround sound system and you will notice the improvement
I listen to music through headphones.
Exactly.
The HD files and the CD, even with compression, don't make a significant difference. I own high end audio speakers, headphones, etc. and this difference is marginal. People make entirely too big a deal about this shit and probably can't tell up from down anymore, they're so worried that the music is compressed or clipped.
Over-analyzing is what saps music of its vitality, not some shitty producer.
It's too bad your attitude is so prevalent in the general public, or maybe we'd actually get well-produced albums more than 20% of the time these days.
I'm sorry, but I can't stand remarks along the lines of: "just shut up and enjoy the music, quit overanalyzing!" Bad production bothers me to the point that I
can't enjoy the music. And even mediocre production makes music noticeably less enjoyable than pristine production. Sensitivity to technical aspects of the audio isn't a bad thing.
I'll concede that KNY isn't that bad to begin with, and I don't find myself continuously obsessing over the production while listening. Also, it's true that the difference between the CD and HDTracks master isn't huge. Still, I don't think anyone should be making any excuses for brickwalled masters and overcompression. It's entirely preventable and has no upside. These guys get paid to engineer audio to make it sound the best it possibly can, and anything short of excellence in that regard is worthy of criticism.
Quote from: bewareofrats on Nov 20, 2012, 02:12 AM
You people are making too much of it. It doesn't really sound any better to me in the previews. I'm just sick of production/mixing/mastering criticism. Yes it's not the best produced cd in the world but it's plenty good enough.
the previews are not valid references for 24 bit music reproduction. you have to hear it, with proper enabled equipment.
Well, I have to say it's not a night and day difference but I can definitely hear a separation of the instruments more, especially Frank's little touches stand out FAR more. And there's not the almost static-like sound of it being too loud. It may sound extreme but hearing all of Frank's work, especially in songs like "Gauze" makes me like the album a lot more.
For the second time, there is no audible difference between 320 mp3s and flac files. No. Audible. Difference. Whatsoever.
Not stating that there is not a difference, because technically there is, but there is no audible difference.
Quote from: aeroplume on Nov 20, 2012, 05:44 PM
For the second time, there is no audible difference between 320 mp3s and flac files. No. Audible. Difference. Whatsoever.
16 years of digital music experience says, there is.
This isn't even a question of audiophile or not. It's whether you care to listen to high-quality or not. There's audible difference if you listen to instrument separation and clipping of the tracks. You should also get rid of your iBuds because they won't cut it when actually trying to compare fidelity. There are many cheap choice hi-fidelity headphones and stereos out there. If you buy a $25 pair of Sennheiser buds, I promise you, your ears will be able to hear a difference.
I had to actually sign on to say this, because I am actually happy there are people on this forum that understand audio recording. If this stuff didn't matter, then the music industry should just bypass audio mastering all together, and screw mic placement ... let's just put a single vocal mic in front of the band and press the button with red dot on it.
Quote from: medic1 on Nov 20, 2012, 06:10 PM
If this stuff didn't matter, then the music industry should just bypass audio mastering all together, and screw mic placement ... let's just put a single vocal mic in front of the band and press the button with red dot on it.
You know most of the society is like that, but instead of a cassette recorder like in 80s they now use that iHearSomething from AppleLemon and press play just because people want it easy.
It does sound different i guess some people just can't hear it,it's hard to explain but each element sounds more individual
Quote from: Slacker on Nov 20, 2012, 05:56 PM
Quote from: aeroplume on Nov 20, 2012, 05:44 PM
For the second time, there is no audible difference between 320 mp3s and flac files. No. Audible. Difference. Whatsoever.
16 years of digital music experience says, there is.
I consider myself pretty sensitive to audio quality, and own a decent (though not fancy) setup with bookshelf speakers and Grado headphones. Personally, I'm not sure I've ever been able to discern between lossless audio and 320kbps MP3. I still strongly prefer lossless, and will only purchase digital downloads if they're FLAC/WAV, but my reasoning is more for the ability to transcode to different formats than being able to hear a difference. I don't doubt that those with 95th-percentile hearing and $5000 speakers can tell in some cases, though.
OTOH, I don't even know why 320kbps came up in the first place, because these HDTracks files are FLAC. If aeroplume's point is that a 320kbps conversion of these HDtracks files is sufficient for most listeners, I'd agree. The difference in the mastering is probably about 500x more significant than any difference between FLAC and 320 MP3.
Quote from: mrpelon94 on Nov 19, 2012, 08:43 PM
Glassjaw didn't approve of the remaster.
[/quote]
Interesting, I didn't know that.
Yes. There is a difference. I never said there wasnt. My point was that the vast majority of people don't
have Jesus ears.
someone make a meme
(http://cdn1.hark.com/images/000/017/663/17663/original.0)
"I dont always listen to KOI NO YOKAN....
but when I do its in quality most people caNt configure .."
Hah. That's funny.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30560465.jpg)
thank you much brother
I think the FLAC master sounds fantastic compared to the CD's master. I'm not saying the CD is awful, just that the lossless master is notably superior. Abe's drums shine now, and the album sounds more open and spacious, like it can finally breath. Everything on the CD feels a little claustrophobic and cramped.
Much respect,
-Matt
possible to get a pm of a direct link? That russian website is messing with my mind
[/thread]
Can I get a pm of the HD version, por favor?
I don't think anyone is pm-ing a link some guy already posted the site it's on earlier it's the rutracker one you have to setup an account first then just search Koi No Yokan and it's like the first one
I got it from the russian site, and yes there is a huge difference, but that is listening to it on my home theater system, the drums are louder and Chino's vocals sound a lot more clear, plus the bass is BIG.
Damn I want to buy it but on the HDtracks site, they state that it is the exact same thing as the CD version...if you look in the FAQ section
Quote from: punkflop01 on Nov 22, 2012, 09:53 AM
Damn I want to buy it but on the HDtracks site, they state that it is the exact same thing as the CD version...if you look in the FAQ section
Probably in relation to the tracklisting, trust me there is a difference in quality, if there wasn't then what would be the point in making it available?
Yeah, I just used the Russian site--Google translate or use Chrome, and sign up. Haha, I was tripping out at first because I couldn't find a search feature before I signed up, but that's because it doesn't exist for non-members. It's definitely worth a download! I felt slightly guilty about not purchasing it, but I already bought the album twice, the knowledge of which allowed me to stifle my guilt long enough to finish the download, haha.
Much respect,
-Matt
That rutracker site is awesome.next best thing to the big double Ws.
First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.
Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.
Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.
Even if FLAC files are made of the CD you might be able to tell the difference if your soundcards D-A converters are more high end than your CD-players D-A converters. Then again you need high end speakers for this.
For the most part I would say it's just placebo =)
PS I don't really understand listening stereo material in a surround system. Sure it will sound different and somewhat "advanced" but it's not sounding like it's supposed to by a person who mixed it in only two channels; left and right.
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 23, 2012, 03:46 AM
First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.
Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.
Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.
There is no doubt that the masters are significantly different. Just look at the waveforms (http://f.cl.ly/items/1Z0A152y2628133r2r2q/Screen%20Shot%202012-11-15%20at%207.04.20%20PM.png).
I'm not saying that the HDTracks version is light years better, but it's certainly less compressed and it doesn't clip. Obviously, as can be seen in the waveforms, the HD master is going to be a lot quieter overall. That makes it hard to do a direct comparison, because you almost need to turn your volume knob up a few notches for the HDTracks files to make it fair.
Too many people are wandering into this thread without listening to the new files and assume the only difference is that the HDTracks is available in 24/96. Neither I nor anyone else thinks that 24/96 is going to make a big difference over 16/44, all else being equal. It's a different master, and even a 192kbps MP3 copy of it would sound better than the CD.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Nov 23, 2012, 05:38 AM
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 23, 2012, 03:46 AM
First of all.. FLAC doesn't regardless mean better sound quality. It depends on the source material of which the FLAC files are made of. After that it depends on your sound system and every component in it.
Second.. I don't believe there is different masters of Koi No Yokan (except for the vinyl). Big studios today record in 24-bit / 96K (or even more but for the point here it doesn't matter) and the mastering is done in that same resolution which the original audio is recorded. After that they reduce the resolution to CD format which is 16-bit / 44K.
Now if the FLAC files that HDTracks.com offer are compressed of these original high resolution master files BEFORE they've reduced the resolution to CD format in the mastering then you might be able to tell the difference BUT with 24-bit / 96K soundcard and high end speakers / headphones.
There is no doubt that the masters are significantly different. Just look at the waveforms (http://f.cl.ly/items/1Z0A152y2628133r2r2q/Screen%20Shot%202012-11-15%20at%207.04.20%20PM.png).
I'm not saying that the HDTracks version is light years better, but it's certainly less compressed and it doesn't clip. Obviously, as can be seen in the waveforms, the HD master is going to be a lot quieter overall. That makes it hard to do a direct comparison, because you almost need to turn your volume knob up a few notches for the HDTracks files to make it fair.
Too many people are wandering into this thread without listening to the new files and assume the only difference is that the HDTracks is available in 24/96. Neither I nor anyone else thinks that 24/96 is going to make a big difference over 16/44, all else being equal. It's a different master, and even a 192kbps MP3 copy of it would sound better than the CD.
You are right: waveforms are different and it seems there is a slight compression in 16-bit version.
Did my own little testing tho.. Results are interesting! :D
- Bought the HDTracks 24-bit version.
- Imported (lossless) swerve city, entombed and graphic nature off my Koi No Yokan CD.
- Loaded them up in Ableton (setted up sample rate in 96k)
- Lowered 16-bit versions about 5db to get them on the same "audible volume level" with 24-bit versions to do a A/B comparising.
Listened the versions with Beyerdynamic DT-990 headphones plugged into Motu Traveler soundcard (with sample rate setted up in 96k).
What I gathered is this: When you listen to the versions in lower volume level (from the soundcard) let's say around -35 to -30db you CAN actually head the difference. It's very subtle. And it's only at the very high end of the material. Meaning cymbals, crashes etc. Didn't notice anything in guitars, vocals or the stereo imaging. There might be (and I assume there is) also difference in lower frequencies but for that I would need a subwoofer to really analyze it. As soon as I raised the volume from the soundcard the differences between the versions started to even out and when I reached in about -15db to -10db (above that it would start to hurt ears) there was practicaly no difference at all.
I also made my own 16-bit / 44K coversion from the 24-bit / 96K FLAC file and compared it to a (the 5db lowered) CD rip. There was a very very subtle difference only on a very low volume level (-40db where you can barely hear the music)
I also listened the versions with my about Senheisers CX300II plugs plugged straight into MacBook Pro with Ableton still setted up to 96k sample rate: There is no difference at all no matter the volume level I listened them. Ofcourse there would be audible VOLUME level difference if I'd raise 16-bit versions back to 0db.
I'm not a professional mastering engineer (but I know a bit about it.. and a bit more about recording and mixing) so I don't actually know what they do to a 24-bit / 96K (assuming this is the original recording format) file to convert it to CD-quality in mastering. I just simply exported the FLAC file as 16-bit / 44K. Maybe they compress it a bit also on the way. Maybe it actually is a different master in that sense.
This is for sure: 24-bit got wider dynamic range (and with 96K there is also "more room" for higher and lower frequencies) than 16-bit and it's audible with the proper equipment.
Apart from all that techtalk this I also know for sure: I fucking love Koi No Yokan with my Senheisers plugged into my iPod equally as much as I love it with those Beyerdynamics plugged into a Motu :)
Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.
For those who wish to have their FLAC files in iTunes - I converted the files to AIFF using XLD - but my iPod is old (apparently) so it doesn't support AIFF or Apple Lossless files, so I had to settle for LAME Mp3 which *sighs* will do, I guess. Haha
Anyone listen to the record on spotify? It sounds better than the CD does to me.
Quote from: NicholasHume on Nov 24, 2012, 01:11 AM
For those who wish to have their FLAC files in iTunes - I converted the files to AIFF using XLD - but my iPod is old (apparently) so it doesn't support AIFF or Apple Lossless files, so I had to settle for LAME Mp3 which *sighs* will do, I guess. Haha
If you decompres the FLAC,to 16 bit. WAV,it will work.also for old ipods there's plenty of firmware to let it play .FLAC.you can also use foobar 2000 with the ipod plugin to add flac to it.
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 24, 2012, 01:06 AM
Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.
There you go: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649)
http://www.mediafire.com/?f4i4ijciraiukwy (http://www.mediafire.com/?f4i4ijciraiukwy) here a link for the torrent :)
Thanks to whiskeyandwine and Slacker for the advice. Just d/led the HDtracks version and bumped up my sound card and holy shit.
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 24, 2012, 03:07 AM
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 24, 2012, 01:06 AM
Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.
There you go: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649)
Thanks but I've already bought the cassette single ($15 with an album d/l that doesn't work), the CD ($12.98) and the vinyl ($24.99). I'm not looking to drop another $20 on this album just so I can get the decent listen that I should have been privy to already.
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 27, 2012, 10:22 AM
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 24, 2012, 03:07 AM
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 24, 2012, 01:06 AM
Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.
There you go: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649)
Thanks but I've already bought the cassette single ($15 with an album d/l that doesn't work), the CD ($12.98) and the vinyl ($24.99). I'm not looking to drop another $20 on this album just so I can get the decent listen that I should have been privy to already.
Yeah i wasn't willing to spend anymore money for the same songs there's a torrent download link on one of the earlier pages
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 27, 2012, 10:22 AM
Quote from: Sunbath on Nov 24, 2012, 03:07 AM
Quote from: Hesperian Death-Horse! on Nov 24, 2012, 01:06 AM
Does anyone have a link for download of this version? I've been dicking with rutracker for about 10 minutes and can't manage do find shit.
There you go: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD093624946649)
Thanks but I've already bought the cassette single ($15 with an album d/l that doesn't work), the CD ($12.98) and the vinyl ($24.99). I'm not looking to drop another $20 on this album just so I can get the decent listen that I should have been privy to already.
Good for you, seriously. As much as I like having this record available in audiophile quality, I feel like the entire HDTracks premise almost amounts to extortion of those who care about good sound. If we all pony up the exorbitant $20 they want for the same album we already bought, what's to stop record companies from thinking "hmm, maybe we should purposely brickwall the mastering on ALL our albums so as to necessitate more profitable HDTracks sales to audiophiles, who will likely still buy the CD regardless?"
If it were just extra to get 24/96, that would be one thing. It's the fact that we're supposed to pay up just to hear a decent master that gets me.
pm, guys. :)
Quote from: NicholasHume on Nov 24, 2012, 01:11 AM
For those who wish to have their FLAC files in iTunes - I converted the files to AIFF using XLD - but my iPod is old (apparently) so it doesn't support AIFF or Apple Lossless files, so I had to settle for LAME Mp3 which *sighs* will do, I guess. Haha
Won't it lose quality if you change it from FLAC to AIFF? I mean, I know they are both lossless formats but when you convert it from one format to another did it still stay as a 24 bit file with 96000hz sampling rate? I am wondering this because I would also like to put this on my iPod as I think the HD master sounds absolutely gorgeous.
does ipod support 24 bit?
my sis got herself and ipad, and she had to get a freaking 24/96 matrix adapter that works a a DAC and supports the 24 bit, then she sends the signal through out coaxial cable to a portable amplifier, and then to the headphones...
Regarding the HDtracks version of the album. I love it!
Not that the original was bad, but I prefer the dynamic range of the 24/96 version over the squeezed compression on the CD. The albums breathes more and the drums and Franks parts are more noticeable. The bass seems better, but my monitors aren't capable of the really deep bass.
I wish more artists released alternate versions of their music in high quality that is less compressed/loud. Because if you listen to this album in the same DB range as the CD version your ears will have less fatigue, which is a problem with so many of the albums that are released, RHCP's Californication being one of the more egregious examples of the loudness wars and ear fatigue happening almost immediately.
A few Years back Nine Inch Nails released their album "The Slip" for free, not a penny was needed to download in high quality Mp3 or the superior 24 bit 96 hz quality.
I know Trent and Nine Inch Nails is different in that he was free from a record label and has a bit larger fan base, but the fact remains that artists who release their music in multiple formats please their fans even greater. Often times its the little things that keep people listening to the music years later.
I applaud Deftones for having this released in HQ and think more bands should do this.
I don't believe that Ipods support 24 bit natively, I could be wrong, but most audiophiles will tell you that Ipods aren't really meant for the highest quality DAC, they are meant for the average Joe who just wants to hear music and could care less about lossless music.
Most people can't hear the difference between 192 mp3's and their WAV counterparts, so Apple and the rest don't have to worry about "subpar bitrate" rants being thrown their way.
I would also love a link to this. I would just rebuy it but I've already bought the CD twice and I dont feel like forking out another 20 bucks for a slightly better sounding copy.
Quote from: Ataraxia2320 on Apr 06, 2016, 01:39 AM
I would also love a link to this. I would just rebuy it but I've already bought the CD twice and I dont feel like forking out another 20 bucks for a slightly better sounding copy.
Same
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 02:14 AM
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
Ugh
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 02:14 AM
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
wouldn't this be the "HDTracks" version
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467 (http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467)
96/24
Quote from: sharinglungs on Apr 06, 2016, 03:26 AM
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 02:14 AM
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
wouldn't this be the "HDTracks" version
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467 (http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467)
Hmm, good find. That's promising.
The real issue is whether they produced an audiophile-oriented master, separate from the CD master (which is brickwalled and loses a lot of the dynamics).
It's possible the Qobuz hi-fi version is from a separate master; it's also possible, if not likely, that such a master would be what's pressed to vinyl (assuming two masters were made). If so, we're in luck. Personally, I'm really hoping for a digital download of the audiophile version (via Qobuz, HDTracks, or wherever), because vinyl rips have a lot of unnecessary background noise.
If the Qobuz copy is just higher bitrate, but it's the same master used for the CD, it's all but useless though. Given the exact same source material, practically no one can hear the difference between CD quality (16/44) and 24/96, especially with audio equipment affordable by mere mortals.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 03:38 AM
Quote from: sharinglungs on Apr 06, 2016, 03:26 AM
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 02:14 AM
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
wouldn't this be the "HDTracks" version
There's this site that's pretty kick ass... especially when you search for hdtracks...
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467 (http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467)
Hmm, good find. That's promising.
The real issue is whether they produced an audiophile-oriented master, separate from the CD master (which is brickwalled and loses a lot of the dynamics).
It's possible the Qobuz hi-fi version is from a separate master; it's also possible, if not likely, that such a master would be what's pressed to vinyl (assuming two masters were made). If so, we're in luck. Personally, I'm really hoping for a digital download of the audiophile version (via Qobuz, HDTracks, or wherever), because vinyl rips have a lot of unnecessary background noise.
If the Qobuz copy is just higher bitrate, but it's the same master used for the CD, it's all but useless though. Given the exact same source material, practically no one can hear the difference between CD quality (16/44) and 24/96, especially with audio equipment affordable by mere mortals.
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 03:38 AM
Quote from: sharinglungs on Apr 06, 2016, 03:26 AM
Quote from: ominousnimbus on Apr 06, 2016, 02:14 AM
Looks like this discussion will be relevant to Gore, unsurprisingly. A ReplayGain scan of the CD rip gives a -11.32 dB adjustment for the album. ::)
So, unless we get an HDTracks version, audiophiles will once again be left searching for a pristine vinyl rip to hear the dynamics.
wouldn't this be the "HDTracks" version
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467 (http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/gore-deftones/0093624926467)
Hmm, good find. That's promising.
The real issue is whether they produced an audiophile-oriented master, separate from the CD master (which is brickwalled and loses a lot of the dynamics).
It's possible the Qobuz hi-fi version is from a separate master; it's also possible, if not likely, that such a master would be what's pressed to vinyl (assuming two masters were made). If so, we're in luck. Personally, I'm really hoping for a digital download of the audiophile version (via Qobuz, HDTracks, or wherever), because vinyl rips have a lot of unnecessary background noise.
If the Qobuz copy is just higher bitrate, but it's the same master used for the CD, it's all but useless though. Given the exact same source material, practically no one can hear the difference between CD quality (16/44) and 24/96, especially with audio equipment affordable by mere mortals.
You will almost certainly gain something as the master will have been done at at least 24bit if not higher and then downsampled to 16bit for CD, given how good the KNY HDtracks version was i'm pretty confident and look forward to hearing this version..