Sharing Lungs - Deftones Online Community

Politics, Society etc.

Nailec · 665 · 220191

Offline alvarezbassist17

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 7063
  • llama-mama drama
That's super-Marxist bullshit for so many reasons, and I think people that propagate this garbage are fucking pricks.  Number one: I bet that guy isn't paying everything he can afford to the government in taxes voluntarily, so he's a hypocrite, and should probably just fuck off and kill himself.  The kind of attitude where people think that they can just bring down successful people (now bear in mind, as a Libertarian, I am referring to people who made their money by voluntary means, not through corporatist favoritism and subsidization) and that will help them somehow, as opposed to the attitude of trying to pursue the same wealth by adding wealth to society, is just disgusting, narcissistic, unhealthy, and unproductive.

Now, on to the other arguments :D

One of the first things that these guys always neglect to mention is that the rich already pay the vast, vast majority of income taxes in the US.  Here's a chart from the IRS that completely explains itself:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08inratesharesnap.pdf

When the top 50% of income earners pay NINETY-SEVEN PERCENT of the entire income tax take, and the top TENTH OF A PERCENT are paying EIGHTEEN percent of income taxes, I don't understand how anyone can say that it's being put on the backs of the middle and lower-class.  

More on this, and my second point in the article below.  Back when the tax rates were as high as the guy in your article said they were, nobody paid those rates.  They either stopped making money when they arrived at a high tax bracket, or shifted the money they made into capital gains.

http://mises.org/daily/1796

But a huge important point is that the rich are really important to an economy.  In a system where all wealth is earned voluntarily (or you're working towards a society that does so), people who become rich do so because of either some inherent, marketable talent, or an inherent talent for business in general.  When people earn more and more money, they don't just sit on it or spend it.  They either invest it in a new or existing business, or give it to a bank or other organization that will do it for them.  Putting aside the fact that the rich obviously have a greater amount of money to invest in a certain project than the middle class, wouldn't we want the resources to be directed by people who already have a talent for directing resources and earning a profit?  What should be fucking obvious to people is that everyone's standards of living rise the most when you decrease prices for essential goods economy-wide.  That doesn't happen if you fuck up the allocation of resources and capital with government redistribution, from any source: inflation, direct taxation, regulatory favoritism, subsidization, etc.

More on this:

http://mises.org/daily/2073

http://mises.org/daily/4820

A separate point that this guy is too retarded to grasp, the problem is that there has been a MASSIVE fucking spike in government spending, I mean like 25% of GDP from JUST the federal gov't, which is unheard of in "peacetime."  And there's the question that they can't answer: "if the government gets more in tax revenue, don't you think they're going to just spend even more?"  Because the answer is, and always has been, YES.

He just has absolutely no fucking clue what he's talking about.  Just a huge jokester.
« Last Edit: Aug 08, 2011, 05:36 AM by alvarezbassist17 »


Offline tarkil

  • SL Stock Owner
  • Organ Donator
  • *
    • Posts: 8994
  • Screw you guys, I'm going home !
Not related, but still interesting...

"Economic Armageddon": Washington’s Response to a Failed Ecomomy: More War

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25813



If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile off my face.


Offline downtownpony

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1086
  • severed
So I befriended Jermaine Rogers on Facebook because I like his artwork (He's done some deftones shirts and posters). He occasionally makes political posts like the one shown below. I thought I'd post it here just to give yall some insight into the other sides POV.


Jermaine- Obamas mistake = TOO NICE.

and in a way, too much of a 'human being' for the job.
good man, poor politician: flip that, and you got Bill Clinton...
51 minutes ago · LikeUnlike ·

   
            Muhammad Omar Ghaznavi- Amen.
           
          o
            Amy Fernandez VanRoo- Couldn't have said it better J. I feel exactly the same way.....
             
          o
            Shannon O'Rear Palmer- you hit the nail on the head with this one.
           
          o
            Richie Goodtimes- I'm not sure if you are aware of this phenomenon, but there are people out there that just don't like people with darker skin than their own.
            .
          o
            Erik Gustafson- I just hope he is taking off his bipartisian hat and putting on his gonna get shit done hat for the next 4. He will have my vote of course but Im not 100% happy with current progress. Dude is just TOOOOO NICE!!!!!
           
          o
            Jermaine Rogers ‎@ richie - i got a circa 1992 skinhead 'bottle scar' to prove it.

            obama had a mandate.
            screw trying to get along with these animals.
            much as i cant stand her, shoulda made Hillary the VP...or attorney general...or something.

            Obama needed a 'Bobby' to back him up...
           
          o
            Jill Gallagher- I don't think Clinton is a 'bad' man, he's just got unsavory weaknesses & an inability to shut up at the moment...
           
          o
            Shannon O'Rear Palmer- i love the guy though. maybe this is why i'd never make a good politician; I like the fact that he's human, that he's nice. i know i'll vote for him again.
           
          o
            Jill Gallagher- I had a sticker from cafepress.com on my car right after Abama's speech at the DNC in '04. It said "Cinton/Obama '08" Sadly, Hil has the balls for the job & Barack really doesn't. Poor fella, he was practically served up...
           
          o
            Jermaine Rogers- i think he should STAY nice.
            thats why he was elected.
            STAY NICE, and appoint Hillary as VP.
            he needs someone who will be the 'bad guy'...with pleasure.

            most folks saw it as a blip on the radar when Rahm Emmanuel left his cabinet. i told everyone i knew that it was a big deal.
            when Emmanuel split, Obama was 'de-fanged'.
           
          o
            Jill Gallagher Tep on Hil, yep on Rahm the Animal Steel.
           
          o
            El Roi- Obama came up in the Chicago political system. If he wasn't aware that National politics are play for keeps and wasn't prepared to play hardball, he should have never stepped into the ring. All he did was give false hope to a lot of people who had never participate in the political process because they felt that their participation would be futile. Obama's capitulation to the GOP/Teabag Party at nearly every turn has assured those same people of the futility of their participation. Obama could have turned his back on the corporate shills that make up most of the Democratic Party and decided to do whatever he could over the four years he would have before they dumped him. He could have had the courage to tell them that there was no way he was going to appoint to his administration a bunch of Clintonian hacks and corporate shills. He could have decided that he was going to do the right thing even if it assured him a one term presidency and ruined his chance at a post-presidential career on the lecture circuit. He has followed through with almost none of his campaign promises. Considering the way he treated truly righteous people the likes of Dr. Cornel West so badly for questioning his actions, how can anyone think that he anything but part of the system. Face it, he merely says things we want to hear?
           
          o
            El Roi- ‎"...he should STAY nice," Isn't this the process that progressives have been pursuing with these intellectual midgets for decades. Isn't this the strategy that has gotten the Democratic Party screwed over again and again by the GOP and now the Teabagger Party. The time for appeasement and out and out capitulation to these idiots is over. It's time to call a spade a spade and if they don't like being enlightened to the fact that they are idiots with no sense of self-preservation...well, f*ck them!
         
          o
            Jeff LaChance- I wish he were a bit more cut throat, he's dealing with alot of old white men who want to hold onto their money...he needs a bit more "Dolemite" in 'im. http://www.youtube.com/wat​ch?v=prDZm18Abjk&feature=r​elated
           
          o
            Jermaine Rogers- nothing is that black and white, elroi.
            study your history very closely.
            even most conservatives are not what you think they are.
            they dont have fangs and tails and eat their young.
            theyve just got a faulty POV...from OUR perspectives...which to them is 'faulty'.
            so, in many ways its not about 'right and wrong' in domestic politics...but majority opinion and raw, human ethics...as they are dictated by current social leanings.
            its like inheriting a thread spun blanket which is uneven on one end. somewhere in the weaving of the blanket, the weaver got off track...didnt stay balanced. as more and more progress was made on the blanket, that little miscalculation grew and grew...and so now, when the blanket is finished, the error is plainly visible.
            the real way to really fix it, is to unravel the entire thing...take it all apart, at least to the point where the weaver went wrong, and start over. but, you cant do that with govt.
            too many folks need 'the blanket'...the luxury of time and money to blow it up is non-existent.
            so, if Obama decides to try and artifically adjust things, there is a certain amount of diplomacy that he must maintain.
            study your Abe Lincoln.
            a lot of my fellow liberal friends make the mistake of confusing 'diplomacy' with 'surrender'. its not the same. it never was.
            i think Obama gave TOO much, in an effort to really cause CHANGE in the way things are done in DC. THAT is his naivete.
            one administration will not change the system up there.

            only one thing will do that...and i dont think this country has the stomach for it.
           
          o
            Cynthia Douglas- Way too nice!! *sigh*
           
          o
            El Roi
            I agree with much that you say JR. It is reasonable and well put. However, if he were truly well intentioned from the beginning, he could have possibly averted many of his glaring miscalculations by appointing far more qualified individuals...


Offline alvarezbassist17

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 7063
  • llama-mama drama
Wowie, I honestly can't believe people like that exist.  Where did Obama deviate from the Democrat platform at all?  Besides maybe the war, but most Democrat presidents started wars in the 20th century; it used to be part of their platform for "stimulating" the economy.  This is why I like talking about policy so much more than politics, soooo much double-speak.


Offline downtownpony

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1086
  • severed
It's just crazy to me that people can have such blind faith in Obama. He is literally the only person I have ever heard praising the President.


Offline Variable

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 10585
  • No better friend. No worse enemy
Wowie, I honestly can't believe people like that exist.  Where did Obama deviate from the Democrat platform at all?  Besides maybe the war, but most Democrat presidents started wars in the 20th century; it used to be part of their platform for "stimulating" the economy.  This is why I like talking about policy so much more than politics, soooo much double-speak.
Oh, look at you and your Orwell reference. Very nice

Clinton was 4 times the president that Obama is now, and I am not Clinton fan. I don't dislike Obama as a person, but I do not agree with him as a politician. People like that don't pay attention to policy or probably even politics. This guy is still bedazzled by the philosophical illusions of Obamas campaign for "change" as the first black president. But he obviously had no idea what he's talking about.

Unfortunately, MORE people like him exist, than people who actually educate themselves.


Offline Nailec

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1435
"there is nothing wrong with our country. there is something wrong with our politics" obama said recently.

but then he went to his re-election campaign to collect some money at a fundraising event :D

oh the irony



Offline alvarezbassist17

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 7063
  • llama-mama drama
Awww, poor Obama :(

To be fair, any president or party that had been elected in 08 would have been dealt this shitty economy, and none of them would have handled it any better (OBVIOUSLY besides Ron Paul).  But that still doesn't change the fact that virtually every single action Obama has taken has been counterproductive in the worst way.  He has no idea what he's doing, and if he does, that's worse.
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2011, 05:40 AM by alvarezbassist17 »


Offline E-Money

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 2517
Awww, poor Obama :(

To be fair, no matter the president or party had been elected in 08 would have been dealt this shitty economy, and none of them would have handled it any better (OBVIOUSLY besides Ron Paul).  But that still doesn't change the fact that virtually every single action Obama has taken has been counterproductive in the worst way.  He has no idea what he's doing, and if he does, that's worse.

completely agree,  approval rating dropped below 40 today.  hopefully he's on his way out. 


Offline tarkil

  • SL Stock Owner
  • Organ Donator
  • *
    • Posts: 8994
  • Screw you guys, I'm going home !

Offline tarkil

  • SL Stock Owner
  • Organ Donator
  • *
    • Posts: 8994
  • Screw you guys, I'm going home !

Offline tarkil

  • SL Stock Owner
  • Organ Donator
  • *
    • Posts: 8994
  • Screw you guys, I'm going home !

Offline downtownpony

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1086
  • severed
And for you RonPaulers :

http://gawker.com/5831167/jon-stewart-why-is-the-media-ignoring-ron-paul

So fucked up. I've never seen any of those news shows though. I get most of my news from the web and the radio. They don't really talk about him on the radio.


Offline downtownpony

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1086
  • severed
I also heard that he would have won that straw poll if it wasn't for Bachmann buying like 400 votes. If he would have won I'm sure the mainstream media would have just started off at who got 2nd place.


Offline Oldnewtype

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 7527
  • Light Is Life Is Love Is Like It Is Live

Offline Variable

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 10585
  • No better friend. No worse enemy
And for you RonPaulers :

http://gawker.com/5831167/jon-stewart-why-is-the-media-ignoring-ron-paul
I was SO going to post this video, but you beat me to it you ass hole. Ive been way to busy lately.


Offline tarkil

  • SL Stock Owner
  • Organ Donator
  • *
    • Posts: 8994
  • Screw you guys, I'm going home !
Oh well, what can I say, I have more time to surf around the net and read stuff now so....



If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile off my face.


Offline alvarezbassist17

  • Organ Donator
  • ******
    • Posts: 7063
  • llama-mama drama
@Corey :

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html

Warren Buffett is a fuckin polesmoking bullshitter.  Not only is he a liar, but he is a hypocrite on several levels, two of which being that the Treasury does take donations, so if he really believes his bullshit, he should be giving more; and that if the government is really better at "investing" rich people's money than they are, then he could just fucking shut down his stock ticker and leave it to them.

Here's a good debunking:

Peter Schiff - Debunking Warren Buffett & other tax myths (8-Jul-11)(FINANCE & ECONOMICS series)

I could continue, but do you really buy into this garbage?
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011, 11:38 AM by alvarezbassist17 »


Offline Nailec

  • Ohms
  • *****
    • Posts: 1435
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8655106/Im-starting-to-think-that-the-Left-might-actually-be-right.html

its some days old now. but it is slowly getting in the discourse here in germany.

seems like some conservatives want to leave the sinking boat?