Sharing Lungs - Deftones Online Community

I had to register here just to post this.
I hope this forum can handle negative criticism, without deleting topics.

I am a VERY long time Deftones fan. I have listened to them since they had a sort demo for Adrenaline, and then I grabbed a copy of like Linus, so we are talking a long time.

Throughout all of their changes, I have never had a bad thing to say about them. They have always been masterful and awe inspiring when it comes to how they evolve.

I have my own background in music, I have also helped offshoot a few pretty popular bands as well, so I know how hard the job is to do what they do.

That all being said, Gore is horrible.

The production is really bad. The songs sound like bad versions of Palms songs. Chinos vocals are bad and it sounds like Stephen had nothing to do with it.

I am heartbroken.

I have never felt this way about anything they have done and I am getting the same reaction from other people I know in the industry who are also shocked by it.

If I feel this way, and all of the people I know, feel this way, then why is this album getting lip service, with anything negative getting blotted out? I feel they really need to know that this album is a wreck, so that they can avoid doing it again in the future.

I'm sure some blinded people will flame away, but I assure you, I am about as die hard of a Deftones fan as you can be.

I'm curious to see other detailed thoughts from knowledgeable people on these things. To me, it really seems that Stephs influence was blocked and it killed this album.

sup jaypayton?

Couple thoughts:

1. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine, however, is completely different than yours. Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

2. Isn't Like Linus more or less the Adrenaline demo? Is that what you mean?

3. "Bad versions of Palms songs"...so, basically, Palms songs? I have no problems with Chino's Gore vocals (besides parts of Doomed User). I'll give you that there's some spotty production, but Gore's vocals and production absolutely blow vocals and production on Palms out of the water, IMO. I don't really get the Palms comparisons, to be honest. Palms is summery post-rock, while Gore is grungy alternative metal.

4. Anyway, if Gore isn't for you, it isn't for you. I'm not the biggest fan of KNY besides a few songs, so I don't listen to it much. There's other people who can't stand S/T and SNW. If you love seven out of eight of their albums, stick with the other seven albums and don't listen to Gore. Simple as that. And the mostly positive feedback on the album isn't "lip service". Maybe others actually just enjoy the album?

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 18, 2016, 07:59 AM
Couple thoughts:

1. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine, however, is completely different than yours. Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

2. Isn't Like Linus more or less the Adrenaline demo? Is that what you mean?

3. "Bad versions of Palms songs"...so, basically, Palms songs? I have no problems with Chino's Gore vocals (besides parts of Doomed User). I'll give you that there's some spotty production, but Gore's vocals and production absolutely blow vocals and production on Palms out of the water, IMO. I don't really get the Palms comparisons, to be honest. Palms is summery post-rock, while Gore is grungy alternative metal.

Because everything is just bland.

And vocally, he is pretty bad on this album. He is losing his depth and things are sounding forced and placated.

Like Linus is the main demo, but while they were doing shows, they had a shorter demo. Like Linus is just the longer version with more songs on it.

As far as the problem with this album, I honestly don't know where it comes from. I just have a gut feeling, being that I have done this myself, the changes seem to come from the side projects. I happen to love Crosses, but Gore sounds like a side project album. Considering Chino is the one doing a million side projects, it stands to reason that he is the root cause of this.

Either way, I don't care about blame, I just want it recognized and fixed. This is one of the best bands in history and this is the first chink in their armor. I just don't want it to become catastrophic.

I have tried to force myself to like these songs, it just isn't possible. My woman who also loves them, can't stand it either.

This album was a mistake.

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 18, 2016, 07:59 AM
Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

Daaayumn niggy, kinda surprised with your opinion there.

Lol, yeah. I'm kinda surprised myself. Let's just pretend I never said it. : /

"They really need to know that this album is a wreck." Lol OK. Dude, I've heard overwhelmingly positive reviews from fans and reviews alike. The fact that you hate the album is fine, but your opinion isn't fact just because you've been a fan since forever, or because you're in the music industry or something. Different people like different things.

Stef didn't get any ideas for the album until the band had already started coming up with stuff, so yeah, Stef's ideas aren't on the album as much as they probably usually would. But that's his fault, and even if it's his fault, it happens. Hopefully next time he'll be more creative early into the process and have more input.

I think Chino's vocals sound great, with the exception of Doomed User like someone else said earlier. I'm not a big fan of the shout-scream he has, but dude can't scream as raw and visceral-sounding throughout an entire song like he used to, so he's just working with what he's got.

I've seen a few people compare Gore to Palms, which is weird because I hate Palms, I've never been able to get into it, so I don't get the comparisons.

Anyway, they never make the same album twice, so it sucks you don't like Gore, but who knows what they'll do in a few years? Either way, no, the album wasn't a mistake. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change anything for the band or for anyone else.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 18, 2016, 07:34 AM
I had to register here just to post this.
I hope this forum can handle negative criticism, without deleting topics.

I am a VERY long time Deftones fan. I have listened to them since they had a sort demo for Adrenaline, and then I grabbed a copy of like Linus, so we are talking a long time.

Throughout all of their changes, I have never had a bad thing to say about them. They have always been masterful and awe inspiring when it comes to how they evolve.

I have my own background in music, I have also helped offshoot a few pretty popular bands as well, so I know how hard the job is to do what they do.

That all being said, Gore is horrible.

The production is really bad. The songs sound like bad versions of Palms songs. Chinos vocals are bad and it sounds like Stephen had nothing to do with it.

I am heartbroken.

I have never felt this way about anything they have done and I am getting the same reaction from other people I know in the industry who are also shocked by it.

If I feel this way, and all of the people I know, feel this way, then why is this album getting lip service, with anything negative getting blotted out? I feel they really need to know that this album is a wreck, so that they can avoid doing it again in the future.

I'm sure some blinded people will flame away, but I assure you, I am about as die hard of a Deftones fan as you can be.

I'm curious to see other detailed thoughts from knowledgeable people on these things. To me, it really seems that Stephs influence was blocked and it killed this album.

I do not speak on SL's behalf BUT its not like you cant say your opinion in here. If its diferent from the majority of opinions in here and ppl rage about it, fuck them. So what? We gotta love every piece of work they put out? Fuck no...
That said, I do disagree with you, though. Its not my favorite album but its by far the best one since S/T (IMO).

I came to this conclusion when S/T came out that they better evolve to something diferent and new and maybe cause a little confusion betweem the fans, than just sit back and copy/paste what they already know that work. I dont want another ATF, or another WP. I want a good album, I dont care if its diferent. But, thats just me. At the end of the day, if we are able to tell: ok its something new and diferent, but still a Deftones record, I'm fine with it.

gore >>>> koi no yokan


on gore he actually sings within his range thank fucking god

Sorry you feel that way.

And; this opinion could have been posted in the topic about this album.

What about the people who like Gore and are Deftones fans? The opening statement (Cyndicate) sounds just a bit pretentious. "If me and my friends feel this way..." please stop.

Also, as far as blaming members and playing that whole game, it's not Chino. I think him and Abe make the band unique and stand out (personal opinion; disagreements allowed).

The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

Quote from: whitefur on Apr 18, 2016, 01:11 PM
The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

Seriously... Gore makes KNY and DE look awful by comparison.

I can say as a long time fan this is first album that has come out that I have been disappointed in.

Production is pretty bad, the mix in general- I am not an expert here but the guitar levels are not right in the mix, too high- Chino vocals are hard to here at times. Also the whole bass VI thing Sergio was excited about kinda fell flat for me. It didn't really add to the dynamics for me.

I am not sure if it's Chino of Stef but the song writing was bland- I wish they would write a decent bridge for once.

To me, ever since stef went past 6 strings his creativity in writing riffs has been steadily declining.


I know a lot of people are more than happy with this album and I envy them, I just can't seem to get into it.

One thing I will add, lyrically, I wish Chino would get past all the esoteric themes and just write how he used to about relationships and more situational/themed songs (ala passenger, feiticiera). I found those easier to get attached too.

I will probably do a breakdown in the Occult thread specifically about the lyrics but as anyone can tell the almost all the songs are about Chino battling his demons, he said as much in an interview recently regarding P/T. I wish he would keep those themes w/ crosses, and let deftones be something more urban and raw as it was before.

Once again this is just my opinion~ if you love Gore, more power to you.

I agree. Production is pretty terrible. I would always like to hear more Frank and Abe. They definitely got pushed back a bunch in the mix. (They usually make up for lack of Frank at their live shows, so it's always a treat to go see them and hear his contributions.)

I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Quote from: whitefur on Apr 18, 2016, 01:11 PM
The situation is interesting. I think Gore is better than KNY and DE. The construction of the songs is more intricate and the guitar riffs are better. But the production is effing HORRIBLE.

Saying that the songs are more intricately constructed and the guitar riffs are better is objectively false. At least for Stephen, Gore features probably some of his laziest riff writing to date.

Sure DE and to a far lesser extent KNY had some basic and bland riffage and songwriting, but it is no way near to the level found on Gore.

I think Gore is great, and is a marked improvement over DE and KNY. That said, I miss Chino singing softly on verses like he did all over S/T (Good Morning Beautiful comes to mind). That has always felt more authentic to me, where as now it feels like he's trying to be a singer. I don't know if that makes sense.

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:45 PM
Sure DE and to a far lesser extent KNY had some basic and bland riffage and songwriting, but it is no way near to the level found on Gore.

I'm not sure if he's ever come up with a more bland riff than YSTB.  Yet, that song is popular with the fans (for what reason I'm not exactly sure).  I wouldn't say it's "objectively false" that Gore is more creative than DE, because I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:40 PMI've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

Quote from: whitefur on Apr 18, 2016, 05:27 PM

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:40 PMI've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

Steph's guitar sounds like ass on the record.  Given that they weren't on a timetable (or so they've said), you'd think they would have spent more time and energy making sure the shit didn't sound like that.  I know they did spend a lot of time, but hearing the finished product they definitely should have spent MORE time on it.  Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 18, 2016, 05:50 PM

Quote from: whitefur on Apr 18, 2016, 05:27 PM

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:40 PMI've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

Yes, it's Stef's guitar......it's very harsh sounding.

Steph's guitar sounds like ass on the record.  Given that they weren't on a timetable (or so they've said), you'd think they would have spent more time and energy making sure the shit didn't sound like that.  I know they did spend a lot of time, but hearing the finished product they definitely should have spent MORE time on it.  Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

Been on this train for a while. Would love him to go back to 7.

I'm over the 8 string for sure. He wrote his best songs on the 6..and his heaviest songs on the 6.. I still really like Gore but I agree not crazy about the mix.. Abe not loud enough on a lot of tracks.. Still Lmirl to Rubicon is probably my favorite stretch of songs on any of their records.. Wish steph would go back to the 6 ( which is never happening) and wish they would go back to Terry.

Quote from: nicklav on Apr 18, 2016, 05:04 PM
I think Gore is great, and is a marked improvement over DE and KNY. That said, I miss Chino singing softly on verses like he did all over S/T (Good Morning Beautiful comes to mind). That has always felt more authentic to me, where as now it feels like he's trying to be a singer. I don't know if that makes sense.

Well, a lot of time has passed since that album, and so has his voice, so I'd say he's still being authentic, just that it's not in a way that your ideal Chino-voice sounds like. I get what you mean though, I do miss that, but hey, I'm not complaining, Gore is my third favourite.

It's funny how, when Prayers/Triangles and (especially) Doomed User were released, a lot of people were super-excited about how raw the production sounds, comparing it to Around the Fur and stuff, and now lots of people are saying the opposite. I guess it's had more time to sink in.

Production-wise, my only issue is with Frank's sounds. But Frank has never been loud enough for me.

problem is the whole post metal thing came and went around 2004-2007...Chino is a decade behind..the slow guitar noodling intro which lasts a couple minutes then the big heavy anthemic chorus with guitars crashing all around......ISIS was doing this in 2004....half the songs do sound like what Palms should have been

Quote from: jaypayton on Apr 18, 2016, 08:40 PMISIS was doing this in 2004....half the songs do sound like what Palms should have been

You really are looking deep for the issue aren't you

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 18, 2016, 05:50 PM
Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

I cant agree more. I thought i was alone in this.

Quote from: Far away on Apr 18, 2016, 09:17 PM

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 18, 2016, 05:50 PM
Also I think the 8 string is too much, the 7 was perfect but that 8 string just sounds shitty even in a good mix.

I cant agree more. I thought i was alone in this.

I thought the 8-string was really well rounded in Diamond Eyes (minus CMND/CTRL), and it would be interesting to hear how Steph used it on Eros.
However, it does quite flat on KNY, and really shitty on Gore (it just hurts my ears)

agree with ts.

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:40 PM
I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

LOL me too, I have been listening to it in my car, and I have to adjust the EQ practically song to song to make it sound good. It's Stef's guitar. For example on Hearts/Wires - starts off awesome but then on the chorus it's just a wall of detuned distortion, which I can't get to sound right- the low end is loose and the highs too crunchy, if that makes any sense?

Also Chino needs to ditch whatever effect he uses when he screams nowadays- that tinny/ harsh effect. it doesn't sound good.

It sucks because Stef's tone on ATF used to be favorite, I tried to emulate that sound when I used to play. Now his tone is just shit, even he says so in interviews. smh.

And Chino's vocals sound often dry and harsh- I have friends that aren't into the D'tones as much as I am and even they mention it.

I am not saying I hate this album, but it is sad to see these things continue to trend in the wrong direction IMO.

Got in the car today, with my phone on Bluetooth playing random songs. Knife Party comes on, that's Deftones. Then like 2 songs later, it plays one of the new tracks. Just didn't hold up at all, and I am trying, I am trying really hard.

On the comments about his guitar, he can make the 8 work if he wants, but they need an experienced producer to do it properly.

Some of the most intense riffs for me, are the simple ones.
Like on Comanche, the end of that song gets me in a mode.

That can be done on a 7, so maybe the 7 is the right choice. All I know, is that is not the problem. The whole process on this album was the problem.

This is from the original drummer for Straight Line Stitch, a good friend of mine:

"I am sure some of you may have never thought you would hear me say these words.... The new Deftones album is completely horrible. There may be one or two cool riffs on it but for the first time in the 21 years that I've Loved this band I just cannot Listen to This Record. It sounds like another Palms record and the mix is very lackluster. If you think this is a solid mix or a really good sounding mix I'm really glad that you are not an engineer. I still got love for them but not for this release. And to those of you who love it I wish I were with you on this one."

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 19, 2016, 12:14 AM
This is from the original drummer for Straight Line Stitch, a good friend of mine:

"I am sure some of you may have never thought you would hear me say these words.... The new Deftones album is completely horrible. There may be one or two cool riffs on it but for the first time in the 21 years that I've Loved this band I just cannot Listen to This Record. It sounds like another Palms record and the mix is very lackluster. If you think this is a solid mix or a really good sounding mix I'm really glad that you are not an engineer. I still got love for them but not for this release. And to those of you who love it I wish I were with you on this one."

I can definitely hear the mix all over the place, especially once I got some time in with headphones. I agree about it sounding like two different bands as well. I jammed S/T today and had the same reaction as you. Acid Hologram sort of hints at old Deftones and unsurprisingly it's my favorite track off Gore.

Quote from: Bifrost on Apr 18, 2016, 11:05 PM

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 18, 2016, 04:40 PM
I've been listening to the album in my car, and this is the first album that actually hurts my ears. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but something sounds off. (I feel like someone accidentally upped an EQ level to way above normal levels.) It's almost tinny sounding? Maybe too much treble and reverb? I don't know...

LOL me too, I have been listening to it in my car, and I have to adjust the EQ practically song to song to make it sound good. It's Stef's guitar. For example on Hearts/Wires - starts off awesome but then on the chorus it's just a wall of detuned distortion, which I can't get to sound right- the low end is loose and the highs too crunchy, if that makes any sense?

Also Chino needs to ditch whatever effect he uses when he screams nowadays- that tinny/ harsh effect. it doesn't sound good.

It sucks because Stef's tone on ATF used to be favorite, I tried to emulate that sound when I used to play. Now his tone is just shit, even he says so in interviews. smh.

And Chino's vocals sound often dry and harsh- I have friends that aren't into the D'tones as much as I am and even they mention it.

I am not saying I hate this album, but it is sad to see these things continue to trend in the wrong direction IMO.

Another issue is the cymbals. They are so high pitched. That's what really hurts my ears I think. They sound like those fake ass karaoke song cymbals, there's so much processing on them.

Call me crazy, but the vinyl rip gives it more of a raw vibe to it and I can listen to it in my car without changing every level on my EQ.

I love the album, wish it was produced better. I remember when Chino first said they mixed it, had it done, then re did the mix. I was suspicious when I first heard that.

I can see why now.

^^^ spot on about the production. I love this album more than the last 3 previous releases ( as a whole, cohesive album) but I do think it could've sounded a lot better.

Certain parts/moments are great though and that shines through no matter what.

The cymbals in the Phantom Bride chorus are horrible. They take them out towards the end of the song, and it sounds much better.

Im surprised that the idea that it's "just another Palms record," is seen as a bad thing. I'm surprised it's even a shock to anyone, as well. Every Chino side project has had an effect on the following Deftones album (see: Team Sleep/Saturday Night Wrist, Crosses/Koi No Yokan, and now Palms/Gore).

Not only did I 100% suspect that Gore would take a Palmsy, post-rocky, post-metally, spacey kind of vibe, but that is precisely why I was so excited about it. Palms is by far my favorite side project and ISIS is one of my favorite bands as well.

Who cares if it was being done 10 years ago, I couldn't care less. I don't need them on the cutting edge, I'm no hipster. You'll never hear "that was soooo last year," from me. Good music is good music, I don't understand why it matters if it's the "it thing" or not.

Well, it's not good music, lol.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 19, 2016, 03:30 AM
Well, it's not good music, lol.

Says you. It's everything I've wanted from them but didn't get from DE and KNY.

Man, music is truly one of the most subjective art forms, but it's why we all love it.  Mix in the fact that what Deftones do, regardless of album or era, is even more subjective.  Looking at what new fans say and what old fans say, there's no doubt that this band's true greatness is in it's ability to create so many subjective opinions.  Think about all of the other bands on your iPod, or Spotify mixes and ask if they do the same for more than 20 years.  I'm sure there are a few, but just that, a few.  Most other bands in your library, you're either wondering "what happened to these guys" or "I have 10 albums that all sound the same".  Deftones have survived the death of a founding member, living in different states, divorce, the collapse of the record industry, Napster (yeah I'm old) and lord only knows what else.  We all have memories tied to so many songs, whether it be 20 of them or 2 of them.  There are 40 year old fans who listen to songs that remind them of falling in love for the first time, or having their first heart break.  There are 20 year old kids in their basements making out to some Deftones right now.  There are 10 year old super fans who are going to shows with their dads.  There are 19 year old angst filled young women who think their moms are still bad ass because they know all the lyrics to "Lifter".  It's pretty special that some of us have spent 21 years waiting on baited breath for 8 albums (plus some other stuff) and others of us get to go and buy 8 albums and listen to the whole thing from start to end in one glorious night.  Everything else is kind of insignificant when you think about it.  Love you Deftones.

I was gonna post a topic about this, but since you created this one, i'll post it here.

I was as hyped and excited as everyone. I'm a huge fan of Deftones, I like all their albums (except Gore).

I was one of the first to get the leak. Even thought the first leak had a bad audio quality, I decided to listen to it. This is how I listened: I put on my best headphones, laid down on my bed and played each track in the default order.

Almost every Deftones album has a BEAUTIFUL chorus and sometimes a beautiful vocal melody in general. For example, in DI that chorus comes right from the first track; on SNW it comes with Beware (man, what a song); on KNY, it comes with the 3rd track Leathers (that's a BEAUTIFUL chorus).

So, I started playing the first track of Gore, which is P/T, I had heard it before and didn't like it. Then the second song, that chorus didn't come, and the song in general sucked. Then the 3rd track, I believe it's Doomd Usr, total garbage. Then the 4th song, and so on. That beautiful melody never came. When listening to Geometric Headdress I was CRINGING, I thought "WTF IS THIS?!". Throughout the whole album I was just cringing, due to the lame songs and terrible mix.

What trully disappointed me is that the songs lack the "Deftones vibe", which is hard to explain. Every album has that vibe, even the Covers album, but Gore doesn't. It doesn't feel like a Deftones album to me. It sounds like a bunch of demos of Deftones covering some underground 90s band.

I've done the same listening process again, also listened to the album while jogging, driving, whatever. It simply won't grow on me. I gave up. I went from not liking the songs to hating them, cause the more I listen the more I hate them.

It's sad to say that this is the only Deftones album that I didn't like.

Quote from: deftonesluvrbrazil on Apr 19, 2016, 05:55 AM
It doesn't feel like a Deftones album to me. It sounds like a bunch of demos of Deftones covering some underground 90s band.

What, like Quicksand?  ;)

a bunch of people that didnt like it mentioned they played it in a car

lmao, use headphones numbnuts

Quote from: BlueBackpack on Apr 19, 2016, 06:56 AM
a bunch of people that didnt like it mentioned they played it in a car

lmao, use headphones numbnuts

On our way to the Amoeba show last Monday, it was my first time listening to it with my brother and sister, who we've all shared the love for Deftones since 1998/99, in the car. It sounded even better. Just driving through LA, bumping it really loud... The newness of the sound. The cohesion. Everything about it. I couldn't stop air drumming, singing a long (the lyrics did nothing for me the past 2 albums), it all just clicked. I feel sad for the people who don't hear that it's a great album... So point if my story is to play it as loud while driving haha

Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Apr 19, 2016, 07:01 AM

Quote from: BlueBackpack on Apr 19, 2016, 06:56 AM
a bunch of people that didnt like it mentioned they played it in a car

lmao, use headphones numbnuts

On our way to the Amoeba show last Monday, it was my first time listening to it with my brother and sister, who we've all shared the love for Deftones since 1998/99, in the car. It sounded even better. Just driving through LA, bumping it really loud... The newness of the sound. The cohesion. Everything about it. I couldn't stop air drumming, singing a long (the lyrics did nothing for me the past 2 albums), it all just clicked. I feel sad for the people who don't hear that it's a great album... So point if my story is to play it as loud while driving haha

I have done this, still no good.

I can hear the bad production, you just can't unhear that.

These songs just don't engage me. They are not Deftones songs. I wish I could enjoy it like you, but it just doesn't connect.

Again, I have loved all of the past albums.
All of them.

I just don't want this to happen again.
I know, that they know it's bad. They delayed it for a reason
They knew. So knowing what they know, I just don't want them to do it again. I'll look over this album, wait for the next. But if everyone keeps yes manning them and they make another album like this, well I don't want to be done with my favorite band. I just don't.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 19, 2016, 11:49 PM

Quote from: Jerry_Curls on Apr 19, 2016, 07:01 AM

Quote from: BlueBackpack on Apr 19, 2016, 06:56 AM
a bunch of people that didnt like it mentioned they played it in a car

lmao, use headphones numbnuts

On our way to the Amoeba show last Monday, it was my first time listening to it with my brother and sister, who we've all shared the love for Deftones since 1998/99, in the car. It sounded even better. Just driving through LA, bumping it really loud... The newness of the sound. The cohesion. Everything about it. I couldn't stop air drumming, singing a long (the lyrics did nothing for me the past 2 albums), it all just clicked. I feel sad for the people who don't hear that it's a great album... So point if my story is to play it as loud while driving haha

I have done this, still no good.

I can hear the bad production, you just can't unhear that.

These songs just don't engage me. They are not Deftones songs. I wish I could enjoy it like you, but it just doesn't connect.

Again, I have loved all of the past albums.
All of them.

I just don't want this to happen again.
I know, that they know it's bad. They delayed it for a reason
They knew. So knowing what they know, I just don't want them to do it again. I'll look over this album, wait for the next. But if everyone keeps yes manning them and they make another album like this, well I don't want to be done with my favorite band. I just don't.

Wow, you really love to speak for everyone, don't you? They are Deftones songs, and the band are happy with the album. Stop crying about how you know about music therefore you're right. The band made the songs, therefore, they're Deftones songs. They just happen to be songs that you hate. Don't make excuses for not liking it like acting like a band you love couldn't possibly disappoint you. They and they have. Accept it and stop overreacting as though it means they're doomed to make music you despise forever.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 18, 2016, 08:11 AM

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 18, 2016, 07:59 AM
Couple thoughts:

1. You're entitled to your opinion. Mine, however, is completely different than yours. Here it is: if Deftones have a problem, Chino isn't the reason for it. Maybe look at the guy who is writing bland riffs that are a shell of his old stuff?

2. Isn't Like Linus more or less the Adrenaline demo? Is that what you mean?

3. "Bad versions of Palms songs"...so, basically, Palms songs? I have no problems with Chino's Gore vocals (besides parts of Doomed User). I'll give you that there's some spotty production, but Gore's vocals and production absolutely blow vocals and production on Palms out of the water, IMO. I don't really get the Palms comparisons, to be honest. Palms is summery post-rock, while Gore is grungy alternative metal.

Because everything is just bland.

And vocally, he is pretty bad on this album. He is losing his depth and things are sounding forced and placated.

Like Linus is the main demo, but while they were doing shows, they had a shorter demo. Like Linus is just the longer version with more songs on it.

As far as the problem with this album, I honestly don't know where it comes from. I just have a gut feeling, being that I have done this myself, the changes seem to come from the side projects. I happen to love Crosses, but Gore sounds like a side project album. Considering Chino is the one doing a million side projects, it stands to reason that he is the root cause of this.

Either way, I don't care about blame, I just want it recognized and fixed. This is one of the best bands in history and this is the first chink in their armor. I just don't want it to become catastrophic.

I have tried to force myself to like these songs, it just isn't possible. My woman who also loves them, can't stand it either.

This album was a mistake.

you're in the industry? i find that VERY hard to believe. "forced and placated" LOL 8)

"it isn't deftones, it's just not deftones, I call rivière Comanche cause I'm a tr00 fan"


This band is always changing. Listen to Koi No Yokan, Self-Titled, totally different. Saturday Night Wrist. You can't tell this band they don't sound like themselves at this stage of the game.

I'm not crazy about the production either. That being said, I do like the album but some of the transitions are strange to me. Most notably the transition into "Xenon", it's so abrupt and turns me off. But what I respect is that 8 albums in Deftones are still trying new things, still writing solid songs and still being Deftones. I can't name many bands that are this far into their career and still churning out albums without having completely abandoned their sound and/or identities. I'd place Gore somewhere in the middle, not as enjoyable as a lot of their other albums but still fun nonetheless.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 19, 2016, 11:49 PMThey are not Deftones songs.

*Ahem*. Uhh... yes they are.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 19, 2016, 11:49 PMI know, that they know it's bad. They delayed it for a reason
They knew.

Yes, in fact I believe that's what Chino meant when he said "Out of respect for Pac, Big, Stevie, Michael, Hendrix, Gore is ONE of the greatest albums not the greatest, just one of."


Jokes aside... It's a shame you couldn't get to like the album. Personally, I love it, although I'll admit I had a hard time getting into it at first too. We can agree on the mix, however.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 18, 2016, 08:11 AM
This is one of the best bands in history and this is the first chink in their armor. I just don't want it to become catastrophic.

I have tried to force myself to like these songs, it just isn't possible.

This album was a mistake.

for me, this is the description of snw. i felt the same way about deftones and that album when that record dropped. i was in shock for months. couldn't believe it.

about gore, when we have the "too clean too polish" de and kny in the rearview mirror, i actually like most of the production on gore. a bit dark,gritty and rough. the drums are often in the background, and the guitars are very prominent, like in acid hologram - maybe not professionally done, but i like how those opening chords are like rusty swords swinging and stabbing at you. i dig it. sounds massive. don't mind the song writing either, i have no problem listening 1-5, skipping pi-gore and then finish with pb and rubicon. didn't expect a record that would blow me away from start to finish.i hoped it would be the best since s/t and for me it is. decent 7/10 for me and when people say "it doesn't have the deftones vibe,hard to explain" i get that, but for me it is enough of that vibe on gore.

Quote from: Martin on Apr 18, 2016, 10:25 AM
this opinion could have been posted in the topic about this album.

this

Yes, forced and placated.
One minute you are forcing something, the next minute you are just OK with anything you throw down.

Now with all of the personal attacks out there, it doesn't change this album. It's bad and needs to be recognized as such. Even if just from the production POV.

Like I said, I want to like it, I just can't.

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 18, 2016, 05:16 PM
I'm not sure if he's ever come up with a more bland riff than YSTB.  Yet, that song is popular with the fans (for what reason I'm not exactly sure)

maybe it's the chorus? it's a little more varied i think.. kinda melodic and catchy

The production from song to song is HIGHLY inconsistent, and that is one of the main reasons why people are having such strong, negative reactions to the album. Xenon is a great song idea that fails in it's execution, because the mixing is downright TERRIBLE on that song. Pittura Infamante is -imo- the crowning achievement of this album, with a stellar performance from Abe, that gets drowned in muddy production; the vocals are yoyo-ed all over the place on that song. OTOH, Geometric Headdress is one of the most boring, repetitive songs that Deftones have ever created, and should have never been included on Gore. The song that was taken off at the last minute ("Crest", I think it was called) should've replaced Geometric, and I can tell you that safely, without having even listened to a second of it. Seriously, Geometric is absolute SHIT : The verses STINK, the production is lifeless and awful, and Chino STRUGGLES his way through mediocre, try-hard "intense" verses, and the only good part is the chorus, which gets repeated to death - as is the Deftones way. I feel like, at this point, Deftones should play to their strengths, which is writing songs like Pittura or Rubicon, where the songs transition from section to section seamlessly, without feeling forced or tacked on - Feticiera or Hole in the Earth are examples from the past. Songs like Romantic Dreams from KNY or Geometric are perfect examples of the band trying too hard to go for the snappy, out-of-nowhere song transitions, and it does not work. Overall, I like Gore better than KNY, and I would like to see them pay more attention to their production consistency, song stuctures, make the transitions smoother, and not just copy-paste a couple of random ideas and call it a song.

Quote from: dopeybanana on Apr 20, 2016, 12:07 PM
Songs like Romantic Dreams from KNY or Geometric are perfect examples of the band trying too hard to go for the snappy, out-of-nowhere song transitions, and it does not work.

what about acid hologram? you didn't mention that song, do you think the transitions work there?

Quote from: from_musings on Apr 20, 2016, 12:32 PM

Quote from: dopeybanana on Apr 20, 2016, 12:07 PM
Songs like Romantic Dreams from KNY or Geometric are perfect examples of the band trying too hard to go for the snappy, out-of-nowhere song transitions, and it does not work.

what about acid hologram? you didn't mention that song, do you think the transitions work there?

Exactly. I wouldn't even say AH has transitions, just ideas fused together.

That being said, I still think AH and GH are two of the strongest songs on the album.

Still doesn't help that the production creates a feeling that my brain and ears are bleeding. Haha.

Quote from: from_musings on Apr 20, 2016, 12:32 PM

Quote from: dopeybanana on Apr 20, 2016, 12:07 PM
Songs like Romantic Dreams from KNY or Geometric are perfect examples of the band trying too hard to go for the snappy, out-of-nowhere song transitions, and it does not work.

what about acid hologram? you didn't mention that song, do you think the transitions work there?

While AH does have elements of that snappy songwriting, I feel like the song has a good "flow" to it, and is overall, one of the stronger songs on the album. Just to illustrate what I'm talking about with Geometric, just five seconds into the song when Chino wails "lay back in your chair", the "chair" part is nails-on-a-chalkboard cringeworthy. Unnerving is one thing, and I welcome it, but this song is chock full of abysmally bad moments, and it has this unimaginative copy-paste section1, section 2,1,2,chorus,2,2,2 structure to it that just grates (The title track is also guilty of this, but is executed better). At around 2:00, I find myself begging for the song to take a different turn, but it GOES BACK to the cringey part, and then to the chorus, and BACK AGAIN to the cringey part, which is REPEATED a bunch of times (Did i mention that I HATE that part :P). In contrast, songs like Pittura or even (L)MIRL are progressive, and organically so.

LOL @ people complaining about a song on Gore being repetitive yet songs off of S/T, their most repetitive song structure album, like Hexagram are pretty much universally lauded.

Anyone want to guess how many times they repeat the main riff in Hexagram?

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
LOL @ people complaining about a song on Gore being repetitive yet songs off of S/T, their most repetitive song structure album, like Hexagram are pretty much universally lauded.

Anyone want to guess how many times they repeat the main riff in Hexagram?

I guess my point is that if you're going to repeat the hell out of a section, don't make it the worst section of the song, like in Geometric. Hexagram's main riff is a good riff, and the repetition does not deter from the experience.

Something about Geometric Headdress rubs me the wrong way, I guess :P. Let's agree to disagree on this one.

I wouln't say GORE is horrible but yes it is a huge dissapointment.

For the first time ever, I am not obsessed with a Deftones' record.
I don't want to play GORE over and over again.

Too flat for me, I can't feel the (ENTIRE) band inside my guts as before.
In GORE, Chino is on the top of the moutains and everyone is only gravitating around him.

Each time I play a song or two, I feel the need to go back and play ancient Deftones' records.

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
LOL @ people complaining about a song on Gore being repetitive yet songs off of S/T, their most repetitive song structure album, like Hexagram are pretty much universally lauded.

Anyone want to guess how many times they repeat the main riff in Hexagram?

Let's not forget BQAD

Quote from: SMLiberator on Apr 20, 2016, 03:42 PM

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
LOL @ people complaining about a song on Gore being repetitive yet songs off of S/T, their most repetitive song structure album, like Hexagram are pretty much universally lauded.

Anyone want to guess how many times they repeat the main riff in Hexagram?

Let's not forget BQAD

Or Elite

3 things:

1. Zero (0) moments. Like, not a single riff even or part of the song, chorus or something catch my attention. Ok ok, first part of chorus of that song with headress in title had something, but that's about it. I admit, though, with DE their songs became less & less memorable, but KNY at least had that Poltergeist intro riffage..

2. Sound of the record. So damn flat. Like plastic... dunno how they even managed to get such sound. Was that intentional or something.
3. Chino singing. :'[

To me (L)mirl is the most progressive song structure they've ever attempted - it actually evolves, which has gotta be a first.

Quote from: stepanas on Apr 20, 2016, 03:45 PM
3 things:

1. Zero (0) moments. Like, not a single riff even or part of the song, chorus or something catch my attention. Ok ok, first part of chorus of that song with headress in title had something, but that's about it. I admit, though, with DE their songs became less & less memorable, but KNY at least had that Poltergeist intro riffage..

2. Sound of the record. So damn flat. Like plastic... dunno how they even managed to get such sound. Was that intentional or something.
3. Chino singing. :'[

Dude Wft are u serious?

I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

yeah it's nuts right? maybe you guys should start a band , call it deftones and re write the history of this band since you apparently know so much more than them. fucking idiots.

Lol, Cyn is that you

It's all good OP.

Music is subjective, sorry to hear your not a fan of the new album, but I enjoy reading what people dislike about it and it's never an issue of right or wrong when it comes to personal thoughts on music. This forum should be about more than just blind allegiance and personally I've never been a fan of people who just blindly rave on about how good an album is just because it's from a band they are a huge fan of. If anything I'm a million times harsher when critiquing releases from bands I enjoy and am passionite about than the ones I just dabble in, very much so when it comes to the Tones.

In saying for me personally I have always found it hard to comment on any Deftones album for the first few weeks, if not months, and I'd say I have struggled with at least half of their discography in regards to the first few times I have heard it. For example Diamond Eyes and Koi No Yokan both took a LONG time to grow on me as complete works. The first few listens really did'nt impress me apart from a few tracks that I instantly clicked with, usually the more aggresive ones. The albums as a whole though were often a struggle for me to get into at the time of release but one thing I find with much of this bands recent music is it grows on me with paitence and time.

As such I'm remise to comment to much or give my take on their albums at time of release as I think they are a hard band to reveiw in such a way, at least for me personally.

I will agree this album is highly, HIGHLY compressed. Not sure if Matt Hyde was the best fit tbh and part of me wishes they would get Terry Date back to produce as he seems to get the best sound from the band, especially when it comes to Steph and the guitar tone.

I also miss Chi and his influence. While I am a huge fan of Sergio he seems to be more on Chinos wavelength in regards to sonics and harmonics. I often get the feeling Steph and Chi were the ones to keep the band on track when it came to their aggression and would pull the reins in on Chinos influence outside vocals where as now he seems to have a lot more free reign. Of course thats complete assumption as they don't really talk about it but I have noticed the flavor just seems way different.

Quote from: SomeOf on Apr 20, 2016, 02:10 PM
I wouln't say GORE is horrible but yes it is a huge dissapointment.

For the first time ever, I am not obsessed with a Deftones' record.
I don't want to play GORE over and over again.

Too flat for me, I can't feel the (ENTIRE) band inside my guts as before.
In GORE, Chino is on the top of the moutains and everyone is only gravitating around him.

Each time I play a song or two, I feel the need to go back and play ancient Deftones' records.

This.
It's that feeling they create. It intangible, but the most important thing about them.

If you want a band that screams alot, with someone that can sing OK, play heavy and talk about killing women they like, slipknot is the better choice.

The Deftones always make me feel something thru-out the whole album. And Chino is also missing a LOT of his vocal swagger on this album. That magic is not there.

Hell, I felt that majic with Crosses, but I didn't even want to or care to. He made me, he forced me. I want him to have control like he always has and this album doesn't do it.

Hell, maybe it's on purpose even.
Maybe he is tired of the cycle, I would be by now. Maybe Stephen is tired of it. I don't know, but this record is screaming at me that something is wrong with them as a group. Maybe Chi had more influence than we could imagine. Death, divorce (another type of death), who knows what other family issues have eaten at them, but something is wrong and it's not good.

Quote from: shine down unshy on Apr 20, 2016, 06:21 PM
Lol, Cyn is that you

You fucking know it.
If you know me, kindly help me with some of these shit talkers.

Quote from: fireflyry on Apr 21, 2016, 12:59 AM
It's all good OP.

Music is subjective, sorry to hear your not a fan of the new album, but I enjoy reading what people dislike about it and it's never an issue of right or wrong when it comes to personal thoughts on music. This forum should be about more than just blind allegiance and personally I've never been a fan of people who just blindly rave on about how good an album is just because it's from a band they are a huge fan of. If anything I'm a million times harsher when critiquing releases from bands I enjoy and am passionite about than the ones I just dabble in, very much so when it comes to the Tones.

In saying for me personally I have always found it hard to comment on any Deftones album for the first few weeks, if not months, and I'd say I have struggled with at least half of their discography in regards to the first few times I have heard it. For example Diamond Eyes and Koi No Yokan both took a LONG time to grow on me as complete works. The first few listens really did'nt impress me apart from a few tracks that I instantly clicked with, usually the more aggresive ones. The albums as a whole though were often a struggle for me to get into at the time of release but one thing I find with much of this bands recent music is it grows on me with paitence and time.

As such I'm remise to comment to much or give my take on their albums at time of release as I think they are a hard band to reveiw in such a way, at least for me personally.

I will agree this album is highly, HIGHLY compressed. Not sure if Matt Hyde was the best fit tbh and part of me wishes they would get Terry Date back to produce as he seems to get the best sound from the band, especially when it comes to Steph and the guitar tone.

I also miss Chi and his influence. While I am a huge fan of Sergio he seems to be more on Chinos wavelength in regards to sonics and harmonics. I often get the feeling Steph and Chi were the ones to keep the band on track when it came to their aggression and would pull the reins in on Chinos influence outside vocals where as now he seems to have a lot more free reign. Of course thats complete assumption as they don't really talk about it but I have noticed the flavor just seems way different.

I agree with you.
Like I said on another post, I shouldn't have to force myself to like a song from them, they have always forced me.

I have loved every single album they have dropped.
The only one that wasn't instant was the Self Titled album, but after a few days it clicked and I loved it. Gore is way different. I was actually repulsed by it. Wanted to remove it right away and after a few seconds, I did. Then I put it back in and forced it. I am listening to it now, as I type this.

I like Hearts/Wires. I really like it.
But it's not a Deftones song. And the only reason I like it, is I see myself killing someone to that song, lol.

I want to like Prayers/Triangles, because I do a lot of Jiu-Jitsu and MMA things, so I find the lyrics kind of funny, relayed to that.

That's the extent of it for me. That's where I'm at.
I want to be where the people that like it are, but unless it gets remixed, has more headroom in the overall mix and somehow that feeling comes back, then this album is going to be trashed within the week.

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

No one makes millions in the record industry.
I have been involved with bands like SLS and ten years. I have done my own stuff. I did not state these things to say I would do a perfect job, it's to give a background on why I am saying what I am saying. As matter of fact, I typed it saying that I know how hard it can be to make an album work, but you ignored that and latched on to my qualifications.

I am sorry that in this day and age of give everyone an award, that you get offended when someone states qualifications that you don't have.

I am also heavily into MMA.
I was a successful computer programmer and hardware engineer. Iade a pretty popular cheat device as well.

In MMA I have trained many people, who hold many titles.
I am also an official. I judge, ref and inspect. Both kick boxing and MMA

Does this make you mad too?

I remember seeing them live during Taste of Chaos tour in 2005, right before SNW was released. Their stage presence was awful. They absolutely did not want to be there.

I was convinced they were done with after that tour and the release of SNW. (Everything I'm hearing from the guys about that session tells me I wasn't too far off)

I'm happy there's three more albums after I thought they were done for. I don't like all of it, but
I appreciate all of it.

The Gore mix stinks, but they will redeem themselves for the next album.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 02:16 AM

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

No one makes millions in the record industry.
I have been involved with bands like SLS and ten years. I have done my own stuff. I did not state these things to say I would do a perfect job, it's to give a background on why I am saying what I am saying. As matter of fact, I typed it saying that I know how hard it can be to make an album work, but you ignored that and latched on to my qualifications.

I am sorry that in this day and age of give everyone an award, that you get offended when someone states qualifications that you don't have.

I am also heavily into MMA.
I was a successful computer programmer and hardware engineer. Iade a pretty popular cheat device as well.

In MMA I have trained many people, who hold many titles.
I am also an official. I judge, ref and inspect. Both kick boxing and MMA

Does this make you mad too?

Apparently you're not qualified in picking up sarcasm. And I couldn't care less of what shitty bands you've worked with and or that you do MMA/kickboxing. But whatever makes you feel good about yourself on a forum.

Loved every Deftones album and never posted but just had to register and shit all over this one. Interesting.

Quote from: B_S_79 on Apr 21, 2016, 02:18 AM
I remember seeing them live during Taste of Chaos tour in 2005, right before SNW was released. Their stage presence was awful. They absolutely did not want to be there.

I was convinced they were done with after that tour and the release of SNW. (Everything I'm hearing from the guys about that session tells me I wasn't too far off)

I'm happy there's three more albums after I thought they were done for. I don't like all of it, but
I appreciate all of it.

The Gore mix stinks, but they will redeem themselves for the next album.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope so.
If they do another one.

I just hope they fix whatever is wrong.

Considering how amazing KNY was, I think Gore was just an artistic misstep. I'm all for them trying new things, in fact they should try new things, but sometimes new things don't work as planned. Gore is unfortunately, a case when it doesn't work.

The songs aren't terrible by any means, they just don't for the most part, work with the tone of what makes this band great.

They need to ditch the 80s butt rock stylings, and focus on expanding and perfecting the mix of their space, prog, shoegaze, goth, post-hardcore, and electronic tones. And also make sure Stephen is inspired and will put the effort into writing riffs that take more than 2 weeks experience to play. God, most of his riffs on this album were so juvenile.

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 21, 2016, 02:40 AM

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 02:16 AM

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

No one makes millions in the record industry.
I have been involved with bands like SLS and ten years. I have done my own stuff. I did not state these things to say I would do a perfect job, it's to give a background on why I am saying what I am saying. As matter of fact, I typed it saying that I know how hard it can be to make an album work, but you ignored that and latched on to my qualifications.

I am sorry that in this day and age of give everyone an award, that you get offended when someone states qualifications that you don't have.

I am also heavily into MMA.
I was a successful computer programmer and hardware engineer. Iade a pretty popular cheat device as well.

In MMA I have trained many people, who hold many titles.
I am also an official. I judge, ref and inspect. Both kick boxing and MMA

Does this make you mad too?

Apparently you're not qualified in picking up sarcasm. And I couldn't care less of what shitty bands you've worked with and or that you do MMA/kickboxing. But whatever makes you feel good about yourself on a forum.

Yeahhh,.. It doesn't work like that Homie.
You were using passive aggressive tactics as well as using a sarcastic remarks as a way to sling insults, without attaching the person's name you were talking about.

Typical coward internet behavior, but I'm not worried about it.
I shoved it down your throat and handled it.

Get back to me when you have any of those qualifications you talk shit about.

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 21, 2016, 02:46 AM
Considering how amazing KNY was, I think Gore was just an artistic misstep. I'm all for them trying new things, in fact they should try new things, but sometimes new things don't work as planned. Gore is unfortunately, a case when it doesn't work.

The songs aren't terrible by any means, they just don't for the most part, work with the tone of what makes this band great.

They need to ditch the 80s butt rock stylings, and focus on expanding and perfecting the mix of their space, prog, shoegaze, goth, post-hardcore, and electronic tones. And also make sure Stephen is inspired and will put the effort into writing riffs that take more than 2 weeks experience to play. God, most of his riffs on this album were so juvenile.

I can agree with that.

i dont know album are  you hearing  cause for me gore is fucking amazing!!!

specially now that i have it a better quality and with good headphones , amazin!!!!   sorry for my english :p

Quote from: jciraheta on Apr 21, 2016, 02:50 AM
i dont know album are  you hearing  cause for me gore is fucking amazing!!!

specially now that i have it a better quality and with good headphones , amazin!!!!   sorry for my english :p

Your English is perfectly fine.

I wish I could be where you are with it. I wish I liked it like you do. I just can't.

I'll keep trying for a while.
I shouldn't have to, but I will.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 02:47 AM

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 21, 2016, 02:40 AM

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 02:16 AM

Quote from: kurtone on Apr 20, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm really surprised some people on this board aren't making millions in the music industry. So many production/song writing experts here. It's crazy!

No one makes millions in the record industry.
I have been involved with bands like SLS and ten years. I have done my own stuff. I did not state these things to say I would do a perfect job, it's to give a background on why I am saying what I am saying. As matter of fact, I typed it saying that I know how hard it can be to make an album work, but you ignored that and latched on to my qualifications.

I am sorry that in this day and age of give everyone an award, that you get offended when someone states qualifications that you don't have.

I am also heavily into MMA.
I was a successful computer programmer and hardware engineer. Iade a pretty popular cheat device as well.

In MMA I have trained many people, who hold many titles.
I am also an official. I judge, ref and inspect. Both kick boxing and MMA

Does this make you mad too?

Apparently you're not qualified in picking up sarcasm. And I couldn't care less of what shitty bands you've worked with and or that you do MMA/kickboxing. But whatever makes you feel good about yourself on a forum.

Yeahhh,.. It doesn't work like that Homie.
You were using passive aggressive tactics as well as using a sarcastic remarks as a way to sling insults, without attaching the person's name you were talking about.

Typical coward internet behavior, but I'm not worried about it.
I shoved it down your throat and handled it.

Get back to me when you have any of those qualifications you talk shit about.

Will do.

The fact that all of their albums are so divisive amongst the fans says a lot about what a great band they are.

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 03:38 AM
The fact that all of their albums are so divisive amongst the fans says a lot about what a great band they are.

I haven't seen this with the core group of fans I have been around since like 95/96. We have loved everything they have put out. The albums have all been received pretty much the same.

Out of the entire group, 1 person likes Gore, but agrees production is shit and it doesn't feel right, but he does like it.

The rest of us are downright repulsed by it.

That's your core group of friends, though. If you look here, Deftones Facebook, Deftones reddit, comment sections, etc., almost everyone has a different opinion on what their favorite album is, what their least favorite album is, etc. Also, when WP came out, some hated it because they thought it was softer than Adrenaline and ATF. And then when S/T came out, a lot of people hated it because they thought it was a step down from WP. A lot of people can't stand SNW (Chino included - he's now on record saying he thinks it's awful. I like SNW, but if you think Gore has production problems, hoo boy - let's talk SNW!). There's a strong contingent on SL that thinks KNY is the least of their albums (I'm in that group). Besides music publications/media sites often saying WP is their best album and DE is the comeback album, there isn't much of a consensus on a lot of this stuff. And that's fine.

yeah different people see different records as the black sheep in deftones discography.the difference here though, is that this clique of people know the actual fact.according to them - those who like the latest album live in some sort of matrix world, while this gang of friends are looking at things the way they really are. they're like the resistance movement, fighting for what is right. personal opinion: they need to fight the label and the band instead, not the fooled and deceived people around here living in cloud cuckoo land. that's a dead end

So wait, he can post that longtime fans seem to love it, but I can't post that ones I actually know to be legit, long term fans,.. Don't?

Just lol.

I'm not saying every longtime fan loves it. I've definitely seen fans say they don't like the album. I'm just saying Gore isn't the first time I've seen people saying they don't like a Deftones album.

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 08:24 AM
I'm not saying every longtime fan loves it. I've definitely seen fans say they don't like the album. I'm just saying Gore isn't the first time I've seen people saying they don't like a Deftones album.

And I'm saying that in a fairly large, well practiced group that I personally know, this is the first time.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 09:40 AM

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 08:24 AM
I'm not saying every longtime fan loves it. I've definitely seen fans say they don't like the album. I'm just saying Gore isn't the first time I've seen people saying they don't like a Deftones album.

And I'm saying that in a fairly large, well practiced group that I personally know, this is the first time.

OMG THIS MEANS THE WORLD OF DEFTONES IS IMPLODING FROM ITS CORE

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 09:40 AM

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 08:24 AM
I'm not saying every longtime fan loves it. I've definitely seen fans say they don't like the album. I'm just saying Gore isn't the first time I've seen people saying they don't like a Deftones album.

And I'm saying that in a fairly large, well practiced group that I personally know, this is the first time.

No one cares who you know. People's opinions span far outside of your circle.

I like GORE...Maybe EROS will finally be released? With push from steph ?

The 2 close friends I have who also love them, are playing Gore nonstop. They just loved it. Like I mentioned before, I liked 3 or 4 songs, a LOT. Theres really 2 songs I could not care less about it, so I think its a good record. Not TOP notch quality, like they used to make but still, a good one.

The only thing that is keeping me a little disappointed lately is Chino. He shouldnt scream anymore (and thats just me). Yeah, he doesnt scream that much in Palms and TS and w/e and in Deftones he does, but it hurts my ears listening to him trying to scream. Its just awful most of the times, since SNW. If he keeps only the soft stuff I wouldnt mind since they can fill the void with Stephen and Abe. But, I think ppl in here prolly wants him to keep screaming. The high tone screams like in the song Gore... its just... stop. Yeah, hes older, he does not have the same breath and he gets tired faster so I assume is way harder to keep screaming, but ...thats my point. He cant anymore. Might as well just stop.

Quote from: TheyCallMeP on Apr 21, 2016, 10:36 AM

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 09:40 AM

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 08:24 AM
I'm not saying every longtime fan loves it. I've definitely seen fans say they don't like the album. I'm just saying Gore isn't the first time I've seen people saying they don't like a Deftones album.

And I'm saying that in a fairly large, well practiced group that I personally know, this is the first time.

No one cares who you know. People's opinions span far outside of your circle.

Did I say their name? You're acting like I IDed them.

Either way, you are acting like I can't post the information I have. I'm sorry, but I can. I find my own experience more important than yours as well, but I'm not slamming you for posting it.

Kids, lol.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 21, 2016, 05:57 AM

Quote from: Inkblades on Apr 21, 2016, 03:38 AM
The fact that all of their albums are so divisive amongst the fans says a lot about what a great band they are.

I haven't seen this with the core group of fans I have been around since like 95/96. We have loved everything they have put out. The albums have all been received pretty much the same.

Out of the entire group, 1 person likes Gore, but agrees production is shit and it doesn't feel right, but he does like it.

The rest of us are downright repulsed by it.

I have had the same experience - maybe not to the same extent tho'

Me and another long time fan were talking about the album. We were both shaking our heads in disappointment. We wanted to like the album but it's flaws were just heard to overlook. Most of it has already be mentioned here.

I don't hate the album but it's just not good. The only song I have been returning to is Phantom Bride. The others are just meh. I would rather listen to DE or KNY.

And I agree, maybe its time for Chino to give up screaming (when writing new songs). It just sounds bad, in the least ditch that effect he uses that makes his screams sound so tinny and weak. It sounds horrible.

I'd like more songs like Lovers. His voice is still punishing during those choruses without him having to scream his head off..

Quote from: only pieces remain on Apr 18, 2016, 07:39 AM
sup jaypayton?

it ain't jaypayton. op seems to be "White Pwny",already a member on this board. why she begins with the "I had to register here just to post this"
i don't know, since she's already got an account

Doubt it. I shared the first couple of tracks with her when they popped and she was high on this shit. I even asked her for the sake of it, it's not her.

ok i assumed so since a person asked if she was "Cyn" and "she" said yes. Cyn the mod - white pwny. well it ain't jaypayton either. (i think)

Quote from: from_musings on Apr 22, 2016, 10:38 AM
ok i assumed so since a person asked if she was "Cyn" and "she" said yes. Cyn the mod - white pwny. well it ain't jaypayton either. (i think)

No, I am The Cyndicate.
I am well known in gaming and fighting.

People call me CYN because I live in Vegas, I also beat people for a living and I can be pretty inventive with online discussions let's say.

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 22, 2016, 12:21 PM
I am well known in gaming and fighting.

Hah no surprise you'd join to stir shit up

Quote from: MrVesanique on Apr 22, 2016, 12:27 PM

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 22, 2016, 12:21 PM
I am well known in gaming and fighting.

Hah no surprise you'd join to stir shit up

Hey, look, I care about this band. Yes I will stir shit up if I think they are putting out subpar stuff. I have never felt this way about one of their albums and neither have several of the people I've been around for over 2 decades.

Should have added that smiley, I was mildly serious. But you do know you'll lift the waves when you're going to the church to scream God is a wet fart.



Back on topic, I haven't really expressed an opinion about this album yet, but I'll just say one thing : whether you like it or not, there's less cohesion to this than there is to SNW. There, I said it.

Quote from: MrVesanique on Apr 22, 2016, 12:53 PM
Should have added that smiley, I was mildly serious. But you do know you'll lift the waves when you're going to the church to scream God is a wet fart.



Back on topic, I haven't really expressed an opinion about this album yet, but I'll just say one thing : whether you like it or not, there's less cohesion to this than there is to SNW. There, I said it.

I took it light hearted.
Maybe I should have added a smiley? Lol

Quote from: nicklav on Apr 21, 2016, 10:07 PM
I'd like more songs like Lovers. His voice is still punishing during those choruses without him having to scream his head off..

YES PLEASE!

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 22, 2016, 12:21 PM
I can be pretty inventive with online discussions let's say.

lol you're just a trolling shit starter? fuck you got me.i actually believed the "my opinion is fact,no such thing subjectivity"but now in retrospect, i should've seen it  ;D

Quote from: from_musings on Apr 22, 2016, 04:09 PM

Quote from: The Cyndicate on Apr 22, 2016, 12:21 PM
I can be pretty inventive with online discussions let's say.

lol you're just a trolling shit starter? fuck you got me.i actually believed the "my opinion is fact,no such thing subjectivity"but now in retrospect, i should've seen it  ;D

I only troll antagonists.
I meant most of what I typed.

Quote from: Far away on Apr 22, 2016, 04:05 PM

Quote from: nicklav on Apr 21, 2016, 10:07 PM
I'd like more songs like Lovers. His voice is still punishing during those choruses without him having to scream his head off..

YES PLEASE!

I'd say Acid Hologram is pretty similar to Lovers in this respect

As much as I have been shitting on the mix.. I realized I was listening to the CD rip that was floating around before the album release. I recently downloaded the official DL from the email I got from the Deftones webstore when the album was released, and it actually sounds better than what I was listening to.

I thought I'd wait a little while to let the album sink in a bit before I posted my opinion on it but today I took a bit of a drive and put the album on again and turned it off halfway through. I just found it very boring. Probably the first time I've ever said that about a Deftones album.
On the very first listen I was a bit shocked and didn't like it all all but I wasn't to worried as that had happened before and I knew that some of their past albums evoked that feeling in me but I ended up loving them after some more listens. I remember absolutely hating Diamond Eyes at first and then coming to really love that album.
I've loved every release of their's so far. My 2 favourites are ATF and ST but there hasn't been a release that I wouldn't have given less than 8 out of 10. In fact only Koi would be an 8, the rest 9 plus.
I wasn't as crazy over KNY as the rest but it was still a great album.

After a few listens I must admit I had begun to think that Gore would grow on me. It has it's moments and I don't think it's a terrible record, it's just not up to Deftones standards for me.
Before Gore came out Deftones were like gods to me, they could do no wrong now I see them as a little more human.
I really can't understand why people like the three plodding, unimaginative dirges of the album: L(mirl), Hearts/Wires and Phantom Bride.
The riff in the verses of Hearts/Wires is so boring and uninspired.
Especially with those 3 songs Deftones just sound so much like any post rock band, whatever it is that makes them unique is sadly missing from those songs.

To top it off the production is appalling and Abe is buried in the mix. I remember not really ever paying that much attention to drums before I got into Deftones but Abe's drumming really changed that for me.
Sadly I can barely make him out in the mix.
Then there's Chino. His voice actually sounds surprisingly good on Gore if not a little dull at times. When you listen to a lot of bands who have been around as long as Deftones you notice the singers voice beginning to deteriorate as they get older and after years of abuse so I'm actually amazed at how good it sounds, especially seeing as Chino is no longer in his twenties, or even his thirties for that matter.
Even though I don't like the song I thought his voice was very impressive on Pittura Infamante. I didn't know he was capable of singing like that. He sounds like a mixture of Bono and Bjork at times. I'm not sure if that's what I want in a Deftones song but I can appreciate that they tried something new on this.
One thing that is missing though is the little nuances that were especially prevalent on an album like White Pony - the little whispers etc.
Then there's Chino's screams. I really love a lot of the aggressive Deftones songs, Hexagram, WGTB etc and Chino's screams have always been able to send a chill down my spine. The problem on Gore though is that terrible effect or whatever it is that's put on Chino's screams.
I agree with Bifrost in that it sounds tinny. They remind me of the sound a cat makes when you step on its tail and it's really unpleasant for the ears.
His screams have gone from being some of the highlights of the album for me (e.g. end of Royal) to being something I can't bare listening to.
Really I hope that they don't use Matt Hyde again, this guy is really shocking.

I know a lot of you on here love Gore and that's great, everyone is going to have their own opinion of it but I put it right at the bottom of all Deftones albums ...... by a mile.
I think that possibly it's getting a lot of love on the forum because it's still the honeymoon period and after waiting 4 years for an album a lot of people just really want it to be good but I suppose time will tell.
Really wishing now I still had my old username of PinkMaggit instead of Gore :D   
Incidentally I have a friend that's a big Deftones fan too and he actually hates the album and thinks that Chino sounds whiny on it. I don't think I'd take it that far but his voice does actually just drone and whine a bit. First time I haven't really loved his singing, despite his abilities still being there is that makes sense.

Quote from: Gore on Apr 24, 2016, 07:02 PM
I think that possibly it's getting a lot of love on the forum because it's still the honeymoon period and after waiting 4 years for an album a lot of people just really want it to be good but I suppose time will tell.

I keep seeing this from people who don't like the album. Does this actually ever happen to anyone?? I have never in my life ever experienced this "honeymoon period" people keep mentioning...  The only Deftones albums that I'm "meh" about are DE and KNY. Gore is straight gold, because it sounds amazing, not because of this weird phenomenon I've never before even heard of with music...

eh i dont like it either first time that has ever happened and idk how i feel about it

keep listening

I feel like the record could definitely be mixed better and I feel if Terry produced gore it would have really been something. I still think there is some incredibly solid music on this bitch. Personally I think Lmirl is one of the best songs in their catalog. I'm surprised to see a lot of you not enjoying it. To me it's definitely got more enjoyable moments then DE and KNY. And I feel like these songs are going to be great live. Rubicon is just a killer track. My definition of deftones. But the drums aren't loud enough on a lot of tracks and that sucks because there's some amazing playing from Abe on This record. Abe just destroys Geo and Rubicon.

A Deftones album has never grown on me. My first impression always seems to remain.

I remember going out and buying S/T the morning it was released, listening to it in the car, and being instantly disappointing with how lazy it sounded.

Gore doesn't sound lazy to me (other than some of Stephen's riffs), but it is an artistic misstep I believe. The first 4 tracks are solid, though I don't like how they were mixed at all, but most of the rest of the album falls flat with some really odd stylistic choices (they really need to ditch the 80's butt rock style). Also really disappointed by the lack of intros/outros/segues as seen on KNY. Was really hoping they'd expand upon that on Gore or at least maintain it. But nope, pretty much completely absent.

Quote from: rainnyx4 on Apr 25, 2016, 04:18 AM
A Deftones album has never grown on me.  I remember going out and buying S/T the morning it was released and being instantly disappointing with how lazy it sounded.

Guess you have to grow on it.

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4368993/tee-hee-hee-o-s.gif)

(http://s31.postimg.org/46gtqxf97/85493643201405_2231_fhace.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 25, 2016, 02:51 AM

Quote from: Gore on Apr 24, 2016, 07:02 PM
I think that possibly it's getting a lot of love on the forum because it's still the honeymoon period and after waiting 4 years for an album a lot of people just really want it to be good but I suppose time will tell.

I keep seeing this from people who don't like the album. Does this actually ever happen to anyone?? I have never in my life ever experienced this "honeymoon period" people keep mentioning...  The only Deftones albums that I'm "meh" about are DE and KNY. Gore is straight gold, because it sounds amazing, not because of this weird phenomenon I've never before even heard of with music...

Haha it seems to happen on this board a lot.
Diamond eyes was the shit when it came out on this forum but now it's shat on.
SNW was hated now more and more here it's given the love it deserves.

Quote from: illthrowROCKS@U on Apr 25, 2016, 02:51 AM

Quote from: Gore on Apr 24, 2016, 07:02 PM
I think that possibly it's getting a lot of love on the forum because it's still the honeymoon period and after waiting 4 years for an album a lot of people just really want it to be good but I suppose time will tell.

I keep seeing this from people who don't like the album. Does this actually ever happen to anyone?? I have never in my life ever experienced this "honeymoon period" people keep mentioning...  The only Deftones albums that I'm "meh" about are DE and KNY. Gore is straight gold, because it sounds amazing, not because of this weird phenomenon I've never before even heard of with music...

My honeymoon period is over with the album. I still like most of the songs. I'm skipping a few more frequently - I still think it's a solid effort. I'm honestly not sure where it ranks for me.

I think Gore is probably my second favorite Deftones album behind Saturday Night Wrist.

It's honestly the first Deftones album where I feel like I can't skip any tracks-- it flows too perfectly for that. I get bored with KNY before it's over, even though I like every song. I think it has something to do with the similar tempos between most of the tracks  Sometimes I don't feel like listening to "Beauty School" or "Sextape" when I'm listening to DE, and I don't find myself missing them when I skip. SNW has the couple of filler tracks plus "Mein". ST... not a fan of Lucky You at all. WP? As awesome as Maynard's part is, I feel like he ruins the end of the album on Passenger. Yeah, I said it, I don't like Passenger. His parts are too powerful. It kills the flow of the album, and to me Passenger sounds more like cool collaboration done for a movie or something. I can't remember the last time I listened to ATF front to back; I usually just jam random songs from it when I'm feeling aggressive and angsty.

But yeah. I've listened to Gore heavily since the leak- almost every day - and there isn't a song here that I don't at least really like. People seem to dislike Geometric Headdress, but that'd probably make my top four or five tracks. I love Chino on it. It does sound like three different songs mashed together, but all three songs are good and create an interesting juxtaposition. The spacier songs? Fucking great.

There's something really primal about Gore. It feels kind of tribal, almost. But at the same time it's really spacey, kind of futuristic sounding. It's an odd combo, but it keeps things interesting the entire time. It's a really unique record.

The album evokes a lot of different feelings and colors for me. I'd call pretty much every other Deftones album a "night time album" whereas Gore's an album I want to listen to on the brightest, hottest summer days. KNY was certainly a nighttime album; it sounded the best when I'd drive around late at night, looking at the blur of city lights.

To me, the sharp, thin sounds of the production make me think of a very bright, saturated, almost too-hot summer day. Yes, there are times when the drums get buried in the mix, but I don't really see problems with the guitars or Chino's voice. They're just shifted to a sort of different sound palette in my mind. I love how everything Frank does sounds on here, too. It's buried, but trying to break through. I see that as an artistic choice rather than necessarily "shit" production.

Then again, I know fuck all about sound engineering and production. But I  find it hard to believe that a band as big as Deftones had "shitty" production. They wanted this album to sound this way for a reason, I think. Some people might not like it, and that's fine, but I don't think it's objectively bad.