Gore

[B_S_79]

Writing a song that is intellectually stimulating takes time and effort. Sometimes this band clearly doesn't put a lot of time or effort into the writing of a song. They often obviously just go with the first idea they get (or rehash/reuse an idea or sound) and or get to the bridge section of a song and go "Hey Steph write a two chord heavy riff!" and call it a day. That's what I mean by lazy. As you've said, I've already gone into why S/T was lazy numerous times over the years. I love all of the musical genres they draw from; space-rock, prog, goth, shoegaze, etc. and adore their use of atmosphere. But sometimes, they get dragged down by their laziness. You can make heavy use of these styles and tones and still come up with something intellectually stimulating.

This is my favorite band, but I have no problem pointing out where they fall flat, and unfortunately, it's usually because of laziness. The guys in this band are the epitome of those kids that teachers and parents furrow their brows over and say "But they have so much potential, if only they weren't so lazy!".

I agree with a lot of what you said. Song structure has been a bit weak. No bridges. Some songs sound cut and pasted, literally. Yes, the Gore riff is something my band actually wrote in high school.  I wish the vibe of the first verse of (l)mirl continued throughout the song. It's haunting. GH is my favorite song, and the mix is not good.

Judging by the recent setlists of their show, the band probably agrees with you too.

[Bifrost]

Writing a song that is intellectually stimulating takes time and effort. Sometimes this band clearly doesn't put a lot of time or effort into the writing of a song. They often obviously just go with the first idea they get (or rehash/reuse an idea or sound) and or get to the bridge section of a song and go "Hey Steph write a two chord heavy riff!" and call it a day. That's what I mean by lazy. As you've said, I've already gone into why S/T was lazy numerous times over the years. I love all of the musical genres they draw from; space-rock, prog, goth, shoegaze, etc. and adore their use of atmosphere. But sometimes, they get dragged down by their laziness. You can make heavy use of these styles and tones and still come up with something intellectually stimulating.

This is my favorite band, but I have no problem pointing out where they fall flat, and unfortunately, it's usually because of laziness. The guys in this band are the epitome of those kids that teachers and parents furrow their brows over and say "But they have so much potential, if only they weren't so lazy!".

I agree with your assessment.

And they have been open about it in the past as well, they have described themselves as being lazy in interviews. I am sure that smoking and drinking plays a role in this as well. They basically hang out together, jam and see what comes out. Now that has produced a lot of great music but also some misses along the way and lately the hit to miss ratio has been getting a little lop side with the misses with this album being the epitome.

You hear a lot of unfinished ideas, or songs with potential that never quite reach greatness and instead end in an uninspired way. (I think of H/W, the song starts off interesting but just builds to meh).

I know they would probably think otherwise but maybe they need a producer at this stage to freshen things up and push them a little bit. I don't think it will happen because it seems like Chino doesn't want anyone criticizing his style or work ethic but I think the other members would probably be open to it.

[Bifrost]

It would be nice if they wrote a proper bridge for these songs on Gore... this always disappoints me when a band has a decent chorus and verse but can't put that third wave in there to let the song hit it's stride. The songs on KNY had the same issue.

[rainnyx4]

It would be nice if they wrote a proper bridge for these songs on Gore... this always disappoints me when a band has a decent chorus and verse but can't put that third wave in there to let the song hit it's stride. The songs on KNY had the same issue.

What? KNY had bridges and "third waves" galore. That's one of the reasons it was so great. There were a few songs that could've been fleshed out a little more, but of all of the albums to shit on this band for being lazy, KNY is not one of them.

[Freedomsoldier17]

there are plenty of creative and left turn bridges in gore. P/T, rubicon, PB to name a few. there's one song that literally has no bridge though...xenon

[ZND84]

Other than Teenager and Pink Cellphone, there is no other Deftones song I dislike more than Xenon. There is nothing they could of done to that song to redeem it for me. I like their depressing songs, upbeat, aggressive or whatever, but Xenon holy shit, that one makes me cringe.

[nicklav]

Teenager is great. The other two are nowhere near the same caliber of song.

[Cullision]

Teenager is great, Pink Cellphone is just an interlude, and Xenon is the worst Deftones song ever made.

[Shadow46/2]

It's average at worst. Man, so much hyperbole in here

[nineteen]

I don't get the dislikes for Xenon. A proper 'driving into the sunset' kinda song for me.

[sooniletugo]

Yeah, not my favourite but a chill song. Don't get the dislike for it.

[Freedomsoldier17]

the chorus is extremely bland in my opinion. and like said, essentially no bridge

[sing blue silver]

Abe is brilliant on Xenon but he's brilliant across the whole album. I don't quite understand the hate for it. I don't think it's their greatest work by any stretch but it's a serviceable song even if it's a bit bland in spots. If we're talking worst Deftones songs I'd place Swerve City and Diamond Eyes well before Xenon.

[B0RNtoR0CK]

Abe is brilliant on Xenon but he's brilliant across the whole album. I don't quite understand the hate for it. I don't think it's their greatest work by any stretch but it's a serviceable song even if it's a bit bland in spots. If we're talking worst Deftones songs I'd place Swerve City and Diamond Eyes well before Xenon.

I agree with you on Swerve City, but Diamond Eyes? Thats a solid track.

[rainnyx4]

Swerve City > Diamond Eyes > Xenon

Xenon probably has the best chorus out of all of them though. That little mini solo during Swerve City is glorious.

[sooniletugo]

Huge fan of Diamond Eyes. Crushing, colossal sound to it with an epic chorus. Swerve City, not the greatest but a really fun bouncy track that sticks in your head. Caught me by surprise when I first listened to KNY and I found myself totally addicted to it. Initially it reminded me of a much punchier Mein.

[Freedomsoldier17]

Huge fan of Diamond Eyes. Crushing, colossal sound to it with an epic chorus. Swerve City, not the greatest but a really fun bouncy track that sticks in your head. Caught me by surprise when I first listened to KNY and I found myself totally addicted to it. Initially it reminded me of a much punchier Mein.

swerve city is a great track...i was super into it on first listen. it's full of energy and yes, bounciness, great way to describe it.

Back to Gore songs though...I just love the first verse of (L)MIRL. It's so enchanting and entrancing

[Gore]

I don't get why some of you are hating on Gore and Xenon, to me they're too of the better tracks on the album. GH could have been a great track but I agree with Rainnyx4 in that the production makes it very difficult to listen to, especially the screaming bits.
Then the same people who are calling these songs lazy go on to praise songs like (L)mirl, the fucking laziest song I've heard in a long time, not just by my favourite band but by any band.
I don't get how some of you can't see how crap this song is. I know Mein gets a lot of flack on this board but just listen to (L)mirl and then Mein back to back and tell me that (L)mirl isn't an infinitely worse song.
I mean just listen to the verses, even the lyrics are lazy and crap.
I don't miss you (sung exactly over the guitar chords, no effort by Chino to create an interesting melody weaving through the guitar melody)
I don't care where you are now (sung exactly the same as the line before)
You're a ghost to me (sung exactly the same as the line before)
Left with my taste in your mouth (sung exactly the same as the line before)
Literally the whole verse is the same fucking line sung over and over, just insert different lyrics.
Then the chorus:
I sail on these waves, hey(same deal as the verse just a country twanged "hey" thrown in for good measure cos we all love some country in our Deftones)
Slip into the coming waves, hey (sung exactly the same as the line before complete with "hey", just in case you haven't had enough of Chino singing about waves)

Don't even get me started on Hearts/Wires and Phantom Bride.
Even P/T uses the same formula as the above songs to a certain extent. I don't actually know anyone apart from maybe some on this board that thinks this is a great song or even a good song.
Definitely not single material. The first time I heard it the first thought that went through my head was "oh no Deftones have let their usually high, unfaltering quality control slip.
The chorus is the worst part, it uses the same trick as the other 3 in repeating the melody from the line before:
"Prayers (Prayers sung again, this time in Sergio's fucking awful voice)"
"Triangles (Triangles)"
"You'll never be saved (You'll never be saved, you'll never be saved etc.)
Wow that's good song writing?
I really wish Sergio would never sing again by the way, not in the studio or live.

Sorry Rainnyx4 I just can't agree with you on S/T, that album is just fucking genius.
So many great tracks on S/T: Hexagram, Needles and Pins, Minerva, Bloody Cape etc. and you choose Anniversary! What!!!
How are those songs lazy?
Hexagram and Bloody Cape for eg. just have such weird melodies and song structures.
Oh well everyone has their own tastes I suppose but Gore is the album that should be described as lazy. I agree with you that it's their worst and by a huge margin too.
The big disappointment is that it could have been so much better.
What does it say about the effort the band put into this album when it's released with such a shitty mix?
What does it say about the songs when your own guitarist doesn't want to play on them?
Friends I've managed to turn on to Deftones through their previous albums have told me how shit this album is.
I think that's a bit harsh, it's still a decent album but I have to say that's something I've never said about a Deftones album before - "it's a decent album"
Usually it's a great album! Usually the new album will play for months on end until I'll even put anything else on, this time I was bored of it after a few listens.

Please Deftones do not ever make use of Matt Hyde again, in any capacity and please let those lazy songs like (L)mirl, Hearts/Wires and PB serve their purpose as b-sides.
I really wish Chino would take a little break from live shows before recording the next album, just to get his voice in shape and to collect some ideas again.
As it is it sounds like he's burned out on shows and side projects and the lyrics to Hearts/wires seem to confirm this -
"Nothing to sing about
I've bared all my leaves"
Maybe Chino could sing about waves.

[E-Money]

The production just sucks on gore. These songs would have been so much better with Terry producing and Someone else mixing. Especially on GH. The mixing is so poor on that song which is a shame. Still love a lot of the music on this record. Lmirl and Rubicon are 2 of my favorite songs they have ever made. Hope they do one more record with Terry one day.

[Gore]

Couldn't agree with you more about Terry.
I can't understand how Abe could be happy with the way Gore turned out. His drumming is brilliant as usual but you can hardly hear him in the mix.
It wasn't great on Nick's two albums either but compared to Gore it's fantastic.
I obviously prefer Terry to Nick but Nick wasn't too bad either.
I quite like the production on Diamond Eyes, even though a lot of people say it sounds over-produced and poppy I find it quite a dark sounding record. I think Frank brings a lot to that record.
I don't know why they don't use Chris Lord-Alge to do the mixing again.
Does anyone else notice quite a big difference in the mix going from Diamond Eyes (the song) to Royal?
Diamond Eyes was mixed by Chris and Royal and the rest of the tracks by Nick.
Maybe Chris just charges too much which is why they only used him for the first single off the record.
He's definitely worth it though.