"Ohms" - Deftones New Album

[Inkblades]

Stephen's work on the last four albums is a bit of a mixed bag for me, varying from song to song. For every boring, uninspired riff like the ones on Beauty School, the Diamond Eyes title track or What Happened to You?, there's really unique playing like his work on Royal and Acid Hologram. Sometimes the simplicity of his riffs works to beautiful effect (Genesis), other times it leaves something to be desired (Swerve City).

[LG95]

I don't understand not liking the Diamond Eyes and Swerve City riffs. Two of the biggest riffs Stef's ever written.

Both far better than Genesis.

[Inkblades]

Dislike is a strong word - those songs have other elements that make them listenable for me (Swerve's bridge is really solid), but I just don't think either feature his best work. The Genesis riff has more groove and a certain swing to it, while the Diamond Eyes and Swerve riffs are a bit leaden to me (the DE riff in particular). Just one man's opinion.

[Penicks]

I don't understand not liking the Diamond Eyes and Swerve City riffs. Two of the biggest riffs Stef's ever written.

Both far better than Genesis.

they're boring

[E-Money]

The Swerve City riff is by far my least favorite riff he's ever created ... so boring . Same with you've seen the butcher ... both do absolutely nothing for me.

Wanting Stephen to branch out more.. I thought what he did on Smile was really cool. In my opinion he's writing has really gone downhill since he moved to the 8 and 9 string.. his heaviest and best material came on the 6 and 7's for sure... but that's just my opinion..

Nothing compares to BQAD, Lotion, Korea, Change, Hex, WGTB, KimDrac

Someone said a few days ago that they just seem safe now and I totally agree. Way less mysterious than they used to be. More predictable now and I hate that. And I feel the same about their live shows. We don't get many special moments anymore. And very little jams or passages inbetween songs anymore. It's like the atmosphere just isn't there. I remember Frank doing the coolest stuff inbetween songs back in the day. I really miss that.

[rainnyx4]

Got no problem with simplistic riffs, as long as it sounds fresh, and there are other aspects of the song that keep it interesting. One of my biggest gripes with this band is when they rip themselves off.  We certainly don't need anymore 0-2-3 type riffs or fake bridges that just amount to playing one of the main guitar riffs without the rest of the band (Moana, etc.) or a completely predictable drone (Rocket Skates). I have no problem with the simplistic riffs on stuff like Swerve City or (to a lesser extent) Diamond Eyes. The thing that makes Swerve City for me is the little solo they threw in there. Again, simplistic, but it was super fresh and catchy. Also, the song doesn't overstay its welcome. Compare that with Hexagram that just drones on and on with the verse riff. If it had been a short number like Swerve City or they had done a proper bridge or something, I'd be ecstatic about that song. Great riffs in that song, but it just gets tired.

I hear a lot of the same problems with the latest album. So many great ideas, but they just don't quite nail the execution. I'm fine with the simple Genesis verse riff. But the chorus sounds very derivative of Poltergeist. And damn it, the bridge. That moment when Steph changes up the riff for like 10 seconds, I was so pumped. And then back to the chorus riff? So boring. That easily could've been something that totally took off (a solo or a proper bridge?) but they just took the easy way out. Same thing when they get to the next to last riff on Ohms. I was like "Hell yeah!" Sounds so much like Hum and I thought they were going to do something similar where they build that riff and throw in a bunch of variations to throw your brain off. But nope, just back to the intro riff and then it ends. These guys are the ultimate slackers that waste their potential.

[Inkblades]

The problem you have with Genesis is the same problem I have with Swerve. Verses and bridge are great, but then right back to that "dun dun dun dadadun" riff in the chorus and outro. Genesis feels a lot more expansive to me. The outro, for instance, has the main riff but with that extra soloing over it to give it variance.

Also, the Genesis chorus sounds like the Poltergeist chorus? Don't hear that at all. I hear a slight similarity in sound to Leathers (my favorite song off Koi), and Genesis is my favorite from Ohms, so there's probably something there. Honestly, I can try to quantify why something works or doesn't work for me, but a lot of it is just about a particular sound of Deftones that I'm biased to and which songs I'm getting a visceral reaction from.

And since we're talking about Stef riffs, just want to give a little love to his unloved Prayers/Triangles riffs. The soft, melodic one in the verses is straight up beautiful to me.

[nicklav]

The Swerve City riff is by far my least favorite riff he's ever created ... so boring . Same with you've seen the butcher ... both do absolutely nothing for me.

Wanting Stephen to branch out more.. I thought what he did on Smile was really cool. In my opinion he's writing has really gone downhill since he moved to the 8 and 9 string.. his heaviest and best material came on the 6 and 7's for sure... but that's just my opinion..

Nothing compares to BQAD, Lotion, Korea, Change, Hex, WGTB, KimDrac

Someone said a few days ago that they just seem safe now and I totally agree. Way less mysterious than they used to be. More predictable now and I hate that. And I feel the same about their live shows. We don't get many special moments anymore. And very little jams or passages inbetween songs anymore. It's like the atmosphere just isn't there. I remember Frank doing the coolest stuff inbetween songs back in the day. I really miss that.

My thoughts exactly. The 8-string was the downfall.   

[E-Money]

I feel like Genesis could have gone somewhere really incredible... the bridge is some of the best music they have created and I absolutely hate how it just goes back into the chorus. Could have been a really special song . I feel like right when we're about to go somewhere incredible they just don't quite get there anymore. I've really felt that way since Chi passed. I still love this band with all my heart and I hope Ohms isn't the last time I get to hear new Deftones.

[mono]

The Swerve City riff is by far my least favorite riff he's ever created ... so boring . Same with you've seen the butcher ... both do absolutely nothing for me.

Wanting Stephen to branch out more.. I thought what he did on Smile was really cool. In my opinion he's writing has really gone downhill since he moved to the 8 and 9 string.. his heaviest and best material came on the 6 and 7's for sure... but that's just my opinion..

Nothing compares to BQAD, Lotion, Korea, Change, Hex, WGTB, KimDrac

Someone said a few days ago that they just seem safe now and I totally agree. Way less mysterious than they used to be. More predictable now and I hate that. And I feel the same about their live shows. We don't get many special moments anymore. And very little jams or passages inbetween songs anymore. It's like the atmosphere just isn't there. I remember Frank doing the coolest stuff inbetween songs back in the day. I really miss that.

Exactly!!!

[Visionz]

The "magic" definitely isn't all the way there anymore. Its all i can say to sum up what i really feel anymore without writing way to much down here and losing focus/my point. I do think it is Chi's absence and Deftones' age as a band. Imagine being 50 with all the expectation and drumming up new ideas especially as a fragmented band (we all are with Covid 19)..... and to antcipate they will bring it next time (fragmented especially) is a scary thought now for me. Wish they had it in them to hit each other in the forehead every morning and screen for fevers and hunker down (sounds like the best time ever if ever a time) and cook up something that they really truly, ALL believe in. Ohms is a good record, i respect it..... but can i dream?

[film_maker]

I can completely understand why V is somewhat disillusioned with the band's work following Cheng's death.  It's simply not the same band for many reasons and in many ways.  They are much safer now.  And it's not that Cheng was the source of the band's edge/mystique, or that they wouldn't have progressed this way should that accident not have occurred.  It's impossible to nail down the change to one particular reason, but safe to say it's not the same band in many ways.

That said, I still find their past works - particularly WP, ST, some of SNW, and Eros era material - absolutely enthralling, especially live footage from 1999-2004.  That connection is so deep and, after 20 years of being a fan, will never be dulled.  And it's what keeps me coming back here as well. 

As far as Ohms, I'm frankly surprised so many are in love with album.  I certainly don't need WP, ST, or older material rehashed and duplicated.  But what I've come to expect from the band are interesting, new ideas/riffs, profound lyrics, unique melodies, and unmistakable depth. I didn't find any of those things on this record.  Instead, I found some contrived/lazy riffs, uninspired or cringey lyrics, and a band phoning it in with a producer who are all past their creative peaks. 

It KILLS me to say these things about a band I love so dearly, but if something doesn't click with me personally, then that's my opinion.  Of course, everyone has their own, and no opinion is right/wrong, but some are more shared than others, which can shut out dissenting ones. I will say the riff on "Radiant City" is pretty badass, but after at least 100 listens to Ohms since release, I still can't hear any of the songs in my head when trying to recall them.  For me a forgettable record, but truly happy it resonated with so many others. 

And in no way does my experience with Ohms at all put a dent in my appreciation for the band I grew up on and with many years ago.

The Swerve City riff is by far my least favorite riff he's ever created ... so boring . Same with you've seen the butcher ... both do absolutely nothing for me.

Wanting Stephen to branch out more.. I thought what he did on Smile was really cool. In my opinion he's writing has really gone downhill since he moved to the 8 and 9 string.. his heaviest and best material came on the 6 and 7's for sure... but that's just my opinion..

Nothing compares to BQAD, Lotion, Korea, Change, Hex, WGTB, KimDrac

Someone said a few days ago that they just seem safe now and I totally agree. Way less mysterious than they used to be. More predictable now and I hate that. And I feel the same about their live shows. We don't get many special moments anymore. And very little jams or passages inbetween songs anymore. It's like the atmosphere just isn't there. I remember Frank doing the coolest stuff inbetween songs back in the day. I really miss that.

These are some of the most lucid and spot on analysis I have read of the current state of the band. I think Koi No Yokan hints at some elements from the previous albums until SNW, but still not the same band as it was. OHMS for me so far sounds like a more cohesive version of Gore, which is good but  not ideal ....gotta say the last time the band gave me goosebumps was when I heard Smile....still, Spell of Mathematics its the kind of song I always wanted to hear from them.....its sludgy, but its mixed with a mysterious post punk/gothic vibe from the bands Chino and Sergio listen and wear T-shirts at live shows (like Siouxsie And The Banshees).

EDIT: I'm not a forum heavy user, so I don't know how to take my paragraph out of the first quote 

[Formant]

I just think that Ohms faces the problem of not breaking totally new ground for the band. There are no truly bold steps on this album, to my ears. The synth sounds may be mentioned as one such step, but that seemed to be more of a theme than anything (an allusion to the 80s sound).

I suppose there doesn't need to be any bold steps on an album, but for a band this long in the tooth why NOT? Bold moves are compelling, sonic changes mean growth! For all Gore is, it at least represented a slightly greater attempt at that (even dealing with the same nostalgic vibes in a prototype way).

The album just doesn't have the feeling of progression to me. The songs are there, as solid as most are, but they don't bring coherent direction. Pompeji certainly FEELS like a climax, but the album doesn't seem to earn it-- what is it truly the climax of? Ohms certainly FEELS triumphant, like an epiphany, especially if you listen to it standalone-- but the album doesn't build up to it (as a closing track) the same way White Pony did Pink Maggit, or SNW did Riviere. Headless is my least favorite track, and within the album it also doesn't set the stage for the closer like a penultimate song should (again, think Kimdracula into Riviere and Change into Pink Maggit).

The album comes across to me like it is trying to be cinematic. It wants to have the exposition, the buildup, the climax, and the (in this case triumphant) closer like a movie does. All of this set in some broken, maybe apocalyptical world metaphorical to our own (per the lyrics of Genesis and Ohms). But personally it didn't work for me.  It is certainly a cool idea, but the song power just isn't there to back it up. Perhaps a different song order would help, to better re-contextualize the final track, but again the song power isn't there imo. If it was for you, then hell yeah man! This is certainly not a bad album, and if this album is a daily listen for you then that's killer. It just doesn't achieve (to me) what it appears to set out to.

[Sunbath]

My top-3 Deftones albums in order they're released: S/T, SNW & Ohms. Those three are like number one for me. White Pony obviously then the second.

I think Ohms is super focused. It still feels fresh after few months. Songs offer more structure-wise than ever. I have no problem Steph doing what he does. I will take a band as a cohesive entity over the need of a guitarist showing off their skills in a heartbeat. Anyday. And that's what Deftones sounds now more than ever during Sergio-era. A cohesive entity. Can't wait what they'll come up with the next one!

Only things I wish were different:

- Genesis: Not a fan of the chorus nor the intro. Both feel a little too familiar from the last 10 years.
- Radiant City: The song would've benefitted of the second verse cutted in half or replace the latter half with the new part in the song. To me it feels a bit too repetitive especially with that repetitive riff as it is.

[976-EVIL]

...

That Track has grown on me more than any other on the Album.

[secretbandinsider]

@Formant Headless is your least fave? Dude, that song rules.

[Formant]

@Formant Headless is your least fave? Dude, that song rules.

I respect your love for it, man. It feels like a combo of SNW and KNY, which should be right up my alley!

But I dunno, I'm not into Chino's vocals throughout the track-- they feel thin and strained. And the lyrics come off an odd way. The transitions between verse and chorus, and then amongst the bridge sections (when the intro guitar returns), don't feel smooth-- more so jittery, like momentum keeps being lost. The song just kinda happens, feels like it wants to be momentous but the production doesn't provide that. A whimper rather than a bang.

Like I said, it also doesn't open the door for Ohms in the best way imo. Then again, no one track can do that, it has to be the whole album.

[defsteve]

...

Best song on the album.

[Gaz]

...

Best song on the album.

Great song, great choice

[Inkblades]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3DR_ULv33/

Looks like they have a big Hollywood director for Ceremony. Should be interesting.