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Politics, Society etc.

Nailec · 665 · 220181

Offline Corleone

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Libya is fucked...shits about to hit the fan


Offline E-Money

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Libya is fucked...shits about to hit the fan

yea man, unfortunately I don't think any of those countries are even capable of having democracy.  we'll see what happens.  I'm so fucking tired of hearing about the middle east.  I wish we weren't so damn dependent on them. 


Offline bright lights, big city

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but the OIL!!!
Chappelle Show - Black Bush - Oil Scene

but seriously, we're seeing some history here. Good for the revolutionaries, but I agree that democracy is near impossible for most of these countries. What I'm trying to figure out is whether this hurts al Qaeda or the US the most.
DERP

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Offline E-Money

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I'm hoping it will force us to go get our own god damn oil!!  Did u hear the projections for gas around 2012?  They were saying it could go up to around 5$ per gallon.  Thats shits not gonna fly in America.  Remember when it got up to 4$ a gallon?  This country flipped a shit.  Everything is going up in price especially food.  I paid 14$ for tide detergent today.  I remember when that shit used to cost 8$.  America has some serious fucking issues man.  Shit is about to get wild.  Especially if we have a government shutdown.  Who knows tho... but I think its going to be a wild couple of years...


Offline bright lights, big city

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yeah I hear you man. If unemployment stays where it's at, or god forbid keeps rising, gas really hits $5, and food keeps going up, there's going to be hell. I don't see a revolution or anything, but you throw in the fact that our government can't get shit done... who knows.
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Offline E-Money

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So true man, Its amazing how bad its gotten in some states.  I'm moving back to California in July... Its crazy that the state has close to 30% unemployment and San Francisco is worried about taking care of illegal aliens and taking away the toys in happy meals.  I just don't get the Left at all.  Seems like those priorities are pretty fucked up to me.  I'm for worrying about our kids future and not burdening them with all this debt.  Shit is insane and just unacceptable.   


Offline ben

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Did you guys read that article describing how our world is pretty much going to look like a toilet loaded with 20-year old shit by 2050?


Offline bright lights, big city

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haha i believe it.
That funny about Cali though. But thats California for ya. IL is also pretty bad off, taxes keep getting raised. They just raised property and income taxes, while unemployment still goes up. An interesting thing the IL governor is trying to do is consolidate all school districts. We have 950 here, and he wants to lower that number to 250, eliminating administrative jobs that make well over $100k. Believe it or not, we have administrative ASSISTANTS somehow making $115,000 a year. How the hell does that happen?

We have hope here, that's about it, like when Obama got elected. Today we'll find out Rahm will succeed Daley as mayor. He claims to have big plans for jobs, but whatever.
DERP

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Bright Lights !..Why the fuck are you so damn awesome? Cant you be a piece of shit sometimes?


Offline deftones86

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Well gas prices and well the price of everything is going up anyway since we are about to hit peak oil. so everything that is made of plastic, or gets trucked in or shipped in is going to get more and more expensive. read up on peak oil the next 10 to 20 years are going to be a nightmare.


Offline Variable

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I don't mean to sound like an ass.  But I just scrolled through the post on this page and I think you guys might be being a little over dramatic about everything.
They have been talking about almost being at Peak Oil since the 60s at least.  The most famous guess was that we would hit it in 2000, and to my knowledge, most experts say we already hit it in 03-05.  The world is just currently adjusting to the fact that we are going to have to move on from fossil fuels.  And we will;  We will do it just fine too.  Trust me, the world will not go hungry and cold all because some rich dude has a ton of money invested in Oil.  Ultimately the "Oil" companies all know that they have to transition into "energy" companies;  Which is what they really always have been anyways.  

And democracy in the Middle East maybe not being possible?  Are you guys serious?  Did I miss something?  Did some weird ass parallel SL board get made where I am the board Liberal and the Majority on this board are Glen Beck "conservatives"?  

Of course democracy is a probable possibility in places like Egypt and Libya if they want it.  Are you telling me that Libya is fucked because they are getting rid of Kadhafi?  Really?  That kind of seems like being in 1945 and saying " Oh Italy is really going to be fucked if they get rid of Mussolini "??????

Just because these people may have not read Voltaire or John Locke does not mean they are not capable of creating and maintaining a democratic state.  I would say that it's more of a questions whether or not the U.S. , U.K., and the rest of the E.U. for that matter, can stay the fuck out of their business and just let them do their thing.  Like America really would have succeed if France would have come over and appointed a puppet president for us......

Anyways.  Bright lights, you know you're my boy and all.  But saying that Chicago got hope after Obama was elected just means that the city is naive at the very best.  I'm sure Rahm will just fuck things up more.  I don't know, it might work on a smaller level like a city. But more than likely he will just make all the same mistakes.......He was Obama's Chief Of Staff after all.

And if the rest of you are so worried about the world and the Country, do you have any intelligent solutions or suggestions to make things better?

One good point that a few of you brought up is rising cost and higher taxes.  City, State, and Federal Governments trying to "compensate" for the economy.  But have they vowed to lower any of these prices or taxes once we recover?  Or as usual will they just hope we all have been conditioned to it and keep things the way they are.  The same accountability needs to be put on businesses ( like why did airline ticket prices not go down when oil prices did?)  The consumers demand can be a pretty influential tool in the market, if anyone cares enough to make a stink about something.

Anyways.  It just kind of seemed like there was a lot of irrational/misplaced fear and hopelessness on this page.  I am by no means a fan of the status quo politics in this country or the world at that.  But it's definitely not all doom and gloom.  
« Last Edit: Feb 22, 2011, 10:49 PM by Variable »


Offline bright lights, big city

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Oh you're absolutely right about Chicago, Trey. It's just that sort of energy people got when Bush left office, like "Oh hey we have fresh faces, (supposedly) fresh ideals to lead us now." It's just that Rahm's easily the best option we have, and he'll be the first new mayor in 22 years, so it's some hope. But yeah, most everyone in politics here have the same connections, so it's not like some drastic change is coming. He does have some interesting plans to grow the city and create some jobs. Hopefully it works out.

Do you really think we'll stay out of these revolutions though? I hope we do, but you brought up the "puppet president". This seems like an ordeal to just let itself play out, but you know we'll have to butt in and support somebody. And Gaddafi is a violent leader that needs to be brought down.
DERP

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Bright Lights !..Why the fuck are you so damn awesome? Cant you be a piece of shit sometimes?


Offline Variable

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Gaddafi.  Ha, is that how you spell his name?  I was trying to figure it out, went to google and saw 3 different options and just went with my first thought.  I have a feeling you're right about that though.

And yeah Mark, I figured that you and I have been talking about politics on this board for long enough that you would know I wasn't insulting you with that.  I just still find the amount of unjustified hype surrounding Obama when he was elected to be amazing.  I understand he was a Senator from Illinois and thats all the more reason for you guys to get hyped up.  But still.... You know what I'm saying without me explaining it.

I also agree that Rahm is probably your best mainstream option.  I have no idea what kind of 3rd party candidates you guys have running for Mayor.  But from a mainstream viewpoint he probably is your best option.  Mainly because Chicago politics are known for just being straight dirty ( its not called the windy city because of the wind after all ) And he probably has the grit, and ultimately the reputation to protect, to keep things in order.  Plus from what I can tell he really knows a lot about the city, what it's like to live there, and seems like he might maybe care at least a little bit.  ( I hope I didn't just give him too much credit )

But no, unfortunately I do not think that we will stay out of these revolutions (ill share a personal story to confirm why in a sec).  For some reason, Americans think that we have to be a part of everything.  We have some people saying it because of what they have to profit from it.  Then others saying it because they have been led to believe ( probably by those who have something to profit ) that it's our responsibility as the world superpower.  Which is total bull shit.  As the word superpower we have no responsibility to kill Iraqi and Afghan children to violently enforce our view of government.  We have no right, or responsibility to empower leaders who will do as we wish and let us gain off the backs of their citizens.  We definitely have no right to influence their "democracy" with force or by using U.S. tax payers dollars.  It's absurd to believe so too (if you really understand what a free society is anyways )

When I think about recent U.S. foreign policy I think about some of the speeches I have heard/read from Bobby Kennedy talking about a compassionate revolution and how he wanted America to be known as a Compassionate nation.  I also think about the words of the more recent Ron Paul who talks about standing up for what is right without physically intervening in other countries affairs.  In essence I think their messages are very similar.  One ran for president as a Democrat, the other as a Republican.  But just as intelligent human beings they realized this is an issue that transcends right and left.   
But see, neither of them have anything to gain from War/violence.  This is very simply why Bobby was a assassinated and why Ron was black balled by the media.  The people who do have something to gain, have a lot of money and a lot of incentives to make sure they are allowed to do as they please.  And the will of the American people is very pliable......anyways

My personal story.
Very recently the Marine Corps got a new Commandant ( General Amos ).  He visited the base I am stationed at ( MCAGCC 29 Palms, CA. )  And wanted to speak to a small group of the Marines who just returned from Afghanistan.  Marines consider their Corpsmen to be one and the same as them, so they also asked that I show up at this small meeting with the Commandant to represent the Sailors who deployed with the Marines recently. 
So, I'm in this small chapel listening to the New Commandant of the Marine Corps and the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps spout out their usual rhetoric about how awesome it is to be a Marine and what not.  Then General Amos started speaking about this document that he wrote which pretty much outlines his view of what the U.S. Marine Corps will look like, and be doing, for the next 20 years. 
Long story short.  He said we aren't leaving Afghanistan any time soon.  We will more than likely have conflicts in other Middle Eastern nations.  And more interestingly, that he is certain that the Marine Crops will be deployed for combat operations in the horn of Africa.  ( we are already there btw, just not engaging in combat )
I very quickly became furious at this thought.  We used to be a nation that did everything we could to avoid conflict ( we stayed out of the French revolution, the American public wanted nothing to do with WW1 or WW2 until they felt forced to participate.....)  Now we are looking for violence to participate in.  We are actively seeking conflict.  Predicting where we can go be violent next before it is even close to materializing or being necessary.  I was getting so angry that I started to have to do some breathing techniques to calm down.  I had a thought, that I should stand up during question and answer time and ask him a simple question.
See you have to understand that at this time I was only home for maybe a month from a 12 month deployment to Afghanistan.  During my time there I saw a large number of dead/wounded/mutilated Marines.  I also lost a friend who I consider to be just one of the most amazing human beings that I have ever or probably will ever meet.  So, I'm a little sensitive to the human cost of war.  Those dead faces were still very fresh in my head.  And for a while it was my responsibility to place their bodies in the body bags and drape the flags over them.  So I had those memories fresh too.
The question I wanted to ask, but confess that I didn't have the courage to; Was something to the effect of "Sir, can you go ahead and take a look around this room.  Can you please point out exactly which Marines in this room that you are willing to sacrifice, and see dead in order to participate in these conflicts, which are not yet conflicts?  Can you just point out which Marines are in this room that you are OK with telling their families that their Father or Husband wont be coming home?  Which Marines you don't mind seeing losing a head?  Or maybe just them losing both legs?..................

you get the point of where I wanted to go with my question. But I pussed out because everyone knows that questions are supposed to be screened and I wold catch a world of shit for it and I just didn't feel I could even get the words out to get my point across. 

My friends, who were in the room with me, and that I talked to later; understood though.  And that might be the more important take away.  I think this coming generation that will be taking more and more power and influence in our society soon, has really learned a lesson living through Bush and these two wars.  Vietnam should have been this lesson, and we learned it to a point.  But once they changed the play book from "communism" into "terrorist" that lesson was kind of forgotten.  I just hope we do a better job.

But in the mean time, that was just a long way of saying that no.  In no way do I think we will stay out of any kind of conflict in the Middle East any time soon. 


Offline bright lights, big city

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That's what I thought, but yeah I would've totally pussied out too. I'm wondering how it'll get spun, how we're in danger if we don't go and help Libya, Morocco, and Egypt. I see Yemen as an excuse because it supposedly is a supporter al Qaeda. But then what is al Qaeda doing during all these uprisings? Revolutionaries out for democracies can't be helping them at all in the middle east.

Then's there's the issue with Juarez/El Paso. Aren't Americans more at risk there from cartels than they are from North Africans? What do you hear about all that, even though I guess you're in Cali these days?
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Bright Lights !..Why the fuck are you so damn awesome? Cant you be a piece of shit sometimes?


Offline Variable

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I don't think that Al Qaeda is doing a whole lot of anything these days.  Honestly, although I totally DO NOT support the war on terror; We really have given countries and communities quite the incentive to kick Al Qaeda the fuck out.  People have no idea how and when America will overreact next.  
To my knowledge;  The Taliban has pretty much cut all ties to Al Qaeda in an attempt to de radicalize their image.  The war lords in Iraq and Afghanistan both realize that it's bad business to be associated with Al Qaeda.  

I almost dare to say that the only place Al Qaeda might still have a real influence is in the tribal areas of Pakistan.  But I will admit that I have pretty much zero proof or recent reading to back that statement up.  Someone in the CIA or Homeland Security might be laughing their ass off at how ignorant that is.

But I honestly don't think that we have much to fear from Al Qaeda anymore.  Reality has to set in eventually.  Most Muslims are not radical fundamentalist just like most Christians in America would not associate themselves with the westboro baptist church.  I seriously doubt that these people are going to risk their lives, to bring down a dictator, in hopes of bringing democracy to their country, just to let a radical terrorist group seize some kind of power in their country.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

And I absolutely believe that American Citizens ( not service members ) are at more risk from the drug cartels of Mexico and South America than they are of "terrorist". You even hear people talking about this threat on the news.  But is anyone talking about how this shit is our fault?  
About how Juarez and TJ only exist because Al Capone used them to make moonshine during prohibition.  Then once we decided to make further prohibition on substances like Marijuana and Cocaine, these cities were used again as staging points to bring prohibited substances into the U.S. Is anyone in the mainstream talking about this?  
Is anyone talking about how these drug cartels would not exist if it were not for the "war" on drugs?  That if these substances were made legal, it would free up BILLIONS of tax payer dollars and make entire crime empires crumble overnight.  Is anyone talking about how the "war" on drugs stops virtually no body from doing drugs, but has turned Americas Police force into the bad guys?  That we lock up non violent "criminals" who committed victimless crimes in the same place as rapist and murders.  In result turning these non violent "criminals" into violent people due to being products of their incarceration.  Is anybody talking about this?  

I think the obvious answer is, not really.  But gee we sure don't mind bringing up "illegal" immigration while we talk about the violence spreading over the boarder.  

Man, you really know how to pick the subjects that get me fired up.  no homo.  
« Last Edit: Feb 23, 2011, 01:17 PM by Variable »


Offline blixa

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the problem for me in regards to the middle east is that i have always hoped and wished the governments there would be more secular. fat fucking chance.


Offline bright lights, big city

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But I honestly don't think that we have much to fear from Al Qaeda anymore.  Reality has to set in eventually.  Most Muslims are not radical fundamentalist just like most Christians in America would not associate themselves with the westboro baptist church.  I seriously doubt that these people are going to risk their lives, to bring down a dictator, in hopes of bringing democracy to their country, just to let a radical terrorist group seize some kind of power in their country.  It just doesn't make sense to me.
great point. As for drugs, it's been eating at me too for awhile. It's practically on US soil, yet we don't really hear much other than that sometimes they re-iterate that oh hey, 50 people die everyday in a city right in America's backyard. And then that's it.
DERP

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Offline Variable

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the problem for me in regards to the middle east is that i have always hoped and wished the governments there would be more secular. fat fucking chance.
Not any time soon.  You kind of have to think of them as being like Western Civ 400 years ago.  Their society will progress eventually; probably much faster than we did because of the media outlets available today.  But they have to have their time to progress in order for it to be genuine.  

One thing that I don't hear a lot of people talk about; Unless we are talking about their feelings towards Jews; Is the amount of racism in the region.  Afghans HATE black people.  I mean they are blatantly racist against black people in general.  It was comical to us, as Americans, even the black guys, because it was so ignorant.  But we all kind of grimaced a little at the same time because we realized just how far behind their society really is.  Afghans HATE Arabs maybe even more.  Which is why it was so shocking to the intelligence community that the Taliban teamed up with Bin  Laden. 

and I think Arab racism is fairly obvious.  Look at the way they talk about Jews or treat minorities within their own borders.  People just don't really talk about how big of a problem this could really be.......
But I honestly don't think that we have much to fear from Al Qaeda anymore.  Reality has to set in eventually.  Most Muslims are not radical fundamentalist just like most Christians in America would not associate themselves with the westboro baptist church.  I seriously doubt that these people are going to risk their lives, to bring down a dictator, in hopes of bringing democracy to their country, just to let a radical terrorist group seize some kind of power in their country.  It just doesn't make sense to me.
great point. As for drugs, it's been eating at me too for awhile. It's practically on US soil, yet we don't really hear much other than that sometimes they re-iterate that oh hey, 50 people die everyday in a city right in America's backyard. And then that's it.
I vowed to write a legit book about this subject.  I started school up again recently so my research phase ( aka make me credible phase ) pretty much went to a halt.  Ill get back around to it someday though.  I was pretty much going to say that if you are a hard corps "Christian" or Hard corps "Republican" or Hard corps "conservatives" ( I put those names in quotes because I don't think most people who label themselves as such really know what that means ) Then you would truly and totally support at the very least the legalization of Marijuana.  Then prove to them why.  Thought it was a nice twist on a tired topic. 
« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2011, 08:35 AM by Variable »


Offline blixa

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arabs are very racist. speaking from experience. they have this illusion of grandeur that is very fucked up. i have to say that the arabisation process in iraq did work on a few ethnic minorities, unfortunately. arabs have done so much shit that would make it valid for everyone else in the middle east to dislike them. kurds aren't very trust worthy either. at least with arabs you know what you're going to get.

i was kind of looking through the political parties in iraq and all of them are muslim this and islam that. it was very depressing.


Offline Variable

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I think the delusions of grandure are rampant all over that region of the world.  It's strange too, because on the surface it seems like they suck as whole races compared to the rest of the world.  I mean, compare Afghanistan or Iraq to pretty much any country in North America, South America, Europe, and most of Asia ( yes I know Afghanistan is technically in Asia ) and They pretty much suck in comparison.  But they still insist they are the best at everything. 

I actually had a good afghan friend of mine get really confused because I beat him at arm wrestling one night.  He said it was impossible because he was an Afghan and a Muslim and I was not.  Therefore he was automatically better than me at everything.  I was the only American in the room, so the rest of the Afghans in the room agreed with him.  At this time in my life I was in MUCH better shape than I am now.  I also knew my audience.  So I challenged my friend to a push up contest.  The entire room was very convinced that I would lose.  I knew I could do about 100 straight slow pushups at the time.  So when he got around 10 and dropped out, I stayed down and challenged someone else.  I got through like 6 of them before they conceded and we all had a nice moment of enlightenment together. 

Many of my Marines had very similar stories.  Most about UFC type wrestling though. 


Offline blixa

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seriously? that's fucked up. see -  that mentality is what has got to change first. do you encounter that sort of thing a lot? the only time i actually saw someone stepping down in regards to ethnic pride was, and wait for it, saddam hussein. during the 90's europe and other countries were giving christian minorities a chance to migrate out due to their bad circumstance and saddam went on public tv and said that he wasn't going to give the christian minorities a visa because he didn't want to "give away his petals and keep the thorns". first time and last time i ever heard an arab man address non-arab christians as petals. although maliki made a heartfelt statement about the assyrians fleeing to other countries because of the war and was urging them to stay because it wasn't good for iraq to lose its indigenous people in such large numbers. it made my heard soften for five minutes.

my brother does ufc fighting. he has been in one actual public fight.