Sharing Lungs - Deftones Online Community

"Ohms" - Deftones New Album

Started by Drop-Dead, Aug 20, 2020, 04:29 PM

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Draken

I was at that show in Atlanta! They opened with Rats! Rats! Rats! and I arrived late to the venue so I missed most of the opening act Deadsy but I did get to listen to them close with Flowing Glower which was absolutely amazing. I love that song.

Vesanic, great interview btw ^ I can't believe I saw Deftones live before you haha.

Quote from: Vesanic on Aug 25, 2020, 02:38 AM
Quick write-up:

I actually like Saturday Night Wrist, quite a lot. I bought it in 2007 after catching the Hole in the Earth promo clip on YouTube. I remember thinking that was the most directly emotional Chino had sounded (from the little I knew about) if that makes sense, and the composition sounded very fresh, I loved Frank's ambient and the outro breakdown hit me deep.

The Konami Code is one of the Deftones songs I've overplayed to death (and there aren't as many as you'd think for someone like me). Something about it was different while still sounding very Deftones. Some kind of peaceful innocence mixed with the surrounding melancholy, I don't really have the words. I even remember trying to figure out piano at the time, and I had come up with my own version of the song. No credit to me obviously, it sounded beautiful on piano.

And for as disjointed as the band was and how pieced together to writing process was, I still don't feel the album is as disjointed as many people think. There's only one point in the sequence where I'm thrown off, is the Konami Code into Xerces. I like both tracks (though Xerces may be my least favorite SNW song), but the lack of transition there doesn't work for me. You'd think it's a very Deftones move to go like this, I just don't think it worked that well in that case. And then going into Rats! after that is debatable too. I do like Rats! though. I remember someone on here criticising the very simple lyricism, but the feeling of anger came out really well and sincere. It's definitely in their few all-time heaviest cuts and it didn't feel heavy for the sake of being heavy. That's something for a metal band imo. Hell, does anyone remember another instance of Deftones playing fucking death metal? Someone said Gore felt more cohevise than SNW... I disagree.

Hell, Pink Cellphone used to be the running gag of this forum. I actually did like Pink Cellphone. I thought, for as random as it sounded, it really fitted Saturday Night Wrist. I still think stuff like that and The Konami Code could be played live with success if done correctly.

Kimdracula still is one of my favorite songs. This texture, are you kidding me? It's one of those few songs where you know you can't put this band in a box no matter how hard you try.

Combat comes as a personal preference since I witnessed first hands the only time they pulled it off in front of an audience. I liked it a lot when I first heard it too.

And Riviere. Fucking Riviere man. I didn't notice it on the first few listens, felt like that mandatory ballad by an otherwise heavy band, but holy shit. Those guitar chords hit right when they need to. Chino's vocals come off very sincere and almost fragile. Makes me tear up every time, I'm not ashamed. Absolutely my favorite SNW track and in my top 5 Deftones songs. I may or may not have played a tiny role in them starting playing it live during the KNY cycle, I'll never know.

My two main problems with Saturday Night Wrist are, for one, its touring cycle. I'll never blame a man for gaining weight, I'm not a fucking gossip magazine worker, and I can't be THAT shallow. But how they had all put on weight, especially Chino, was a sign that all those dark years had taken their toll. Stephen admitted, in an interview after the release of SNW, that Chino had a really hard time singing, and he felt very bad for him. It's not to say all the shows sucked, and none of them did from start to end, there was just this inconsistency. Most of the time (not all the time), they'd sound good for a minute and get tired the next minute, and you could hear it if you paid attention (which, as an off-the-record archivist, I did). Don't get me wrong: there are many great performances in the SNW cycle.

My second problem is knowing the potential that was wasted into this. We all know the production could have been a lot better and in fact, was going to be a lot better: they had fucking Bob Ezrin working with them. Sure enough a couple of you don't know, there's a bunch of demos they made with him, they're all available on YouTube. Had they gone through with him and completed these songs and come up with one decent sequence... this album was going to be on another level. We all know it. Stephen knew it at the time and was probably pissed over it.

I'll finish this very biased review with my favorite performance of Rats which, in my opinion, represents what I just said really well. Up until the first chorus, Chino is almost studio-like: the screams, the highs, the rasp, to the point it gives me the biggest chills. After that... it gets inconsistent. Again, don't twist my words. The rest of the band is top-notch through and through, but Deftones songs have always relied a lot on Chino. If he doesn't sound as good, the whole music takes the toll. Hope you get what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXquohLxF3Q

mandalay

As far as production, song writing, performance, and overall style nothing will ever top White Pony.  Every second counts on that record, and every second is perfect.  There is not one single weak or boring moment.  A trip of a record, and in my opinion the greatest record I have ever heard in my life. 

If WP was the cool vision of the future, ST was the band's knucklehead past that was somehow released after its predecessor.  Much like the Beatles and Madonna, the band reinvented themselves yet again in an extremely interesting way.  Another record, where each song stands on its own yet all relate back to each other.  Their sound, look, and songwriting evolved in such a fundamental way.  Sometimes it's hard to believe it's the same band.

SNW is where they started repeating themselves a little bit, and it was a bit painful to watch.  There are some brilliant compositions on the record, like Kimdrac, Combat, and Beware, but there are some horrifying moments too like Rapture.  Xerces bores the shit outta me.  And I still shake my head every time I hear those four punchy notes from the main riff of HITE.  I personally appreciate Pink Cellphone except where the nonsense begins. 

DE was a phenomenal, hopeful, and unlikely return for the band.  Royal is truly their Phoenix rising.  I enjoy other tracks but do not appreciate in the same way as their previous works.  Maybe they lack a bit of depth or originality?  Some stuff sounds like an update of something from the past: Sextape / Digital Bath, Cmd/Ctrl / Rats, Beauty School / Minerva, etc.  There's also this weird thing in the songwriting where the verses are far catchier and memorable than the choruses - 976, Royal, and Cmd/Ctrl come to mind.  Also screaming "Guns! Razors! Knives!" never did much for me and just came off a little silly.

KNY sounds like it was recorded back-to-back with Diamond Eyes.  I struggle to enjoy much on this record.  Tempest and Rosemary are fine Deftones songs.  Leathers has one of the best pre/choruses ever written by the band, but the guitar work does not sound like Stef - it sounds like they hired some younger guy to write that riff, but it certainly kicks ass.  I still can't believe they titled a song "Romantic Dreams."

Gore is a bit forgettable overall.  Many complain about the mix/production, but to me it's the underlying songs and performances that are just middling.  I will say, though, Geo has a brilliant chorus.  Acid is trying hard to be interesting.  Hearts/Wires and Phantom Bride are also somewhat very strong songs. 

Honestly not feeling this new song at all.  It does nothing for me.  It sounds very safe.  And I'm really hoping the rest of the album fares better.

As far as pre-WP, I still cannot get over the riff and lyrics in BQAD.  Mascara is another one that showed Deftones were in a league of their own.  And on Adrenaline, Root is my jam <3

E-Money

I listened to White Pony start to finish a few months ago for the anniversary... that record still sounds 20 years ahead of current time. So futuristic and creative. It will forever be their crown and jewel. I would just love to hear some new sounds on this record. This is my favorite band because they always push the envelope while still sounding like Deftones. I just have a feeling this will be the best record of the Sergio Era. I know they can still make a banging record. Ohms is a great start.


Still a little bummed it's the closer... wish they would have given us a different song first. But oh well. Great tunes ahead!

buflen

#723
Quote from: mandalay on Aug 25, 2020, 07:05 AM
As far as production, song writing, performance, and overall style nothing will ever top White Pony.  Every second counts on that record, and every second is perfect.  There is not one single weak or boring moment.  A trip of a record, and in my opinion the greatest record I have ever heard in my life. 

If WP was the cool vision of the future, ST was the band's knucklehead past that was somehow released after its predecessor.  Much like the Beatles and Madonna, the band reinvented themselves yet again in an extremely interesting way.  Another record, where each song stands on its own yet all relate back to each other.  Their sound, look, and songwriting evolved in such a fundamental way.  Sometimes it's hard to believe it's the same band.

SNW is where they started repeating themselves a little bit, and it was a bit painful to watch.  There are some brilliant compositions on the record, like Kimdrac, Combat, and Beware, but there are some horrifying moments too like Rapture.  Xerces bores the shit outta me.  And I still shake my head every time I hear those four punchy notes from the main riff of HITE.  I personally appreciate Pink Cellphone except where the nonsense begins. 

DE was a phenomenal, hopeful, and unlikely return for the band.  Royal is truly their Phoenix rising.  I enjoy other tracks but do not appreciate in the same way as their previous works.  Maybe they lack a bit of depth or originality?  Some stuff sounds like an update of something from the past: Sextape / Digital Bath, Cmd/Ctrl / Rats, Beauty School / Minerva, etc.  There's also this weird thing in the songwriting where the verses are far catchier and memorable than the choruses - 976, Royal, and Cmd/Ctrl come to mind.  Also screaming "Guns! Razors! Knives!" never did much for me and just came off a little silly.

KNY sounds like it was recorded back-to-back with Diamond Eyes.  I struggle to enjoy much on this record.  Tempest and Rosemary are fine Deftones songs.  Leathers has one of the best pre/choruses ever written by the band, but the guitar work does not sound like Stef - it sounds like they hired some younger guy to write that riff, but it certainly kicks ass.  I still can't believe they titled a song "Romantic Dreams."

Gore is a bit forgettable overall.  Many complain about the mix/production, but to me it's the underlying songs and performances that are just middling.  I will say, though, Geo has a brilliant chorus.  Acid is trying hard to be interesting.  Hearts/Wires and Phantom Bride are also somewhat very strong songs. 

Honestly not feeling this new song at all.  It does nothing for me.  It sounds very safe.  And I'm really hoping the rest of the album fares better.

As far as pre-WP, I still cannot get over the riff and lyrics in BQAD.  Mascara is another one that showed Deftones were in a league of their own.  And on Adrenaline, Root is my jam <3

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, your expectations seem way too high and sound super picky. After 25+ years a band is bound to have songs that reminds of previous ones.

Gaz

I have SNW on now, in HD audio, not listened to the album in full for a longtime, it's sooo fucking good

Big Boss

I've got a feeling this album won't leak. It may leak a day before like the single but that's about it. Even if it did, with the announcement so close to the release date would a leak even interest anyone? I kind of like the short turnaround

Gaz

Quote from: Big Boss on Aug 25, 2020, 06:19 PM
I've got a feeling this album won't leak. It may leak a day before like the single but that's about it. Even if it did, with the announcement so close to the release date would a leak even interest anyone? I kind of like the short turnaround

The gold vinyl I have pre-ordered says it's due to ship to me on the day of release, which I thought was odd

Vesanic

#727
Quote from: Big Boss on Aug 25, 2020, 06:19 PM
Even if it did, with the announcement so close to the release date would a leak even interest anyone?

Maybe not a lot of people (that's debatable), I think it would though. Lots of people out there like to have that one pre-release leak, there's some kind of sentimental value to it, like a special edition.

I think there were lots of lessons to learn. Deftones have a long history of having their stuff leaked, and so much has leaked since the internet became a thing. Tool got their album leaked a couple of days prior to the release, same for Glassjaw. I would be surprised if Ohms didn't leak before a "Friday leak" from NZ. But it does seem like they got their stuff on check this time around, I'm keeping positive.

Matthewtheloser

In response to mandalay, I just wanted to second Geometric Headdress having a fantastic chorus. The rest of the song isn't as fantastic by comparison, though I still like it. But that chorus always felt like signature Deftones to me. I specifically like when they extend it by a few measures at the end and Chino sings "Now relate like I relate". The high intensity way they close out the song is pretty great too.

Matthewtheloser

Quote from: Vesanic on Aug 25, 2020, 06:37 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on Aug 25, 2020, 06:19 PM
Even if it did, with the announcement so close to the release date would a leak even interest anyone?

Maybe not a lot of people (that's debatable), I think it would though. Lots of people out there like to have that one pre-release leak, there's some kind of sentimental value to it, like a special edition.

I think there were lots of lessons to learn. Deftones have a long history of having their stuff leaked, and so much has leaked since the internet became a thing. Tool got their album leaked a couple of days prior to the release, same for Glassjaw. I would be surprised if Ohms didn't leak before a "Friday leak" from NZ. But it does seem like they got their stuff on check this time around, I'm keeping positive.
To be honest, if the album leaked even a few days before release I'd probably still listen to it haha. I know that probably bothers a lot of the anti-leak crowd, but whatever.

Speaking of Glassjaw, if I remember correctly, weren't you doing some archiving of Glassjaw shows at some point Ves?

Vesanic

#730
I did. It's called Glassjaw.info, it's only on YouTube. It was in reference to the follow-up forum to Glassjaw.net, but that new forum ended up being spammed to death by ad bots.

I had a different approach where I archived every single video on YouTube in a chronology, not just my uploads like I do for Deftones. The reason is Glassjaw has a lot less material on YouTube.

I didn't follow up after 2017 however. I've uploaded a couple of shows myself here and there, and I recorded them a couple of times. I'll probably get back to it at some point but Glassjaw is a different thing. The Pukkelpop proshot makes up for it, such a brilliant recording.

buflen

Quote from: Matthewtheloser on Aug 25, 2020, 06:54 PM
In response to mandalay, I just wanted to second Geometric Headdress having a fantastic chorus. The rest of the song isn't as fantastic by comparison, though I still like it. But that chorus always felt like signature Deftones to me. I specifically like when they extend it by a few measures at the end and Chino sings "Now relate like I relate". The high intensity way they close out the song is pretty great too.
It's definitely the best and most "deftones sounding" part of the album. But the song is kind of all over the place beside that imo.

Matthewtheloser

Quote from: Vesanic on Aug 25, 2020, 07:00 PM
I did. It's called Glassjaw.info, it's only on YouTube. It was in reference to the follow-up forum to Glassjaw.net, but that new forum ended up being spammed to death by ad bots.

I had a different approach where I archived every single video on YouTube in a chronology, not just my uploads like I do for Deftones. The reason is Glassjaw has a lot less material on YouTube.

I didn't follow up after 2017 however. I've uploaded a couple of shows myself here and there, and I recorded them a couple of times. I'll probably get back to it at some point but Glassjaw is a different thing. The Pukkelpop proshot makes up for it, such a brilliant recording.
Thanks for letting me know, I'll definitely be sure to subscribe in case you ever decide to upload some more. But yeah, that Pukkelpop show is great, definitely one of the best ones they've done in this whole Material Control era. Did you by chance have any GJ shows from the tour where they were supporting Deftones?

Draken

IDK if it means anything or if this has been pointed out yet but Chuck Doom's IG posts all have Urantia as the location. Someone please fill me in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4G0oShnxrI

Vesanic

Quote from: Matthewtheloser on Aug 25, 2020, 07:17 PM
Quote from: Vesanic on Aug 25, 2020, 07:00 PM
I did. It's called Glassjaw.info, it's only on YouTube. It was in reference to the follow-up forum to Glassjaw.net, but that new forum ended up being spammed to death by ad bots.

I had a different approach where I archived every single video on YouTube in a chronology, not just my uploads like I do for Deftones. The reason is Glassjaw has a lot less material on YouTube.

I didn't follow up after 2017 however. I've uploaded a couple of shows myself here and there, and I recorded them a couple of times. I'll probably get back to it at some point but Glassjaw is a different thing. The Pukkelpop proshot makes up for it, such a brilliant recording.
Thanks for letting me know, I'll definitely be sure to subscribe in case you ever decide to upload some more. But yeah, that Pukkelpop show is great, definitely one of the best ones they've done in this whole Material Control era. Did you by chance have any GJ shows from the tour where they were supporting Deftones?


From the 2000 one, only a couple in audio. From the 2006, I uploaded an audio one, from Detroit, and added the YouTube clips to it. I wish I had more, that tour is my favorite, Daryl was a vocal beast!

Matthewtheloser

#735
Quote from: Draken on Aug 25, 2020, 07:25 PM
IDK if it means anything or if this has been pointed out yet but Chuck Doom's IG posts all have Urantia as the location. Someone please fill me in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4G0oShnxrI
It's been going on for weeks now, since way before that track title was officially announced. It started happening only a day or so after someone plugged the leaked track into that AHA song identifier thing and was given Urantia as the title. So it was either just a way of teasing the rabid fans as a "we know that you know" sort of a thing, or Chuck just liked the title and thought nobody would really think twice about it. Idk, either way I don't think there's much to look into there.

Draken

Perhaps. Could be the next single? Maybe he's just saying Earth in another way...

mandalay

Quote from: Matthewtheloser on Aug 25, 2020, 06:54 PM
In response to mandalay, I just wanted to second Geometric Headdress having a fantastic chorus. The rest of the song isn't as fantastic by comparison, though I still like it. But that chorus always felt like signature Deftones to me. I specifically like when they extend it by a few measures at the end and Chino sings "Now relate like I relate". The high intensity way they close out the song is pretty great too.
I'm a sucker for an extended chorus, or a first chorus that never real takes off and then explodes/expands the second time!  Deftones have truly mastered this in many of their songs.

Matthewtheloser

Maybe! Honestly, I thought it was going to be the first single, but they threw me a curveball with Ohms. Urantia is the only leak I've heard, and I can definitely say it would make for a good single. It's just got that classic Deftones feel to it, at least to my ears.

Matthewtheloser

Quote from: mandalay on Aug 25, 2020, 08:06 PM
Quote from: Matthewtheloser on Aug 25, 2020, 06:54 PM
In response to mandalay, I just wanted to second Geometric Headdress having a fantastic chorus. The rest of the song isn't as fantastic by comparison, though I still like it. But that chorus always felt like signature Deftones to me. I specifically like when they extend it by a few measures at the end and Chino sings "Now relate like I relate". The high intensity way they close out the song is pretty great too.
I'm a sucker for an extended chorus, or a first chorus that never real takes off and then explodes/expands the second time!  Deftones have truly mastered this in many of their songs.
Totally, I completely agree. Rosemary is perhaps my favorite example, with the whole "we play in dreams" extended chorus. I also love it in Battle-Axe with the "Well I'd love to think you will someday feel the same" part